DO's aren't doing too bad matching are they?

[XCourtSmash]

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So the thought on SDN seems to be that DO's have a harder time matching into competitive specialties such as ROADS.

I was thinking about it though, there are about 5 times as many MD schools as DO's. 141:29.
Assuming that each school has the same class size, (I know it doesn't, I just don't know the data off-hand) and all those MD's from the Caribbean, you have about 17% of graduates each year being DO's.

Now we all know that a majority of DO's enter medical school with similar or lower stats, but considering less than 20% of the graduates are DO's, if DO's are able to make it to about 10% in terms of matching in competitive residencies, I think speaks volumes in terms of how being an MD/DO doesn't really make a difference anymore. Factoring in how the top10 MD schools attract and get most of the smartest and brightest pre-meds, it makes a lot of sense why DO's make up a smaller percentage in competitive residencies.

I am fully aware that some people will still be prejudice against different letters following someone's name.

Of course if something about this assumption is wrong, please point it out. I am still learning and am nowhere as knowledgeable as a med student, resident, or attending might be.

 

[MedPR]

So the thought on SDN seems to be that DO's have a harder time matching into competitive specialties such as ROADS.

I was thinking about it though, there are about 5 times as many MD schools as DO's. 141:29.
Assuming that each school has the same class size, (I know it doesn't, I just don't know the data off-hand) and all those MD's from the Caribbean, you have about 17% of graduates each year being DO's.

Now we all know that a majority of DO's enter medical school with similar or lower stats, but considering less than 20% of the graduates are DO's, if DO's are able to make it to about 10% in terms of matching in competitive residencies, I think speaks volumes in terms of how being an MD/DO doesn't really make a difference anymore.

I am fully aware that some people will still be prejudice against different letters following someone's name.

Of course if something about this assumption is wrong, please point it out. I am still learning and am nowhere as knowledgeable as a med student, resident, or attending might be.

Since we are making some big assumptions ill throw one out there too. I assume the same percentage of DOs aspire ROAD (not ROADS) specialties as MDs. Therefore if a greater percentage of MDs match ROAD then MD is doing better than DO. Also idk about you, but I don't want to "not do too badly". I want to do exceptionally.

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[XCourtSmash]

Since we are making some big assumptions ill throw one out there too. I assume the same percentage of DOs aspire ROAD (not ROADS) specialties as MDs. Therefore if a greater percentage of MDs match ROAD then MD is doing better than DO. Also idk about you, but I don't want to "not do too badly". I want to do exceptionally.

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Ahh.... I always thought it was ROADS, but never figured out what the S was. ROAD it is!


Back on topic though.

But there are less DO's than MD's overall right? So if the same percentage aspire, say 25% of 10 DO vs 25% of 50 MD, there will still be more MD's applying vs DO's. So it would make sense if a higher percentage of MDs would match vs DOs.

Sorry if I made too many assumptions, like I said this is just going off of my limited knowledge. Love to learn more though, hence I'm here.

The "do too badly" is referring to the train of thought I've noticed here on SDN that DOs are less competitive for some specialties. The evidence put forth is usually how DOs make up for a very small amount. Like 30/300 spots or something. But I started thinking about how there are simply less DO students compared to MD students right? So it makes sense if the minority makes up a smaller percentage.

 

[MedPR]

Ahh.... I always thought it was ROADS, but never figured out what the S was. ROAD it is!


Back on topic though.

But there are less DO's than MD's overall right? So if the same percentage aspire, say 25% of 10 DO vs 25% of 50 MD, there will still be more MD's applying vs DO's. So it would make sense if a higher percentage of MDs would match vs DOs.

Sorry if I made too many assumptions, like I said this is just going off of my limited knowledge. Love to learn more though, hence I'm here.

The "do too badly" is referring to the train of thought I've noticed here on SDN that DOs are less competitive for some specialties. The evidence put forth is usually how DOs make up for a very small amount. Like 30/300 spots or something. But I started thinking about how there are simply less DO students compared to MD students right? So it makes sense if the minority makes up a smaller percentage.

