DOs with 3.4s/30+ MCATs?

[HalfListic]

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I'm seriously not a troll. Read my post history like I mentioned if you don't believe me. I think people on SDN are too quick to brand others as trolls when realistically how many people would go out of their way to create stupid/fake threads?

What are these issues you think I should figure out? Are you just upset that prestige factors into my choice? I'm human. Prestige matters to a lot of people, especially to residency directors. The average DO student has a 3.4/27 MCAT which is much lower than my stats. This is fine but it is also what makes me worry if I am being too hasty in settling for the DO when maybe the MD would only take a little bit more work to obtain(plus the year of loss). I'm just trying to weigh out my options so I can choose the best route for myself at this point especially since the potential negatives of going for the ACP/SMP is another year lost and the bigger issue is that I don't know if I can finance the ACP year(nearly guaranteed acceptance to Tulane but doesn't qualify for federal loans).

Dark...I think pointing out why I think your thought process is flawed or misguided doesn't seem to be the most helpful thing to do right now.

I will say, at this point in your life, you should be able to express yourself in the proper way in multiple settings. The way you presented your story here, in a pre-DO forum, was obviously not the right way to do it if you wanted people to relate to you and give advice.

Again, your stats aren't amazing, they're good...there will be plenty of your classmates who had these stats and better. DO schools have lower matriculant stats because they accept a range of GPAs and MCAT scores that are over a certain threshold. Thats what they mean when they say they look at you holistically. But, don't mistake it, your 3.46 and 32 MCAT won't stand out, especially at UMDNJ (as well as many, many other DO Schools).

Lastly, this is very late in the game to be making up your mind about your situation. You should have been thinking about this much earlier. I don't know what to tell you beyond what pattr has written...except maybe that I would point you to the SMP more. Im sure you are young, so whats another year if you want the "prestige" you associate with an MD?

Darkskies, you cannot really ask someone else to make this decision for you. You have all the information. Now it comes down to... Do I want to become a physician? or... Do I want to become an MD? Which matters more to you? In the end, you will be spending the next 7-11 years of your life (+1 if you do the post-bac) in school/residency so you need to be satisfied with your decision no matter what.

I myself am a 3rd year osteopathic student. I attended UCLA for undergrad. I had a similar MCAT/GPA profile as yours. A great deal of my classmates do as well. I was told all the time by MD attendings and medical students at UCLA "avoid DO at all costs, go for MD." That did not stop me from attending osteopathic school. In the end, I chose a DO school and I have no regrets now. I look back and think about how misguided the advice from those students/doctors was... A DO degree will allow me to apply to AOA + ACGME residencies and gives me extra training in manual manipulation which I find incredibly rewarding. I worked my butt off for 6 months from Dec.-June and scored well on both COMLEX and USMLE Step/Level 1 and now have lots of options as far as residency is concerned.

If I were you, I would try to talk to students at UMDNJ and Tulane and wherever else your options are and see how you feel after that.

good advice...hopefully heeded.

 

[IMDoc607]

...unless you hold on to this MD is better/more prestigious than thou mentality when you are an actual physician.

If the kid is not comfortable then he/she should not attend and he/she should not be attacked. If that's how they feel then so be it. I don't care if the OP or someone feels this way about attending a DO school because I am worried about more important things. I don't want to lecture to much but when you are working in the ED doing admission and someone starts crashing no one cares. I have been the ICU/CCU resident and working as a team has saved lives. Nothing is more important than that. I am sure some of the medical students have witnessed such collaboration amongst all medical professionals regardless of degree. The OP is unsure and is not trying to be a jerk even if he comes off that way. Maybe since I have seen families cry when their family member died and others rejoice when seeing their family member leave the hospital alive I have a different perspective. I just feel differently about it thats all.

If you aren't comfortable with going to a DO school then do NOT go.

Best of luck

 

[IMDoc607]

yeah, do school = bad idea.
you're going to be a permanent outcast, walking around the hospital with your head bowed down and eyes averted in shame.
the county morgue doesn't even want you as a pathologist.
elsewhere you will live in constant fear that the end-stage comatose patient in room 109 might one day discover your real medical degree and scream in horror.
your nights will be filled with envy that the dude from ross gets to call himself an md and tell all his neighbors he's an md, and you can't.
your minimum wage salary will go to buying duct tape to cover up the initials that you despise so much.
surely the do degree shall follow you all the days of your life and you will dwell in the house of poverty and misery for ever.
get out now while you can.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

This is so wrong. MCAT is standardized and directly compares you to your peers. It focuses less on straight regurgitation and more on critical thinking and analysis, as a good portion of the information you will need is given in the passages.

GPA can fluctuate depending on the institution, major/minor, and even professors.

There's a lot of luck in the MCAT and what is on it.

 

[MedPR]

OP, if you decide to attend SOM, then just know that you will have at least one classmate with a significantly higher MCAT than you.




This is so wrong. MCAT is standardized and directly compares you to your peers. It focuses less on straight regurgitation and more on critical thinking and analysis, as a good portion of the information you will need is given in the passages.

GPA can fluctuate depending on the institution, major/minor, and even professors.

