Don't want to be poor for another 10 years - good reason to go into consulting?

[hiphopapotamous]

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I go to a prestigious enough undergrad that I could possibly land a job at McKinsey, Bain, Booz, BCG, etc. (and I am a quantitative business major anyway). I really do want to be a physician, but I definitely hate the fact that I will be dirt poor until I am 30. I come from a low class family and have had to struggle with finances all my life (working jobs in high school and college). I am starting to think it might be worth it to look into other careers, even though I had been dead set on medicine for the past 4 years (taken MCAT, gotten research/clinical/volunteering experiences, ready to apply this cycle).

I realized that I really enjoy solving quantitative problems, and I like working things out in excel (as I have found from doing my independent research and other various times I have had to use excel for school). I also like analytical work, research, and like the idea of finding inefficiencies to correct them. A lot of the attributes needed to be a good ibanker/consultant are the same as the ones needed to be a good doctor (hard working attitude, strong ethics, great reasoning abilities, great communication skills, etc.).

I love taking care of sick people (as I have found out through my volunteering), and I love science, so it's not a very easy decision for me. Any input?

 

[jvesco22]

If you really come from a low-class family as you say, then you wouldn't disregard a resident salary of $50k +/- a few as being "poor." If that's the case, then you really don't know what being poor is...

 

[ILikeDrugs]

First year residents make $45-55k/year. That is not poor. Its not luxury but you'll be making about the same or more than the national average.

If you really come from a low-class family as you say, then you wouldn't disregard a resident salary of $50k +/- a few as being "poor." If that's the case, then you really don't know what being poor is...

That's what I was thinking, but then I remembered that this is pre-allo; this is a place where some consider living in a home making less than $100k/year to be on the "poor" side.

 

[TarHeelEMT]

If you really come from a low-class family as you say, then you wouldn't disregard a resident salary of $50k +/- a few as being "poor." If that's the case, then you really don't know what being poor is...

Weighed against debt load, I think it still counts as being pretty far down there. That said, it's way more than I ever made in any of my post-college jobs.

 

[cbrons]

$55,000 pre-tax is not a lot of money by any stretch of the imagination. It isn't poverty but depending upon where you go for residency (i.e. a big city where the COL and local taxes are extortionist) it is something to think about before committing to

 

[Kevin Baker]

If you really come from a low-class family as you say, then you wouldn't disregard a resident salary of $50k +/- a few as being "poor." If that's the case, then you really don't know what being poor is...

Making 50k while paying the minimum interest of 6.8% on 180k in loans (potentially a lot more), while being taxed at ~ 25%, leaves you with 25k. I'd call that pretty poor when you have 180k in loans to pay back. This isn't counting potential undergrad loans or application fees.

 

[orthomyxo]

I go to a prestigious enough undergrad that I could possibly land a job at McKinsey, Bain, Booz, BCG, etc. (and I am a quantitative business major anyway). I really do want to be a physician, but I definitely hate the fact that I will be dirt poor until I am 30. I come from a low class family and have had to struggle with finances all my life (working jobs in high school and college). I am starting to think it might be worth it to look into other careers, even though I had been dead set on medicine for the past 4 years (taken MCAT, gotten research/clinical/volunteering experiences, ready to apply this cycle).

I realized that I really enjoy solving quantitative problems, and I like working things out in excel (as I have found from doing my independent research and other various times I have had to use excel for school). I also like analytical work, research, and like the idea of finding inefficiencies to correct them. A lot of the attributes needed to be a good ibanker/consultant are the same as the ones needed to be a good doctor (hard working attitude, strong ethics, great reasoning abilities, great communication skills, etc.).

I love taking care of sick people (as I have found out through my volunteering), and I love science, so it's not a very easy decision for me. Any input?

lrn2ramennoodle

and

 

[DrBowtie]

Making 50k while paying the minimum interest of 6.8% on 180k in loans (potentially a lot more), while being taxed at ~ 25%, leaves you with 25k. I'd call that pretty poor when you have 180k in loans to pay back. This isn't counting potential undergrad loans or application fees.

