don't go to USC

[TRN1983]

In california, people know that the UC system is far superior than the CSU system so USC would like to point that out to make them look better. I don't see anything wrong that with besides stating the truth. They could also say we have 1 student from harvard, but I doubt they do

I go to a CSU and there are plenty of people who have attended UC's and private schools now at my CSU for a myriad of reasons. I've never heard one of them say they felt they were getting an inferior education and I've really dug for that info because of the baloney that is thrown around by the UC kids on this forum. In fact, the most recent three discussions I've had were from UCSD and USC students. UCSD student #1 was complaining they got steamrolled into a B in a Molecular Cell Biology class they felt they put in A level work for--whining about the classes being too hard after graduating UCSD. The other UCSD student was complaining he had a harder time keeping up, especially without the stenographers providing notes. The USC student just hated the school altogether.

We use the same textbooks as the other schools; the difference is that when we need to discuss a topic with our professor, the professor is actually there to assist us! Imagine how horribly that must affect our education! I'd hardly refer to that as inferior.

Now, if you're referring to graduate level programs, you're 100% correct. CSU's have very little research funding compared to UC's.

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[seansk]

less than 20%? are you sure?

USC has things wrong but this is not one of them, Boards part I for our class was almost 100 percent. They just don't prepare us, we all prepare ourselves!!? I think we have a lot of hard working people in our school!! Don't get me wrong I still think its important to have courses like biochem, physio etc. That means we don't have to learn all that crap for the first time for the boards. But to be fair Boards passing rate is pretty high!!

 

[dentstd]

I go to a CSU and there are plenty of people who have attended UC's and private schools now at my CSU for a myriad of reasons. I've never heard one of them say they felt they were getting an inferior education and I've really dug for that info because of the baloney that is thrown around by the UC kids on this forum. In fact, the most recent three discussions I've had were from UCSD and USC students. UCSD student #1 was complaining they got steamrolled into a B in a Molecular Cell Biology class they felt they put in A level work for--whining about the classes being too hard after graduating UCSD. The other UCSD student was complaining he had a harder time keeping up, especially without the stenographers providing notes. The USC student just hated the school altogether.

We use the same textbooks as the other schools; the difference is that when we need to discuss a topic with our professor, the professor is actually there to assist us! Imagine how horribly that must affect our education! I'd hardly refer to that as inferior.

Now, if you're referring to graduate level programs, you're 100% correct. CSU's have very little research funding compared to UC's.

Do you realize this thread's about USC, not CSU? And it's about the dental program, not the medical program.

And I saw your mdapp profile. I'm in accordance with everybody on there. Something weird's going on if you're not getting interviews.

 

[Black Teeth]

I love this thread. I think it is extremely interesting and good for predents. No matter who you agree with, whether it's seansk or columia07, these two individuals started a very healthy debate on a very important issue. At the very least, these two people have made other predents re-think and evaluate which dental school is best for them and to not blindly accept the first acceptance offer they get without checking all the facts. And that's what makes SDN so great…people can present their side of the argument and let the predents decide for themselves. It's okay to disagree without being disagreeable. With something as important as deciding which dental school to attend and whether someone should invest $100K per year for their dental education, I think it's okay for the argument to get a little heated as long as it doesn't become personal. So far, I think it's great that most people are sticking to their arguing points without letting it get too personal with personal insults. Personal insults don't help anyone.

 

[Black Teeth]

Based on what I've read from seansk's post, it sounds like USC is running their dental clinic similar to the way UCLA once ran it's clinic about 5 years ago. UCLA's dental clinic had designated clinic areas for specific procedures as well. We had separate areas designated for restorative, perio, endo, dentures, etc respectively. We were each assigned to large group practices in very much the same way that seansk described his experience at USC. Pretty much everything that seansk described in his posts sounds a lot like how things were run at UCLA and I can tell you from first hand experience that this system of managing the dental clinic SUCKS!!! It is totally inefficient. The UCLA dental students had the same complaint about that system 5 years ago that seansk is now having about USC. The UCLA students use to complain how on one day, one area of the dental clinic such as restorative would get overloaded with patients and there weren't enough chairs for everyone while other areas such as endo and dentures were totally empty. Like seansk, we complained that it was a total waste of space!!! As a result of this system, UCLA students were not graduating on time because it was a challenge just to get an appointment. I'm certain that some of the faculty at UCLA regularly interact with those at USC and I would not be surprised if one dental school modeled their management of the dental clinic based on the other dental school. After all, UCLA and USC are only 5 miles from each other. If USC's management of the dental clinic is indeed similar to the way UCLA once managed its dental clinic based on seansk's description, then I would have to agree with seansk's argument. It cannot be a coincidence where two dental schools that are only a few miles apart, are managing the dental clinic in the same manner and getting the same complaints from its students. The only logical conclusion that I can come up with is that particular system of managing the dental clinic is very flawed. I'm thankful that UCLA abandoned that system and rightfully so. I had the opportunity to experience both the old and new system of clinic management at UCLA and I have to say that the difference is a huge improvement. This improvement only re-enforces the notion that it is the system of managing the clinic that is flawed and any applicant who is considering attending USC, which seems to still be using this system, should take that into consideration! That's just my opinion of course.

P.S. - As most of you already know, graduating on time from any dental school is a HUGE deal! I've heard of people having to turn down acceptances from residency and specialty programs because they didn't graduate on time from their respective dental schools...and these programs are super competitive to get into. Most specialty programs begin a few weeks after graduation from dental school and if you are not done with your graduation requirements...you're screwed! For those of you thinking about going into a specialty...if you thought getting into dental school was hard, just wait until you apply for specialty programs. Dental schools have at least 100 spots whereas the majority of specialty programs have roughly only 4-5 openings in which hundreds of applicants are competing for those few spots. How would you feel if you worked so hard to get accepted to a specialty program only to have to turn it down because you're not done with your graduation requirements? You may not be lucky enough to ever get accepted again. So my point is TO DO YOUR RESEARCH AND ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU DECIDE ON A DENTAL SCHOOL! This is why I think this thread is so valuable. It brings attention to certain issues that predents should be thinking about. But to be fair and balanced, USC does have it's strong points. USC and UCLA once shared the same satellite pediatric dental facility and I was always told by the auxilliary staff that the USC students were a little bit faster at performing procedures than UCLA students, at least when it comes to pediatric patients.

 

[charlestweed]

USC has had the same problems for years and they are getting worse. My wife went to USC 10+ years ago…the problems were pretty much like what Seansk described: not enough chairs, tough clinical requirements (a lot of students failed the clinical compentency exams), strict instructors, and rude staff etc. The graduation rate was much higher for my wife's class because her class size was a lot smaller (only 110 students) so there were more patients avail for each student.