There is some luck involved on the MCAT. Granted a 25 isn't going to turn into a 35 because of luck, but a 32 can end up a 37 on a good day and vice versa.

 

[HalfListic]

If the kid is not comfortable then he/she should not attend and he/she should not be attacked. If that's how they feel then so be it. I don't care if the OP or someone feels this way about attending a DO school because I am worried about more important things. I don't want to lecture to much but when you are working in the ED doing admission and someone starts crashing no one cares. I have been the ICU/CCU resident and working as a team has saved lives. Nothing is more important than that. I am sure some of the medical students have witnessed such collaboration amongst all medical professionals regardless of degree. The OP is unsure and is not trying to be a jerk even if he comes off that way. Maybe since I have seen families cry when their family member died and others rejoice when seeing their family member leave the hospital alive I have a different perspective. I just feel differently about it thats all.

If you aren't comfortable with going to a DO school then do NOT go.

Best of luck

OP is not getting attacked, but receiving bit of a life lesson in how people react when you do come off like a jerk/ignorant.(jerk isn't that accurate, but Im just using the term you did)

If the kid is not comfortable, he shouldn't have applied to the school and should have figured this out sooner. He then shouldn't come expect sympathy by coming into a forum and complaining that he feels his stats are too good for what that forum is trying to achieve....this is very easy to understand.

I know you are just trying to be nice...

 

[docmayer]

OP, if you decide to attend SOM, then just know that you will have at least one classmate with a significantly higher MCAT than you.




This is so wrong. MCAT is standardized and directly compares you to your peers. It focuses less on straight regurgitation and more on critical thinking and analysis, as a good portion of the information you will need is given in the passages.

GPA can fluctuate depending on the institution, major/minor, and even professors.

Wtf? How is that wrong? Yes GPA can fluctuate based on institution but don't forget each class has a set average and that GPA scales for schools are set the way they are for a reason. MCAT has so much luck involved it is actually ridiculous. Not to mention the chance of getting ridiculous experimental passages that confused/stress the hell out of you if you get them. I had 2 on my MCAT and I can say they were the hardest/most stressful things of my life.

 

[IMDoc607]

OP is not getting attacked, but receiving bit of a life lesson in how people react when you do come off like a jerk/ignorant.(jerk isn't that accurate, but Im just using the term you did)

If the kid is not comfortable, he shouldn't have applied to the school and should have figured this out sooner. He then shouldn't come expect sympathy by coming into a forum and complaining that he feels his stats are too good for what that forum is trying to achieve....this is very easy to understand.

I know you are just trying to be nice...

Fair enough...all your points are valid. When I applied I landed up with 1 MD acceptance and 6 DO acceptances. I decided to attend my school based on personal reasons and recommendations by many physicians. I will admit that there are some limitations when applying to residencies and now fellowships but as a whole they have been few and far between. For example, I can't go apply to Mass General for my fellowship because they will probably only take grads from top med schools and residency programs. However, my school was awesome and would never trade my education for anywhere else.

Good luck guys I hope everyone gets what they want. 👍

 

[Mr Kenobi]

If the kid is not comfortable then he/she should not attend and he/she should not be attacked. If that's how they feel then so be it. I don't care if the OP or someone feels this way about attending a DO school because I am worried about more important things. I don't want to lecture to much but when you are working in the ED doing admission and someone starts crashing no one cares. I have been the ICU/CCU resident and working as a team has saved lives. Nothing is more important than that. I am sure some of the medical students have witnessed such collaboration amongst all medical professionals regardless of degree. The OP is unsure and is not trying to be a jerk even if he comes off that way. Maybe since I have seen families cry when their family member died and others rejoice when seeing their family member leave the hospital alive I have a different perspective. I just feel differently about it thats all.

If you aren't comfortable with going to a DO school then do NOT go.

Best of luck

I agree that if he feels this way then so be it.

However, I disagree that people on a forum should not be able to respond in whatever method they deem desirable. If this kid is being attacked it is because of the *****ic tactic he used presenting in the Osteopathic forum insinuating that MD is more prestigious that DO. As someone who has a sole interest in going DO, I found their approach to be both ignorant and rude (whether that was their intent or not).

Also when I am a resident physician, such as yourself, I am sure that I will have better things to worry about as well .....until then I will continue giving grief to pre med gunners in the pre med section of the forums.

P.S. May the force be with you in your fellowship endeavor.

 

[psychgirrrl]

I know that my GPA is below average for MD schools but my worry is over the fact that my GPA and MCAT are still much higher than the average DO student. I wish DO schools had higher average stats.

I know UMDNJSOM is a very good school so I was hoping others there also have a similar profile as mine. It would just be nice to know that others are in the same boat as me and that I'm not making a mistake by 'settling' with the DO instead of doing the ACP/SMP year since I don't have that much more to improve in order to qualify for an MD(statistically speaking but obviously it's a crapshoot). I don't even know if I can afford the ACP year which might make it a moot point. I just don't want to have any regrets. I hope I'm making sense..

Instead of wishing UMDNJ had higher stats why don't you work to get higher stats and get yourself into your coveted MD school. Yes it is a crapshoot but if you are gonna treat the school that is giving you a chance with this attitude then go better yourself so other schools can give you a chance.

