don't go to USC

[condoleezarice]

I was considering applying since I have family who attended a long time ago. Thanks for the warning.. the dozen threads about USC by different people are hard to look past.. I can't believe there are still dental schools out there like this.

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[eldirty]

after reading this thread I would assume all out there in SDN land would advise me not to attend the interview i just received from USC ... I have already send my Tufts deposit

 

[Upenn08]

Well, at least the smart students seem to already know about this issue at USC, since fewer and fewer smart students are choosing USC.

Proof:

DAT AA average 2006 entering class of USC : 20
DAT AA average 2007 entering class of USC : 19.2
DAT AA average 2008 entering class of USC : 18.2

And yeah, the GPA average also dropped, but to a lesser extent (3.47 -> 3.40).

source:
http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=502025


With this trend, I won't be surprised to see a 17.XX DAT average this year or any year in the near future.

 

[DrReo]

Well, at least the smart students seem to already know about this issue at USC, since fewer and fewer smart students are choosing USC.

Proof:

DAT AA average 2006 entering class of USC : 20
DAT AA average 2007 entering class of USC : 19.2
DAT AA average 2008 entering class of USC : 18.2

And yeah, the GPA average also dropped, but to a lesser extent (3.47 -> 3.40).

source:
http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=502025


With this trend, I won't be surprised to see a 17.XX DAT average this year or any year in the near future.

"100% of the class has earned a baccalaureate degree; 2 have earned a Master of Arts degree; 15 have earned a Master of Science degree and 2 have earned the MBA degree."

 

[Upenn08]

"100% of the class has earned a baccalaureate degree; 2 have earned a Master of Arts degree; 15 have earned a Master of Science degree and 2 have earned the MBA degree."

Well, we have to know that many people get M.S. to make up for their low GPA. What's surprising it that despite the High GPA boost the Master students have received (Master's program give out much more As), the GPA has declined, and despite the advanced learning they received from grad schools, the AA has declined to 18.2.

 

[Upenn08]

"58 different undergraduate institutions are represented: 29% of the class earned a degree from one of 7 University of California campuses while less than 1% earned a degree from California State University campuses."

http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258


Do they really need to point that out?

 

[sajjy]

This thread must have killed the excitement of those who chose USC over other school.

 

[pbrooks]

Authors:

Fincham AG, Shuler CF.
Center for Craniofacial Molecular Biology, School of Dentistry, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90033, USA. [email protected]

*Note: They work at USC, would that be considered bias?

With respect to this article - I know Dr. Schuler, he is a very nice and ethical man. He left USC awhile ago (take from that what you will).

I just wanted to ensure that Dr Schuler was not given a bad rap for this article, he truly believes in PBL, but USC has a great number of other problems (as people have complained about above).

 

[xhamburgersamx]

"58 different undergraduate institutions are represented: 29% of the class earned a degree from one of 7 University of California campuses while less than 1% earned a degree from California State University campuses."

http://dentistry.usc.edu/doctoral.aspx?id=910&linkidentifier=id&itemid=910&menu_id=258


Do they really need to point that out?

In california, people know that the UC system is far superior than the CSU system so USC would like to point that out to make them look better. I don't see anything wrong that with besides stating the truth. They could also say we have 1 student from harvard, but I doubt they do

 

[Upenn08]

In california, people know that the UC system is far superior than the CSU system so USC would like to point that out to make them look better. I don't see anything wrong that with besides stating the truth. They could also say we have 1 student from harvard, but I doubt they do

That is exactly why they are not merely "stating the truth."
Putting CSU down to make them look better is unprofessional (if that was indeed their intention).
What about that one CSU student who has chosen USC? I am sure he/she would feel welcomed.

 

[JessD]

hey thanks for the encouragement..."IF" ITS ONLY ONE YEAR to go, hoping to graduate on time..

ya a bunch of people from the class of 09 were discussing transferring to other schools before starting clinic...but I think its way too hard.

you know whats sad...seeing people that were supposed to graduate in 08 and 07 still in clinic up until recently

Paying 100K each year and not knowing to graduate on-time is very hard to imagine! 08 and 07 folks should have been practicing dentistry by now instead of being up in the clinic!

 

[xhamburgersamx]

That is exactly why they are not merely "stating the truth."
Putting CSU down to make them look better is unprofessional (if that was indeed their intention).
What about that one CSU student who has chosen USC? I am sure he/she would feel welcomed.

Is it better to say they have 1 student from CSU? It is what it is, it doesn't matter how you state it - it's going to look bad regardless. I guess their only option is to admit more CSU students or not mention anything on their website at all. They are a private school and they can do whatever they want lol

 

[Upenn08]

Is it better to say they have 1 student from CSU? It is what it is, it doesn't matter how you state it - it's going to look bad regardless. I guess their only option is to admit more CSU students or not mention anything on their website at all. They are a private school and they can do whatever they want lol

you said:
"In california, people know that the UC system is far superior than the CSU system so USC would like to point that out to make them look better. I don't see anything wrong that with besides stating the truth."

What I am saying is that doing so is not professional, and it is a very bad way to convey a school's superiority.

 

[midwestbrian]

I think gang-mentality is starting to kick in here

 

[seaweed719]

you said:
"In california, people know that the UC system is far superior than the CSU system so USC would like to point that out to make them look better. I don't see anything wrong that with besides stating the truth."

What I am saying is that doing so is not professional, and it is a very bad way to convey a school's superiority.

I agree with Upenn08 that it would make USC look very unprofessional.

