DO's working in industry

[check1099]

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I have an acceptance to a DO school for matriculation in the Fall. As a physician, I hope to work in industry (for example, at tech companies, medical device firms, pharmaceuticals, etc...) and be involved in medical-based innovation as many physicians these days are. Since DO is a bit less known than MD, would I still be able to do this with a DO degree? Have you seen others pursue this career path with a DO degree?

 

[Hopeful101]

Probably other non MD/DO degrees that are better for that. I can't imagine going through this **** without doing something clinical. They train you (brutally) to do clinical work and not much else....Have you done a lot of research on what you'd want to get hired for and if doing medical school =/- residency is how people traditionally get those jobs?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I mean they're there. Some are involved in FDA and administration. Industry is a less common path.

 

[check1099]

Probably other non MD/DO degrees that are better for that. I can't imagine going through this **** without doing something clinical. They train you (brutally) to do clinical work and not much else....Have you done a lot of research on what you'd want to get hired for and if doing medical school =/- residency is how people traditionally get those jobs?

Thanks for your response! Yes I've done extensive research into this, especially since I've worked with and seen countless doctors with similar career trajectories as I hope mine to be. (If you're interested, you can take a look at peer-reviewed research papers from any medical research company (big pharma, or small startup), boards at venture capital firms, C-suite executives at any company, etc...) My only concern was that everyone I have worked with in these alternative career trajectories were MD's, so I was just curious if DO's also pursue this route, and if there are any challenges/suggestions for a potential DO candidate.

A useful link:

Doctors as disruptors? AMA CEO says medicine’s future demands it

Physicians must lead the way by ensuring that disruptive innovations improve patient care, says AMA CEO James L. Madara, MD.

www.ama-assn.org

 

[Goro]

I have an acceptance to a DO school for matriculation in the Fall. As a physician, I hope to work in industry (for example, at tech companies, medical device firms, pharmaceuticals, etc...) and be involved in medical-based innovation as many physicians these days are. Since DO is a bit less known than MD, would I still be able to do this with a DO degree? Have you seen others pursue this career path with a DO degree?

Not with any of my grads.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Check out the Digital health track at RVU.

 

[check1099]

Check out the Digital health track at RVU.

Sounds awesome! Unfortunately it is too late for me to apply this year for this cycle. Thanks for your comment and time though!

 

[RapidEyeMovementLearning]

I'm sure it's possible but these positions often require board certification of some sort. At that point it doesn't become worth it. You'd get the same opportunities as a PhD with less debt too.

 

[deleted610572]

Even if it was MD, as you’ve seen before, what would the benefit be doing the medschool route vs going PhD as stated above? If you are 100% sure in industry. It will be more direct and save you a couple hundred thousand dollars in debt

 

[Osminog]

If you’re interested in industry/healthcare innovation but not clinical practice, you’d be far, far better off getting an MBA from a top b-school or a graduate degree in a biotech-related field.

 

[nicesecrets]

Hi, I am a PhD who works in industry and I work with a few DOs. Not as many DOs as MDs, but there are definitely DOs who get into industry. Doesn't seem to be a barrier, although as one commentor said above, usual expectation is that the DO/MD is board certified.

Also to clarify something else that someone said above, the jobs for DO/MD in industry are much different than a PhD. For example, industry requires a clinician not a PhD to sign off on all clinical studies, even healthy volunteer. Physicians also run the pharmacovigilance, safety and many other depts in industry that a PhD cannot touch since it is out of their expertise. We even have some MDs/DOs who continue to see patients or have some clinical exposure while working in the industry so that they can maintain their clinical knowledge.. finally while debt is an important consideration, industry jobs pay quite well

 

[deleted610572]

Hi, I am a PhD who works in industry and I work with a few DOs. Not as many DOs as MDs, but there are definitely DOs who get into industry. Doesn't seem to be a barrier, although as one commentor said above, usual expectation is that the DO/MD is board certified.