Get over yourself.

 

[IMDoc607]

I agree that if he feels this way then so be it.

However, I disagree that people on a forum should not be able to respond in whatever method they deem desirable. If this kid is being attacked it is because of the *****ic tactic he used presenting in the Osteopathic forum insinuating that MD is more prestigious that DO. As someone who has a sole interest in going DO, I found their approach to be both ignorant and rude (whether that was their intent or not).

Also when I am a resident physician, such as yourself, I am sure that I will have better things to worry about as well .....until then I will continue giving grief to pre med gunners in the pre med section of the forums.

P.S. May the force be with you in your fellowship endeavor.

Thanks man....carry on giving grief lol...Jk 🙂

I agree the approach was ignorant but I alo would rather see the spot go to a grateful premed. Oh well I remember being in your guys shoes and I know it can e nerve wracking but I don't men to burst any bubble but it never ends!!!! Lol

Take care

 

[HalfListic]

Fair enough...all your points are valid. When I applied I landed up with 1 MD acceptance and 6 DO acceptances. I decided to attend my school based on personal reasons and recommendations by many physicians. I will admit that there are some limitations when applying to residencies and now fellowships but as a whole they have been few and far between. For example, I can't go apply to Mass General for my fellowship because they will probably only take grads from top med schools and residency programs. However, my school was awesome and would never trade my education for anywhere else.

Good luck guys I hope everyone gets what they want. 👍

Awesome, yeah, I think we see things eye to eye in general.

Good luck with your practice and career...you come across as an open minded, level headed person. Great attributes for a physician!

 

[Rezonance]

But honestly stats don't mean squat when med school starts. Everyone begins on the same page.

True, true, and true.

 

[FutureDoctorrrr]

yeah, do school = bad idea.
you're going to be a permanent outcast, walking around the hospital with your head bowed down and eyes averted in shame.
the county morgue doesn't even want you as a pathologist.
elsewhere you will live in constant fear that the end-stage comatose patient in room 109 might one day discover your real medical degree and scream in horror.
your nights will be filled with envy that the dude from ross gets to call himself an md and tell all his neighbors he's an md, and you can't.
your minimum wage salary will go to buying duct tape to cover up the initials that you despise so much.
surely the do degree shall follow you all the days of your life and you will dwell in the house of poverty and misery for ever.
get out now while you can.

Truer words were never spoken 🙂

 

[TheU12]

It's so disheartening to see people sitting on DO spots and filling them just as a safety net while trying to get into what they think are "bigger and better" schools. You really should research the school before you apply or at least let them know your not interested after you interview. Being an UD and going through this process for the second time is rough and it kills me to see people that would give anything just to get into a medical school yet they can't because other people are taking their spots who don't even want to be there. DO schools are producing great doctors now because they realize that becoming a good doctor doesn't necessarily mean having the best GPA/MCAT. If DO is not your thing...its simple....don't apply. If you really want MD then maybe you should work harder to strengthen your MCAT/GPA or gain more clinical experience. Whatever the case my be don't go clogging spots with a school you don't care about because your taking up a spot at somebody's dream school and preventing them from being a GREAT physician.

 

[MedPR]

It's so disheartening to see people sitting on DO spots and filling them just as a safety net while trying to get into what they think are "bigger and better" schools. You really should research the school before you apply or at least let them know your not interested after you interview. Being an UD and going through this process for the second time is rough and it kills me to see people that would give anything just to get into a medical school yet they can't because other people are taking their spots who don't even want to be there. DO schools are producing great doctors now because they realize that becoming a good doctor doesn't necessarily mean having the best GPA/MCAT. If DO is not your thing...its simple....don't apply. If you really want MD then maybe you should work harder to strengthen your MCAT/GPA or gain more clinical experience. Whatever the case my be don't go clogging spots with a school you don't care about because your taking up a spot at somebody's dream school and preventing them from being a GREAT physician.

Blah blah blah. Cry me a river. Spots go to the most qualified, not those who want it the most. Don't blame people with better credentials for "taking up a spot." Blame yourself for being less desirable to ADCOMs. Blame yourself for whatever your weak spots are in your application. I don't agree with the OP, and frankly I think the OP is an idiot, but that doesn't make it right or even logical for you to blame more qualified people for taking up spots. It takes more than desire to be a "GREAT" physician.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

The way it's becoming more competitive every year I believe 3.4/30s will be the new norm. Goro mentioned their school is getting close to having 30 MCAT average, probably will happen this year.

 

[toxicwombat]

Man, this thread is really going to ****... and I love how (as always) it was prefaced by "this ain't your typical MD vs DO thread"

 

[Darkskies]

Man, this thread is really going to ****... and I love how (as always) it was prefaced by "this ain't your typical MD vs DO thread"

Except it wasn't.

 

[JaBoomDay]

Darkskies, it's pretty obvious you don't want to go to this school. I really think you should be honest with yourself and make the right choices to get what you really want. I don't even know why you applied to DO schools in the first place if this is how you feel. I also don't get why you think a high MCAT makes you better than everyone else but whatever...

