Double 99's and still no prelim spot!!!

[MDF1]

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Has this ever happened in the history of the match/scramble?? I ranked 4 prelim spots in the regular match, and have applied thru ERAS to 15 new programs including surgery medicine and TY. While calling others, emailing/faxing info to anyone who requested it. Still trying to call and email and getting next to nowhere. Any suggestions?? What happens with these ERAS applications?? Do they call us?? Im so disappointed with how this is going. Thanks for any advice.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

yeah all those people all these years I've been seeing around these forums saying "don't worry if you don't match prelim you'll just get something in the scramble" were completely talking out of their ass.

Only 58 positions in the entire northeast to vie for. Thats Fing ridiculous.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Has this ever happened in the history of the match/scramble?? I ranked 4 prelim spots in the regular match, and have applied thru ERAS to 15 new programs including surgery medicine and TY. While calling others, emailing/faxing info to anyone who requested it. Still trying to call and email and getting next to nowhere. Any suggestions?? What happens with these ERAS applications?? Do they call us?? Im so disappointed with how this is going. Thanks for any advice.

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees and as you show, numbers aren't everything. The process, from medical school admission to residency and beyond, can seem really random - people you think will match don't, and there are suprise matches every year. So while it seems like we're "completely out of our ass" when we talk about getting a position in the scramble, there are some identifiable reasons why applicants don't:

1) obviously red flags in an application is the most important - it can be grades, USMLE scores, negative comments in your LORs, etc. As other posters have reported, it can be a faculty member who knows someone at the programs you applied to who has said "something" negative about you.

2) those who are most likely to succeed (once number 1 above is taken care of) are those without geographic limitations. Of course, this is not an option for many - but if you limit yourself to a few states or cities, then you are seriously narrowing the number of programs to choose from

3) while seemingly contrary to the above, the gunshot approach, where you apply to each and every program available is also not likely to succeed. Why would I want to choose an applicant who applied via ERAS for a surgery position, and all their letters, etc. say they want to do surgery, but they're applying for my Psych program? Lack of focus can be a problem - this tends to be more of an issue for FMGs who want any spot in the US, rather than a specific field.

Because of the volume of FAXes, emails and applications programs with unfilled spots get, I would not expect a phone call unless they are interested in talking to you more. That is, no news is generally not good news in this case.

If you are going to be contacted, most will use the phone as its the most expeditious manner to get a hold of you. If not done already, you can ask your Dean or some other faculty member fond of you to make a few phone calls on your behalf. It appals me to hear of programs which are not helpful in the scramble...it reflects poorly on them if their students don't match. Doesn't make sense to me.😕

If you live near any programs, don't be afraid to get in the car and drive there...show up looking sparkly in a suit. It doesn't mean you'll even get an interview or an offer, but it does show initiative and it helps to separate you from the pack. Off-chance but no doubt worth it if it works.

Be aware that some positions open up again in a few weeks and closer to July 1, when people change their minds, break contracts, etc. So if nothing pans out over the next couple of days, it doens't hurt to check back with some programs...and ask your faculty to help you keep your ear to the traintracks for positions opening up.

 

[MDF1]

thanks for your reply. I greatly appreciate the advice. I am a US Citizen from a Carrib. Med School. I have had access to the content of all my letters, and my deans letter, there should be no red flags that I can think of, other than the carib school of course. Maybe its like they said in the Departed: "some people dont trust a man w/ an impecable record...I have an impeccable record" I have what i consider to be an outstanding application, as confirmed by many of my interveiwers for anesthesiology. My letters were mentioned and commended by some programs. Im just baffled and the wind is truly gone from my sails here, working this hard for 4 years and excelling (IMHO). The reason I am applying to all of the different preliminary programs is because they are all acceptable for a Clinical Base year for anesthesiology. I just have this feeling that I have missed something major here. I had myself and my father searching and calling programs. I dont know what else I could have possibly done. Thanks again for your post.

MDF1

 

[Winged Scapula]

Its a shame when you've worked so hard. There are plenty of people from Caribbean schools in Anesthesiology - have you heard any rumors that there are more applicants this year?

I am aware that some Anesth programs take people mid-cycle (ie, January start), so keep your eye out for those as well.

 

[Doowai]

I was told in an email from someone intimately associated with the match that there is roughly twice as many applicants this year as last year

 

[Winged Scapula]

I was told in an email from someone intimately associated with the match that there is roughly twice as many applicants this year as last year

TWICE as many? Well, that might explain something.