If we are talking percentage applied to percentage matched, then it should be equal regardless of the actual number of applied to matched. If DO match as well as MD then 90% of DO applicants will match if 90% of MD applicants match even if that means only 9DO to 90MD.

And yes your logic is correct but the key piece of the puzzle (which neither you nor I have data for) is the success rate of MD and the success rate of DO. If DO are truly not doing too badly, then the success rates should be about equal.
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[XCourtSmash]

If we are talking percentage applied to percentage matched, then it should be equal regardless of the actual number of applied to matched. If DO match as well as MD then 90% of DO applicants will match if 90% of MD applicants match even if that means only 9DO to 90MD.

And yes your logic is correct but the key piece of the puzzle (which neither you nor I have data for) is the success rate of MD and the success rate of DO. If DO are truly not doing too badly, then the success rates should be about equal.
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Ahh, ok I get what you are saying. Totally agree. 😀 👍

 

[Goro]

I don't know about ROADs, but my students are mathcing into very nice places, and every year, it seems they match better and better.

So the thought on SDN seems to be that DO's have a harder time matching into competitive specialties such as ROADS.

I was thinking about it though, there are about 5 times as many MD schools as DO's. 141:29.
Assuming that each school has the same class size, (I know it doesn't, I just don't know the data off-hand) and all those MD's from the Caribbean, you have about 17% of graduates each year being DO's.

Now we all know that a majority of DO's enter medical school with similar or lower stats, but considering less than 20% of the graduates are DO's, if DO's are able to make it to about 10% in terms of matching in competitive residencies, I think speaks volumes in terms of how being an MD/DO doesn't really make a difference anymore. Factoring in how the top10 MD schools attract and get most of the smartest and brightest pre-meds, it makes a lot of sense why DO's make up a smaller percentage in competitive residencies.

I am fully aware that some people will still be prejudice against different letters following someone's name.

Of course if something about this assumption is wrong, please point it out. I am still learning and am nowhere as knowledgeable as a med student, resident, or attending might be.

 

[cliquesh]

Im applying to a road speciality. Sometimes board scores come up on interviews. I've interviewed at some places that I thought were pretty good programs with US MD kids with board scores in the 210's and these same kids are also interviewing at programs that I got rejected from. My board scores are in the 250's. There is a big difference between us-md and do.

 

[MedPR]

Not to oversimplify, but all you need to do is rack up some great grades, do well on your MCAT, and you are on your way. Your "life story" is extremely moving, to me at least, and I think your essays could do a number on an admissions committee. If you want to be a doctor, go follow your dreams, buddy!!!

No you can't post this in pre-osteo. Everyone will call you a troll.

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[docnotsopc]

Im applying to a road speciality. Sometimes board scores come up on interviews. I've interviewed at some places that I thought were pretty good programs with US MD kids with board scores in the 210's and these same kids are also interviewing at programs that I got rejected from. My board scores are in the 250's. There is a big difference between us-md and do.

You can say it 100 times, pre-meds and some med students still believe with a DO degree the sky is the limit

There is a limitation, and no one WANTS to believe it because they find some statistic somewhere of one DO in 10 years to match at Hogwarts prestigious university

Not to be a downer, but people just arent realistic enough. My class is full of people who get below average scores in our class with close to maximum effort and expect to match into Ortho. Every time they use the argument "DO = MD"

 

[HalfListic]

You can say it 100 times, pre-meds and some med students still believe with a DO degree the sky is the limit

There is a limitation, and no one WANTS to believe it because they find some statistic somewhere of one DO in 10 years to match at Hogwarts prestigious university

Not to be a downer, but people just arent realistic enough. My class is full of people who get below average scores in our class with close to maximum effort and expect to match into Ortho. Every time they use the argument "DO = MD"

Those who are delusional in your class has nothing to do with being DO or MD.


There are delusional DOs MDs DPMs NPs ODBs....I could go on.

Most people actually agree that competitive specialties are more difficult for DOs to match into, but plenty still do. So, I guess they aren't as limited as you are describing...