For a decision as huge as going to medical school, you shouldn't settle for "less" than what you want. I'm guessing you are very young. You have plenty of time to put the effort into getting into the school you want. You can do quite a lot in one year to strengthen your application. You have your whole life ahead of you and if you're really going to be this distraught over the two letters after your name then it's not worth selling yourself short and live a life in regret.

A bit of additional advice, if you were looking for sympathy this is the wrong place to do it. You came to the section of the board where many people aspire and dream to be a D.O. NOBODY likes to hear someone call their hopes and dreams as someone's downfall. It doesn't feel good and as much as you don't want to admit it, your attitude is quite insulting to the osteopathic profession. If your true intent was to find people like you with high stats going to a D.O. school, you could have easily gone to the UMDNJ Discussion thread 2011-2012 and read through who was accepted and saw their stats. Instead, you decided to call attention to yourself and I really think you got what you deserved. I think you could use a year off to grow up a little and learn to use a little tact. You'll need it when you are in a career helping people. Do yourself a favor and don't give up on your dream to be an MD. Last thing I want is a doctor who is bitter.

 

[UrshumMurshum]

To the OP I guess it depends on your residency goals, what type of doctor could you envision yourself being?

It's not impossible to specialize with a DO degree, but it becomes more difficult in an already competitive and difficult environment. However, if your interest is in primary care then being a DO would not add anymore difficulty to your ambitions. Unless of course you want to do IM residency at Mayo, which is what I want 🙂

Not quite sure how competitive that is.

 

[The kitchen sink]

darkskies, it's pretty obvious you don't want to go to this school. I really think you should be honest with yourself and make the right choices to get what you really want. I don't even know why you applied to do schools in the first place if this is how you feel. I also don't get why you think a high mcat makes you better than everyone else but whatever...

For a decision as huge as going to medical school, you shouldn't settle for "less" than what you want. I'm guessing you are very young. You have plenty of time to put the effort into getting into the school you want. You can do quite a lot in one year to strengthen your application. You have your whole life ahead of you and if you're really going to be this distraught over the two letters after your name then it's not worth selling yourself short and live a life in regret.

A bit of additional advice, if you were looking for sympathy this is the wrong place to do it. You came to the section of the board where many people aspire and dream to be a d.o. Nobody likes to hear someone call their hopes and dreams as someone's downfall. It doesn't feel good and as much as you don't want to admit it, your attitude is quite insulting to the osteopathic profession. If your true intent was to find people like you with high stats going to a d.o. School, you could have easily gone to the umdnj discussion thread 2011-2012 and read through who was accepted and saw their stats. Instead, you decided to call attention to yourself and i really think you got what you deserved. I think you could use a year off to grow up a little and learn to use a little tact. You'll need it when you are in a career helping people. Do yourself a favor and don't give up on your dream to be an md. Last thing i want is a doctor who is bitter.

+1

 

[HalfListic]

It's so disheartening to see people sitting on DO spots and filling them just as a safety net while trying to get into what they think are "bigger and better" schools. You really should research the school before you apply or at least let them know your not interested after you interview. Being an UD and going through this process for the second time is rough and it kills me to see people that would give anything just to get into a medical school yet they can't because other people are taking their spots who don't even want to be there. DO schools are producing great doctors now because they realize that becoming a good doctor doesn't necessarily mean having the best GPA/MCAT. If DO is not your thing...its simple....don't apply. If you really want MD then maybe you should work harder to strengthen your MCAT/GPA or gain more clinical experience. .

Darkskies, it's pretty obvious you don't want to go to this school. I really think you should be honest with yourself and make the right choices to get what you really want. I don't even know why you applied to DO schools in the first place if this is how you feel. I also don't get why you think a high MCAT makes you better than everyone else but whatever...

For a decision as huge as going to medical school, you shouldn't settle for "less" than what you want. I'm guessing you are very young. You have plenty of time to put the effort into getting into the school you want. You can do quite a lot in one year to strengthen your application. You have your whole life ahead of you and if you're really going to be this distraught over the two letters after your name then it's not worth selling yourself short and live a life in regret.

A bit of additional advice, if you were looking for sympathy this is the wrong place to do it. You came to the section of the board where many people aspire and dream to be a D.O. NOBODY likes to hear someone call their hopes and dreams as someone's downfall. It doesn't feel good and as much as you don't want to admit it, your attitude is quite insulting to the osteopathic profession. If your true intent was to find people like you with high stats going to a D.O. school, you could have easily gone to the UMDNJ Discussion thread 2011-2012 and read through who was accepted and saw their stats. Instead, you decided to call attention to yourself and I really think you got what you deserved. I think you could use a year off to grow up a little and learn to use a little tact. You'll need it when you are in a career helping people. Do yourself a favor and don't give up on your dream to be an MD. Last thing I want is a doctor who is bitter.

👍

 

[aDOdoctor]

I'm confused. You are upset that the school's averages are slightly lower than yours, but you yourself don't have the stats to get into any MD programs. Isn't that your fault and not the school's? .___.

So students who have 3.9 GPAs and 36 MCAT scores... I guess they should be upset since they are going to be way above and beyond most of their peers in medical school?

