don't know how to raise stats

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fakebun

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Hey guys

My sGPA is 2.4 and my oGPA is 2.9. After graduating from UCLA I went to SDSU for a year for their informal postbac, but it's so informal that it's not for me. I ended up wasting a year and took only 3 classes that I did bad (pre-reqs) and I got all As. I don't know whether I should apply for SMPs or just take more classes at a 4 year university. Since my GPA is too low, I doubt any SMPs will take me. Do I take some classes from a 4 year and then apply to SMP or do I just stay and take a lot of classes at a 4 year and apply to dschool. Which is the fastest way?

UC irvine and Cal State Fullerton are close to where I live. If I were to take classes where should I take them from?

Thank you
 
fakebun said:
Hey guys

My sGPA is 2.4 and my oGPA is 2.9. After graduating from UCLA I went to SDSU for a year for their informal postbac, but it's so informal that it's not for me. I ended up wasting a year and took only 3 classes that I did bad (pre-reqs) and I got all As. I don't know whether I should apply for SMPs or just take more classes at a 4 year university. Since my GPA is too low, I doubt any SMPs will take me. Do I take some classes from a 4 year and then apply to SMP or do I just stay and take a lot of classes at a 4 year and apply to dschool. Which is the fastest way?

UC irvine and Cal State Fullerton are close to where I live. If I were to take classes where should I take them from?

Thank you
Click to expand...

I think any way you do it is not going to be fast. It's going to take a lot of classes to bring that GPA up, and even after that, you're still going to have to explain how you managed to have such a low undergraduate GPA if you get interviews.

I would suggest trying to do a masters.
 
ya... I guess my best bet is to take more ugrad classes until I can apply for SMPs and then do SMP for better chances?
 
Just take it where has more class availability,then cost. I'm guessing SDSU is quarter system and you got 3 classes in a year so 1 class per quarter average? Are you working?
A is good but not if its full load unless you are full time working.
Try to make at least 3 classes per quarter (I believe it's mininum to be as a full time student). 4~5 would be ideal of upper div bio classes. Then raise the sgpa up to at least 3.0, kill the DAT then apply early as possible
 
fakebun said:
Hey guys

My sGPA is 2.4 and my oGPA is 2.9. After graduating from UCLA I went to SDSU for a year for their informal postbac, but it's so informal that it's not for me. I ended up wasting a year and took only 3 classes that I did bad (pre-reqs) and I got all As. I don't know whether I should apply for SMPs or just take more classes at a 4 year university. Since my GPA is too low, I doubt any SMPs will take me. Do I take some classes from a 4 year and then apply to SMP or do I just stay and take a lot of classes at a 4 year and apply to dschool. Which is the fastest way?

UC irvine and Cal State Fullerton are close to where I live. If I were to take classes where should I take them from?

Thank you
Click to expand...

I have no experience with masters.... but if you search around SDN long enough, you'll find a sprinkle of students here and there with low undergrad GPAs (like your 2.4) who still struggle to land interviews even after getting near 4.0 in masters

Like Maygyver suggested, your going to need ALOT of time and money to fix your application. It could take you a post-bacc (to bring the 2.4 to around 3.0-ish) AND THEN maybe a masters.... I don't know.... Are you sure you are up to what could be the most challenging task of your life?
 
dentalWorks said:
Like Maygyver suggested, your going to need ALOT of time and money to fix your application. It could take you a post-bacc (to bring the 2.4 to around 3.0-ish) AND THEN maybe a masters.... I don't know.... Are you sure you are up to what could be the most challenging task of your life?
Click to expand...

This for sure. I have some experience with taking a master's with a low ugrad gpa. I think that a master's alone wouldn't cut it for you yet. Take undergrad classes for 1-2 years, aim to get your gpa's to 3.0 or better, then go for 1-2 years (certificate or master's) of graduate school.

It is also a fine idea to go speak with your closest dental school advisor, ask what you need to do to get in from where you are. The advisor at my school spelled out exactly what he wanted me to do.
 
Okay Thanks a lot guys

UCLA doesn't have individual counseling and I was wondering if I could talk to pre-health counselor at UCI or fullerton, if they have one.