 

[docnotsopc]

Those who are delusional in your class has nothing to do with being DO or MD.


There are delusional DOs MDs DPMs NPs ODBs....I could go on.

Most people actually agree that competitive specialties are more difficult for DOs to match into, but plenty still do. So, I guess they aren't as limited as you are describing...

Says the pre-med......

this is awesome because Cliq literally pointed his/her experience with DO vs MD and residency selection two posts above.....and its still ignored

This is a DO vs MD thing. Are you blind? Cliq is applying to ROAD specialties.....as a DO with a 250+ and is competing with MDs with 210s....

 

[HalfListic]

Says the pre-med......

this is awesome because Cliq literally pointed his/her experience with DO vs MD and residency selection two posts above.....and its still ignored

This is a DO vs MD thing. Are you blind? Cliq is applying to ROAD specialties.....as a DO with a 250+ and is competing with MDs with 210s....

If you have any specific problems/contentions with my post, feel free to articulate them.

Keep in mind, your rebuttal above makes you look like the less mature of this discussion, so I wouldn't use that type of argument in the same one where you try to make me look less informed.

Again, if my point was lost on you, DOs match into many competitive specialties. For example, you pointed out Ortho, which DOs match into all the time. Then, they go on to make the same money as MDs.

So, again, my point, you are exaggerating the 'disadvantage' that DOs have come match time. They are disadvantaged, per se, but its not crippling. This is obvious, since they match.


So, deep breath, and then refute if you still have anything to say.

 

[cliquesh]

If you have any specific problems/contentions with my post, feel free to articulate them.

Keep in mind, your rebuttal above makes you look like the less mature of this discussion, so I wouldn't use that type of argument in the same one where you try to make me look less informed.

Again, if my point was lost on you, DOs match into many competitive specialties. For example, you pointed out Ortho, which DOs match into all the time. Then, they go on to make the same money as MDs.

So, again, my point, you are exaggerating the 'disadvantage' that DOs have come match time. They are disadvantaged, per se, but its not crippling. This is obvious, since they match.


So, deep breath, and then refute if you still have anything to say.

Acgme radiology and anesthesia are do able as DOs. However, in all likelihood, you'll end up at a middle or low tier program, where as a USMD with the same stats would probably end up a top or upper tier program. I didn't think it mattered where you trained as a premed, but it does for employment and fellowship opportunities.

By the way, if you get a 230+ and apply to 40-60 programs you'll get around 10-15 anesthesia invites. If you get a 240+ you'll get around 10-12 radiology invites. These numbers are from my classmate's experience.

 

[HalfListic]

Acgme radiology and anesthesia are do able as DOs. However, in all likelihood, you'll end up at a middle or low tier program, where as a USMD with the same stats would probably end up a top or upper tier program. I didn't think it mattered where you trained as a premed, but it does for employment and fellowship opportunities.

By the way, if you get a 230+ and apply to 40-60 programs you'll get around 10-15 anesthesia invites. If you get a 240+ you'll get around 10-12 radiology invites. These numbers are from my classmate's experience.

Im with you here...its tougher for DOs to get ACGME spots. Thats just how it is. Im sure it will be the same for MDs trying to land AOA spots when the match is combined. This is not where I disagreed with the other poster.


But, just now, you wrote about being a DO and getting employment...thats not correct. Employers don't care where you trained or if you are MD or DO. Unless you are talking about some certain administrative or academic positions, this is not accurate.


Its Not more difficult to get employment for a DO

 

[DrBowtie]

Im with you here...its tougher for DOs to get ACGME spots. Thats just how it is. Im sure it will be the same for MDs trying to land AOA spots when the match is combined. This is not where I disagreed with the other poster.


But, just now, you wrote about being a DO and getting employment...thats not correct. Employers don't care where you trained or if you are MD or DO. Unless you are talking about some certain administrative or academic positions, this is not accurate.


Its Not more difficult to get employment for a DO

Mostly false. For desirable jobs with many candidates, your pedigree absolutely matters.
For undesirable jobs or places that are begging for people you're right.