This whole thread confuses me.

 

[MedPR]

Darkskies, it's pretty obvious you don't want to go to this school. I really think you should be honest with yourself and make the right choices to get what you really want. I don't even know why you applied to DO schools in the first place if this is how you feel. I also don't get why you think a high MCAT makes you better than everyone else but whatever...

For a decision as huge as going to medical school, you shouldn't settle for "less" than what you want. I'm guessing you are very young. You have plenty of time to put the effort into getting into the school you want. You can do quite a lot in one year to strengthen your application. You have your whole life ahead of you and if you're really going to be this distraught over the two letters after your name then it's not worth selling yourself short and live a life in regret.

A bit of additional advice, if you were looking for sympathy this is the wrong place to do it. You came to the section of the board where many people aspire and dream to be a D.O. NOBODY likes to hear someone call their hopes and dreams as someone's downfall. It doesn't feel good and as much as you don't want to admit it, your attitude is quite insulting to the osteopathic profession. If your true intent was to find people like you with high stats going to a D.O. school, you could have easily gone to the UMDNJ Discussion thread 2011-2012 and read through who was accepted and saw their stats. Instead, you decided to call attention to yourself and I really think you got what you deserved. I think you could use a year off to grow up a little and learn to use a little tact. You'll need it when you are in a career helping people. Do yourself a favor and don't give up on your dream to be an MD. Last thing I want is a doctor who is bitter.

DO is a backup for lots of MD applicants. Get used to it.

I'm confused. You are upset that the school's averages are slightly lower than yours, but you yourself don't have the stats to get into any MD programs. Isn't that your fault and not the school's? .___.

So students who have 3.9 GPAs and 36 MCAT scores... I guess they should be upset since they are going to be way above and beyond most of their peers in medical school?

This whole thread confuses me.

+1

 

[JaBoomDay]

DO is a backup for lots of MD applicants. Get used to it.


+1

I am well aware thank you.
Can you please let it go? I don't get why you have to keep jamming your opinion down my throat. We obviously differ and that's fine. I respect your opinion so can you please just agree to disagree with me and move on? This is getting SO old. Or do you plan on trolling on me every where I post and continually try to correct me?

My post to the OP was to point out that he was expecting sympathy after insulting people. Whether you agree with my opinion or not, it doesn't matter. That wasn't the point.

 

[MedPR]

I am well aware thank you.
Can you please let it go? I don't get why you have to keep jamming your opinion down my throat. We obviously differ and that's fine. I respect your opinion so can you please just agree to disagree with me and move on? This is getting SO old. Or do you plan on trolling on me every where I post and continually try to correct me?

My post to the OP was to point out that he was expecting sympathy after insulting people. Whether you agree with my opinion or not, it doesn't matter. That wasn't the point.

So when I share my opinion, I'm trolling and jamming it down your throat. But when you share your opinion it's fine? Ok, cool story.

The OP isn't really insulting anyone. He thinks his stats are better than the average DO student (which is actually kind of true given his MCAT), and wants to know if there are others in the same boat. There are DO students who had higher pre-med stats than the OP. There are also lots of people with lower stats and people with the same stats.


The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority.

 

[HalfListic]

DO is a backup for lots of MD applicants. Get used to it.

Yeah, I dont think her comment had much to do about that, rather to show that the way we present ourselves, matters. The setting as well.

But, this thread is getting pretty redundant at this point

There's really no need to insult

 

[The kitchen sink]

The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority.

What do you suggest we do then? Let misinformed pre-meds keep insulting DOs in our own thread? I dont want to perpetuate the argument any further, but its just a matter of being misinformed more than anything else.

I'm sure it stings to not get into MD when thats what you wanted, but I can't speak on that because I only applied to the one DO school of my choice, but we are just trying to tell the OP that even if he feels this way prior to matriculating into a DO school, more likely than not once he meets his peers in class, and once he starts enduring the coursework, he will not feel this way and actually be happy with his decision. Honestly, once your in med school there isnt time to be pitying over yourself because you never got the letters MD behind your name, you will be worried about way more important things. No harm meant to be done towards the OP, if thats how I came off.

 

[JaBoomDay]

So when I share my opinion, I'm trolling and jamming it down your throat. But when you share your opinion it's fine? Ok, cool story.

The OP isn't really insulting anyone. He thinks his stats are better than the average DO student (which is actually kind of true given his MCAT), and wants to know if there are others in the same boat. There are DO students who had higher pre-med stats than the OP. There are also lots of people with lower stats and people with the same stats.


The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority.

It just never ends. LOL. This is seriously laughable. There's really no point in bothering with you. I can only hope that you can drop the subject one day.

 

[JaBoomDay]

So when I share my opinion, I'm trolling and jamming it down your throat. But when you share your opinion it's fine? Ok, cool story.

The OP isn't really insulting anyone. He thinks his stats are better than the average DO student (which is actually kind of true given his MCAT), and wants to know if there are others in the same boat. There are DO students who had higher pre-med stats than the OP. There are also lots of people with lower stats and people with the same stats.


The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority.