First of all, what would CSU applicants feel when they see this kind of information posted officially on USCSD's website? I am sure there are many CSU students who are as intelligent and hardworking as UC students, but let's be honest, obviously the website implies CSU schools are not as good as UC schools, so USC admits fewer CSU students. Why would a school want to foster this kind of elitism by implicitly downgrading others?

Second, I think it's very superficial on the school's part to even think about using their students' undergraduate institutions as a marketing tool. If USC's clinic problem persists, I know many students will not hesitate to decline its offer even if 99% of USC students come from Harvard and Stanford.

 

[peterngu]

I shadowed a dentist for about half a year that graduated from USC. He is an excellent dentist, his patients love him for good reason, and his hand-skills inspired me to decide to be a GP and to learn to do more treatments after dental school.

That being said, I never talked to him about USC until after I got interview offers. I told him that I got an interview at USC, and he said things like "when I went there (he graduated in 2000) it was a mess. People were stealing teeth from each other, and you don't really know your classmates until you have to start finding patients and fight over them. The clinicians that came out used to be better than UCLA and Loma Linda, but now dentists in Southern California would rather hire out of UCLA and Loma Linda because USC's clinic is teaching badly." I told him that it would be $100k a year after living expenses, and he said something along the lines of "Forget it then! Go somewhere else!" Needless to say, he hated his time there too.

He also paid about $50k after living expenses when he was in school, so I can't see why it costs so much to attend USC.

 

[yayforcoffee]

All I can say is that Will Gary and Brian Steele are by far the most unprofessional representatives of any school I've visited. Their interview day was horrendus. Hopefully things improve at the school -- thank you for the information seansk.

 

[boxdesker]

I'm not denying anything that has been said about USC. But I feel this "discussion on" (AKA "destruction of") USC as a dental school is too one-sided. USC does have some strong points:
-Location in Southern California--nice weather, close to attractions, LA
-Networking--there's a LOT of USC grads in the LA area so I'm sure a graduate of the program would have no problem finding a job.
-Independence--USC indirectly teaches you the ability to make it in the real world (i.e. being aggressive, being successful under harsh conditions)

Though having said this, I think USC is (and should continue to be) a last-choice school (due to poor management and tremendously high cost). But,
Assuming: Going to dental school > Not going to dental school.
Assuming: USC is the last choice for dental school.
Under certain, specific, conditions, I think it still makes sense to go to USC.

 

[Danny289]

Why would D3 will say stuff like this?

^good point!

 

[Columbia07]

--I'm not discounting the fact that there are still 08 and 07 students in the clinic (but these people never should have gone to dental school in the first place if it's taking them 5-6 years to get through school). I would guarantee that anyone still in the clinic from these classes is there because of their OWN damn fault--not the schools.

--Seansk, your post seems to be more of a "rant" post then a post with any meaningful value to applicants. 60% of the dental tuition DOES NOT go to the main university (actual figure is in the 15-20% range--which seems completely reasonable to me). The money that does go to the university is in most instances not paying for student athletic wear--I would think the athletic dept. has more money than they know what to do with.

--The fact that you say clinic professors yell at you all day. Wake up and smell the coffee. If you're not competent--I'd yell at you too! Think about it, you are working on a live patient... not some extracted tooth on the 3rd floor.

--Wasn't remote Axium implemented so you can schedule patients from the comfort of your own home?

--If you don't have enough patients, can't you go to emergency? Fulfill your Perio. requirements (people are emailing every day that they need such and such done)? Assist? Hand your cards out to anyone and everyone you come in to contact with? Get restorative requirements done at Mobile Clinic and Ayuda? I'm not sure if you've done any or all of these things that I've suggested, and I'm not sure if any of these things would help your situation, but these are the comments I hear from friends in the 09 class.

--PBL is what you make of it. You can b@tch about facilitators and cases, but in the end it comes down to you, and only you. We all know PBL isn't for everyone.

--I think you're misleading people here by stating we don't have lectures, when in fact we do. Not sure if you forgot about, Amaglam, Composite, Local Anesthesia, Sedation, Dental Anatomy, Occlusion, Posterior Fixed, Anterior Fixed, Perio., Head and Neck Anatomy--ALL OF WHICH LAST AN ENTIRE SEMESTER! Not sure where you were, but I've been to quite a few lectures--in subjects more important than biochem or immunology...

--You complain about Local Anesthesia and how we only have TWO SESSIONS... How many do you need? I had my rotation in Local Anesthesia and it's pretty FREAKING DUMBY PROOF... Find the landmark, needle gauge, length, etc... point and shoot. Not difficult---probably why Dr. Malamed (pretty much the godfather of local anesthesia believes we only need two sessions). If you want more practice go to Moblic Clinic or Ayuda.

--You see... besides the lack of patients and empty chairs, I think you've done a pretty good job of misrepresenting life at USC. While most on here will not believe me because I'm a year behind you, I think you need to step back, cool off and really think about why you went on some rant about most things that just aren't true...

I wish you luck in the clinic. I'm sure it's freaking tough as hell in there and I don't envy you one bit, but on the same note, I think that the frustrations of the clinic are getting to you, which is perfectly fine. Good luck!

 

[appassionata]

after reading Columbia07, i am so confused..now i have mixed feelings about usc
can any student go to the mobile clinic? i mean, do you have to wait for long time for your turn to go to the mobile clinic because there are many students wating to attend the mobile clinic?