 

[HalfListic]

Mostly false. For desirable jobs with many candidates, your pedigree absolutely matters.
For undesirable jobs or places that are begging for people you're right.

Where do you guys get this? Getting a job as a DO is just like an MD. They interview you, they see if you fit in with their group and...if you are trained, they dont care if you are DO or MD. Im not guessing here, just telling how it is.


What a fantasy land some of you live in😕


Ill write it again: Employers don't care where you trained or if you are MD or DO. (Unless you are talking about some certain administrative or academic positions.)

 

[cliquesh]

Where do you guys get this? Getting a job as a DO is just like an MD. They interview you, they see if you fit in with their group and...if you are trained, they dont care if you are DO or MD. Im not guessing here, just telling how it is.


What a fantasy land some of you live in😕


Ill write it again: Employers don't care where you trained or if you are MD or DO. (Unless you are talking about some certain administrative or academic positions.)

Are you being serious, half life? I'm telling you what i have experienced as a 4th year DO. To some groups, especially in competitive fields of medicine, it matters where you went to school, residency and fellowship. The job market is saturated in most major cities and it's hard to find a good job in a desirable area without a decent CV. This may not be true for primary care, but for high paying jobs, like radiology and anesthesia, the competition for jobs is rough. Radiology residents, for instance, are often forced to do 1 or 2 fellowships before they can find a job. I'm not BSing you.

 

[docnotsopc]

Where do you guys get this? Getting a job as a DO is just like an MD. They interview you, they see if you fit in with their group and...if you are trained, they dont care if you are DO or MD. Im not guessing here, just telling how it is.


What a fantasy land some of you live in😕


Ill write it again: Employers don't care where you trained or if you are MD or DO. (Unless you are talking about some certain administrative or academic positions.)

Do tell about your experience as a DO trying to get hired?

Do tell about any of your experience beyond SDN?

Please tell me from your experience what medical school is like? It seems like you know so much. Apparently you know what life beyond medical school is like so you must know exactly what the path is like to get there

 

[HalfListic]

Are you being serious, half life? I'm telling you what i have experienced as a 4th year DO. To some groups, especially in competitive fields of medicine, it matters where you went to school, residency and fellowship. The job market is saturated in most major cities and it's hard to find a good job in a desirable area without a decent CV. This may not be true for primary care, but for high paying jobs, like radiology and anesthesia, the competition for jobs is rough. Radiology residents, for instance, are often forced to do 1 or 2 fellowships before they can find a job. I'm not BSing you.

Now we can agree...to some groups, in highly competitive positions/hospitals, it matters. I've agreed all along. But, it's hard for MDs here as well.

DOs fall in place as mid to low level MD schools...so for the very few programs where they actually care, are they are few, both mid to low MD schoolers as well as DO schoolers, will usually be beat out by mid to high tier MD/residency/fellowship trained physicians.



You have to present this as exceptional...not the rule. DOs can get a job just as easy as MDs...to think otherwise is delusional.

 

[DrBowtie]

Where do you guys get this? Getting a job as a DO is just like an MD. They interview you, they see if you fit in with their group and...if you are trained, they dont care if you are DO or MD. Im not guessing here, just telling how it is.


What a fantasy land some of you live in😕


Ill write it again: Employers don't care where you trained or if you are MD or DO. (Unless you are talking about some certain administrative or academic positions.)

Again, people care where you trained. It's less of a DO/MD issue, more of a did you train at XYZ programs.

As you progress, the world gets smaller and smaller and who you know aka where you trained becomes very important.

As pointed out above me, in saturated markets, jobs are very competitive.

 

[HalfListic]

Do tell about your experience as a DO trying to get hired?

Do tell about any of your experience beyond SDN?

Please tell me from your experience what medical school is like? It seems like you know so much. Apparently you know what life beyond medical school is like so you must know exactly what the path is like to get there

I'm a non trad with experience in many areas of healthcare, including low level administration. Also, my father is in high level administration and I've been around this all my life. I have most my exposure with surgical groups. I'm probably older than you as well since it seems like life experience matters so much to you.