 

[MDF1]

i matched anesth...albeit at my 10th choice...just having problems w/ prelim which i would have thought to be much easier.

 

[mig26x]

maybe you can contact your anesthesia program and ask them if they can help you.

 

[awdc]

yep... i would contact your anesthesia program... but how did you find out which program before thursday?

 

[PathOne]

yep... i would contact your anesthesia program... but how did you find out which program before thursday?

Apparently, if you call NRMP they can tell you which city you matched in. Especially relevant if you didn't match prelim yr, as it's obviously best if you can scramble into something in the same general area.

 

[MDF1]

yup....doing that right now. Thanks guys.

 

[chafemeister]

"TWICE as many? Well, that might explain something."

You'd think the # of applicants would be predictable year to year- so strange. But it was a massacre at my school with greater than twice the # of scramblers from last year. It makes me wonder... Any thoughts? Have other AMGs noticed this at their schools?

 

[Cuthbert]

I was told in an email from someone intimately associated with the match that there is roughly twice as many applicants this year as last year

So would that mean those additional applicants are DO or FMGs mainly?

 

[deleted113029]

"TWICE as many? Well, that might explain something."

You'd think the # of applicants would be predictable year to year- so strange. But it was a massacre at my school with greater than twice the # of scramblers from last year. It makes me wonder... Any thoughts? Have other AMGs noticed this at their schools?

No. in response to the purported # of applicants this year, how the hell could there be 100% more applicants this year than last (as Cuthbert stated it has to be mostly DOs/FMG/IMG and a minority of PGY(X) residents). if there were more DO/FMG/IMG this year, why would it have a significant impact on AMGs. US seniors, in general, are still the main crop that residencies choose from.

but again, whoever said there was a 100% increase in applicants is full of it. I won't believe it until NRMP match results are available next week.

 

[VanDude]

I don't know about the 100% increase, but I do know that there has been a significant influx of IMGs from UK and Australia (not UK/Aussie grads though, more like IMGs from India, ...) who are coming to the States this year and, even more so, next year.

The reason apparently is that the UK and Australian governments changed their visa policies overnight some time in early 2006, thereby effectively kicking many of these IMGs out of the residency system. That is why the first wave hit the NRMP match this year (those who already had some of the USMLE steps done). It is expected that the second wave will be worse as more people have now had the time to take the steps and what not.

 

[Dr. Will]

"TWICE as many? Well, that might explain something."

You'd think the # of applicants would be predictable year to year- so strange. But it was a massacre at my school with greater than twice the # of scramblers from last year. It makes me wonder... Any thoughts? Have other AMGs noticed this at their schools?

Go check out the EM forums. Many of us are noticing the same thing at our schools. There is an increase in the number of students that had to scramble from previous years. For us it is just about twice as many.

 

[Dr. Will]

.

 

[MDF1]

One more question...Just got a call back from a well known surgery program for a prelim spot stating 'youre in good position' for the spot, but when i mentioned my advanced anesthesiology match, she seemed to lose interest ..."............oooh" she said. Is this some information i should NOT be telling them??? I have to tell them that right?? I dont know what the difference is. Seems few surg programs take heavily from their prelims anyways. Anyone think i shouldnt have told them?? Still beside myself about not having a prelim.

In response to the previous discussion, anesthesiology was said to be the most competetive year ever in terms of number of applicants and some individual programs claimed to have received double the number of applications, not sure about nationwide.

 

[Adam_K]

I don't know about the 100% increase, but I do know that there has been a significant influx of IMGs from UK and Australia (not UK/Aussie grads though, more like IMGs from India, ...) who are coming to the States this year and, even more so, next year.

The reason apparently is that the UK and Australian governments changed their visa policies overnight some time in early 2006, thereby effectively kicking many of these IMGs out of the residency system. That is why the first wave hit the NRMP match this year (those who already had some of the USMLE steps done). It is expected that the second wave will be worse as more people have now had the time to take the steps and what not.

Purely anecdotal, but on my interview trail, all of the programs I interviewed at said that they had received a record number of applications. Also, I met a lot of "displaced" Indians and Pakistanis from the UK with significant experience in the specialty who were applying because they were kicked out of their postgraduate training.

What would really give it away are the ERAS statistics, but as those are behind a firewall...