Also to clarify something else that someone said above, the jobs for DO/MD in industry are much different than a PhD. For example, industry requires a clinician not a PhD to sign off on all clinical studies, even healthy volunteer. Physicians also run the pharmacovigilance, safety and many other depts in industry that a PhD cannot touch since it is out of their expertise. We even have some MDs/DOs who continue to see patients or have some clinical exposure while working in the industry so that they can maintain their clinical knowledge.. finally while debt is an important consideration, industry jobs pay quite well

Nice to know! Thanks. When you say pays quite well..? Many students are coming out of med school with 300k+ in debt. What would you say the norm for physicians in industry would be salary wise?

 

[nicesecrets]

Nice to know! Thanks. When you say pays quite well..? Many students are coming out of med school with 300k+ in debt. What would you say the norm for physicians in industry would be salary wise?

It is hard to give an exact number without considering the speciality and the location, but as a rough estimate.. for someone who is board certified with no additional experience, perhaps a range of 250-350 starting with benefits (read lots of stocks and options). I am not sure how the salary compares to clinical practice but honestly the real money is in the stocks.. An MD friend of mine who had about 3 years of experience in industry recently joined a new pharma company who offered her half a mil in stock as a sign on bonus.
The lifestyle in pharma also tends to be much more relaxed, 9-5 most days and the opportunity to publish extensively and travel.

 

[deleted610572]

It is hard to give an exact number without considering the speciality and the location, but as a rough estimate.. for someone who is board certified with no additional experience, perhaps a range of 250-350 starting with benefits (read lots of stocks and options). I am not sure how the salary compare to clinical practice but honestly the real money is in the stocks.. An MD friend of mine who had about 3 years of experience in industry recently joined a new pharma company who offered her half a mil in stock as a sign on bonus.
The lifestyle in pharma also tends to be much more relaxed, 9-5 most days and the opportunity to publish extensively and travel.

If this is the norm then why in heck are any of us doing clinical work lolol

 

[nicesecrets]

If this is the norm then why in heck are any of us doing clinical work lolol

I have heard that it may be hard for all specialities to find an industry job. For eg, there are lot of opportunities for oncologists and neurologists in industry but less for family docs/IM with no specialization etc. This also goes hand in hand with the expectation of some research experience for industry jobs, preferably during residency..

 

[nicesecrets]

If this is the norm then why in heck are any of us doing clinical work lolol

And also sometimes you miss not being at the bedside with the actual patient 🙂 honestly, as someone who has 3 years industry experience, that is why I'm preparing to apply to med school now.. I love my work in industry but I realized that I just needed more

 

[check1099]

Hi, I am a PhD who works in industry and I work with a few DOs. Not as many DOs as MDs, but there are definitely DOs who get into industry. Doesn't seem to be a barrier, although as one commentor said above, usual expectation is that the DO/MD is board certified.

Also to clarify something else that someone said above, the jobs for DO/MD in industry are much different than a PhD. For example, industry requires a clinician not a PhD to sign off on all clinical studies, even healthy volunteer. Physicians also run the pharmacovigilance, safety and many other depts in industry that a PhD cannot touch since it is out of their expertise. We even have some MDs/DOs who continue to see patients or have some clinical exposure while working in the industry so that they can maintain their clinical knowledge.. finally while debt is an important consideration, industry jobs pay quite well

Thank you for your comment and for clarifying for the rest of users on this thread. There are lots of DOs/MDs in industry, and the demand is simply growing due to the rise in healthcare technology infrastructure and innovation. Worked with many myself so am well aware of that. But very good to know that you have seen DOs in industry as well! Gives me some hope

 

[nicesecrets]

Thank you for your comment and for clarifying for the rest of users on this thread. There are lots of DOs/MDs in industry, and the demand is simply growing due to the rise in healthcare technology infrastructure and innovation. Worked with many myself so am well aware of that. But very good to know that you have seen DOs in industry as well! Gives me some hope

Sure thing 🙂 I have been on SDN for a while now and seen the seemingly endless debate of DO versus MD but in industry just as in practice, after you specialize and get the board certification, the letters behind your name are insignificant. Honestly, there may even be more DOs in industry than I even know because many don't even share their credentials..

 

[nicesecrets]

I have an acceptance to a DO school for matriculation in the Fall. As a physician, I hope to work in industry (for example, at tech companies, medical device firms, pharmaceuticals, etc...) and be involved in medical-based innovation as many physicians these days are. Since DO is a bit less known than MD, would I still be able to do this with a DO degree? Have you seen others pursue this career path with a DO degree?