 

[sl2obel2ts]

strange, when i interviewed there, the d3 i ate lunch with told me that shes having the best time of her life at usc. she said profs are really nice and there are plenty of patients. was i told a lie? anyway, i didn't even have a choice, still alternate for USC

 

[JessD]

strange, when i interviewed there, the d3 i ate lunch with told me that shes having the best time of her life at usc. she said profs are really nice and there are plenty of patients. was i told a lie? anyway, i didn't even have a choice, still alternate for USC

It is interesting because I met two seniors in elevator on a day of interview and I asked them whether they recommend me to go to USC and they said if you have any other options go to other places and stay away from USC! I think students who came to our launch were selected by Admissions since they have finished requirements on-time! Regardless opinions about USC are always polarized!

 

[gryffindor]

I'm not denying anything that has been said about USC. But I feel this "discussion on" (AKA "destruction of") USC as a dental school is too one-sided. USC does have some strong points:
-Location in Southern California--nice weather, close to attractions, LA
-Networking--there's a LOT of USC grads in the LA area so I'm sure a graduate of the program would have no problem finding a job.
-Independence--USC indirectly teaches you the ability to make it in the real world (i.e. being aggressive, being successful under harsh conditions)

Though having said this, I think USC is (and should continue to be) a last-choice school (due to poor management and tremendously high cost). But,
Assuming: Going to dental school > Not going to dental school.
Assuming: USC is the last choice for dental school.
Under certain, specific, conditions, I think it still makes sense to go to USC.

It is not worth $400K to be taught this. For that much money, I would hope you are receiving an A-plus, world class, clinically cutting edge education in dentistry. When you get out, having those clinically awesome skills and good patient manner are what will help you make it in the real world (in addition to good business sense). I'm not aware of harsh conditions in dentistry and no one wants an aggressive dentist who reminds them of a used car salesman.

 

[boxdesker]

It is not worth $400K to be taught this. For that much money, I would hope you are receiving an A-plus, world class, clinically cutting edge education in dentistry. When you get out, having those clinically awesome skills and good patient manner are what will help you make it in the real world (in addition to good business sense). I'm not aware of harsh conditions in dentistry and no one wants an aggressive dentist who reminds them of a used car salesman.

Agreed.
This situation is essentially the equivalent of being in a crowd of people looking at a pile of fresh dog poop on a house's front lawn. In this case, everyone was screaming "HEY! This dog poop on the lawn is terrible! Everything about it is bad!" But I needed to turn around and say "Hey... this dog poop might be ugly, but it could still serve a purpose. It could serve as fertilizer."

What you just did is take me aside and say, "Dog poop doesn't make very good fertilizer. This dog poop on the lawn sucks."

 

[Zubnaya Feya]

Agreed.
This situation is essentially the equivalent of being in a crowd of people looking at a pile of fresh dog poop on a house's front lawn. In this case, everyone was screaming "HEY! This dog poop on the lawn is terrible! Everything about it is bad!" But I needed to turn around and say "Hey... this dog poop might be ugly, but it could still serve a purpose. It could serve as fertilizer."

What you just did is take me aside and say, "Dog poop doesn't make very good fertilizer. This dog poop on the lawn sucks."

I like how your mind associates things, great response lol

 

[xhamburgersamx]

I'm sure applicants with lower stats and ones that really want to go to USC are loving this thread right now.

 

[JennDDS]

It is not worth $400K to be taught this. For that much money, I would hope you are receiving an A-plus, world class, clinically cutting edge education in dentistry. When you get out, having those clinically awesome skills and good patient manner are what will help you make it in the real world (in addition to good business sense). I'm not aware of harsh conditions in dentistry and no one wants an aggressive dentist who reminds them of a used car salesman.

Well said!

--I'm not discounting the fact that there are still 08 and 07 students in the clinic (but these people never should have gone to dental school in the first place if it's taking them 5-6 years to get through school). I would guarantee that anyone still in the clinic from these classes is there because of their OWN damn fault--not the schools.

--Seansk, your post seems to be more of a "rant" post then a post with any meaningful value to applicants. 60% of the dental tuition DOES NOT go to the main university (actual figure is in the 15-20% range--which seems completely reasonable to me). The money that does go to the university is in most instances not paying for student athletic wear--I would think the athletic dept. has more money than they know what to do with.

--The fact that you say clinic professors yell at you all day. Wake up and smell the coffee. If you're not competent--I'd yell at you too! Think about it, you are working on a live patient... not some extracted tooth on the 3rd floor.

Columbia07, No one has a right to yell at students! We are supposed to go to professional school and not a dog house! Faculty can still correct mistakes by being polite and show how to do the procedures! If that's the culture at USC to yell at students in clinic then I definitely don't want to go there! I recommend you to enter third year before making any post on the forum and defend USC! I myself asked 5-6 students on the day of interview and they all said stay away from USC!

 

[seansk]

--I'm not discounting the fact that there are still 08 and 07 students in the clinic (but these people never should have gone to dental school in the first place if it's taking them 5-6 years to get through school). I would guarantee that anyone still in the clinic from these classes is there because of their OWN damn fault--not the schools.

--Seansk, your post seems to be more of a "rant" post then a post with any meaningful value to applicants. 60% of the dental tuition DOES NOT go to the main university (actual figure is in the 15-20% range--which seems completely reasonable to me). The money that does go to the university is in most instances not paying for student athletic wear--I would think the athletic dept. has more money than they know what to do with.

--The fact that you say clinic professors yell at you all day. Wake up and smell the coffee. If you're not competent--I'd yell at you too! Think about it, you are working on a live patient... not some extracted tooth on the 3rd floor.

--Wasn't remote Axium implemented so you can schedule patients from the comfort of your own home?