 

[kam730]

oops

 

[Cuthbert]

I don't know about the 100% increase, but I do know that there has been a significant influx of IMGs from UK and Australia (not UK/Aussie grads though, more like IMGs from India, ...) who are coming to the States this year and, even more so, next year.
.

Yeah, 100% seem like quite a lot to me still. I'll believe it when and if I see the actual numbers.

 

[trkd]

I don't know about the 100% increase, but I do know that there has been a significant influx of IMGs from UK and Australia (not UK/Aussie grads though, more like IMGs from India, ...) who are coming to the States this year and, even more so, next year.

The reason apparently is that the UK and Australian governments changed their visa policies overnight some time in early 2006, thereby effectively kicking many of these IMGs out of the residency system. That is why the first wave hit the NRMP match this year (those who already had some of the USMLE steps done). It is expected that the second wave will be worse as more people have now had the time to take the steps and what not.

Don't think so mate. At least not from AUS. In fact, visa policy was just changed over the past year to allow non-aussies to stay past med school and apply for permanent residency. It used to be much harder based on the old policy which detracted points for doctors when determining eligibility to obtain residency. However, they realized now that they have a huge doctor shortage, particularly rurally, and now you can stay... easily. As for increased applicants, I just matched into EM from U. of Sydney (one of the four 4-yr graduate medical programs that are likely to have americans based on the 4-yr format). In my class off 250, the vast majority are aussie but of the north americans I only know of myself, a canadian that matched into Toronto rads today, and a friend who is dual US/Aus resident that matched into IM. Everyone else stayed in AUS.... easily. Sorry to burst bubbles but AUS is unlikely to be at blame here.

 

[Bertelman]

In response to the previous discussion, anesthesiology was said to be the most competetive year ever in terms of number of applicants and some individual programs claimed to have received double the number of applications, not sure about nationwide.

We've been discussing this over in the Anesthesia boards. I think we agree that programs are receiving many more apps, but that doesn't mean many more people are interested in Anesthesia. The consensus is that the perceived competitiveness has caused even the great candidates to shoot out 40 apps and vie for 15 interviews. People with a sure shot at matching, e.g. U.S. allopaths with >220, are still wigging out.

Thus, when looking at an individual program, it looks like many more are applying, but the apps are more dilute. This has been kind of reflected in the greater number of unfilled spots this year v. last, seemingly contradictory to the opinion that it is more competitive. Stellar candidates ranked 15 programs. That will lead to disappointment at programs vying for those people.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Some data tables were released to programs today along with their matches. Not sure if this information is embargoed until tomorrow, but suffice to say that there was an increase in the number of applicants (about 1200, which about 5% of the total 25000+ in the match). There were about 150 more US allopaths, 300 US IMG's, and 800 non-US IMG's this year.

Slots increased by exactly 600 this year (combining all programs and PGY levels).

Unmatch rates were about the same as previous years.

US Allopaths 6%
US Osteopaths 30%
US IMG's 50%
non-US IMG's 50-55%

Over the last three years, the number of unmatched US allopaths has increased by about 80 (out of 15000), not a huge change.

 

[Faebinder]

Seriously, I dont know when will this stop... the huge influx of non-citizen/non-resident has got to be limited... I mean residency is supposed to train individuals out of medical school... not someone who has been practicing for 40 years somewhere else and decided to come here for whatever reason. I am not saying cut those people out altogether.. but a cap should somehow be placed. In all other jobs, a job is supposed to be advertised for a long time and not picked by a qualified US citizen/resident applicant before it can be allowed to be given to a non resident/citizen.

Programs are definitely using this for their advantage. Crappy programs will show off their "99"s as if they are the ones who really did the work... when infact the person is pre-trained.

I'd like to see ECFMG get held accountable for some of this insane influx. Should medicine be an equal oppertunity between citizens/residents vs foreigners?

 

[hcxc06]

Unmatch rates were about the same as previous years.

US Allopaths 6%
US Osteopaths 30%
US IMG's 50%
non-US IMG's 50-55%


Just wondering but are match rates really this bad for DOs or does this not take into account the DOs who are pulled from the allo match because they matched into an osteopathic program...ie a DO would be counted as unmatched in the allo match when in reality he matched in the DO match instead? Thanks to anyone who can clarify this and best of luck to everyone in their scrambling

 

[Bevo]

where did you get those statistics?