Depends on where you live. Here in the south, I live like a king on my student loans ~20k living expenses.

 

[OGMD]

Making 50k while paying the minimum interest of 6.8% on 180k in loans (potentially a lot more), while being taxed at ~ 25%, leaves you with 25k. I'd call that pretty poor when you have 180k in loans to pay back. This isn't counting potential undergrad loans or application fees.

^ this

You'll see around 25k, with around 10-15k just for a cheap place to live only leaves about $1000 a month for EVERYTHING else. At 25-30 years old that is not a lot of money at all and it leaves no room for emergencies (car accidents, bills, etc).

So OP, maybe that is a decent amount of money to you, maybe it isn't (depending on how you define poor). Going into medicine means starting out 5-10 years being poor, then finishing life with a decent and steady income. Ibanking/consulting would probably start you out much more comfortably and maintain a solid income throughout.

 

[hiphopapotamous]

If you really come from a low-class family as you say, then you wouldn't disregard a resident salary of $50k +/- a few as being "poor." If that's the case, then you really don't know what being poor is...

Oh man, you're such an idiot.

If I were the only one I would have to pay for, and I didn't have 150k~ in loans, then $50k would be plenty.

 

[DrBowtie]

Oh man, you're such an idiot.

If I were the only one I would have to pay for, and I didn't have 150k~ in loans, then $50k would be plenty.

Who else would you have to pay for?

 

[hiphopapotamous]

lrn2ramennoodle

and

Thanks for that fantastic piece of advice. But I already ramennoodle quite a bit. And I've also been dealing with it my whole life.

 

[hiphopapotamous]

Who else would you have to pay for?

Parents. Don't want to delve much into my financial situation though.

 

[orthomyxo]

Thanks for that fantastic piece of advice. But I already ramennoodle quite a bit. And I've also been dealing with it my whole life.

Well then 10 more years won't kill you. And if it will, there are many other people willing to be "poor" so that they can practice medicine.

 

[DrBowtie]

Parents. Don't want to delve much into my financial situation though.

That is obviously a choice you are making, but 55k for a family of 3 is still 3x above poverty line.

 

[Barcu]

I go to a prestigious enough undergrad that I could possibly land a job at McKinsey, Bain, Booz, BCG, etc. (and I am a quantitative business major anyway). I really do want to be a physician, but I definitely hate the fact that I will be dirt poor until I am 30. I come from a low class family and have had to struggle with finances all my life (working jobs in high school and college). I am starting to think it might be worth it to look into other careers, even though I had been dead set on medicine for the past 4 years (taken MCAT, gotten research/clinical/volunteering experiences, ready to apply this cycle).

I realized that I really enjoy solving quantitative problems, and I like working things out in excel (as I have found from doing my independent research and other various times I have had to use excel for school). I also like analytical work, research, and like the idea of finding inefficiencies to correct them. A lot of the attributes needed to be a good ibanker/consultant are the same as the ones needed to be a good doctor (hard working attitude, strong ethics, great reasoning abilities, great communication skills, etc.).

I love taking care of sick people (as I have found out through my volunteering), and I love science, so it's not a very easy decision for me. Any input?

Back to the original question at hand.

It is hard for us to make a decision for you, since you know yourself much better (and you have to live with your decision). However, I will tell you this: many people choose to attend medical school after an alternative career. That is becoming more and more common. If you start in medical school, you will most likely be stuck in medicine.

 

[jvesco22]

The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

For some people being poor means not having the latest iphone and being stuck like a loser with one that is sooo 4 years ago, having an xbox and not an xbox 360, having a lower tier cable/satellite package and only having 200 channels to watch. Must suck not have the 1000 channel package. You never know when you'll be in the mood for some Russian variety television. 🙁

 

[whatbout2morrow]

Take the job. Keep building on your med school app credentials. See where you stand one year from now. You'll be able to take a better decision then.

 

[Musclemass]

..I come from a low class family.....

I made the mistake of sipping water as I started to read this post. It left my mouth quickly.