I had problems with the UCLA system (it's good that UCLA realized the problems and changed the system) but they were nothing like at USC. The clinical requirements at UCLA were also significantly less than the requirements at USC. I only had to do 12 crowns to graduate….my wife had to do 30+ crowns.

 

[Doc Ock]

That's pretty funny.

Why is having 3x the required clinical experience a BAD thing? Why is having stringent competency examination a BAD thing?

Obviously if these standards strain the clinical facilties and create late graduation, then this is a bad thing. But why does more mean it is a BAD school?

I don't get it.

I think requirements need to be scaled back if it creating a backlog of students. The standard would be how well they do on licensing examinations. If the students are doing fine, then the requirements are too much. There has to be a reasonable equality here and obviously USC has set the bar way too high for the student to complete it in a timely manner. But this is BAD?

UCLA is notorious for having too little clinical experience. I guess this just reinforces that notion.

 

[charlestweed]

To be a good dentist, you must learn how to properly diagnose the dental problems and come up the right treatment plans to deal with these problems….not on the number of fillings and crowns that you did in dental school.

UCLA students have had no problem passing the state board exams.

 

[Black Teeth]

That's pretty funny.

Why is having 3x the required clinical experience a BAD thing? Why is having stringent competency examination a BAD thing?

Obviously if these standards strain the clinical facilties and create late graduation, then this is a bad thing. But why does more mean it is a BAD school?

I don't get it.

I think requirements need to be scaled back if it creating a backlog of students. The standard would be how well they do on licensing examinations. If the students are doing fine, then the requirements are too much. There has to be a reasonable equality here and obviously USC has set the bar way too high for the student to complete it in a timely manner. But this is BAD?

UCLA is notorious for having too little clinical experience. I guess this just reinforces that notion.

In the ideal world, having three times the required clinical experience would be awesome. It's great in theory but very hard in practice.

But I think you answered your own question. Why are more clinical requirements a bad thing? As you pointed out, "if these standards strain the clinical facilties and create late graduation, then this is a bad thing". But I get what you mean though. More clinical requirements in itself is not a bad thing…it's a good thing. But like I said earlier, it's great in theory but very hard in practice. As you wisely pointed out:

"I think requirements need to be scaled back if it creating a backlog of students. The standard would be how well they do on licensing examinations. If the students are doing fine, then the requirements are too much. There has to be a reasonable equality here and obviously USC has set the bar way too high for the student to complete it in a timely manner."

As far as UCLA being notorious for having too little clinical experience, I might have agreed with you 5 years ago. I've heard some of my upperclassman at that time, say that they couldn't perform the procedures as fast as everyone else when they first graduated and many went into a GPR in order to gain speed. But at least they could perform the procedures competently and understood dental principles enough to know the reason WHY things are being done. Speed is not that big of a deal because most dental students nationwide are slow by private practice standards when they graduate in any case. Everyone gets faster once they enter private practice. But things at UCLA have changed since then. Five years ago, UCLA hired a new clinic director and he made some great improvements. UCLA students these days are able to accomplish more than the graduation requirements. Many people in my class graduated with completing 20+ crowns even though the requirement is much less than that. My point is that UCLA adopted a system that made it possible to complete your requirements in a timely manner and the opportunity to get more clinical experience is there if you want it. Clearly if USC is going to set the graduation requirement so high, it only makes sense to adopt a system of clinic management to make that goal feasible. After all, the students at USC pay a pretty penny and they deserve that much. The cost of not changing the current system is too high. I would say that not completing your graduation requirements on time and having to turn down acceptance into a specialty program or an awesome job opportunity is too high of a cost. Wouldn't you?

 

[Black Teeth]

To be a good dentist, you must learn how to properly diagnose the dental problems and come up the right treatment plans to deal with these problems….not on the number of fillings and crowns that you did in dental school.

UCLA students have had no problem passing the state board exams.

I would agree. Having good clinical judgement is what separates a good dentist from a bad one. Otherwise, dentists would all be robots just going through the motions.

 

[Upenn08]

I would agree. Having good clinical judgement is what separates a good dentist from a bad one. Otherwise, dentists would all be robots just going through the motions.

Yeah, that's why I think graduates from top schools such as UCLA, Columbia, Penn and Harvard eventually become better dentists than graduates from USC for example, although those top school graduates (usually have less clinical requirements) could have difficulties for the first 1 year after graduating.

 

[Oracle DMD]

Yeah, that's why I think graduates from top schools such as UCLA, Columbia, Penn and Harvard eventually become better dentists than graduates from USC for example, although those top school graduates (usually have less clinical requirements) could have difficulties for the first 1 year after graduating.

What facts do you have showing this? While i would say that going to USC might make it more difficult to learn and could be a real aggrivating experience (according to current students), there is no evidence that i've ever heard of that says they graduate as less competant dentists. to the contrary; if you've been doing PBL for 4-5 years, you may be much better in many aspects of dentistry. i'd imagine if someone had been self-studying and researching for years that they'd be a more aggressive academic dentist then a traditional student. but either way i'd like to hear the basis of your opinion that the "top schools" put out "better" dentists. and better in what way? if you graduate from USC i'd have to say you're more than likely just as good of a dentist that just graduated from anywhere else.

 

[Doc Ock]

There is no substitute for Clinical Experience. Period.

Now a good dentist does need to critically think and analyze and not just be a good jewelry maker. Yes I agree with this. But the more that you see and do the more confident and knowledgeable you will be. Clinical experience is learned Clinically...not by looking at some book or thinking about it. And mind you PBL creates a critically thinking dentist not a rote reciter.

There is a vast difference in a dentist trained at Harvard (with no pre Clinical dentistry and no emphasis on Clinical Dentistry) and a dentist trained at UOP for example. And if I am the patient, I think I want a guy who can moves his hands better than contemplate a thought.

Obviously USC needs to equalize what a student can and needs to accomplish clinically. But to say you are a superior dentist or go to a superior school because you do less requirements is ridiculous.

To analyze if there are too many requirements, one needs to see if the classes are graduating on time and to see if the product is clinically competent (measured by pass rate on licensing exams ala Cal or WREB boards). If the product is clinically competent but is taking too long to progress through your school, then there are too many requirements and it is too stringent.

I have seen and trained very fine Clinicians from all of these schools(including USC), and I have seen and trained Clinicians from the very best "Ivy" schools who couldn't cut their way out of a paper bag.

So gain some perspective here.

 

[Doc Ock]

There is no substitute for Clinical Experience. Period.

Now a good dentist does need to critically think and analyze and not just be a good jewelry maker. Yes I agree with this. But the more that you see and do the more confident and knowledgeable you will be. Clinical experience is learned Clinically...not by looking at some book or thinking about it. And mind you PBL creates a critically thinking dentist not a rote reciter.