I have seen you share your opinion with others on the board and have left it alone. I don't follow you around the forum and correct you every single time your opinion differs from mine. That's the difference.

Also I've never "blamed" anyone for my "inferiority." Not sure where you're getting that from either. Honestly, what's your problem? How many times do I have to tell you that I respect your opinion even though it differs from mine?

 

[oms2]

people who come to this forum to belittle and insult do school applicants should not expect red carpet treatment.

 

[touchpause13]

The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority.

That's a really odd line of reasoning... Here's the thing, if someone calls me a d*ke I'm not upset because I feel inferior about my sexuality, I'm upset because that person sees being gay is a bad/inferior thing.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority.

 

[touchpause13]

+1

 

[MedPR]

That's a really odd line of reasoning... Here's the thing, if someone calls me a d*ke I'm not upset because I feel inferior about my sexuality, I'm upset because that person sees being gay is a bad/inferior thing.

So you're upset by the other person's opinion, not by the fact that they are using a derogatory word to describe you?

Why do you care so much about their opinion?

Edit: I don't think my reasoning is odd at all. Consider this. You meet someone from a culture where big ears are valued as a sign of maturity, wisdom, and strength. Here in America people put others down for having big ears. If you make what you think is a mean joke about his ears, he's not going to care because, in his mind, his ears are awesome. If people truly think DO is awesome, they wouldn't be offended everytime there is a discussion about DO being a backup or DO having lower stats or whatever. Does that make sense?

In my mind, DO is the second best option to MD. MD is the easier route and there are more readily available options for MD students than for DO students. Does that make a DO student inferior to an MD student? Of course not. Does that make MD school superior to DO school? In some ways yes, in others, no. I just don't understand why people get so worked up about "MD>DO". ESPECIALLY those (JaBoomDay) who claim they are choosing DO over MD.

 

[HalfListic]

I hate to add to this discussion...but I have to disagree. I think DO is great, but I'll defend it when it's insulted

 

[nicolemsm]

I hate to add to this discussion...but I have to disagree. I think DO is great, but I'll defend it when it's insulted

👍 x infinity

 

[MedPR]

I hate to add to this discussion...but I have to disagree. I think DO is great, but I'll defend it when it's insulted

So will I, but I'm not going to take offense to it like the others are. All this time I've been saying there's nothing wrong with DO school. There are more benefits to MD, but that doesn't make DO a bad option.

I completely disagree with the sentiment that an individual who would prefer MD is "taking up a spot" at a DO school. Very few people prefer to be a DO, therefore most everyone at DO schools would have gone to an MD school given the opportunity. Whether or not GPA/MCAT has any correlation to how good of a physician one becomes is irrelevent. What's relevent is the fact that everyone knows GPA/MCAT are the most important aspect of your application. It's no secret. If you, for whatever reason, have a subpar GPA/MCAT, you have no one to blame but yourself. You certainly should not be blaming higher stat applicants for "taking your spot."

 

[HalfListic]

So will I, but I'm not going to take offense to it like the others are. All this time I've been saying there's nothing wrong with DO school. There are more benefits to MD, but that doesn't make DO a bad option.

I completely disagree with the sentiment that an individual who would prefer MD is "taking up a spot" at a DO school. Very few people prefer to be a DO, therefore most everyone at DO schools would have gone to an MD school given the opportunity. Whether or not GPA/MCAT has any correlation to how good of a physician one becomes is irrelevent. What's relevent is the fact that everyone knows GPA/MCAT are the most important aspect of your application. It's no secret. If you, for whatever reason, have a subpar GPA/MCAT, you have no one to blame but yourself. You certainly should not be blaming higher stat applicants for "taking your spot."

We almost alway see eye to eye, and I agree with this comment (above)

The issue I take is with this (and similar) comments...which are out of character for you, as far as I know:

"The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority."

Maybe you have a beef with JaBoomDay...but oh well...this will blow over.

 

[The kitchen sink]

Nonetheless, bottom line is you should do what you want, MD or DO. Don't 'settle'. I believe this is the sentiment MedPR is trying to convey. And he is right in that going MD, you are afforded more opportunities in general to pursue the line of medicine (as far as residency options) you want in the future. The question is do you risk the opportunity of foregoing a year and risking your GPA to get into an MD school or take the opportunity that this DO school gave you and become a fully competent practicing physician in the future. In a sense, thats an advantage that DO school gives certain students... a chance that otherwise would have never presented itself. That is why so many DOs become successful, they decided not to squander the opportunity.

 

[MedPR]

We almost alway see eye to eye, and I agree with this comment (above)

The issue I take is with this (and similar) comments...which are out of character for you, as far as I know:

"The fact that you are insulted by people calling DO inferior means that you believe DO is inferior and it hurts your feelings that you can't get MD. Suck it up and stop blaming others for your inferiority."

Maybe you have a beef with JaBoomDay...but oh well...this will blow over.

