DOs that don't match
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I hate to defend specter in this case cause he was being a bit mean spiritied about it, but he is right on his points. Let me sort of parse out the two things about this little disagreement that makes both people right.
1) Specter is talking about the residency positions. These are the highly desirable spots everyone assumes they will get and (if i have been informed correctly) are the only/primary gateway into clinical pharmacy. They are massively competed for and seem to only go to a select few people from a select few elite-named schools because there are so much fewer of them than there are graduates. My friends are in florida and georgia, so they are in that southeast region and can attest it is quite the case there.
2) The other guy is talking about retail jobs and people from low name schools. Being fro that sort of school and being okay with a retail job would make the market seem much more open. I do not doubt there are excess retail jobs to be had. I heard of a rite aid positon offering just over 100K a year. My jaw hit the ground upon hearing that. But thats the money some retail positions will pay. Despite that, the people who go to name brand schools expect to get the elusive residency spots and might see the retail positions as beneath them. If they aren't considering them initially the market will seem exceptionally competitive. If they are only considering them, the market will seem exceptionally wide open.
Its all perspective. But since most people (i would assume) enroll expecting to do clinical pharmacy, and its become so difficult to get that (mind you, not impossible. But that competition is fierce), I can't really endorse pharm school unless you are confident you'd be okay with rite aid as a legitimate (likely?) outcome.
1) Specter is talking about the residency positions. These are the highly desirable spots everyone assumes they will get and (if i have been informed correctly) are the only/primary gateway into clinical pharmacy. They are massively competed for and seem to only go to a select few people from a select few elite-named schools because there are so much fewer of them than there are graduates. My friends are in florida and georgia, so they are in that southeast region and can attest it is quite the case there.
2) The other guy is talking about retail jobs and people from low name schools. Being fro that sort of school and being okay with a retail job would make the market seem much more open. I do not doubt there are excess retail jobs to be had. I heard of a rite aid positon offering just over 100K a year. My jaw hit the ground upon hearing that. But thats the money some retail positions will pay. Despite that, the people who go to name brand schools expect to get the elusive residency spots and might see the retail positions as beneath them. If they aren't considering them initially the market will seem exceptionally competitive. If they are only considering them, the market will seem exceptionally wide open.
Its all perspective. But since most people (i would assume) enroll expecting to do clinical pharmacy, and its become so difficult to get that (mind you, not impossible. But that competition is fierce), I can't really endorse pharm school unless you are confident you'd be okay with rite aid as a legitimate (likely?) outcome.
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I consider it a tit for tat exchange
condescension is most easily met in kind. But on these points, pharmacy seems to be similar to IMGs looking to match. You can get a job, but not if you're picky about where you go.
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#'s such as these are often based on a static system. While, if nothing changes, this holds true then yes there is going to be a huge residency crunch. If the MD/DO merger actually goes ahead (at this point their is only an agreement to plan a merge) then I certainly see MD/DO spots mixing pretty well. The caveat here is that on the extreme end you have old school MD's and on the other old school DO's. If these guys have a say in picking candidates then yes, their will still be a bias. As the new guys kick out the old guys and the relationship continues to grow, I think these biased opinions will subside, as they should.
Another thing to consider is that we will get more residency spots. Their is no way a public is going to support a system that reports a shortage of doctors, but will not fork out the cash to train them. Finally their is a growing movement to combine the boards into one exam and also change the requirements to graduate residency. If you are an FP and you are a rock star by the end of year two, their will be the option to graduate early. This will also result in more spots.
Another thing to consider is that we will get more residency spots. Their is no way a public is going to support a system that reports a shortage of doctors, but will not fork out the cash to train them. Finally their is a growing movement to combine the boards into one exam and also change the requirements to graduate residency. If you are an FP and you are a rock star by the end of year two, their will be the option to graduate early. This will also result in more spots.