--If you don't have enough patients, can't you go to emergency? Fulfill your Perio. requirements (people are emailing every day that they need such and such done)? Assist? Hand your cards out to anyone and everyone you come in to contact with? Get restorative requirements done at Mobile Clinic and Ayuda? I'm not sure if you've done any or all of these things that I've suggested, and I'm not sure if any of these things would help your situation, but these are the comments I hear from friends in the 09 class.

--PBL is what you make of it. You can b@tch about facilitators and cases, but in the end it comes down to you, and only you. We all know PBL isn't for everyone.

--I think you're misleading people here by stating we don't have lectures, when in fact we do. Not sure if you forgot about, Amaglam, Composite, Local Anesthesia, Sedation, Dental Anatomy, Occlusion, Posterior Fixed, Anterior Fixed, Perio., Head and Neck Anatomy--ALL OF WHICH LAST AN ENTIRE SEMESTER! Not sure where you were, but I've been to quite a few lectures--in subjects more important than biochem or immunology...

--You complain about Local Anesthesia and how we only have TWO SESSIONS... How many do you need? I had my rotation in Local Anesthesia and it's pretty FREAKING DUMBY PROOF... Find the landmark, needle gauge, length, etc... point and shoot. Not difficult---probably why Dr. Malamed (pretty much the godfather of local anesthesia believes we only need two sessions). If you want more practice go to Moblic Clinic or Ayuda.

--You see... besides the lack of patients and empty chairs, I think you've done a pretty good job of misrepresenting life at USC. While most on here will not believe me because I'm a year behind you, I think you need to step back, cool off and really think about why you went on some rant about most things that just aren't true...

I wish you luck in the clinic. I'm sure it's freaking tough as hell in there and I don't envy you one bit, but on the same note, I think that the frustrations of the clinic are getting to you, which is perfectly fine. Good luck!

I used to think greatly of USC too. exact same way you do, you can read my old posts. Wait till you get into clinic!!

 

[seansk]

--I'm not discounting the fact that there are still 08 and 07 students in the clinic (but these people never should have gone to dental school in the first place if it's taking them 5-6 years to get through school). I would guarantee that anyone still in the clinic from these classes is there because of their OWN damn fault--not the schools.

--Seansk, your post seems to be more of a "rant" post then a post with any meaningful value to applicants. 60% of the dental tuition DOES NOT go to the main university (actual figure is in the 15-20% range--which seems completely reasonable to me). The money that does go to the university is in most instances not paying for student athletic wear--I would think the athletic dept. has more money than they know what to do with.

--The fact that you say clinic professors yell at you all day. Wake up and smell the coffee. If you're not competent--I'd yell at you too! Think about it, you are working on a live patient... not some extracted tooth on the 3rd floor.

--Wasn't remote Axium implemented so you can schedule patients from the comfort of your own home?

--If you don't have enough patients, can't you go to emergency? Fulfill your Perio. requirements (people are emailing every day that they need such and such done)? Assist? Hand your cards out to anyone and everyone you come in to contact with? Get restorative requirements done at Mobile Clinic and Ayuda? I'm not sure if you've done any or all of these things that I've suggested, and I'm not sure if any of these things would help your situation, but these are the comments I hear from friends in the 09 class.

--PBL is what you make of it. You can b@tch about facilitators and cases, but in the end it comes down to you, and only you. We all know PBL isn't for everyone.

--I think you're misleading people here by stating we don't have lectures, when in fact we do. Not sure if you forgot about, Amaglam, Composite, Local Anesthesia, Sedation, Dental Anatomy, Occlusion, Posterior Fixed, Anterior Fixed, Perio., Head and Neck Anatomy--ALL OF WHICH LAST AN ENTIRE SEMESTER! Not sure where you were, but I've been to quite a few lectures--in subjects more important than biochem or immunology...

--You complain about Local Anesthesia and how we only have TWO SESSIONS... How many do you need? I had my rotation in Local Anesthesia and it's pretty FREAKING DUMBY PROOF... Find the landmark, needle gauge, length, etc... point and shoot. Not difficult---probably why Dr. Malamed (pretty much the godfather of local anesthesia believes we only need two sessions). If you want more practice go to Moblic Clinic or Ayuda.

--You see... besides the lack of patients and empty chairs, I think you've done a pretty good job of misrepresenting life at USC. While most on here will not believe me because I'm a year behind you, I think you need to step back, cool off and really think about why you went on some rant about most things that just aren't true...

I wish you luck in the clinic. I'm sure it's freaking tough as hell in there and I don't envy you one bit, but on the same note, I think that the frustrations of the clinic are getting to you, which is perfectly fine. Good luck!

to address some of the facts,
1. yes those people from 07 and 08 might have been a little lazy, but sometimes its not completely in your hands, you'll understand once you get to clinic. I SWEAR to you I used to say the same things as you..used to call those people freaking lazy!!!
2. Yelling is not a learning environment...you're a student, your not competent until you graduate, THAT'S WHY YOUR THERE. if you were competent you would already be a dentist. and yelling is not just on the clinic floor. It'll start right now in your posterior fixed class, where there is no need to yell, people are still learning, give it a few weeks, you'll see what i mean. when 90 percent of our class failed the first and second exam...that means there's something wrong with the teaching process not the students. I don't know maybe you have the handskill of G-d. And if thats the case, good for you.
3. Local anesthesia is not hard. But I believe it deserves more attention than two sessions, Don't you. I don't know maybe you were born to be good, not everyone is like you. It is the most critical and if I may "most dangerous" part of a dental treatment. "most things that go wrong in a dental office, happen after local anesthesia usually." My opinion is that it needs a little more attention, for the amount of money we pay this school.
4. Remote axium was not the effort of our school, It was the effort of one certain individual doctor who has been working on this thing for the past year. Give credit where it is earned, and it still does not solve the fact that you have to fight for chairs in the morning.

as for no lecture in immunology, biochem, dental mateirals, Pathology, Physiology, ummm...I think it speaks for itself!! Taking meaningless baseline tests and mock board exams does not prepare you in any way for boards as having one of these classes would, I'm sure you had to sit through the baseline exam for two hours. Mock boards is just says you need to know more about this subject, I don't honestly think it teaches you anything. Wait till you have your Posterior fixed project, and the school decides to give you these meaningless mock board exams to waste your time, when you need it the most to pass Poster fixed.