Does it matter where I take my classes? Or as long as I can take 3-4/quarter or semester and Ace them. What sort of classes should I take?

Lastly, my sGPA is 2.65, BCP is 2.62, nonscience is 3.28, and oGPA is 2.85 (these are from AADSAS GPA calculation) with around 100 hours (units). How many years of 3-4 classes do you guys think I need to raise my sGPA to a 3? I suppose it's only the sGPA that counts, not oGPA.
 
Take the classes at a 4 year college. Try this...

1) Finish the next semester strong with a good credit load (15+)
2) Apply to master programs
3) If rejected, go back to step 1 and repeat; If accepted, go to the masters program and OWN it
4) apply and have some hope. You can do anything you put your mind to. Good luck my friend.
 
fakebun said:
Okay Thanks a lot guys

UCLA doesn't have individual counseling and I was wondering if I could talk to pre-health counselor at UCI or fullerton, if they have one.

Does it matter where I take my classes? Or as long as I can take 3-4/quarter or semester and Ace them. What sort of classes should I take?

Lastly, my sGPA is 2.65, BCP is 2.62, nonscience is 3.28, and oGPA is 2.85 (these are from AADSAS GPA calculation) with around 100 hours (units). How many years of 3-4 classes do you guys think I need to raise my sGPA to a 3? I suppose it's only the sGPA that counts, not oGPA.
Click to expand...

100 credits for what? the overall or the science?

And to answer the "Does it matter where I take my classes?".... I wouldn't touch community college classes if thats what you were referring to.

If your going to do post-bacc first, upper level biology courses are your best (and only) option. These include Biochemistries (1, 2, and lab), Microbiology, Physiology, Genetics, Immunology, Pharmacology, Anatomy, etc etc
 
@Floss Your Teeth: Thx man

@dentalworks: On the AADSAS GPA calculation, it said 100 for hours, I don't know how many units that is. As for where to take my classes... I won't goto CC for sure, but I don't know if it's okay to take classes from a state school like Cal State Fullerton rather than UC Irvine. Pretty much I just have to take all upper div bio classes that pertain to medical field. Since Cal State is semester, think 15+ units of As will bump my sGPA up by 0.4? Is it really absolutely unforgiving if you have a B from those classes?
 
fakebun said:
@Floss Your Teeth: Thx man

@dentalworks: On the AADSAS GPA calculation, it said 100 for hours, I don't know how many units that is. As for where to take my classes... I won't goto CC for sure, but I don't know if it's okay to take classes from a state school like Cal State Fullerton rather than UC Irvine. Pretty much I just have to take all upper div bio classes that pertain to medical field. Since Cal State is semester, think 15+ units of As will bump my sGPA up by 0.4? Is it really absolutely unforgiving if you have a B from those classes?
Click to expand...

do you mean this column?
2h7noex.jpg


Yes, those are credits. Which category is the 100 towards? (BCP, Science, Non-science, or Total?)

I don't know if 15 credits of solid A's will bring the sGPA by 0.4 (I need to know how many science credits you have first lol). When You said 100, I don't know if you were referring to Science or Total (if science, you will need ALOT more than 15 credits to go 2.65 --> 3.00)
 
fakebun said:
Okay Thanks a lot guys

UCLA doesn't have individual counseling and I was wondering if I could talk to pre-health counselor at UCI or fullerton, if they have one.

Does it matter where I take my classes? Or as long as I can take 3-4/quarter or semester and Ace them. What sort of classes should I take?

Lastly, my sGPA is 2.65, BCP is 2.62, nonscience is 3.28, and oGPA is 2.85 (these are from AADSAS GPA calculation) with around 100 hours (units). How many years of 3-4 classes do you guys think I need to raise my sGPA to a 3? I suppose it's only the sGPA that counts, not oGPA.
Click to expand...

You need 54 hours of A's in order to bring your overall GPA to 3.25 (or .4 points)

15 more hours of A's will bring your overall GPA to exactly a 3.0. This is a good place to begin applying to special masters programs like I mentioned earlier. Good luck.
 
dentalWorks said:
Like Maygyver suggested, your going to need ALOT of time and money to fix your application. It could take you a post-bacc (to bring the 2.4 to around 3.0-ish) AND THEN maybe a masters.... I don't know.... Are you sure you are up to what could be the most challenging task of your life?
Click to expand...