Since neither of us are physicians, forgive me for not deferring to your "experience" and listening to my family friends and colleagues who are actual physicians and administrators.

What was your qualification? Being an intern? Congrats! 😉

 

[diagonal]

Sounds like radiology ain't the cats meeow any longer.

 

[MedPR]

Sounds like radiology ain't the cats meeow any longer.

Where'd you hear that?

 

[HalfListic]

Again, people care where you trained. It's less of a DO/MD issue, more of a did you train at XYZ programs.

As you progress, the world gets smaller and smaller and who you know aka where you trained becomes very important.

As pointed out above me, in saturated markets, jobs are very competitive.

Yes, this is much closer to the truth!

Though I will still hold to the fact that a majority of jobs will not fall under the super competitive category.

 

[diagonal]

Where'd you hear that?

Everywhere.

 

[MedPR]

Everywhere.

That's a good place to hear stuff.

 

[HalfListic]

That's a good place to hear stuff.

So true

 

[premedmind]

Acgme radiology and anesthesia are do able as DOs. However, in all likelihood, you'll end up at a middle or low tier program, where as a USMD with the same stats would probably end up a top or upper tier program. I didn't think it mattered where you trained as a premed, but it does for employment and fellowship opportunities.

By the way, if you get a 230+ and apply to 40-60 programs you'll get around 10-15 anesthesia invites. If you get a 240+ you'll get around 10-12 radiology invites. These numbers are from my classmate's experience.

Mind mentioning what kind of programs you are talking in regards to here? (i.e., places where a US-MD with a 210 competes equally/out competes a DO with a 250). I don't discount your experience one bit It just seems a bit extreme? I thought a 250 would be an extremely competitive score, MD or DO. I knew it was an uphill battle but to be honest that is just ridiculous...you're saying a DO with a 250 can only realistically match into lower-mid tier anesthesia programs?

Feel free to PM me if you would like.

 

[cliquesh]

Mind mentioning what kind of programs you are talking in regards to here? (i.e., places where a US-MD with a 210 competes equally/out competes a DO with a 250). I don't discount your experience one bit It just seems a bit extreme? I thought a 250 would be an extremely competitive score, MD or DO. I knew it was an uphill battle but to be honest that is just ridiculous...you're saying a DO with a 250 can only realistically match into lower-mid tier anesthesia programs?

Feel free to PM me if you would like.

Not exactly. I've interviewed at some really good programs, but there are other programs, some top programs, some middle tier, and some bottom tier programs, that will not even consider my application because Im a DO. That's just the way it is. I seriously doubt no amount of hard work or board scores could ever change it.

The USMDs I was talking about were interviewing at programs out west and in the south that instantly rejected me. So, it's not the end of the world being a DO, but there is definitely an inequality between DOs and MDs, even in "DO friendly" fields.

 

[sylvanthus]

There is definately still DO discrimination going on in the MD side of things. I have great stats (boards, grades, SLORs, rank, EC, etc) for an EM applicant and have applied to twice as many programs as many MD students with similiar stats just to get the same number of interview invites.

Yes, there is still discrimination out there. Pretending there isn't is not going to aid you come application time.

 

[sylvanthus]

Also, if you want to do away rotations 3rd and 4th year, there are programs that require DO and IMG/FMG students to pay extra tuition. They do not require this of MD students.

 

[Darkskies]

If any of you were to visit the specialty forums regularly you would have seen that nearly everyone there agrees that finding a job in ANY specialty as an MD or DO is not difficult at all(except for maybe pathology where the job market really is getting saturated).. Where do you guys get this idea that it's harder to find a job as a DO? Certain DO residencies are subpar but the only time this has been an issue for DOs as far as I know are those that completed an AOA residency in Anesthesia where it really was more difficult getting employed due to only having AOA board certification. The hurdle largely comes in getting a competitive residency after which employers mostly care if you're board certified or not.. You might reply with anecdotal stories and 'matter of fact' like statements but I choose to believe physicians in practice on the specialty forums over pre-meds and med students here on the pre-osteo forum..