There is a vast difference in a dentist trained at Harvard (with no pre Clinical dentistry and no emphasis on Clinical Dentistry) and a dentist trained at UOP for example. And if I am the patient, I think I want a guy who can moves his hands better than contemplate a thought.

Obviously USC needs to equalize what a student can and needs to accomplish clinically. But to say you are a superior dentist or go to a superior school because you do less requirements is ridiculous.

To analyze if there are too many requirements, one needs to see if the classes are graduating on time and to see if the product is clinically competent (measured by pass rate on licensing exams ala Cal or WREB boards). If the product is clinically competent but is taking too long to progress through your school, then there are too many requirements and it is too stringent.

I have seen and trained very fine Clinicians from all of these schools(including USC), and I have seen and trained Clinicians from the very best "Ivy" schools who couldn't cut their way out of a paper bag.

So gain some perspective here.

 

[iJackTeeth]

does USC have partnerships with different clinics/private practices where students can fulfill their requirements?

 

[Oracle DMD]

There is no substitute for Clinical Experience. Period.

Now a good dentist does need to critically think and analyze and not just be a good jewelry maker. Yes I agree with this. But the more that you see and do the more confident and knowledgeable you will be. Clinical experience is learned Clinically...not by looking at some book or thinking about it. And mind you PBL creates a critically thinking dentist not a rote reciter.

There is a vast difference in a dentist trained at Harvard (with no pre Clinical dentistry and no emphasis on Clinical Dentistry) and a dentist trained at UOP for example. And if I am the patient, I think I want a guy who can moves his hands better than contemplate a thought.

Obviously USC needs to equalize what a student can and needs to accomplish clinically. But to say you are a superior dentist or go to a superior school because you do less requirements is ridiculous.

To analyze if there are too many requirements, one needs to see if the classes are graduating on time and to see if the product is clinically competent (measured by pass rate on licensing exams ala Cal or WREB boards). If the product is clinically competent but is taking too long to progress through your school, then there are too many requirements and it is too stringent.

I have seen and trained very fine Clinicians from all of these schools(including USC), and I have seen and trained Clinicians from the very best "Ivy" schools who couldn't cut their way out of a paper bag.

So gain some perspective here.

agreed. but how you cut doesn't denote the quality of dentist either. why you do what you do is just as important as what you do. it seems that a lot of dentists graduate, become experienced and rely on their experience and ONLY their experience as criteria for treatment planning etc. part of this is due to the lack of reliable peer reviewed data, but part of it is arrogence too i suppose. but that is for another thread i guess so i digress. the point is; you will be fine if you go to USC, but if you get in somewhere else and want to avoid some debt and frustration...you know what to do.

 

[seansk]

That's pretty funny.

Why is having 3x the required clinical experience a BAD thing? Why is having stringent competency examination a BAD thing?

Obviously if these standards strain the clinical facilties and create late graduation, then this is a bad thing. But why does more mean it is a BAD school?

I don't get it.

I think requirements need to be scaled back if it creating a backlog of students. The standard would be how well they do on licensing examinations. If the students are doing fine, then the requirements are too much. There has to be a reasonable equality here and obviously USC has set the bar way too high for the student to complete it in a timely manner. But this is BAD?

UCLA is notorious for having too little clinical experience. I guess this just reinforces that notion.

More does not mean bad. But think about it, you will gain most of your clinical experience after you graduate. in your dental school career you will probably prep anywhere between 10 to 30 crowns. However in your practice you will prep thousands.

I don't believe an extra 10 crowns is going to drastically increase your clinical competence in the long run. But what it can do is delay your graduation, and indirectly decrease you clinical competence.

too many requirements sometime force students here to provide unethical treatment to their patients, put patients' wellness in jeopardy, and focus more on getting things done, than getting things done right. I'm not promoting this kind of behavior, but in my opinion this will happen more often as a result of excessive requirements.

A student who just applied to a specialty, will focus most of his energy at our school graduating on time rather than providing service and well being to his/her patient. This happens in fear of losing his/her spot at the specialty program.

I just talked to a senior of mine, he told me about this poor HIV patient who was treatment planned for 12 crowns a year and half ago. 6 out of the 12 crowns were prepped and provisionalized, but the patient was never called back or kept up with. you ask why? because he (the patient) was thrown around from student to student just to take competency exams (prep and provisionalize) and be able to graduate. He is still in 6 provisionals (temporarys) a year and a half later. This is just an example of what can happen as a result.

 

[Columbia07]

More does not mean bad. But think about it, you will gain most of your clinical experience after you graduate. in your dental school career you will probably prep anywhere between 10 to 30 crowns. However in your practice you will prep thousands.

I don't believe an extra 10 crowns is going to drastically increase your clinical competence in the long run. But what it can do is delay your graduation, and indirectly decrease you clinical competence.

too many requirements sometime force students here to provide unethical treatment to their patients, put patients' wellness in jeopardy, and focus more on getting things done, than getting things done right. I'm not promoting this kind of behavior, but in my opinion this will happen more often as a result of excessive requirements.

A student who just applied to a specialty, will focus most of his energy at our school graduating on time rather than providing service and well being to his/her patient. This happens in fear of losing his/her spot at the specialty program.

I just talked to a senior of mine, he told me about this poor HIV patient who was treatment planned for 12 crowns a year and half ago. 6 out of the 12 crowns were prepped and provisionalized, but the patient was never called back or kept up with. you ask why? because he (the patient) was thrown around from student to student just to take competency exams (prep and provisionalize) and be able to graduate. He is still in 6 provisionals (temporarys) a year and a half later. This is just an example of what can happen as a result.

--Treating patients like they're testing subjects is just wrong, but students are not the only ones to blame here. Look at the WREB, NERB, etc, which all require students to take an EXAM on a patient! Is this patient ever followed up, in most instances they are NOT. I think this is a major problem in dentistry across the board.

--Students should be taken to the ethics board for this type of behavior. Additionally, clinic faculty should never let this happen (i.e., they see a provisional in the patient's mouth... look at Axium and say oh Christ, this thing was placed 8.5 months ago...)

--Students are a product of the system in place, and often they will resort to whatever it takes to get them out because we still work on a point system. You can equate this problem to the problem the Joint Committee/ADA are having with the NBDE--students cheating to hopefully gain a spot in a residency program. However, USC did lower the fixed requirements for your class, Seansk (2010). Granted you can't do as many Veneer cases, but you also don't need to do as many crows.

--I truly believe things are changing for the better, but these problems are never worked out overnight. Think of where we were 1.5 years ago--18% graduation rate, Dean Slavkin, and higher clinical requirements.

 

[ROSE1010]

What was the graduation rate last year?