I think you maybe mean a low income family? I've run into a lot of low class people and it had nothing to do with their economic status.

I know some people who have gone the consulting route and the bucks are big right away. While they often work in teams, a lot of time is spent on pretty lonely/isolated drudgery. While the differences are huge, one big one is the difference between the close and intimate dealings you have with patients vs having close and intimate dealings with a computer screen and excel. But that's for you to decide.

In med school and training, you won't have much time to spend money anyway. Neither, by the way, do a lot of people who work in consulting and spend 50+ percent of their year working out of town and 16 hours a day.

 

[TFS]

Land a job and give it a shot. You won't know until you try it out.

 

[hiphopapotamous]

The problem is you're focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.

Mm yeah you trying to make up for your last post by acting like a sage and speaking in generalizations? The "few brain cells" I have were good enough to get me a 38 on the MCAT with 4 weeks of studying without taking a course, so you can keep your "knowledge." Let's list some of the pieces of knowledge you have contributed to this thread:

1...

 

[hiphopapotamous]

Back to the original question at hand.

It is hard for us to make a decision for you, since you know yourself much better (and you have to live with your decision). However, I will tell you this: many people choose to attend medical school after an alternative career. That is becoming more and more common. If you start in medical school, you will most likely be stuck in medicine.

Thanks for some real advice! Finally lol.

I made the mistake of sipping water as I started to read this post. It left my mouth quickly.

I think you maybe mean a low income family? I've run into a lot of low class people and it had nothing to do with their economic status.

I know some people who have gone the consulting route and the bucks are big right away. While they often work in teams, a lot of time is spent on pretty lonely/isolated drudgery. While the differences are huge, one big one is the difference between the close and intimate dealings you have with patients vs having close and intimate dealings with a computer screen and excel. But that's for you to decide.

In med school and training, you won't have much time to spend money anyway. Neither, by the way, do a lot of people who work in consulting and spend 50+ percent of their year working out of town and 16 hours a day.

Haha yes I meant low socioeconomic class family. I heard consulting has tons of client interaction and requires a huge amount of networking/personal interaction skills though... Investment banking, on the other hand, is tons of time spent on the computer screen. I mean, physicians spend a good 3-4 hours per day writing charts, which will eventually be done mostly on the computer, so it's not that different in that regard.

 

[hiphopapotamous]

Well then 10 more years won't kill you. And if it will, there are many other people willing to be "poor" so that they can practice medicine.

Oh, and all this time I thought 10 more years would lead to certain death. Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh geez, there are other people who are willing to be "poor" so that they can practice medicine? Clearly, the existence of this group of people means that the best choice for me is to become one of them.

Wow who knew advice on SDN could be so helpful?

 

[TarHeelEMT]

Mm yeah you trying to make up for your last post by acting like a sage and speaking in generalizations? The "few brain cells" I have were good enough to get me a 38 on the MCAT with 4 weeks of studying without taking a course, so you can keep your "knowledge." Let's list some of the pieces of knowledge you have contributed to this thread:

1...

The douche is strong in this one...

I recommend consulting.

 

[necoli]

First year residents make $45-55k/year.

Seems like every time I notice a residents pay is mentioned in a thread on SDN, it has gone up 5 grand.

 

[upchurch]

OP, one thing you should realize is that people burn out really fast in consulting. The traveling is horrendous. I know people who are out of their hometowns for more than 90% of the time traveling all around the world. Most usually consult only for a couple years to make money. Then they move onto something else--many go to law school, get MBAs etc. and do something quite different. It's the same case for i-banking.

So, it's more than likely that consulting won't become your career.

 

[chman]

Lets get this straight guys. While making 50k with a lot of debt is not fun, it is nowhere near poor and is pretty much average for American families. Notice the word families. I can assure you having four kids is every bit as much a financial burden as medical school debt.