 

[Darkskies]

Also, if you want to do away rotations 3rd and 4th year, there are programs that require DO and IMG/FMG students to pay extra tuition. They do not require this of MD students.

Didn't the AMA recently mandate a rule that explicitly forbid that when it comes to DO students?

 

[Nymphicus]

Didn't the AMA recently mandate a rule that explicitly forbid that when it comes to DO students?

 

[sylvanthus]

Didn't the AMA recently mandate a rule that explicitly forbid that when it comes to DO students?

The AMA does not have that kind of power.

From Northwestern's website.

"Am I required to pay the tuition fee? The tuition fee is required only from International students (non–Partner) and Osteopathic students."

 

[Nymphicus]

If any of you were to visit the specialty forums regularly you would have seen that nearly everyone there agrees that finding a job in ANY specialty as an MD or DO is not difficult at all(except for maybe pathology where the job market really is getting saturated).. Where do you guys get this idea that it's harder to find a job as a DO? Certain DO residencies are subpar but the only time this has been an issue for DOs as far as I know are those that completed an AOA residency in Anesthesia where it really was more difficult getting employed due to only having AOA board certification. The hurdle largely comes in getting a competitive residency after which employers mostly care if you're board certified or not.. You might reply with anecdotal stories and 'matter of fact' like statements but I choose to believe physicians in practice on the specialty forums over pre-meds and med students here on the pre-osteo forum..

To elaborate on this,

finding a job does not necessarily mean finding a job you want.

 

[Darkskies]

"In 2006, calls for an investigation into the existence of differential fees charged for visiting D.O. and M.D. medical students at American medical schools were brought to the American Medical Association. After an internal investigation into the fee structure for visiting D.O. and M.D. medical students at M.D. medical schools, it was found that one institution of the 102 surveyed charged different fees for D.O. and M.D. students.[54] The house of delegates of the American Medical Association adopted resolution 809, I-05 in 2007."

Direct quote from the AMA:

"Our AMA, in collaboration with the American Osteopathic Association, discourages discrimination against medical students by institutions and programs based on osteopathic or allopathic training."

— AMA policy H-295.876

 

[DrBowtie]

"In 2006, calls for an investigation into the existence of differential fees charged for visiting D.O. and M.D. medical students at American medical schools were brought to the American Medical Association. After an internal investigation into the fee structure for visiting D.O. and M.D. medical students at M.D. medical schools, it was found that one institution of the 102 surveyed charged different fees for D.O. and M.D. students.[54] The house of delegates of the American Medical Association adopted resolution 809, I-05 in 2007."

Direct quote from the AMA:

"Our AMA, in collaboration with the American Osteopathic Association, discourages discrimination against medical students by institutions and programs based on osteopathic or allopathic training."

— AMA policy H-295.876

Too bad that its the AAMC who would need to create the policy. AMA is merely a lobbying group.

 

[MedPR]

"In 2006, calls for an investigation into the existence of differential fees charged for visiting D.O. and M.D. medical students at American medical schools were brought to the American Medical Association. After an internal investigation into the fee structure for visiting D.O. and M.D. medical students at M.D. medical schools, it was found that one institution of the 102 surveyed charged different fees for D.O. and M.D. students.[54] The house of delegates of the American Medical Association adopted resolution 809, I-05 in 2007."

Direct quote from the AMA:

"Our AMA, in collaboration with the American Osteopathic Association, discourages discrimination against medical students by institutions and programs based on osteopathic or allopathic training."

— AMA policy H-295.876

Bro, discourage and forbid are no t synonymous.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[Ost3oclast]

So what is being said is that DO students end up in crappy FP residencies and can only realistically expect to get a job in undesirable locations? Meh, fine with me.

 

[sylvanthus]

So what is being said is that DO students end up in crappy FP residencies and can only realistically expect to get a job in undesirable locations? Meh, fine with me.

Im guessing your verbal score wasn't that great.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Im guessing your verbal score wasn't that great.

11 actually. I was being sarcastic bro.

 

[Darkskies]

To elaborate on this,

finding a job does not necessarily mean finding a job you want.