PBL is good, but I believe it should be implemented a little differently, don't you?? I mean how can you have a facilitator that knows nothing about implants facilitate and guide a group in the right direction in an implant case?? but PBL that's not my main concern.

YOU SAY "besides the lack of patients and empty chairs" Isn't that sort of a big problem if your trying to graduate on time??? I don't know if you're rich but I'm not, I'm not paying 100/k a year to have this kind of problem. It's a lot of money!!!!! a lot!!

Yes I admit I am a little pissed off and I do rant, but thats just human nature when I'm paying 100k/year and working on a patient when i realize "oh crap, I forgot slowspeed on this chair has been having problems since the first day of clinic"

you would be mad too, when your patient gets treatment for a crown and after multiple, data collect, treatment planning, and perio appts, you finally get you patient a chair for fixed and the faculty yells at you "WHAT??? WHO TREATMENT PLANNED THIS, THIS SHOULD BE AN EXTRACTION."

 

[Columbia07]

--Listen, I'm not here to argue with you about whether or not we are receiving a good education at USC. I believe I'm making the most of it (I pay full tuition), but I'm also not in the clinic yet.

--I know it's probably extremely frustrating to tx plan a crown and have the faculty tell you no way in hell you're cutting this tooth and make you extract it instead, but don't you think this happens to A LOT of students?

--You prepare for the boards like everyone else, a sh$t load of BRS reading and practically every NBDE Part 1 question you can get your hands on and the Dental Decks. Some immunology course 1.5 years ago is not going to change the fact that I STILL need to study for immunology.

--You can be competent at something while still in school. That's the point. When you take a competency you are showing the school that you are competent in that area of dentistry. Granted you don't have a license yet, but you've fulfilled the school's requirements. However, if you show a lack of competency in an area that you should be competent in (i.e. physical eval, etc) then someone is probably going to rain on your parade. It may not be right, but since no one likes being yelled at, the chances of you making the same mistake again are not so great. I've been yelled at in radiology--hell, I had the prof. throw my x-rays across the room.

--I never said local anesthesia isn't important, in fact, it's probably the most important part of your dental treatment, at least in the eyes of the patient (#1 Quality patients look for in their dentist. Dentist gives painless injections); however, I don't think we need to stick each other 26 different times to feel good about giving a PSA.

--Posterior Fixed is hard at ANY School. I'm sure anyone would agree with this statement. The fact that 90% of your class (and probably mine too) failed or will fail the first two exams is meaningless because grades are meaningless. Would it have made you feel better if 90% passed the first two exams? In the end, the same 20-25 people are still going to remediate. How many people remediated? 20-25 of 144? I would say that's pretty good.

--I'm not in the clinic yet (besides perio.) so I don't fully understand your frustrations; however, I do feel that the system is much improved from a year ago. Dr. Abelson has been working tirelessly to get things moving and students out on time. I have a few friends in the 2009 class that will be finishing up in the next 2-3 weeks--that's about 3 months ahead of schedule.

--You also say that the school doesn't prepare us well for the boards. Well, I know multiple people in your class that have board scores between 90-97. Maybe they paid the testing center beforehand to get the questions...

--Look, we both attend the same school and we obviously have different opinions about how things are run. We have four possible candidates for Dean coming in, we've already paid the architecture firm for the clinic renovation (which will remove the designated Prosth, Perio, Endo, etc sections and create "group practices" instead) and we should see a Class of 2009 achieve a fairly reasonable grad rate. I think these are all things to look forward to in the future. Sure, we can move backwards and rant about a sh$tty professor that made you look like an a$s in front of your patient, or the fact that PBL is lame or whatever. I think the important thing is to focus on the future. Think about it, your class (2010) will probably all graduate on time. Our class (2011) will be the first class to have 100% Soph. Perio Completion by April 15th. These are all things to look forward to.

--Keep your head up. You still have a ways to go. I guarantee that in 20 years you will tell yourself that it was all worth it. Good Luck.

 

[seansk]

--Listen, I'm not here to argue with you about whether or not we are receiving a good education at USC. I believe I'm making the most of it (I pay full tuition), but I'm also not in the clinic yet.

--I know it's probably extremely frustrating to tx plan a crown and have the faculty tell you no way in hell you're cutting this tooth and make you extract it instead, but don't you think this happens to A LOT of students?

--You prepare for the boards like everyone else, a sh$t load of BRS reading and practically every NBDE Part 1 question you can get your hands on and the Dental Decks. Some immunology course 1.5 years ago is not going to change the fact that I STILL need to study for immunology.

--You can be competent at something while still in school. That's the point. When you take a competency you are showing the school that you are competent in that area of dentistry. Granted you don't have a license yet, but you've fulfilled the school's requirements. However, if you show a lack of competency in an area that you should be competent in (i.e. physical eval, etc) then someone is probably going to rain on your parade. It may not be right, but since no one likes being yelled at, the chances of you making the same mistake again are not so great. I've been yelled at in radiology--hell, I had the prof. throw my x-rays across the room.