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To get back to the main topic: the OP is at a major crossroads. To the OP, I think you are doing the wrong thing by going into pharmacy. I mean, you haven't even tried to get a residency yet and already you're saying it's impossible!!! Give yourself a chance man! Retake Step 1 and kill it! You've already invested 2 years of your life into this...that's A LOT. The remaining two years are a lot easier than the first two you just did. Additionally, I would argue that the last two years of med school are easier than pharm school (and shorter, obviously). The payoff is also greater if you succeed in med school.
So think of it this way:
Option 1 (med school): 2 more years (smaller investment) for a greater reward.
Option 2 (pharm school): 3 more years (larger investment) for a lesser reward.
The second option might seem easier right now, especially because it might make you feel like you're escaping your problems, but it's the worse option in the long term.
Additionally, NOVA used to (they might still) have a program that allowed graduates of an MD program to earn a DO. I believe it was only an additional two years following the MD program. That could be something you look into if you fail to get a residency.
So think of it this way:
Option 1 (med school): 2 more years (smaller investment) for a greater reward.
Option 2 (pharm school): 3 more years (larger investment) for a lesser reward.
The second option might seem easier right now, especially because it might make you feel like you're escaping your problems, but it's the worse option in the long term.
Additionally, NOVA used to (they might still) have a program that allowed graduates of an MD program to earn a DO. I believe it was only an additional two years following the MD program. That could be something you look into if you fail to get a residency.
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The guy above me has great points just like the rest of the people on this thread.
Look OP, Pharm school is like jumping into another frying pan do you really want to change worrying about residency into worrying about getting in a pharm program, let alone finding a job.
If you just have to go to another school Go PODIATRY, no USMLE, and you get to be a clinical doctor, idk where pharmacy came from but it's extremely far from medicine and pretty boring to most.
But just retake the USMLE a poster already showed that you failed it and can retake it.
And on a final note, tell your parents to Kick rocks they aren't going to be wearing a DO or a MD on their white coat why would their opinion be the deciding factor. You should have really done your research before making such a big move. And your contemplating an extremely poorly thought out decision right now that reflects the same decision maker you had two years ago. Somethings gotta give this is natural selection man your parents will like you better with No degree rather than a DO haha how silly. But you scored what you scored and its up to you to fix it lucky enough to have your school paid.
Look OP, Pharm school is like jumping into another frying pan do you really want to change worrying about residency into worrying about getting in a pharm program, let alone finding a job.
If you just have to go to another school Go PODIATRY, no USMLE, and you get to be a clinical doctor, idk where pharmacy came from but it's extremely far from medicine and pretty boring to most.
But just retake the USMLE a poster already showed that you failed it and can retake it.
And on a final note, tell your parents to Kick rocks they aren't going to be wearing a DO or a MD on their white coat why would their opinion be the deciding factor. You should have really done your research before making such a big move. And your contemplating an extremely poorly thought out decision right now that reflects the same decision maker you had two years ago. Somethings gotta give this is natural selection man your parents will like you better with No degree rather than a DO haha how silly. But you scored what you scored and its up to you to fix it lucky enough to have your school paid.
I am starting to have some relapse of symptoms(GAD and CD) after completing TMS therapy last July. I will require 5 maintenance treatments for every six months. I think it is in the best interest of my health for me to switch to pharmacy. Even if I miraculously do get residency; I am not sure if I can handle the stress. Doctors need to be intelligent, diligent, and be able to handle very high levels of stress. All jobs are stressful but it is in my best interest to minimize my stress moving forward while at the same time have a decent job
even though I may not enjoy/have a passion for that job.
even though I may not enjoy/have a passion for that job.
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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnFr-DOPf8[/YOUTUBE]
My situation is not a joke.
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The tutelage of Yoda, no joke either.
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ftfy
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OP, such is life...
You were expecting to land on the glorious world of the MDs using a fake parachute that was said to be "customized" for you by the Caribbean med school representative. It was ready to start immediately and waiting for you... Instead, now you're being awakened from this dream by the harshness of the reality.
The fact pill that you should swallow three times a day before the meals is that the US-DO path has been closed for you... You missed the train, for good. Now, whip your horses away and leave the scene, please.