Also, to add something else to your question.. if you are interested in the medical side of industry (eg. Medical director, therapeutic area lead, even discovery physician) then a residency is required. However, if you are interested in the innovation aspect from a strategy or business perspective, I know MDs who just go on the business/consulting track after med school and then go into strategy and business development in the industry. From my perspective, there shouldn't have to be a DO barrier for this type of role either.. sorry for piling on with another comment, but it is a different track that some might find interesting 🙂

 

[check1099]

Also, to add something else to your question.. if you are interested in the medical side of industry (eg. Medical director, therapeutic area lead, even discovery physician) then a residency is required. However, if you are interested in the innovation aspect from a strategy or business perspective, I know MDs who just go on the business/consulting track after med school and then go into strategy and business development in the industry. From my perspective, there shouldn't have to be a DO barrier for this type of role either.. sorry for piling on with another comment, but it is a different track that some might find interesting 🙂

Thank you for your comment. I completely agree with your line of thinking as I have seen people pursue both pathways. Lots of stanford/harvard md/mba’s typically go straight into management consulting, venture capital, etc.. without a residency. I think I will choose to do a residency first however since I like the innovation aspect, and then slowly move into venture capital as I also enjoy helping others to create a vast impact in this world. If you’re interested, here’s an interesting article on the dearth of physician innovators and why we need more doctors that think outside the box A dearth of physician innovators can derail new biomedical startups - STAT

 

[MisterMukwa]

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[Wjldenver]

In the consulting industry, 99% of the time, I will see the MBA/MD combination for folks who work in the health care vertical. Typically, it will be MD/MBA/Ph.D. combinations from T-20 schools. Refer to the link from McKinsey's Healthcare Systems & Services vertical to see the background of the people who they typically hire. I personally have never ran across any consultant in Healthcare Systems & Services with a DO degree. This has typically been true in industry as well.

Our People

Meet our Healthcare Systems & Services leaders and experts.

www.mckinsey.com

 

[check1099]

In the consulting industry, 99% of the time, I will see the MBA/MD combination for folks who work in the health care vertical. Typically, it will be MD/MBA/Ph.D. combinations from T-20 schools. Refer to the link from McKinsey's Healthcare Systems & Services vertical to see the background of the people who they typically hire. I personally have never ran across any consultant in Healthcare Systems & Services with a DO degree. This has typically been true in industry as well.

Our People

Meet our Healthcare Systems & Services leaders and experts.

www.mckinsey.com

Oh thats too bad. Guess I’ll have to be the trailblazer then

 

[check1099]

I currently work for a surgical device company in sales, 99% of our consultants are MDs. This makes sense, considering that big name surgeons at academic centers are typically MD. Not saying it would be impossible, but the odds are definitely not in your favor as a DO consultant (in a surgical field, at least).

That statistic makes sense. However you must also control for the fact that the overall physician population is 90/10 MD-DO.

 

[Choсolate]

As a slightly off topic question, I initially wanted to go to medical school, but then decided that I would rather get an M.S. in Biomedical Sciences. Like OP originally stated, I would like to be involved with things that OP mentioned: "(for example, at tech companies, medical device firms, pharmaceuticals, etc...) and be involved in medical-based innovation." Stuff like that.
For those who have experience in these fields, have you come across people with master's doing these sort of things or is it delegated only to the PhDs and MDs?

 

[nicesecrets]

As a slightly off topic question, I initially wanted to go to medical school, but then decided that I would rather get an M.S. in Biomedical Sciences. Like OP originally stated, I would like to be involved with things that OP mentioned: "(for example, at tech companies, medical device firms, pharmaceuticals, etc...) and be involved in medical-based innovation." Stuff like that.
For those who have experience in these fields, have you come across people with master's doing these sort of things or is it delegated only to the PhDs and MDs?