 

[gryffindor]

I just talked to a senior of mine, he told me about this poor HIV patient who was treatment planned for 12 crowns a year and half ago. 6 out of the 12 crowns were prepped and provisionalized, but the patient was never called back or kept up with. you ask why? because he (the patient) was thrown around from student to student just to take competency exams (prep and provisionalize) and be able to graduate. He is still in 6 provisionals (temporarys) a year and a half later. This is just an example of what can happen as a result.

That is terrible. Just to give some perspective here since it's mostly pre-dents reading on here, at Buffalo, this would not have happened. The patient would have been assigned to a junior student, and that student would treat and follow the patient for 2 years, and then pass the patient onto the next student for continuity of care. It was near impossible for the faculty to allow two students to prep crowns on the same patient for the sake of passing a competency because it wasn't good for the patient's continuity of care. The second student who didn't have a crown would have to hustle to find a patient who needed one, but the school had enough patients continually being screened that the student could hopefully find one.

If the school is going to require you to do 30 crowns but then not provide an adequate system that the majority of students are able to have enough patients to meet this requirement, then that is the school's fault. And to pay $400K for such a terrible experience is sad. By my senior year, it was becoming obvious that many students were having a lot of difficulty meeting the bridge requirement because patients were opting for implants more often. What did the school do? They helped distribute patients so students could meet the requirement. What they didn't do is set the bridge requirement at "You must do 5 bridges to graduate" and let the students fend for themselves. Clinic was not easy and you had to constantly be looking out for yourself and be organized about what requirements you still needed to meet, but I'm glad I didn't have to experience some of the craziness I read about on SDN (stuff like what seansk is talking about or paying for patients to finish treatment plans to graduate, etc).

 

[seansk]

--Treating patients like they're testing subjects is just wrong, but students are not the only ones to blame here. Look at the WREB, NERB, etc, which all require students to take an EXAM on a patient! Is this patient ever followed up, in most instances they are NOT. I think this is a major problem in dentistry across the board.

--Students should be taken to the ethics board for this type of behavior. Additionally, clinic faculty should never let this happen (i.e., they see a provisional in the patient's mouth... look at Axium and say oh Christ, this thing was placed 8.5 months ago...)

--Students are a product of the system in place, and often they will resort to whatever it takes to get them out because we still work on a point system. You can equate this problem to the problem the Joint Committee/ADA are having with the NBDE--students cheating to hopefully gain a spot in a residency program. However, USC did lower the fixed requirements for your class, Seansk (2010). Granted you can't do as many Veneer cases, but you also don't need to do as many crows.

--I truly believe things are changing for the better, but these problems are never worked out overnight. Think of where we were 1.5 years ago--18% graduation rate, Dean Slavkin, and higher clinical requirements.

ya they

went from 26 crowns to 20

but they also

--added phys eval requirements of 15 graded (must pass)
--added 2 core buildup requirements
--went from 5 to 10 caries risk assesments
--went from 0 to 20 pedo prohy's,
--went from 1 to 20 pedo exams and treatment plans
--25 to 40 pedo restorative procedures

according to you why the hell do I need to do 20 prophys on a kid, just do it twice and your set? But its ok to keep anesthesia at 2 sessions!! HONESTLY DO YOU FIND SOMETHING ODD ABOUT THAT??? I'm really not trying to argue with you, but I think doing 20 pedo prophys is not gonna benefit me as much as 2 more sessions of anesthesia!


I'm not saying these are hard procedures. But every single procedure will take up another morning or afternoon of your schedule!!

I want to believe things are changing. My freshman year they kept saying they want to change, they're gonna change, but rarely things change...and if they do they are so minuscule, that the overal system remains the same.

I hope to g-d in another 4 years the school is not the same, they are in jeopardy of losing accreditation and closing the school. I go to USC too and I don't want USC to close down, and having my patients question me what the hell happened!!

I don't know, I just can't see it happened, You are more optimistic than I am. I wish I could see it your way!!

 

[Columbia07]

ya they

went from 26 crowns to 20

but they also

--added phys eval requirements of 15 graded (must pass)
--added 2 core buildup requirements
--went from 5 to 10 caries risk assesments
--went from 0 to 20 pedo prohy's,
--went from 1 to 20 pedo exams and treatment plans
--25 to 40 pedo restorative procedures

according to you why the hell do I need to do 20 prophys on a kid, just do it twice and your set? But its ok to keep anesthesia at 2 sessions!! HONESTLY DO YOU FIND SOMETHING ODD ABOUT THAT??? I'm really not trying to argue with you, but I think doing 20 pedo prophys is not gonna benefit me as much as 2 more sessions of anesthesia!


I'm not saying these are hard procedures. But every single procedure will take up another morning or afternoon of your schedule!!

I want to believe things are changing. My freshman year they kept saying they want to change, they're gonna change, but rarely things change...and if they do they are so minuscule, that the overal system remains the same.

I hope to g-d in another 4 years the school is not the same, they are in jeopardy of losing accreditation and closing the school. I go to USC too and I don't want USC to close down, and having my patients question me what the hell happened!!

I don't know, I just can't see it happened, You are more optimistic than I am. I wish I could see it your way!!

--I'm not here to argue either. However, I can assure you that USC is not in jeopardy of losing its accreditation or closing down. In fact, most of the accreditation stuff matters very little (much of it is administrative that the school puts together months to years in advance).

--Think about this for a moment... how often are you going to administer LA? Nearly EVERY procedure you do. How often are you going to do a Pedo Restoration or Prophy? Probably ONLY WHEN YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO DO IT BECAUSE IT'S A REQUIREMENT.

--I can't explain to you why they increased the pedo requirements, but students are never short on prophies or restorative. It is almost always FIXED that screws everyone.

 

[Riley1]

My brother went to SC and what I heard from him was exactly what Seansk says on this forum! My family is from LA and my brother chose USC over UPenn to save money for the cost of living but he deeply regrets his decision because he had a very hard time to find patients and he graduated semester later last summer! I suggest to go to clinic and ask seniors who work on the clinic to know about SC. I personally did not apply to SC after my brother's bad experience. I was fortunate to get accepted to Tufts and NYU and I am leaning toward NYU since my boy friend is accepted to NYU medical school too. Do your own research and if you feel you need more information, you can always make an appointment to visit the school.

 

[Black Teeth]

More does not mean bad. But think about it, you will gain most of your clinical experience after you graduate. in your dental school career you will probably prep anywhere between 10 to 30 crowns. However in your practice you will prep thousands.

I don't believe an extra 10 crowns is going to drastically increase your clinical competence in the long run. But what it can do is delay your graduation, and indirectly decrease you clinical competence.

too many requirements sometime force students here to provide unethical treatment to their patients, put patients' wellness in jeopardy, and focus more on getting things done, than getting things done right. I'm not promoting this kind of behavior, but in my opinion this will happen more often as a result of excessive requirements.