--I never said local anesthesia isn't important, in fact, it's probably the most important part of your dental treatment, at least in the eyes of the patient (#1 Quality patients look for in their dentist. Dentist gives painless injections); however, I don't think we need to stick each other 26 different times to feel good about giving a PSA.

--Posterior Fixed is hard at ANY School. I'm sure anyone would agree with this statement. The fact that 90% of your class (and probably mine too) failed or will fail the first two exams is meaningless because grades are meaningless. Would it have made you feel better if 90% passed the first two exams? In the end, the same 20-25 people are still going to remediate. How many people remediated? 20-25 of 144? I would say that's pretty good.

--I'm not in the clinic yet (besides perio.) so I don't fully understand your frustrations; however, I do feel that the system is much improved from a year ago. Dr. Abelson has been working tirelessly to get things moving and students out on time. I have a few friends in the 2009 class that will be finishing up in the next 2-3 weeks--that's about 3 months ahead of schedule.

--You also say that the school doesn't prepare us well for the boards. Well, I know multiple people in your class that have board scores between 90-97. Maybe they paid the testing center beforehand to get the questions...

--Look, we both attend the same school and we obviously have different opinions about how things are run. We have four possible candidates for Dean coming in, we've already paid the architecture firm for the clinic renovation (which will remove the designated Prosth, Perio, Endo, etc sections and create "group practices" instead) and we should see a Class of 2009 achieve a fairly reasonable grad rate. I think these are all things to look forward to in the future. Sure, we can move backwards and rant about a sh$tty professor that made you look like an a$s in front of your patient, or the fact that PBL is lame or whatever. I think the important thing is to focus on the future. Think about it, your class (2010) will probably all graduate on time. Our class (2011) will be the first class to have 100% Soph. Perio Completion by April 15th. These are all things to look forward to.

--Keep your head up. You still have a ways to go. I guarantee that in 20 years you will tell yourself that it was all worth it. Good Luck.

one thing I like to say, If you think throwing your x-rays across the room on the floor is what is called being a professional school, you entire Ideology about learning is completely different than mine!!!!!

This is an old quote from when I was in your place, I wrote this to another to another upperclassman.

"""sounds like an upperclassman is bitter again, how typical! don't worry Mr "dont" you'll be a doctor one day! and all this will be soon forgotten! yes i'm a class of 2010 and i play with plastic teeth!! get over yourself and go get your requirements finished instead of sitting in front of the computer answering every person's little comment about USC!""""

I understand what they went through now!!! I wish I could apologize to this person!!!


I'm not continuing this discussion until next year at this time, when you're in clinic!!

 

[Columbia07]

Well said!





Columbia07, No one has a right to yell at students! We are supposed to go to professional school and not a dog house! Faculty can still correct mistakes by being polite and show how to do the procedures! If that's the culture at USC to yell at students in clinic then I definitely don't want to go there! I recommend you to enter third year before making any post on the forum and defend USC! I myself asked 5-6 students on the day of interview and they all said stay away from USC!

--Look, I don't care if you come to USC or not. I'm not here to market USC in any way.

--The fact that someone is yelling at you is not necessarily a bad thing. You can be yelled at in a polite way and you can be scolded. You'll understand when you extract the wrong tooth and you wish the attending would have pulled you aside and said "I know you're having a rough day... you just broke up with your boyfriend, and I'm sorry, but try and count next time... don't worry about the patient though, they'll just need to go and buy an implant." You bet your a$s someone is going to give you a piece of their mind. You blew it and you have to accept the fact that you're learning and faculty are there to supervise, teach, guide you and let you know when you f-ed up. It's life and they have LIVE patients to worry about.

--Live in your fantasy world, but you will understand when you have someone's health in your hands--some people take it seriously.

 

[Columbia07]

one thing I like to say, If you think throwing your x-rays across the room on the floor is what is called being a professional school, you entire Ideology about learning is completely different than mine!!!!!

This is an old quote from when I was in your place, I wrote this to another to another upperclassman.

"""sounds like an upperclassman is bitter again, how typical! don't worry Mr "dont" you'll be a doctor one day! and all this will be soon forgotten! yes i'm a class of 2010 and i play with plastic teeth!! get over yourself and go get your requirements finished instead of sitting in front of the computer answering every person's little comment about USC!""""

I understand what they went through now!!! I wish I could apologize to this person!!!


I'm not continuing this discussion until next year at this time, when you're in clinic!!

--Listen, I'm not saying it's easy in the clinic. I made this clear in my first post when I said I DON'T ENVY YOU.

--I was merely clearing things up that I thought you blew out of proportion. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this.

--Good luck.

 

[DiNoZeRo2o9]

--Listen, I'm not saying it's easy in the clinic. I made this clear in my first post when I said I DON'T ENVY YOU.

--I was merely clearing things up that I thought you blew out of proportion. I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this.

--Good luck.

Do you start all your threads with "Listen"?

Because it seems so. If we want to read your thread, we will. Telling us to listen really is useless.

 

[Columbia07]

Do you start all your threads with "Listen"?

Because it seems so. If we want to read your thread, we will. Telling us to listen really is useless.

--Did that make you feel better about yourself?

--You really flexed your analytical skills with that post... Good job!

 

[Upenn08]

Columbia07 has only proved that OP Seansk is giving us an accurate description of what it's like in the USC dental.