Yes, finding a job largely does mean finding a job you want. Saturated markets are present only in large cities like NYC, LA, etc. Even here finding a job isn't difficult so much as finding a job that would pay you as much as you would be earning in a less desirable area. Individuals graduating from top residencies DO NOT earn more on average. It all comes down to networking and business sense once you're in the field. The main advantage to graduating from a top residency is obtaining a spot in academics.

We're talking about doctors here.. The numbers of graduating physicians are deliberately kept low such that even average students have job offers flooding their mailbox..

 

[sylvanthus]

Yes, finding a job largely does mean finding a job you want. Saturated markets are present only in large cities like NYC, LA, etc. Even here finding a job isn't difficult so much as finding a job that would pay you as much as you would be earning in a less desirable area. Individuals graduating from top residencies DO NOT earn more on average. It all comes down to networking and business sense once you're in the field. The main advantage to graduating from a top residency is obtaining a spot in academics.

We're talking about doctors here.. The numbers of graduating physicians are deliberately kept low such that even average students have job offers flooding their mailbox..

Take a look at the pathology forums sometime.

 

[Darkskies]

Bro, discourage and forbid are no t synonymous.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Even so their survey found that only one in 102 institutions surveyed charged a different rate for visiting DO students.. What does that tell you about the likelihood of this differential rate being an issue for many DO students?

 

[Darkskies]

Take a look at the pathology forums sometime.

Please read the entirety of my posts. I already mentioned before that pathology is the only specialty that might be facing a more saturated market(nowhere NEAR as saturated as non-physician fields). This is true for MDs and DOs. Employers don't care what your degree is..

 

[DrBowtie]

Please read the entirety of my posts. I already mentioned before that pathology is the only specialty that might be facing a more saturated market(nowhere NEAR as saturated as non-physician fields). This is true for MDs and DOs. Employers don't care what your degree is..

Radiology is pretty tight at the moment:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=962492

Cards EP seems pretty tight as well:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=831422
Rad/Onc:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=951204
Anesthesia:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=928418

In general people are not getting multiple ideal offers to pick from outside of PC. The new ACA has made many groups hesitant to expand until they know for certain how new legislation will all shake out.

 

[docnotsopc]

I'm a non trad with experience in many areas of healthcare, including low level administration. Also, my father is in high level administration and I've been around this all my life. I have most my exposure with surgical groups. I'm probably older than you as well since it seems like life experience matters so much to you.

Since neither of us are physicians, forgive me for not deferring to your "experience" and listening to my family friends and colleagues who are actual physicians and administrators.

What was your qualification? Being an intern? Congrats! 😉

Your statements above basically make your "experience" mean nothing. You clearly know much less than you think and live in a little bubble (im guessing somewhere DOs are popular, which is fine but represents tiny parts of the US)

Thank you for the good laugh though

 

[premedmind]

If any of you were to visit the specialty forums regularly you would have seen that nearly everyone there agrees that finding a job in ANY specialty as an MD or DO is not difficult at all(except for maybe pathology where the job market really is getting saturated).. Where do you guys get this idea that it's harder to find a job as a DO? Certain DO residencies are subpar but the only time this has been an issue for DOs as far as I know are those that completed an AOA residency in Anesthesia where it really was more difficult getting employed due to only having AOA board certification. The hurdle largely comes in getting a competitive residency after which employers mostly care if you're board certified or not.. You might reply with anecdotal stories and 'matter of fact' like statements but I choose to believe physicians in practice on the specialty forums over pre-meds and med students here on the pre-osteo forum..

How will this change after the merging of ACGME, if at all? Since accreditation is carried out by ACGME how will employers view DO's? Obviously speculation but curious if anyone can throw out some conjectures here...

 

[IslandStyle808]

How will this change after the merging of ACGME, if at all? Since accreditation is carried out by ACGME how will employers view DO's? Obviously speculation but curious if anyone can throw out some conjectures here...

Yep, tough to say on the DO degree issue. However, I still think the majority of it will still be based on 1) where the residency is done and 2) the connections the residents have.