A student who just applied to a specialty, will focus most of his energy at our school graduating on time rather than providing service and well being to his/her patient. This happens in fear of losing his/her spot at the specialty program.

I just talked to a senior of mine, he told me about this poor HIV patient who was treatment planned for 12 crowns a year and half ago. 6 out of the 12 crowns were prepped and provisionalized, but the patient was never called back or kept up with. you ask why? because he (the patient) was thrown around from student to student just to take competency exams (prep and provisionalize) and be able to graduate. He is still in 6 provisionals (temporarys) a year and a half later. This is just an example of what can happen as a result.

Well said...you make some very good points.

 

[charlestweed]

Columbia07 or Seansk, do USC instructors still teach you guys to finish the crown prep with a bevelled shoulder margin? Just a silly question.

 

[Columbia07]

Columbia07 or Seansk, do USC instructors still teach you guys to finish the crown prep with a bevelled shoulder margin? Just a silly question.

Yes, full bevel on CVC, partial Bevel on the PFM... and the 7/8th and 3/4 crowns also have bevels and flares in certain areas. Pain in my *****.

 

[seansk]

Columbia07 or Seansk, do USC instructors still teach you guys to finish the crown prep with a bevelled shoulder margin? Just a silly question.

Depends what your prepping,
Shoulder Bevel for CVC gold,
combination of Shoulder bevel, shoulder on PFM,
chamfer on venners.
Usually on the outside most people use chamfer, because it takes less time to prep right??

 

[youngmc27]

I too am a second year student hear at USC and I feel like some of the concerns that have been expressed here are valid and others are just rediculous. If you work hard you can easily finish on time and be a great dentist even from USC. We ae clinically very good when we finish her. I have many friends that are Seniors and have already finished up there requirements and a few have been done since Ocober. Now explain to me how some students can be done in a few months early and others can't finish on time. Some of that does go on the school of course but much of the problems should lie with teh students. I would like to point to our soph. Perio experience. We all are required to do 5 requirements and then pass a compatancy exam. You then have various workshops and things that need to be done to completely sign out. You get 6 weeks to complete them in the Fall semester and then eight more weeks in the spring to finish. I have worked hard and asked around and done what was needed to find patients that would help me complete my requirements and I am now a competancy away from finishing my requirements and I have only been in clinic for 6 weeks. I got one patient from my junior and the rest I went and got on my own. If you want to be spoon fed eveything here you won't get done. But if you put in your best efforts and work hard you can and will finish on time. There are many options to get patients and get the requirements to graduate but you need to take some initiative and get things done. I know that clinic can be difficult but I also have spoken to a lot of people and assisted a lot of people that are well on there way to an on time or most likely early graduation. Work hard and you will be rewarded sit around and complain about thinngs when they get rough and you will have a hard miserable time until you finally get out of here.

 

[youngmc27]

less than 20%? are you sure?

That is absolutely not true the junior class only had one person not pass the boards this year and there are numerous scores in the 90s.

 

[Columbia07]

I too am a second year student hear at USC and I feel like some of the concerns that have been expressed here are valid and others are just rediculous. If you work hard you can easily finish on time and be a great dentist even from USC. We ae clinically very good when we finish her. I have many friends that are Seniors and have already finished up there requirements and a few have been done since Ocober. Now explain to me how some students can be done in a few months early and others can't finish on time. Some of that does go on the school of course but much of the problems should lie with teh students. I would like to point to our soph. Perio experience. We all are required to do 5 requirements and then pass a compatancy exam. You then have various workshops and things that need to be done to completely sign out. You get 6 weeks to complete them in the Fall semester and then eight more weeks in the spring to finish. I have worked hard and asked around and done what was needed to find patients that would help me complete my requirements and I am now a competancy away from finishing my requirements and I have only been in clinic for 6 weeks. I got one patient from my junior and the rest I went and got on my own. If you want to be spoon fed eveything here you won't get done. But if you put in your best efforts and work hard you can and will finish on time. There are many options to get patients and get the requirements to graduate but you need to take some initiative and get things done. I know that clinic can be difficult but I also have spoken to a lot of people and assisted a lot of people that are well on there way to an on time or most likely early graduation. Work hard and you will be rewarded sit around and complain about thinngs when they get rough and you will have a hard miserable time until you finally get out of here.

--I completely agree with Youngmc27. I'm also one competency away from being done with Sophmore Perio Block AND I had a patient cancel on me my first week of Soph. Perio Block (so, I had five weeks to hustle and get things done). So, now I have 8 weeks to do ONE COMP; however, there are some students in my class, that have now been in Soph. Perio block for 8 weeks that have only completed ONE PROPHY (1 requirement and maybe a few workshops), which is just f-ing ridiculous. But, you watch... these students in a few months will be on here ranting about how USC should provide them with the perfect patient every week so they can get out of Perio before the Fall.

--My biggest pet peeve is when people don't give credit where credit is due. They rip SC apart because of the craziness of the clinic and then go on to tell everyone that USC is in shambles in every possible aspect and finally come to the conclusion that USC produces robots instead of doctors. It gets old. There are major problems that need to be addressed, and they are, it's just going to take some time.

--I believe the on time grad rate for 08 was something in the mid 70's; however, the university extended the date to obtain a diploma for spring to June 15th, which allowed, I think, another 10-15% to graduate before needing to wait to get their diploma in August. So, I would say some where in the 85% range By mid-June, which probably left ~20-25 students over the Summer and Fall.

 

[seansk]

Fine, there are good and bad things about this school, I want you guys to point out the bad so far.

I want you to point out the good and the bad about Things. It seems like all you're doing is just defending what is wrong with the school.. Why don't you point out some good things and some bad things!! Granted you still havn't really gone through posterior or anterior fixed. and still havn't Started clinic, and havn't really started getting boards mock board exams.

Tell people about how effective or ineffective MCQ's are.
Tell people about T3's and P3's and Combots, where exactly the material comes from to study for those exams.
Tell people how the grading system work!!!
Tell people about The goods and bads of the anatmoy course, amalgam course, composite course. or whatever else. I want you to paint a clear picture for people.
Tell people about the organization of school.
Tell people about the facilitators.
and whatever else you can think of.
Please try to be realistic

 

[UCSF2012]

Should anyone decide on going to USC, the topics on the NBDE are listed on the ADA website. Buy the books and read up on those topics. All the books are available at the med school bookstore (their med school is top notch, fyi.) For clinical, buy a book in operative dentistry. It'll teach you everything you need to know, and then it's just a matter of practice. You have all the tools you need.

The only piece of the puzzle is doing the requirements on an actual patient. For that, you'll have to fight for.

And I suggest doing the military scholarship, cuz the tuition is back-breaking.