I think this is pretty solid advice... It's probably going to take you a minimum of 2-3 years to get your GPA up to a 3.0, however (and not trying to be a dick here) 3.0 is still not that respectable of a GPA. It is acceptable if the rest of your application is awesome. You are going to need to slaughter the DAT and have solid LORs, ECs, etc.

If i were personally in your position i would do a year of postbac courses, then see where you are at. You could then evaluate your GPA and position, then decide to do another year of postbac or enroll in a MS program.

Also a side note on SMPs.... Although they are a good option for many, there are several things to consider. For one they are pretty expensive... i know MWU MA in Biomedical Sciences is around 35K. Plus tack on living expenses, because you can't work in a rigorous program like that. Also, if the SMP doesn't work out, your job options are fairly limited with such a wierd/specialized masters.

Best of Luck!! 😀😀😀
 
Does having an upward trend beneficial? I called UOP and they said they understand that people make mistakes and therefore they'll look at the last two years of full time classes. I'm sure they don't look at the last two years exclusively, but some schools may be understanding as to it's very hard to raise ugrad GPA up to 3.5?

But besides that, since the only comment about where to take classes is "not to take it at CC", does that mean I can take those classes at cal state fullerton? Do I take all upper div bio classes its offered? Or only those that are somewhat medical related? Is it too much to ask you guys for help to compile a list of classes that I should take? Other than the previously mentioned anatomy, microbio, biochem.

I'm applying to some SMPs now. If I do get in, do I just go or should I still do a year of postbac first?


*note*
I have 80.36 hours in BCP, 93.70 in Science, 44.67 in nonscience, and 138.37 in overall.
 
were you already a bio major? u have quite a few bio credits already but w/e
take classes like- histology, anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, cell bio, microbio, virology, comparative, neuro, immunology, genetics, developmental bio....etc....?
 
fakebun said:
Does having an upward trend beneficial? I called UOP and they said they understand that people make mistakes and therefore they'll look at the last two years of full time classes. I'm sure they don't look at the last two years exclusively, but some schools may be understanding as to it's very hard to raise ugrad GPA up to 3.5?

But besides that, since the only comment about where to take classes is "not to take it at CC", does that mean I can take those classes at cal state fullerton? Do I take all upper div bio classes its offered? Or only those that are somewhat medical related? Is it too much to ask you guys for help to compile a list of classes that I should take? Other than the previously mentioned anatomy, microbio, biochem.

I'm applying to some SMPs now. If I do get in, do I just go or should I still do a year of postbac first?


*note*
I have 80.36 hours in BCP, 93.70 in Science, 44.67 in nonscience, and 138.37 in overall.
Click to expand...

dang... 93 credits of Science is going to need alot to fix.

as bing12 suggested, you'll need about 40 more credits to bring it to 3.0 (so about 2 VERY heavy undergrad semesters, or 3 ligher ones).... Thats about a year and half worth of post-bacc.

Assuming you can 4.0 all those 40 credits, you might not need to do a masters cause thats impressive by itself.... I don't like to substitute DAT for GPA but it seems like your next best, shortest, and cheapest option is to aim at a high DAT (22TS+).... Otherwise, masters it is.

The problem now is... do you have enough classes to still take to cover 40 post-bacc credits? Heres a potential list:
-Biochemistry 1, 2, and lab
-Physiology
-Microbiology
-Molecular Biology
-Cell biology
-Anatomy (and if lab, do that too)
-Pharmacology
-Immunology
-Pathology
-Genetics
-Endocrinology
-Histology

okay, I am running out of courses
 
Thank you for the list dentalworks.

However, I don't know if cal state offers endocrinology and histology and any of that sort. I have done Biochem 1 and lab. Should I retake the lecture? I called UCLA before and they said I shouldn't worry about a C in a 1 unit class (the lab). Should I just take the lecture portion of all those classes unless lab is a must?

Sadly, I've had problems with developmental biology and genetics. I just find those 2 classes very hard... I'm afraid I will not get an A...
 