You've already been a perfect sample for those who consider to go to the Caribbean med schools for a "dream" by first looking down upon the US-DO schools, just for the sake of getting that MD after your name. Let me give you the title you deserve: Maybe one Day = MD
You were expecting to land on the glorious world of the MDs using a fake parachute that was said to be "customized" for you by the Caribbean med school representative. It was ready to start immediately and waiting for you... Instead, now you're being awakened from this dream by the harshness of the reality.
The fact pill that you should swallow three times a day before the meals is that the US-DO path has been closed for you... You missed the train, for good. Now, whip your horses away and leave the scene, please.
You've already been a perfect sample for those who consider to go to the Caribbean med schools for a "dream" by first looking down upon the US-DO schools, just for the sake of getting that MD after your name. Let me give you the title you deserve: Maybe one Day = MD
Hah, that's a litte harsh.
I think some DO schools take MDs. I'm pretty sure there was one MD-IMG at DMU.
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Let's just say I don't know of any DO graduate who couldn't get a job as a physician. The AOA still has hundreds of residencies that they couldn't find DOs to fill. On the other hand I personally know a Caribbean MD who didn't match anywhere. He's trying to find a job to pay his rent. Caribbean has become a very bad option.
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A few DO schools accept US IMGs but only as new students, and never in advanced standing. They have to apply with everyone else and repeat the whole thing. Most of them can't afford it.
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Wow imagine the debt......we think 300K is bad, how about twice that!
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switching to pharmacy = joining the dark side?
OP is right. His situation is not a joke. Also people here are very misinformed about what pharmacy graduates tend to look for in a job. Retail positions are more lucrative and the majority of pharmacists work in retail. The average retail pharmacist makes around 100k up to 120k if they hustle. Clinical pharmacists make in the 80-90k range. Clinical pharmacists are more of a recent innovation although it is true that it is more difficult to find a residency position in order to enter clinical pharmacy.. As far as I know pharmacy in general is getting saturated but what people tend to lament is the lack of RETAIL jobs and not clinical ones..
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I half agree with this. I know that most pharmacy grads I know want to work in a specific geographical area and don't want to move to where the jobs are. That's also a problem for doctors
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I agree with everything except for that last answer. Knowing about 30 pharm students graduating (of which, yes, 22 are from the pharm school attached to my med school) in 5 different states in 3 vastly different areas of the country and all of them would disagree 100% with that last one. Its the clinical spots that are heavily saturated and have demand far outstripping supply and retail jobs are the ones that are wide open but no one wants to "drop" to retail.
Though I have heard the pay difference is backwards like that haha. The highly demanded spots pay less than the less demanded.
Even if I went to a DO school initially it wouldn't change the fact that I would have still ended up with a large time gap due to GAD/CD. Having a two year disruption in your medical education and not being able to disclose it even though transcranial magnetic stimulation works for me is an unacceptable red flag. TMS is starting to gain more credibility since it has been picked up by blue cross so maybe in the future(7-10 years) after I complete pharmacy school and work for a while I can fully disclose everything to a DO school and prove to them that I had a problem but I have it fully under control. If I went to DO school initially the degree that I would get in 2 years would actually be Damn I was still out of my mind for 2 years = DO.
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See you soon... in 7-10 years, after I've finished my residency, then. Good day. Bye.
Oh you are a college kid. Premedical. You need to mature and learn empathy. Don't worry you are still a kid maybe you can develop into an altruistic caring physician. I unlike many medical students didn't get into medicine for money, prestige, and to placate my ego. When
I went to AUC over osteopathic medical school it was because my parents were willing to pay for my education if I went to a Caribbean medical school over osteopathic medical school. I actually could have cared less back then about what two letters were after my name. The opportunity to have zero debt was very appealing to me and I took the Caribbean route.
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Well, this thread has run its course and have deviated from the title of this thread (and thus off topic for this specific forum with its core audience)
Closing.
Closing.
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