 

[UCSF2012]

I attend one of the best dental schools in the country, and in honesty, NOTHING that we learn - academic and clinical - isn't found in the books on my shelf. I've already gone through our lectures and the textbooks and the information's identical. If you don't have time to read a textbook, buy a Kaplan book. Those are very good.

USC gives you ample time outside of class to learn everything. Problem's that it's geared towards self-learners. Those who require the help of others may not do so hot.

 

[youngmc27]

My only real complaint about the school so far besides the price is the fact that we have facilitators that are dictators more than facilitators and many of them are not dentists and some of them do not even have and MS degree let alone a PhD. I also don't like that we have no real direction in posterior fixed we use the Schillenberg textbook but a manuel writeen specifically for our class and our school would make this so much better. I also think that T3s aren't a real test of what you have learned but a luck of the draw thing on who is going to grade you. T3s are complained about on this site all the time and not just the USC students. An PBL program probably takes T3 because they are the standard exam for PBL. We will see how it goes once we are in clinic. I don't think that any of these things are reason enough to tell someone not to come here. Or to be as bitter at the school as some students appear to be. We will see what the future holds on the clinic floor.

 

[Columbia07]

Fine, there are good and bad things about this school, I want you guys to point out the bad so far.

I want you to point out the good and the bad about Things. It seems like all you're doing is just defending what is wrong with the school.. Why don't you point out some good things and some bad things!! Granted you still havn't really gone through posterior or anterior fixed. and still havn't Started clinic, and havn't really started getting boards mock board exams.

Tell people about how effective or ineffective MCQ's are.
Tell people about T3's and P3's and Combots, where exactly the material comes from to study for those exams.
Tell people how the grading system work!!!
Tell people about The goods and bads of the anatmoy course, amalgam course, composite course. or whatever else. I want you to paint a clear picture for people.
Tell people about the organization of school.
Tell people about the facilitators.
and whatever else you can think of.
Please try to be realistic

--I feel I've been fair so far. But I will answer your questions.

1. MCQ's are often a mixture of questions you should know the answer to(40-60% of the test) and then the remaining MCQ's come out of left field. Now, we complained about the test not being structured and so they restructured the exam. Now, we know when we are answering Structure, Function, Clinical, and Behavioral questions. It helped a little, but overall, the MCQ exam has littler bearing on our grades so most don't care if they do well or not on the exam.

2. T3's and P3's are probably the most effective exams at our school because they TRULY test your analytical and reasoning skills. Granted, you will, in most instances get a facilitator that is going to rip you apart no matter how well you've prepared; however, All but one time, my experiences have been positive. P3's are even more effective because they test our diagnostic skills. I have no complaints in this area.

3. COMBOT's are probably the most useless exams. They are extremely hard to study for and usually cannot cover the amount of material the student has covered over the first half of the semester properly. Again, the COMBOT and MCQ exams matter very little. In fact, you can score ~50% on both of these exams and still earn straight A's.

4. The grading system is complicated, but if you have the math skills of an 8th grader you can figure it out. 80%=A, 65-79%B, etc. Freshman class is different--> 85%=A, etc.

5. The Head and Neck Anatomy course was hands down one of the best courses we've taken at this school. It was well organized and extremely pertinent and valuable. The course is hard to get an A in but still manageable. I believe 2-3 students have to remediate with the freshman class the following year.

6. Amalgam for our class was disorganized in the beginning because the leadership was changing. Once the leadership team (i.e. course director chosen) the course ran fairly smooth. We took ~10 exams (5 preparation exams and 5 condensing exams), a class project, two written exams and one make-up exam (if you were sick, didn't do as well as you would have liked to do, etc).

7. Composite was well-structured and fairly straight-forward. Our course director was very good with organizing the lectures, providing us with manuals for both anterior and posterior bonded restorations. We had 4 exams, (2 preparations -- circumscribe caires by .65mm, extensions, etc and two restoration exams -- including a full peg lateral build-up), a project, two written exams and two make-up exams. I'm sure the course would have been much harder if you were remediating amalgam at the same time.

8. Pediatrics was organized efficiently. We had a good manual (granted we didn't get it until the 4th week of an 8 week course). We had residents for each section teaching the course as well as the Director of the Pedo. Residency heading the course.

9. Perio has been a good course. It was pretty boring over the summer because they walk you through the whole probing, exploring, scaling and root planing, but it was nice to have a chance to work on your student partner every other week in the clinic during your first year. 2nd trimester perio is great because you get your own patients, don't have to worry about chairs, booking patients, etc. All you need to do is find a patient and make sure you get them there on Tuesday morning. You have requirements that need to be completed to get out of soph. perio block and into the clinic. The faculty can be a bit hard nosed, but overall, my experience has been positive. We also have lectures, workshops and training sessions for various perio applications.

10. Endodontics is a really awesome course! This is one of my favorite courses to date. The residents and faculty are all very helpful. There are a lot of tedious steps and endo may not be the most exciting thing, but for me it's been really cool. I'm only two weeks in, so I don't have much else to add.

11. Posterior fixed is posterior fixed. It is tough, and long. Doing crown preps that take 4 hrs is not fun. On Mondays we have ~2-3 faculty for 72 students (not a good faculty:student ratio). On Thursdays we have approximately 2 faculty and 1 TA for 24 students... better but not great. It is difficult sometimes to get someone to look at your work and let you know what you're doing right and where you suck. Traditionally, this is the hardest course.

12. The organization and efficiency at our school ranges from good to almost non-existent. Academic Affairs our first year didn't have two sticks to rub together. This year (D2) they've been better but not great. My experience with the clinic (Perio) has been fine. I've always been able to get a chair and get my SIP, Phys. Eval checked efficiently, but there are other students who have waited for an hour to get thing checked.

13. Facilitators range from EXCELLENT to "why are you facilitating my group?" I've some amazing facilitators that are extremely intelligent that have really helped me learn the subjects I needed to for the case. Others, have been really crumby and were not helpful AT ALL.

14. Our facilities are good but not amazing. We are getting new clinic in the next few months (starting). We have a nice SIM lab. Our specialty clinics are nice. Our lecture halls are in shambles (literally some of the chairs are broken in half) and our campus is beautiful.

15. Our administration is getting better. Dean Abelson (also clinical director) is a very motivated man. He a tremendous asset to our school. He is make improvements slowly but surely. Other administrators you hardly ever deal with.

16. We do well on the boards and we do well on the WREBS (96% pass rate I believe). Our student body is diverse and for the most part motivated.

17. We have amazing outreach programs like Mobile Clinic, Ayuda and the group that has been organizing trips to Honduras (Humanitarian Group). We have the IV Sedation Team (1.5 years with Dr. Malamed training to be IV sedation certified). We have an esthetics selective, OMFS selective, Pedo selective, etc.