You should sit down and speak to an academic adviser, and tell them the possible options you are considering. Your situation is complex and will take a very long time to remedy. If you are willing to spend several years trying to fix your situtation for the possibility of gaining admissions to a Dental School, then you have a GREAT deal of hard work ahead of you.

If you dont think you can get straight A's with 40 credits, I suggest to look into other health professions in case you decide dentistry to be a bit overwhelming ( to overcome the 2.4 in science gpa).

Either way, I wish you luck, you seem like you are very interesting in cleaning up your previous poor academic history, and that is a great start.

This is the thread " The under 3.0 Club".
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=362708
 
is it absolutely unforgiving if I don't get all As in my postbac classes? I'm looking through cal sate fullerton's website to see if they have an academic adviser for dental.
 
fakebun said:
is it absolutely unforgiving if I don't get all As in my postbac classes? I'm looking through cal sate fullerton's website to see if they have an academic adviser for dental.
Click to expand...

use the link I gave you in my previous thread on the GPA CALCULATOR. I ran a simulation, if you had 20 credits of A's, and 20 Credits of A-'s, with 94 credits of a 2.4 sgpa. That will increase it to a 2.8328. if you had 30 credits of straight A's, and 10 credits of A-'s : you get a sgpa of : 2.8552

Yea, I suggest you call up many Dental Schools and explain your situation, see what they have to say. Some schools that were helpful for my individual questions were Case Western and ASDOH. those 2 schools I know are fairly helpful with any question you may have. I am not too familiar with the other schools, oh Temple might also be fairly helpful. So call them, explain to them all the credits you have, your different gpa's , and what you are thinking of doing this and any other question you may have.
 
Is it possible that I can't find 40 semester units worth of classes? Excluding the ones I've taken before
 
fakebun said:
Is it possible that I can't find 40 semester units worth of classes? Excluding the ones I've taken before
Click to expand...

That is the biggest dilema. You will most likely have to do some sort of masters, but getting into one with your gpa might be difficult. But your overall is not that bad, a 2.9 can be brought up with some work. I think you should look into some master programs:

I believe most these programs require the DAT, but I may be mistaken.Call these schools up and find out more information. Overall: do ALOT of calling.haha. Find out as much as you can, write down what the schools say, and then bring it back to SDN and we can try to give you better advice.

1) Barry : http://www.barry.edu/bms/Default.asp

2) Boston: http://www.bumc.bu.edu/gms/academics/masters-in-medical-sciences/

3) Western : http://prospective.westernu.edu/medical-sciences/welcome

4) Tulane : http://tulane.edu/sse/cmb/msfaqs.cfm
 
fakebun said:
Thank you for the list dentalworks.

However, I don't know if cal state offers endocrinology and histology and any of that sort. I have done Biochem 1 and lab. Should I retake the lecture? I called UCLA before and they said I shouldn't worry about a C in a 1 unit class (the lab). Should I just take the lecture portion of all those classes unless lab is a must?

Sadly, I've had problems with developmental biology and genetics. I just find those 2 classes very hard... I'm afraid I will not get an A...
Click to expand...

Yes, the list (the one I apparently Plagiarized from Molar3 😛) is not for the lighthearted. Your gonna have to work harder than you've ever done to ace those classes.

I'd be very surprised if any school with a biology department doesn't offer histology... its basically anatomy at the cellular/tissue level, very popular pre-health course.

As far as retaking Biochem goes, I dunno if you need to do that, you said you got a C in the lab, but what about the class? What about Biochem 2?

In order to cover 40 upper division biology credits, you will need to take approx 10-12 classes. If UCLA doesn't offer enough classes, take whatever they have (or everything you haven't taken so far), and then switch over to another university.

I admire what your trying to do, but you need to be realistic, you getting into dental school will require alot of effort, money, time, and a little bit of luck.... Are you up to it? Its okay if your not, I am sure there are a few members around who can give you suggestions to other healthcare fields that... are pretty good (never as good as dentistry 😀 ~ but close enough)

There is one thing I wanna suggest to you, but you need to be VERY careful. You can apply to Caribbean medical schools. Here is why you need to be very cautious: chances are they will accept you, and thier level of education is like any other professional system; alot of material in a very short time period. They don't care if you pass/fail, all they care about is your tuition money. You need to be certain that you can handle that kind of heavy curriculum, or you'll end up flunking out and loosing thousands of dollars without a degree.