To be truly considered "poor," for a household of one person, income should be 10k or less, according to our national guidelines. For a family of 8, it's around 37k. So lets keep things in perspective.

http:///aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml

 

[Venc]

I go to a prestigious enough undergrad that I could possibly land a job at McKinsey, Bain, Booz, BCG, etc. (and I am a quantitative business major anyway). I really do want to be a physician, but I definitely hate the fact that I will be dirt poor until I am 30. I come from a low class family and have had to struggle with finances all my life (working jobs in high school and college). I am starting to think it might be worth it to look into other careers, even though I had been dead set on medicine for the past 4 years (taken MCAT, gotten research/clinical/volunteering experiences, ready to apply this cycle).

I realized that I really enjoy solving quantitative problems, and I like working things out in excel (as I have found from doing my independent research and other various times I have had to use excel for school). I also like analytical work, research, and like the idea of finding inefficiencies to correct them. A lot of the attributes needed to be a good ibanker/consultant are the same as the ones needed to be a good doctor (hard working attitude, strong ethics, great reasoning abilities, great communication skills, etc.).

I love taking care of sick people (as I have found out through my volunteering), and I love science, so it's not a very easy decision for me. Any input?

This is your decision as it is your life!!

You want to help people and like research then work in research, that way you can help in developing better/new drugs that would help people. There you can do both of the things you like and not be "poor" for the next 10 years

 

[mdeast]

Oh, and all this time I thought 10 more years would lead to certain death. Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh geez, there are other people who are willing to be "poor" so that they can practice medicine? Clearly, the existence of this group of people means that the best choice for me is to become one of them.

Wow who knew advice on SDN could be so helpful?

Consulting could be the way to go...but let me offer some personal perspective. Maybe you're the type of person who likes the life...but I considered it at one point. After talking to people about it, I realized it just wasn't my personality at all. The best consultants aren't people who are fresh out of college. They're people who are physicians, scientists, lawyers, start-up company entrepreneurs, etc. who have built real life skills and knowledge of their fields and want to use that experience to help a client. That won't be you. You'll be a grunt worker with no truly relevant skills to any particular industry other than "problem solver", "excel data sheet analyzer", and "powerpoint presentation maker".

(1) You get paid decent (start salary 60-80k), + bonuses!
(2) You travel a lot. Sometimes for days or weeks at a time. This means living out of hotels, barely ever being in your apartment at home, odd hours, etc. Many consults will live in NYC, but spend 2 weeks/month at a client in Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana, etc. A lot of the time this is in awfully boring suburban locations.
(3) Your "day to day" job is mainly compiling massive amounts of data and making powerpoint slides with it. Many of these presentations will end up being meaningless with no real impact on any decision a client makes. Yay for 100 hours spent on that presentation.
(4) Your co-workers are douchebags. There were economics and business majors in college and care about chicks and money.

Medicine is an investment. A law degree is an investment. Any graduate degree is. The reality of it is that you invest in medice because you ENJOY the path. To be honest, med school can be ridiculously fun, interesting, enlightening, and powerful. It's worth the price I'm paying for it, because I enjoy what I'm doing. You also do it because you want to get to the finish line- be some sort of physician (academic, private, practicing, non-practicing) who impacts our healthcare system, an individuals life, the advent of a new technology etc.

These jobs are just completely different. You won't get the same type of fulfillment in consulting as you will in medicine. But, whether that is adequate to you is really relative to what sort of fulfillment you're looking for in this exact stage of your life.

That being said, I'm a strong proponent of trying things out. And, also a strong supporter of taking time off before medical school, particularly if you have doubts. I spent two years out of college where I made money, partied a lot, dated a lot, traveled, and just pretty much reveled in the awesomeness of no longer having exams, homework, etc.. I was offered a consulting-esque job after college (75k + 10k signing bonus, gauranteed Christmas bonus, amazing benefits), but turned it down. Instead, I took the 30k/year lab job and loved it, doing biomedical research I really loved, having a tight-knit lab, working great hours. To me (with a salary much less than 55k/year), I was pretty happy and content with my life even without making that much.