 

[trkd]

Seriously, I dont know when will this stop... the huge influx of non-citizen/non-resident has got to be limited... I mean residency is supposed to train individuals out of medical school... not someone who has been practicing for 40 years somewhere else and decided to come here for whatever reason. I am not saying cut those people out altogether.. but a cap should somehow be placed. In all other jobs, a job is supposed to be advertised for a long time and not picked by a qualified US citizen/resident applicant before it can be allowed to be given to a non resident/citizen.

Programs are definitely using this for their advantage. Crappy programs will show off their "99"s as if they are the ones who really did the work... when infact the person is pre-trained.

I'd like to see ECFMG get held accountable for some of this insane influx. Should medicine be an equal oppertunity between citizens/residents vs foreigners?

There are far too many threads on this so I am not terribly interested in a huge debate here but just to say that it is very un-American to try to eliminate competition just based on the fact that it makes it too hard for the US grad (tear). Don't get me wrong, I am not unsympathetic to anyone who did not match. I actually feel really awful for anyone who had to scramble. What a let down on the ego. However, competition is what makes this country ahead of the game in many industries. Eliminating the competition is not the best way make better students here. You see that 50% of IMGs matched but that is based on a much lower number of IMGs that apply compared to US grads. I don't think this is the reason for all the trouble.

 

[deleted113029]

Seriously, I dont know when will this stop... the huge influx of non-citizen/non-resident has got to be limited... I mean residency is supposed to train individuals out of medical school... not someone who has been practicing for 40 years somewhere else and decided to come here for whatever reason. I am not saying cut those people out altogether.. but a cap should somehow be placed. In all other jobs, a job is supposed to be advertised for a long time and not picked by a qualified US citizen/resident applicant before it can be allowed to be given to a non resident/citizen.
Programs are definitely using this for their advantage. Crappy programs will show off their "99"s as if they are the ones who really did the work... when infact the person is pre-trained.

I'd like to see ECFMG get held accountable for some of this insane influx. Should medicine be an equal oppertunity between citizens/residents vs foreigners?

you must be at the top of your class. with ignorance like that, you are truly amazing.

seriously, what jobs are you talking about. when i was in corporate america, positions were filled by the best applicant available at the time...regardless of citizenship.

 

[Tired]

There are far too many threads on this so I am not terribly interested in a huge debate here but just to say that it is very un-American to try to eliminate competition just based on the fact that it makes it too hard for the US grad (tear). Don't get me wrong, I am not unsympathetic to anyone who did not match. I actually feel really awful for anyone who had to scramble. What a let down on the ego. However, competition is what makes this country ahead of the game in many industries. Eliminating the competition is not the best way make better students here. You see that 50% of IMGs matched but that is based on a much lower number of IMGs that apply compared to US grads. I don't think this is the reason for all the trouble.

Nice dig at all the folks who had to scramble. Way to kick 'em when they're down.

Residency training is largely funded by Medicare, ie - the tax dollars of American citizens. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would think that it is "fair" to use our own tax dollars to fund the education of foreign citizens. Or is it now our job to provide physicians to foreign countries? Is this a new form of foreign aid I wasn't aware of?

Of course FMGs are not responsible for the 6% of US Allo students who don't match. But it is silly to bring up issues of "competition" when the whole reason our government funds residency training is to train (duh) doctors for America. The day I see the Japanese, Thai, and Indian governments giving up the 120K a year for every FMG we train, is the day I will heartily agree that citizens of all countries should be on even playing field.

 

[Faebinder]

you must be at the top of your class. with ignorance like that, you are truly amazing.

seriously, what jobs are you talking about. when i was in corporate america, positions were filled by the best applicant available at the time...regardless of citizenship.

My previous career was like that.... and corporate american has a limit of 150k H1 visa per year for the entire US, where as ECFMG gives you the capability to compete and lets you worry about the visa status later, including the J-1 exchange visa which lets you take the residency without the need for H1 visa... Noncitizen/resident don't take a job in corporate america with a J-1 visa. J-1 visa is an EXCHANGE VISITOR VISA given to someone coming to train here with the intention that they are returning.

If this is a free market then by all means.. go ahead and make american grads and foreign grads equal.... yup didn't think so... okay stop calling it "the best" applicants. That 40 year practicing radiologist from <insert your favorite country> is a "better" applicant than a brand new medical student from <insert your average joe university in the US>. Favoritism is expected and required and calling me names for my opinion doesn't change the matter.