In the beginning of the cycle I thought I would feel inferior as a DO. How did I deal with it? Exactly how I tell people on SDN to deal with it. If you think DO is beneath you, then either come to terms with it or do whatever it takes to get into MD. Regardless of where I end up, my stats are inferior to thousands of MD applicants. In addition, there will be MD matriculants who have even lower stats than me, but for whatever reason, they are more qualified than I am. Am I going to blame them (or the ADCOM) for "taking my spot"? Of course not. Had I been a better student, a better person, a better applicant, I would've gotten that spot on my own merit. If someone is better than me, so be it. Suck it up, accept that they're better, and move the hell on.

And, for the record, I stand by the comment you have in italics. My reasoning is given in the example regarding big ears. There are some things I'm self conscious about, and other things I'm not self conscious about. If someone teases me about one of those things I'm not self conscious about, I'm not going to be offended. The opposite is true if I get teased about something I'm self conscious about. Am I self conscious about my 2.65 UG GPA? Nope. Am I self conscious about my current 3.2 GPA? Nope. They're both terribly low and pretty embarrassing, but if somoene gives me a hard time about it I'm not going to be offended because I accept that I messed up and put myself in that position.

Nonetheless, bottom line is you should do what you want, MD or DO. Don't 'settle'. I believe this is the sentiment MedPR is trying to convey. And he is right in that going MD, you are afforded more opportunities in general to pursue the line of medicine (as far as residency options) you want in the future. The question is do you risk the opportunity of foregoing a year and risking your GPA to get into an MD school or take the opportunity that this DO school gave you and become a fully competent practicing physician in the future. In a sense, thats an advantage that DO school gives certain students... a chance that otherwise would have never presented itself. That is why so many DOs become successful, they decided not to squander the opportunity.

+1

 

[The kitchen sink]

In the beginning of the cycle I thought I would feel inferior as a DO. How did I deal with it? Exactly how I tell people on SDN to deal with it. If you think DO is beneath you, then either come to terms with it or do whatever it takes to get into MD. Regardless of where I end up, my stats are inferior to thousands of MD applicants. In addition, there will be MD matriculants who have even lower stats than me, but for whatever reason, they are more qualified than I am. Am I going to blame them (or the ADCOM) for "taking my spot"? Of course not. Had I been a better student, a better person, a better applicant, I would've gotten that spot on my own merit. If someone is better than me, so be it. Suck it up, accept that they're better, and move the hell on.

And, for the record, I stand by the comment you have in italics. My reasoning is given in the example regarding big ears. There are some things I'm self conscious about, and other things I'm not self conscious about. If someone teases me about one of those things I'm not self conscious about, I'm not going to be offended. The opposite is true if I get teased about something I'm self conscious about. Am I self conscious about my 2.65 UG GPA? Nope. Am I self conscious about my current 3.2 GPA? Nope. They're both terribly low and pretty embarrassing, but if somoene gives me a hard time about it I'm not going to be offended because I accept that I messed up and put myself in that position.



+1

It is always good to be able to accept responsibility for your actions. I agree with your post for the most part. But i just wanted to clarify that, yes maybe at the time of your application to MD school, there were 'better' applicants than you. But once your done with MD or DO, and a licensed practicing physician, there is no way you will view another physician 'better' than you because they graduated from MD school and you from a DO school. If they are in fact better, it will be because of the type of physician, work ethic, leadership, clinical acumen and tons of other qualities.

 

[MedPR]

It is always good to be able to accept responsibility for your actions. I agree with your post for the most part. But i just wanted to clarify that, yes maybe at the time of your application to MD school, there were 'better' applicants than you. But once your done with MD or DO, and a licensed practicing physician, there is no way you will view another physician 'better' than you because they graduated from MD school and you from a DO school. If they are in fact better, it will be because of the type of physician, work ethic, leadership, clinical acumen and tons of other qualities.

I agree completely.

 

[Darkskies]

I agree completely.

MedPR, I agree with every single one of your comments. I had written a long post basically conveying the same but then my computer glitched and everything was deleted before I could post it. Like you've said, DO is perfectly fine but it is almost ALWAYS a second choice since in practice DOs are exactly the same as MDs except have fewer opportunities.

I wonder how it's possible that I've insulted others just because I stated some hard facts and brought up the stats of the average DO. Is there a more tactful way to do this? The reason people think I'm insulting them is because the facts I bring up hurt their ego/feelings. It's somewhat of an immature response seeing as I will gladly admit that my GPA is below average for MD and if I'd studied harder I might have had a better application. I don't think anyone is insulting me by telling me that my GPA is lower than average for MD admits or that getting a C- in a prereq still means I got a C- even if I retook the class later for an A.

I won't try to cover up my GPA issue by saying that I'm a more holistic applicant and that is why I should get in or lie to myself in some other way, lol.

To the people who keep bringing up that they are ONLY applying to DO schools, how does that make you special? Because, you believe in the degree and its uniqueness and don't want the MD? You're just deluding yourselves(most likely because you are not competitive for an MD) since in practice the two are exactly the same except DOs have fewer opportunities in obtaining ACGME residencies/specialties and learn OMM which hardly anyone uses. Nothing I've said yet should be offensive. I'm not competitive for an MD based on my current application either since I didn't get in.