It is good that Columbia07 is keeping a positive attitute despite the screwed-up management of USC. But as for me, I don't want myself to be exposed to such situation and keep rationalizing myself that it is a good thing to me.

 

[DDSguyLA]

Do you start all your threads with "Listen"?

Because it seems so. If we want to read your thread, we will. Telling us to listen really is useless.

you're being anal about him writing "Listen"???

Oookay

 

[Danny289]

My understanding from this thread:
first two year: surviving (Ok)
clinic years : ( hell)


plus I think people choose USC, and are very excited being a dentist, being in south California, and bla la.... after a year and all excitement they realized the debt they are going through and seeing the clinic years, make them upside down.

 

[peerless218]

Wow...this debate is getting :slightly: heated. I don't know, I visited USC last semseter and personally. The facility is not too shabby (Not the best either) and the people seem nice. However, I think their bathrooms are really below the average for the amount of $$$ students are paying over there. We need more people's opinion on the clinic situation. Is that a true fact???

 

[JennDDS]

--Look, I don't care if you come to USC or not. I'm not here to market USC in any way.

--The fact that someone is yelling at you is not necessarily a bad thing. You can be yelled at in a polite way and you can be scolded. You'll understand when you extract the wrong tooth and you wish the attending would have pulled you aside and said "I know you're having a rough day... you just broke up with your boyfriend, and I'm sorry, but try and count next time... don't worry about the patient though, they'll just need to go and buy an implant." You bet your a$s someone is going to give you a piece of their mind. You blew it and you have to accept the fact that you're learning and faculty are there to supervise, teach, guide you and let you know when you f-ed up. It's life and they have LIVE patients to worry about.

--Live in your fantasy world, but you will understand when you have someone's health in your hands--some people take it seriously.

I am not living in fantasy world! But I don't believe yelling at student is acceptable in professional school especially when you pay 400,000 to get the best education! And it is funny that you assume every girl who has a rough day broke up with her boy friend! I guess it shows your character and how baseless your arguments are! I am sure you assume USC clinic is fine and it's student's fault that they don't have enough chairs! No wonder you are the only person on this forum who defends USC because you are not a reasonable person! Just make sure when you graduate don't yell at your patients or staff who work with you especially if they are female workers!

It is not very hard to find out how bad USC is doing! If you make an appointment for a day and attend their campus, juniors and seniors like Seansk tell you the truth and you keep hearing from them "stay away from USC"!

 

[Doc Ock]

Say UPenn...why did UPenn School of Dentistry fire your dean?

 

[bleech]

It is good to see these POV's, however this isn't the only opinion out there. It's just the only one on SDN. During my interview, I spoke with seven 3rd and 4th years, and didn't get anything negative from any of them. They said as long as you stay on top of what you need, there is no problem graduating on time. One guy was taking surfing lessons last semester (4th year) because he had so much spare time. So despite the steamrolling that USC is getting on here right now, I am taking it with a grain of salt and would advise others not to jump to conclusions based on a handful of opinions.

 

[Crew07]

I am tired of all the USC haters.... PBL is freakin awesome. I did my undergrad the same way. I never went to class, I would follow the lectures at my own leisure and study on my own. I have a few friends that are at USC and they love it. One of them is a fourth year that is done with all his requiments and has nothing to do till he graduates in May. USC offers time for students to have a life and family. many people have to sit in lectures ALL day EVERY day to learn. They don't have the ablilty to learn independently. Go to USC.... I promise a championship in .... two years!

 

[Columbia07]

I am not living in fantasy world! But I don't believe yelling at student is acceptable in professional school especially when you pay 400,000 to get the best education! And it is funny that you assume every girl who has a rough day broke up with her boy friend! I guess it shows your character and how baseless your arguments are! I am sure you assume USC clinic is fine and it's student's fault that they don't have enough chairs! No wonder you are the only person on this forum who defends USC because you are not a reasonable person! Just make sure when you graduate don't yell at your patients or staff who work with you especially if they are female workers!

It is not very hard to find out how bad USC is doing! If you make an appointment for a day and attend their campus, juniors and seniors like Seansk tell you the truth and you keep hearing from them "stay away from USC"!

1. I'm not assuming every girl having a rough day broke it off with their significant other. I was merely using this as an example. Would it have made you feel better if I had said that the poor girl lost her dog, or the poor guy failed his biochem midterm? Relax. It was merely a hypothetical situation.

2. Why would I yell at my patients? My staff, I would be firm with them if they did something that I felt could jeopardize the health of my patient, wouldn't you? Or, would you let it go? Sometimes people need to be told, firmly and with a raised voice, that what they did was wrong. If you missed some calculus on mesial buccal surface, your perio faculty are probably not going to yell at you. If you extract the wrong tooth, prep the wrong crown, etc, you're probably going to get yelled at. Is there something wrong with this? I think many students need to grow some thick skin. Think about being in a residency and treating a trauma patient... you f-up and someone is going to rain on your parade. They are not going to simply say, try this instead of doing this next time and maybe you won't need to bring this case up at the next M&M session. Get over the yelling thing.

3. Would it be more reasonable to be yelled at if I was on scholarship and not paying for my education? Or, if my education only cost 150,000 instead of 375K? You have some pretty screwy logic.

4. If you read my first post, I SPECIFICALLY STATED that "BESIDES THE LACK OF PATIENTS AND EMPTY CHAIRS," most of the student's complaints were just not true.