So either way you go, I think post-bacc (and/or masters) are a good option, you will at least develop better studying habits... so if you applied to dental schools and didn't make it, the Caribbean option is always open (this is ofc assuming you are okay with medicine)

all the best
 
I found this awesome excel spreadsheet ( mainly because I have plenty of friends interested in medicine, so I try to help them out by reading the pre-med forum here and there).

The main idea of these rough statistics is that, the Carribean students match 50% of the time. This is a huge risk that you would take. That means 50% have not matched into a residency yet. Obviously there are better schools and worse schools in the Caribbean, but I would be very careful if I were you. I think a profession that is similar to dentistry ( in regards to the admissions accepting the DAT at TEMPLE and NY podiatry) is podiatry.
 

Attachments

I don't think I'll consider caribbean for sure.

So here is my plan...

1. Take 1 physiology class during summer (iono if i should take the lab too)
2. Take 4 classes during fall semester
3. 4 more spring semester
4. apply to dschool and masters

Does this sound like a start for the coming school year? I wonder if schools will be like "hey upward trend on hard classes" haha. It sucks that I put myself in this spot with irreparable damage. I've had some experience with state school and it is definitely easier than the same class offered at UCLA. Hopefully that will help me with my goal of straight As
 
bing12 said:
I found this awesome excel spreadsheet ( mainly because I have plenty of friends interested in medicine, so I try to help them out by reading the pre-med forum here and there).

The main idea of these rough statistics is that, the Carribean students match 50% of the time. This is a huge risk that you would take. That means 50% have not matched into a residency yet. Obviously there are better schools and worse schools in the Caribbean, but I would be very careful if I were you. I think a profession that is similar to dentistry ( in regards to the admissions accepting the DAT at TEMPLE and NY podiatry) is podiatry.
Click to expand...

bing

Is the 50% for all carrib med schools (all 30+)? or is it only for the "big 4" ?

I think if you limit it to only the 4 major ones (SGU, ross, Saba, and AUC), the percentage goes up quite high.... Most of them end up in Primary care (internal, family, peds, or obgy) but hey, a Dr. is better than nothing.
 
fakebun said:
I don't think I'll consider caribbean for sure.

So here is my plan...

1. Take 1 physiology class during summer (iono if i should take the lab too)
2. Take 4 classes during fall semester
3. 4 more spring semester
4. apply to dschool and masters

Does this sound like a start for the coming school year? I wonder if schools will be like "hey upward trend on hard classes" haha. It sucks that I put myself in this spot with irreparable damage. I've had some experience with state school and it is definitely easier than the same class offered at UCLA. Hopefully that will help me with my goal of straight As
Click to expand...

sounds like a decent plan.... IMO I think you should take the physiology lab, I know labs are annoying but at this point, you need to stack up all the science credits you can get your hands on.

But yeh, if you see a state school offering better/more classes than UCLA, then by all means, switch over.
 
dentalWorks said:
bing

Is the 50% for all carrib med schools (all 30+)? or is it only for the "big 4" ?

I think if you limit it to only the 4 major ones (SGU, ross, Saba, and AUC), the percentage goes up quite high.... Most of them end up in Primary care (internal, family, peds, or obgy) but hey, a Dr. is better than nothing.
Click to expand...

I am assuming its all the Caribbean schools, yea I would assume the major schools have a far higher percentage. And yea, most of them do end up in primary care.
 
But labs are only 1 unit... even if I get an A it wouldn't do much would it? I will call some of my favorite schools and see what they think on labs
 
fakebun said:
But labs are only 1 unit... even if I get an A it wouldn't do much would it? I will call some of my favorite schools and see what they think on labs
Click to expand...

Take classes and labs. Problem solved.
 
fakebun said:
But labs are only 1 unit... even if I get an A it wouldn't do much would it? I will call some of my favorite schools and see what they think on labs
Click to expand...