Hi, it depends on what you would like to do within the company and the extent to which you want to "lead" the effort. For example, most of the research-heavy roles will be limited to PhDs or MDs as will leadership roles. However, there are still a lot of people in the industry who do not have doctoral degrees and do innovative work.. you may initially be able to get your foot in the door in a role that is not the best fit, but if you show interest and potential you may be able to switch within the industry and get a role that you are more interested in. I hope this helps 🙂

 

[check1099]

I agree with nicesecrets response. It mainly depends on the kind of work and leadership position you'd like. Typically, physicians in an industry setting will lead a group of engineers and/or scientists to achieve an innovative goal if in a research setting. There are tons of MS's, however they simply serve in a different capacity, i.e. more technical engineering, product development, lower level business development, etc... The PhD's will serve in a more research capacity, while the physicians (MD/DO) will serve to connect the research, clinical, and in sometimes, technology side, in order to roll out the product that most closely aligns with the patient's needs.

 

[Choсolate]

Hi, it depends on what you would like to do within the company and the extent to which you want to "lead" the effort. For example, most of the research-heavy roles will be limited to PhDs or MDs as will leadership roles. However, there are still a lot of people in the industry who do not have doctoral degrees and do innovative work.. you may initially be able to get your foot in the door in a role that is not the best fit, but if you show interest and potential you may be able to switch within the industry and get a role that you are more interested in. I hope this helps 🙂

Thank you for the response👍. Also, to throw this out there, to be more specific, I would be interested in anything relating to vaccine development and developing novel treatments for illnesses. It seems that with an M.S. in Biomedical sciences, that the prospects and the amount of doors that are open to me are extremely limited, yet with the right amount of charisma I can force my foot through a door later on after I have experience working somewhere that I might have no passion for. That sounds kind of unfortunate because I'm not a pushy sort of person.

 

[Choсolate]

I agree with nicesecrets response. It mainly depends on the kind of work and leadership position you'd like. Typically, physicians in an industry setting will lead a group of engineers and/or scientists to achieve an innovative goal if in a research setting. There are tons of MS's, however they simply serve in a different capacity, i.e. more technical engineering, product development, lower level business development, etc... The PhD's will serve in a more research capacity, while the physicians (MD/DO) will serve to connect the research, clinical, and in sometimes, technology side, in order to roll out the product that most closely aligns with the patient's needs.

What you described as the role of the physician sounds like my dream career lol. What am I doing with my life that I don't pursue arduous yet lifelong aspirations? 😆

 

[nicesecrets]

Thank you for the response👍. Also, to throw this out there, to be more specific, I would be interested in anything relating to vaccine development and developing novel treatments for illnesses. It seems that with an M.S. in Biomedical sciences, that the prospects and the amount of doors that are open to me are extremely limited, yet with the right amount of charisma I can force my foot through a door later on after I have experience working somewhere that I might have no passion for. That sounds kind of unfortunate because I'm not a pushy sort of person.

No I wouldn't say that.. There can be anywhere from hundreds to tens of thousands of people working in the pharmaceutical industry, and we are all working towards the same goal of developing a novel treatment for illness.. the question is, how do you want to contribute to this goal?

The difference between MD/PhD and BS/MS in the industry is that generally MDs and PhDs start off at a higher level of responsibility and leadership in their role. They may be able to take bigger decisions within the industry and because they have specialized degrees, they can start off in the industry doing what they want to (or what they were trained to do) at a high level. In contrast if you have a BS, you may be limited to certain roles only such as lab based jobs, and ultimately you have a ceiling for how far you can go in your career because you will have to always be supervised by someone with a PhD/MD. An MS gives you a little more leeway than a BS for sure, though there is still a ceiling. Specifically with the MS in biomedical sciences, you could easily enter the clinical development side of an industry and really do some interesting work reporting to an MD. For eg, I work with many with the MS degree who write protocols for clinical studies and work in cross-functional teams to advance novel therapeutics. So you can definitely avail of such a role. The only thing to keep in mind is that such roles are quite desirable and competitive, and the chances are that they usually require prior industry experience. So when you first apply to the industry, you may only be able to get a supplemental role. That is, instead of writing protocols for clinical studies, you may get a role where you plan the operational aspects of a clinical study. While it may not be what you exactly want to do, generally the roles are not that different that you will be stuck in something where you have NO passion.