Those two years were invaluable to putting medical school and my career into perspective, defining personal and career goals (which is really important in deciding what specialty you want to go into). My personal advice (if you have such strong doubts) would be take some time now to explore non-med interests. You're young, medicine is a 40-50 year journey (no need to rush it), and practically every is doing it nowadays. Take time and see what you want out of life. Best way to do that is to test out what "life" really is. You'll emerge with a much more mature perspective. I guarantee it.

 

[jvesco22]

Mm yeah you trying to make up for your last post by acting like a sage and speaking in generalizations? The "few brain cells" I have were good enough to get me a 38 on the MCAT with 4 weeks of studying without taking a course, so you can keep your "knowledge." Let's list some of the pieces of knowledge you have contributed to this thread:

1...

strong unaware @ copy pasta. You jelly?

 

[ucladoc2b]

Now to hear from and actual consultant...

For the last four years, I have worked for a major consulting firm's healthcare practice, mainly focusing on managing large healthcare IT projects.

I was accepted into medical school for the fall of 2011.

Experiences with consulting are variable and will really differ based on the projects you are on, your management, your clients, and your co-workers. I do enjoy my job and there are some nice perks to it.

1. Travel: Really variable. Over the last four years, I have flown over one million miles (on United Airlines alone). I have flown LAX-JFK almost once a week for nearly two of those years. I have a nice collection of carry on bags. I do live in a hotel for three-four nights/week, but I am home most weekends. Honestly, I do enjoy flying and travelling and feel you really have to in order to fit in to consulting. You get some nice perks like airline status, hotel points. However, being away all the time can put some huge strains on your homelife, friendships and relationships (think being on call 4 nights a week as an equivalent). You really have to work hard to maintain a sense of belonging and community in your home city. However, all of my travel expenses are covered (and I get a nice per diem to boot). I've traveled to some great places and some terrible places.

All that being said, I do work from home occasionally (about 1 week every two months). And I never go to an office on Friday.

2. Work/Coworkers. Really variable depending on what you do. I do like my work because of how integrated it is into my client's clinical work. I have seen some of my work directly improve performance at my client hospitals. Additionally, I have gained some great experience in hospital management and healthcare policy. Coworkers, for the most part, have been pretty nice and easy going. There is an occasional jerk here and there, but, luckily, they have been few and very far between.

Yes, the work gets boring and monotonous sometimes. But, I guess that is just like every job.

3. Money. I started out at about $55K. I live in an expensive city. However, I was still able to save. You just need to be smart with your funds. Also, depending on what your skillset becomes, you might be looking at a significant raise after a couple of years (it took a jump to another firm, but my total pay ended up nearly tripling).

Overall, the experience has been great and valuable to my professional development. However, I have always been drawn more to patient care and clinical medicine more than hospital ops. Hence, the jump.

 

[Ursa]

Do what makes you happy. If medicine truly makes you happy, then you will really appreciate the things you learn and experience while living poor for a while. I too come from a low income family and have been holding jobs consistently since I was like 14. If another job will make you happier, you will appreciate the decision to veer away from medicine.

Just do some soul searching (cliche, I know) and try to make your best guess at which career path will be most gratifying for you. Sometimes you just gotta look out for numero uno.

 

[CaptainSSO]

Mm yeah you trying to make up for your last post by acting like a sage and speaking in generalizations? The "few brain cells" I have were good enough to get me a 38 on the MCAT with 4 weeks of studying without taking a course, so you can keep your "knowledge." Let's list some of the pieces of knowledge you have contributed to this thread:

1...

You're going to make a Porsche dealership very happy some day. -TM

It was difficult to decide which picture to use because there were so many great ones...

 

[Venc]

You're going to make a Porsche dealership very happy some day. -TM

It was difficult to decide which picture to use because there were so many great ones...

First I thought it was a photo of hippo that you found, then I realized it was some douche wearing 4 polos and an undershirt. How skinny is he?

Or is it like a douchy chastity belt?

 

[gettheleadout]

Seems like every time I notice a residents pay is mentioned in a thread on SDN, it has gone up 5 grand.

Inflation