18. We have tremendous faculty that you can do research if you're interested.

19. We have great specialty programs that have an open door policy for our dental students.

20. We have a lot of empty chairs in the clinic and apparently a lack of patients for some students, while other students manage to finish 3 months early (go figure). Some of the operatories don't work... which is pathetic (will be changed with the renovation of the dental clinic).

21. Students in the clinic hate the fact that we have designated sections for Fixed, Restorative, Endo, Perio, etc. This is the reason why so many sections are not filled each day (i.e. most students do operative, fixed, and perio and not enough removeable, and whatever else). This will all be removed once the clinic is renovated. The clinic will be broken up into group practices instead. You will be assigned to a group practice and you will do all your work there, aside from endo which sometimes requires a scope.

Listen, I can go on forever why USC is a fine dental school, but it still won't change the perception of it around here, which is completely fine. Like I said before, nothing is more frustrating then to see people throw USC under the bus when something bad happens. There are many wonderful things to appreciate here, some students need to open their eyes.

 

[Black Teeth]

I got one patient from my junior and the rest I went and got on my own. If you want to be spoon fed eveything here you won't get done.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you unknowlingly and inadvertently supported seansk's position on the issue. If you have to find the MAJORITY of your own patients in order to fulfill graduation requirements, then that is a HUGE PROBLEM with the dental school!!! That is a problem that logically leads directly to lower graduation rates. It should be a dental school's obligation to provide its students with patients. That's why it is a school. A school cannot be effective if it does not provide its students with all the essential tools to help them become competent dentists and that includes providing the patients! That having been said, I would disagree that it would be spoon feeding for a dental school to have to provide its students with patients. Dental schools should at the very minimum provide the patients. Students already have to pay for the dental equipment. If they have to provide the patient too then what the heck does the dental school do? Every other patient based professional school such as medicine feels it is their obligation to do so and dentistry is not an exception. Dental students who pay for their education have a right to get what they pay for. An even if USC is trying really hard to provide it's students with patients, if students have to resort to finding their own patients then USC is still failing at it's obligation in that regard. Don't forget the whole point of this thread. The whole point of this thread is why predents should or should not choose USC over other dental schools. Why should predents choose USC when there are many other dental schools that are able to adequately provide their dental students with all the patients they need? The key word in the last sentence being "able". Why should any predent pay more for less? If you can answer this question effectively, then you will go a long way in supporting your position that USC would be a good choice and you will probably win over everyone who is interested in this thread.

Or maybe I just misunderstood your post. Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[Columbia07]

Please correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like you unknowlingly and inadvertently supported seansk’s position on the issue. If you have to find the MAJORITY of your own patients in order to fulfill graduation requirements, then that is a HUGE PROBLEM with the dental school!!! That is a problem that logically leads directly to lower graduation rates. It should be a dental school’s obligation to provide its students with patients. That’s why it is a school. A school cannot be effective if it does not provide its students with all the essential tools to help them become competent dentists and that includes providing the patients! That having been said, I would disagree that it would be spoon feeding for a dental school to have to provide its students with patients. Dental schools should at the very minimum provide the patients. Students already have to pay for the dental equipment. If they have to provide the patient too then what the heck does the dental school do? Every other patient based professional school such as medicine feels it is their obligation to do so and dentistry is not an exception. Dental students who pay for their education have a right to get what they pay for. Don’t forget the whole point of this thread. The whole point of this thread is why predents should or should not choose USC over other dental schools. Why should predents choose USC when there are many other dental schools that can adequately provide their dental students with all the patients they need? Why should any predent pay more for less? If you can answer this question effectively, then you will go a long way in supporting your position that USC would be a good choice and you will probably win over everyone who is interested in this thread.

Or maybe I just misunderstood your post. Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

--This is my own personal experience. Perio. patients are easy to come by. There are at least 5-8 e-mails everyday from juniors and seniors asking if anyone can do a prophy, maintenance, sc/rp, etc. I don't know about fixed or other requirements. What puzzles me is that some students can finish MONTHS ahead of schedule while some students seem to NEVER get the right patients. And our school supplies us with patients, granted some students get more than others (not sure why).

 

[youngmc27]

Please correct me if I’m wrong but it sounds like you unknowlingly and inadvertently supported seansk’s position on the issue. If you have to find the MAJORITY of your own patients in order to fulfill graduation requirements, then that is a HUGE PROBLEM with the dental school!!! That is a problem that logically leads directly to lower graduation rates. It should be a dental school’s obligation to provide its students with patients. That’s why it is a school. A school cannot be effective if it does not provide its students with all the essential tools to help them become competent dentists and that includes providing the patients! That having been said, I would disagree that it would be spoon feeding for a dental school to have to provide its students with patients. Dental schools should at the very minimum provide the patients. Students already have to pay for the dental equipment. If they have to provide the patient too then what the heck does the dental school do? Every other patient based professional school such as medicine feels it is their obligation to do so and dentistry is not an exception. Dental students who pay for their education have a right to get what they pay for. An even if USC is trying really hard to provide it's students with patients, if students have to resort to finding their own patients then USC is still failing at it's obligation in that regard. Don’t forget the whole point of this thread. The whole point of this thread is why predents should or should not choose USC over other dental schools. Why should predents choose USC when there are many other dental schools that are able to adequately provide their dental students with all the patients they need? The key word in the last sentence being "able". Why should any predent pay more for less? If you can answer this question effectively, then you will go a long way in supporting your position that USC would be a good choice and you will probably win over everyone who is interested in this thread.

Or maybe I just misunderstood your post. Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

I am not sure how the clinic works in regards to patients other than the perio clinic. I was simply saying that I got one patient from my junior and the other patients I had to ask around a bit to upperclassmen. It took a little work to get the patients from other upperclassmen because my junior didn't have what I needed so I asked other upperclassmen. I didn't have to go out on the street and find them sorry if that is the confusion. I know that USC has problems, there is no denying that but every school has problems. I see threads on here all the time about "don't go to NYU or Indiana or Nova or any other number of schools. I just think that it is wrong for people to think that we are inferior here or our education is not as good as some other school we learn what will make us competent dentists that are capable of doing what needs to be done to help patients and have a successful career.

 

[Danny289]

question for Columbia07 and youngmc27: you really think somebody has other choises rather than USC will choose USC over other schools?

 

[JessD]

I am not sure how the clinic works in regards to patients other than the perio clinic. I was simply saying that I got one patient from my junior and the other patients I had to ask around a bit to upperclassmen. It took a little work to get the patients from other upperclassmen because my junior didn't have what I needed so I asked other upperclassmen. I didn't have to go out on the street and find them sorry if that is the confusion. I know that USC has problems, there is no denying that but every school has problems. I see threads on here all the time about "don't go to NYU or Indiana or Nova or any other number of schools. I just think that it is wrong for people to think that we are inferior here or our education is not as good as some other school we learn what will make us competent dentists that are capable of doing what needs to be done to help patients and have a successful career.