That shouldn't be an issue for you. You need as many credits as possible with As.
 
I see.... okay I'll take it. I'm just kind of scared...

by the way. the courses that dentalworks listed have a few classes that I have already taken. Should I retake them or pick other classes?

I don't know if virology is any helpful... but that is the only class that's not on the list but CSU offers and CSU doesn't offer pharmacology, histology, and endocrinology.
 
Last edited:
fakebun said:
I see.... okay I'll take it. I'm just kind of scared...

by the way. the courses that dentalworks listed have a few classes that I have already taken. Should I retake them or pick other classes?

I don't know if virology is any helpful... but that is the only class that's not on the list but CSU offers and CSU doesn't offer pharmacology, histology, and endocrinology.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't retake classes. I would start by taking new classes. With how low your GPA is, you are just going to need to take whatever science classes you can to be honest.
 
fakebun said:
I see.... okay I'll take it. I'm just kind of scared...

by the way. the courses that dentalworks listed have a few classes that I have already taken. Should I retake them or pick other classes?

I don't know if virology is any helpful... but that is the only class that's not on the list but CSU offers and CSU doesn't offer pharmacology, histology, and endocrinology.
Click to expand...

don't be skured 😛 Be more confident in your effort. You have about 40 credits of tough love a head that basically requires a nearly perfect 4.0. Get into the right attitude

Focus on new classes first + biology courses you've earned less than a C.... These should be your priority. Once you run out of courses, I guess you can retake some of the C's and C+'s

Your currently attending CSU right? If they aren't offering what you need, time to switch to another college.
 
dentalWorks said:
don't be skured 😛 Be more confident in your effort. You have about 40 credits of tough love a head that basically requires a nearly perfect 4.0. Get into the right attitude

Focus on new classes first + biology courses you've earned less than a C.... These should be your priority. Once you run out of courses, I guess you can retake some of the C's and C+'s

Your currently attending CSU right? If they aren't offering what you need, time to switch to another college.
Click to expand...

Perfectly said. If you are scared of taking science classes, dental school might not be for you. The first two years are going to be much tougher than any undergraduate quarter/semester you have ever had.
 
Ya... I'll try my best. I'm not scared of sciences classes... just genetics
 
fakebun said:
Ya... I'll try my best. I'm not scared of sciences classes... just genetics
Click to expand...

hahahaha I speak about motivation this and motivation that... but let me tell you.... I hate genetics with passion.

Genetics and I have crossed paths, and it wasn't pretty. Tough class but the professor made it that much worse.

Those of you who went to MSU, know exactly who I am talking about... Helmut Bertrand
 
Ya thanks a lot for the motivation! It did help me, but genetic is one of my most hated class the first time I took it at UCLA.

A quick question...

CSUF has a class called BIOL 310 (upper div) Human Physiology. That sounds like a class I should take, but the pre-req says this class will not count towards biological science major (whatever that is). As an open university student, that really doesn't concern me right? As long as it's the right class and dental schools like it, those limitation only apply to the current admitted student, right?
 
Last edited:
lol I see a lot of people hate genetics here and its no easy class I must admit!

But I actually liked the class and learned a lot because we had an awesome SI (Supplemental Instruction) leader for genetics Syed Abbas who gave us lessons on weekends. He was pretty much god of teaching because he had these simple yet effective techniques to teach anything. Those that go to UTA or TCU knows what I'm talking about lol.

I remember the lac operon theory and their problems, the production of B.gel/perm in induced and noninduced was a nightmare for many ppl and I sat 30 min with him one day and god I understood it so well that I taught it to so many friends. Ofc I can't start teaching genetics here but this perticular theory if someone needs, I can explain it well on paper and upload a scan.



This link is pretty good if you are a visual learner. It has Interactive virtual labs and flash animations - http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/ (I specially like the PCR one)



dentalWorks said:
hahahaha I speak about motivation this and motivation that... but let me tell you.... I hate genetics with passion.

Genetics and I have crossed paths, and it wasn't pretty. Tough class but the professor made it that much worse.

Those of you who went to MSU, know exactly who I am talking about... Helmut Bertrand
Click to expand...
 
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