There should be no reason for attacking me and what I've posted on this thread. I would prefer the MD and based on my stats another year of great performance in an SMP should be enough to qualify me for an acceptance to an MD school(though it's a crapshoot). However, waiting another year, coming up with the funds(main problem with the ACP), and the slight riskiness of an SMP are the negatives that are swaying me in the DO direction. I don't think I would be interested in surgical specialties which are the main ones DO students have a huge disadvantage in obtaining(ACGME anyways), so most specialties that I would be interested in would still be open to me as a DO student. This is also a positive but on the other hand, if I wanted to go to a prestigious residency in one of these specialties it would be harder to obtain as a DO as well. In any case though, I would still be able to get trained in a specialty of my choice and practice it.

I think I can come to terms with being a DO but after reading the comments on this thread and the posts on other threads in this forum, one of the biggest headaches I'll have to face are DO students who have a chip on their shoulder and must respond to it by deluding themselves on how unique their degree is/how they only wanted DO/how they are different from MDs instead of admitting that it was a chance for them to go to medical school and that their stats were not good enough for an MD at the time of application(though they might have taken advantage of their DO degree and improved greatly in med school). On top of that, they think I'm the one with the chip on my shoulder, lol. It's a really immature and unintelligent way to act and think, guys. Instead of making me feel better it makes me feel worse since only a certain type of person who can't think rationally would act this way. I really hope I don't run into a lot of these types of people at school if(most likely I will be) I go DO.

 

[HalfListic]

I find it difficult to understand why you guys don't get what this is about.

To put it very simply, this is about how to communicate in a professional, respectful way.

Most of the ideas presented are fine. No one argues them. So, you'd have to think You're missing something, right?

 

[Darkskies]

I find it difficult to understand why you guys don't get what this is about.

To put it very simply, this is about how to communicate in a professional, respectful way.

Most of the ideas presented are fine. No one argues them. So, you'd have to think You're missing something, right?

How have I not communicated in a professional,respectful way? Because, I've made statements that don't jive with someone's ego? Mentioning that the average DO student has a 3.4/27 MCAT is not offensive or insulting but only a fact.

If anything many commenters have been insulting me, especially Kenobi who basically threatened me with physical assault, lol.

Anyway, I don't want this to be a big argument. I only would like some more insight on my situation.

 

[MedPR]

I wonder how it's possible that I've insulted others just because I stated some hard facts and brought up the stats of the average DO. Is there a more tactful way to do this? The reason people think I'm insulting them is because the facts I bring up hurt their ego/feelings. It's somewhat of an immature response seeing as I will gladly admit that my GPA is below average for MD and if I'd studied harder I might have had a better application. I don't think anyone is insulting me by telling me that my GPA is lower than average for MD admits or that getting a C- in a prereq still means I got a C- even if I retook the class later for an A.

I won't try to cover up my GPA issue by saying that I'm a more holistic applicant and that is why I should get in or lie to myself in some other way, lol.

To the people who keep bringing up that they are ONLY applying to DO schools, how does that make you special? Because, you believe in the degree and its uniqueness and don't want the MD? You're just deluding yourselves(most likely because you are not competitive for an MD) since in practice the two are exactly the same except DOs have fewer opportunities in obtaining ACGME residencies/specialties and learn OMM which hardly anyone uses. Nothing I've said yet should be offensive. I'm not competitive for an MD based on my current application either since I didn't get in.

I only want to address a few parts of your post. There is always a more tactful way to say something, but I don't think it's necessary in a situation like this. For the most part I think people were offended because, as you say, not everyone has accepted that they are below average statistically. However, I don't think it helped that your original post was written in a way that seemed like you thought you were better (though you explicitly stated that wasn't your intention) than them because of your higher-than-average MCAT score.

If memory serves me correctly, you and I are part of a small pool of pre-DO SDNers who have a low GPA rather than a low MCAT. No, I'm not saying that high mcat/low gpa is better than low mcat/high gpa. I'm saying that it is less common on this forum. I guess it's a touchy subject, though like you, I don't really understand why. My GPA sucks because of my own mistakes. If someone wants to throw their Ivy school BS Biochem degree and 4.0 in my face, that's quite alright with me. Not everyone shares that opinion though. In fact, it seems that most people are automatically offended by someone with higher stats.

Again, I agree with you regarding not disguising myself or my GPA as something else. I have a low GPA. It is what it is.

And I agree about your DO vs MD argument. I get that some people apply only to nearby schools/in-state schools and for some that limits their options to DO. However, someone applying to DO all over the country and not MD schools is probably just not competitive and is wisely saving their money.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

That's a really odd line of reasoning... Here's the thing, if someone calls me a d*ke I'm not upset because I feel inferior about my sexuality, I'm upset because that person sees being gay is a bad/inferior thing.

Eh, apples to oranges. You were born gay, people were not born to be osteopathic doctors.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I hate to add to this discussion...but I have to disagree. I think DO is great, but I'll defend it when it's insulted

I'll defend DO's. Well, except the OMM residents.

Point is, you go to a DO school, maybe because you couldn't get into a MD school. Big deal. Be the best doctor you can regardless of your degree, but please god, do not remember the date when A.T Still cast the banner of osteopathy to the wind.