I have been on this forum for about two years and honestly I have never seen NYU, Indiana, Nova or any other school's students post a thread like this! USC is the only school with negative posts and these posts are written by USC stuents not predents asking us not to go there! I am sure there is something wrong there that at least 50% of students are not happy! It seems like there are some VERY bitter feelings towards USC by current upperclassmen. The bottom line is for predents USC is a last choice because of high cost of attendance and negativity around the school.

 

[Black Teeth]

I am not sure how the clinic works in regards to patients other than the perio clinic. I was simply saying that I got one patient from my junior and the other patients I had to ask around a bit to upperclassmen. It took a little work to get the patients from other upperclassmen because my junior didn't have what I needed so I asked other upperclassmen. I didn't have to go out on the street and find them sorry if that is the confusion. I know that USC has problems, there is no denying that but every school has problems. I see threads on here all the time about "don't go to NYU or Indiana or Nova or any other number of schools. I just think that it is wrong for people to think that we are inferior here or our education is not as good as some other school we learn what will make us competent dentists that are capable of doing what needs to be done to help patients and have a successful career.

Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood your post. I was under the impression that you had to go recruit your own patients off the street which you stated is not so. In that case, it would seem that as far as the patient pool is concerned, USC has only a minor problem which many dental school across the country are having as well. I don't think any dental school is perfect in that regard.

 

[condoleezarice]

I have been on this forum for about two years and honestly I have never seen NYU, Indiana, Nova or any other school's students post a thread like this! USC is the only school with negative posts and these posts are written by USC stuents not predents asking us not to go there! I am sure there is something wrong there that at least 50% of students are not happy! It seems like there are some VERY bitter feelings towards USC by current upperclassmen. The bottom line is for predents USC is a last choice because of high cost of attendance and negativity around the school.

Indiana still has a generally bad rap on these forums. NYU seems to have a lot of happy students posting on this board. I guess a lot has changed there since the UCSF dean took over.

USC is the only school that has consistently gotten a bad rap at this volume though..

 

[gryffindor]

I have been on this forum for about two years and honestly I have never seen NYU, Indiana, Nova or any other school's students post a thread like this! USC is the only school with negative posts and these posts are written by USC stuents not predents asking us not to go there! I am sure there is something wrong there that at least 50% of students are not happy! It seems like there are some VERY bitter feelings towards USC by current upperclassmen. The bottom line is for predents USC is a last choice because of high cost of attendance and negativity around the school.

You haven't been around long enough. NYU, BU, Columbia, UConn and others have taken a beat down around here at one point or another. It just happens to be USC's turn right now.

 

[youngmc27]

I have been on this forum for about two years and honestly I have never seen NYU, Indiana, Nova or any other school's students post a thread like this! USC is the only school with negative posts and these posts are written by USC stuents not predents asking us not to go there! I am sure there is something wrong there that at least 50% of students are not happy! It seems like there are some VERY bitter feelings towards USC by current upperclassmen. The bottom line is for predents USC is a last choice because of high cost of attendance and negativity around the school.

You may want to try some of these threads. Along with many many more.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7351955
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-263152.html
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=418107&highlight=nova+problems

 

[youngmc27]

Indiana still has a generally bad rap on these forums. NYU seems to have a lot of happy students posting on this board. I guess a lot has changed there since the UCSF dean took over.

USC is the only school that has consistently gotten a bad rap at this volume though..

USC is not the only one that has a bad rap around here check your one post you said Indiana as well. There are countless others that you can find by doing a simple search.

 

[youngmc27]

question for Columbia07 and youngmc27: you really think somebody has other choises rather than USC will choose USC over other schools?

I know a lot of other students that had multiple acceptances and all choose USC for one reason or another. It happens every year and it will continue to happen.

 

[condoleezarice]

USC is not the only one that has a bad rap around here check your one post you said Indiana as well. There are countless others that you can find by doing a simple search.

It's the only one with a bad rap "at this volume" was what I said.

I've read a lot here so far: Generally, Columbia and NYU have gotten a lot of props and happy students on the board lately(past few years). UConn had a period of a few months where some people were ragging on it, but it hasn't come up since(and I think those people were bitter since they were kicked out or something)

Indiana still gets complained about some. But, USC has gotten bashed on every cycle in big amounts.

 

[seansk]

It has been a good discussion here. Although it may get heated at times, I think it benefits all people to look and research further into any school they are going to. I mean after all this is going to be your career for the rest of your life.

I hope people look on both sides of the discussions here both mine and columbia07's. It's always wise to listen but also do your own research, find out for yourself whatever school you are going to, not just USC. Whatever firs YOU is the one you should go to.

Be aware of all the goods and bads. Everyone's decisions ultimately is not solely based on the school itself. People have family, kids, and other obligations. And perhaps those are much more important to them than any other thing.

I know my posts here might have sometimes gotten a little furious or rant like, and I apologize. But my ultimate goal is to provide more information to people on this forum.

I remember when I was applying, this forum would stress the heck out of me, but it also provided me with an eye opening experience.

If you are seriously considering going to USC or any other school for that matter, PLEASE PLEASE, go to those school, visit them, Find out FOR YOURSELF if it is where you want to go.

This is my last post on this thread, I believed I have provided more than enough for this thread. The rest is up to you!!!

I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Columbia07]

It has been a good discussion here. Although it may get heated at times, I think it benefits all people to look and research further into any school they are going to. I mean after all this is going to be your career for the rest of your life.

I hope people look on both sides of the discussions here both mine and columbia07's. It's always wise to listen but also do your own research, find out for yourself whatever school you are going to, not just USC. Whatever firs YOU is the one you should go to.

Be aware of all the goods and bads. Everyone's decisions ultimately is not solely based on the school itself. People have family, kids, and other obligations. And perhaps those are much more important to them than any other thing.

I know my posts here might have sometimes gotten a little furious or rant like, and I apologize. But my ultimate goal is to provide more information to people on this forum.

I remember when I was applying, this forum would stress the heck out of me, but it also provided me with an eye opening experience.

If you are seriously considering going to USC or any other school for that matter, PLEASE PLEASE, go to those school, visit them, Find out FOR YOURSELF if it is where you want to go.

This is my last post on this thread, I believed I have provided more than enough for this thread. The rest is up to you!!!

I wish you all the best of luck.

--It's been good buddy. I wish you all the success in the clinic.

--Good luck to everyone! Now, back to Part 1 studying... can't wait to crush this beast.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

--It's been good buddy. I wish you all the success in the clinic.

--Good luck to everyone! Now, back to Part 1 studying... can't wait to crush this beast.

hey good luck, try getting those old exams from UCLA students just kidding