5. You think I don't attend the same school as this person. What you need to do is seriously evaluate whether or not someone is feeding you a load of crap, which usually stems from their frustration in the clinic (at least here at USC). I understand this, but I was merely clearing some things up. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to understand this. I'm not saying the clinic is easy, I'm not saying we don't have people still from the class of 07 and 08, but these problems are being resolved. This student has been in the clinic since August (probably more like September). He still has the Spring, Summer, Fall and Spring of 2010 to get patients and get his work done. Most students finish their BIG requirements in the Fall and Spring of their Senior year. There is nothing magical about the system. If you put in your time, pass your competencies, you should get out on time or early.

 

[JennDDS]

1. I'm not assuming every girl having a rough day broke it off with their significant other. I was merely using this as an example. Would it have made you feel better if I had said that the poor girl lost her dog, or the poor guy failed his biochem midterm? Relax. It was merely a hypothetical situation.

2. Why would I yell at my patients? My staff, I would be firm with them if they did something that I felt could jeopardize the health of my patient, wouldn't you? Or, would you let it go? Sometimes people need to be told, firmly and with a raised voice, that what they did was wrong. If you missed some calculus on mesial buccal surface, your perio faculty are probably not going to yell at you. If you extract the wrong tooth, prep the wrong crown, etc, you're probably going to get yelled at. Is there something wrong with this? I think many students need to grow some thick skin. Think about being in a residency and treating a trauma patient... you f-up and someone is going to rain on your parade. They are not going to simply say, try this instead of doing this next time and maybe you won't need to bring this case up at the next M&M session. Get over the yelling thing.

3. Would it be more reasonable to be yelled at if I was on scholarship and not paying for my education? Or, if my education only cost 150,000 instead of 375K? You have some pretty screwy logic.

I am glad I am not choosing USC so I don't need to deal with somebody like you who does not know how to speak to people! Your posts make me laugh! You just keep defending a school that does not even want to bother to get better, and might lose its accreditation in two years! Save your energy for the time you enter the clinic! You need to argue with many more people once you enter clinic.

 

[Ware]

Wow, everyone needs to calm the F*^@ down! I go to this site frequently because it has a lot of great information from current dental students and other pre-dents, but I haven't created a file until now because this thread is getting completely ridiculous.
Obviously USC has major issues going on, but to say that they don't care to rectify them is absolutely ludicrous. Do you think one of the oldest dental schools is just going to stand pat and not do anything as their school falls apart and they lose accreditation. I am sure changes are coming, they will just take time. If they don't I would be completely shocked.
Also, please leave the criticizing and S*^@ talking to current students. They have an obvious gripe and should be able to share their experiences, but if you are a pre-dent and are only going by what a student or two says you should calm down. Why do you care how much the tuition is if you aren't going there or better yet didn't even apply. If you have no desire to go to USC then SHUT UP.
I am not for or against USC, I just think it's wrong to rip a school apart if you are not going to have any affiliation to it. If you went to UCLA are you going to talk crap about UC Santa Cruz because you think its inferior? Grow up.

 

[dentaldental100]

1. I'm not assuming every girl having a rough day broke it off with their significant other. I was merely using this as an example. Would it have made you feel better if I had said that the poor girl lost her dog, or the poor guy failed his biochem midterm? Relax. It was merely a hypothetical situation.

2. Why would I yell at my patients? My staff, I would be firm with them if they did something that I felt could jeopardize the health of my patient, wouldn't you? Or, would you let it go? Sometimes people need to be told, firmly and with a raised voice, that what they did was wrong. If you missed some calculus on mesial buccal surface, your perio faculty are probably not going to yell at you. If you extract the wrong tooth, prep the wrong crown, etc, you're probably going to get yelled at. Is there something wrong with this? I think many students need to grow some thick skin. Think about being in a residency and treating a trauma patient... you f-up and someone is going to rain on your parade. They are not going to simply say, try this instead of doing this next time and maybe you won't need to bring this case up at the next M&M session. Get over the yelling thing.

3. Would it be more reasonable to be yelled at if I was on scholarship and not paying for my education? Or, if my education only cost 150,000 instead of 375K? You have some pretty screwy logic.

4. If you read my first post, I SPECIFICALLY STATED that "BESIDES THE LACK OF PATIENTS AND EMPTY CHAIRS," most of the student's complaints were just not true.

5. You think I don't attend the same school as this person. What you need to do is seriously evaluate whether or not someone is feeding you a load of crap, which usually stems from their frustration in the clinic (at least here at USC). I understand this, but I was merely clearing some things up. I'm not sure why it's so hard for people to understand this. I'm not saying the clinic is easy, I'm not saying we don't have people still from the class of 07 and 08, but these problems are being resolved. This student has been in the clinic since August (probably more like September). He still has the Spring, Summer, Fall and Spring of 2010 to get patients and get his work done. Most students finish their BIG requirements in the Fall and Spring of their Senior year. There is nothing magical about the system. If you put in your time, pass your competencies, you should get out on time or early.

I think what I am most interested now is, what Columbia07 will say in a year or so when they are in the clinic if what they say will still be the same, or similar to seansk.

Please do keep us informed when your in the clinic Columbia07!!

 

[DentalP87]

I don't want to be mean here people, but let's face it.. predents (starting 2-3 years ago) only go to USC since they have no other choice.

Who wants to be half a million in debt with the worst clinical prep in North America?

What kind of school has a board pass rate of less than 20%? Does that make any sense at all? You don't need much thinking for this. Seriously.

Bottom Line: If you have multiple acceptances, just don't go to USC!

 

[BioMaxDDS]

What kind of school has a board pass rate of less than 20%? Does that make any sense at all? You don't need much thinking for this. Seriously.

less than 20%? are you sure?