 

[Adam_K]

Some data tables were released to programs today along with their matches. Not sure if this information is embargoed until tomorrow, but suffice to say that there was an increase in the number of applicants (about 1200, which about 5% of the total 25000+ in the match). There were about 150 more US allopaths, 300 US IMG's, and 800 non-US IMG's this year.

Slots increased by exactly 600 this year (combining all programs and PGY levels).

Unmatch rates were about the same as previous years.

US Allopaths 6%
US Osteopaths 30%
US IMG's 50%
non-US IMG's 50-55%

Over the last three years, the number of unmatched US allopaths has increased by about 80 (out of 15000), not a huge change.

Thanks for posting these. You wouldn't be able to let us know about the total number of ERAS applications/applicants year on year, would you? If not, please forget that I asked.

 

[Adam_K]

If this is a free market then by all means.. go ahead and make american grads and foreign grads equal.... yup didn't think so... okay stop calling it "the best" applicants. That 40 year practicing radiologist from <insert your favorite country> is a "better" applicant than a brand new medical student from <insert your average joe university in the US>. Favoritism is expected and required and calling me names for my opinion doesn't change the matter.

I have news for you. Very few IMGs match in the most competitive specialties. PDs prefer US grads over IMGs in almost any case. You have to be someone really special to beat out the local competition even in so-called non-competitive fields.

Besides, very few PDs want a sixty four year old radiologist as a first year resident.

 

[trkd]

I have news for you. Very few IMGs match in the most competitive specialties. PDs prefer US grads over IMGs in almost any case. You have to be someone really special to beat out the local competition even in so-called non-competitive fields.

Besides, very few PDs want a sixty four year old radiologist as a first year resident.

Exactly! You don't see plastics spots being taken from US grads. These IMGs are mostly in IM and FP where US grads don't want to fill the spots.

If this is a free market then by all means.. go ahead and make american grads and foreign grads equal.... yup didn't think so... okay stop calling it "the best" applicants.

They will never be equal. PDs will always take US grads that are otherwise equal. No, I am not talking about the 40 yr-old radiologist. I am talking about the US grad with a 218 on Step 1 and so-so letters vs. the US citizen grad from [enter a foreign school with a pretty good reputation] with a 260 on step 1 AND 2 and great letters from US rotations. The IMG in this case is likely better NOT equal. Most competitive spots that go to IMGs are likely US citizens and deserving of the US tax money as much as anyone else.

Nice dig at all the folks who had to scramble. Way to kick 'em when they're down.

That's pretty lame. You have no idea what you are talking about. I had some friends who scrambled. I feel awful for them because they are good candidates but due to various reasons (not ranking enough spots, couples match), they didn't get it. Totally sh1tty. So don't even try to go there.

Residency training is largely funded by Medicare, ie - the tax dollars of American citizens. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would think that it is "fair" to use our own tax dollars to fund the education of foreign citizens. Or is it now our job to provide physicians to foreign countries? Is this a new form of foreign aid I wasn't aware of?

Like I said, most competitive spots go to US-IMGs. The others are spots that US grads don't want. Simple as that.

 

[Samoa]

tkrd, I'd like to see you back your statements up with statistics. I don't think you can, because the fact is that it is NOT US-IMGs who are obtaining spots in competitive specialties, and it IS the fully trained IMGs from other countries who admit privately that intend to stay here once they finish, despite their J1 visas, who compete successfully against US-trained applicants in the US match.

In a high-liability field, who do you want taking care of your patients, the uber-green new grad from a US school, or the fully-trained surgeon from a top-notch foreign school? If there's no rule from Medicare stopping it, I can tell you who I'd choose if I were in their shoes. And even if there were, I might pay the difference out of my own pocket if the savings on lawyer fees were great enough. I don't think it's right, but I can certainly understand why it happens.

I know that's going to make people mad, however that's what I've seen, personally. I'll be happy to retract my statement if anyone can provide me statistics to the contrary.

 

[trkd]

tkrd, I'd like to see you back your statements up with statistics. I don't think you can, because the fact is that it is NOT US-IMGs who are obtaining spots in competitive specialties, and it IS the fully trained IMGs from other countries who admit privately that intend to stay here once they finish, despite their J1 visas, who compete successfully against US-trained applicants in the US match.

In a high-liability field, who do you want taking care of your patients, the uber-green new grad from a US school, or the fully-trained surgeon from a top-notch foreign school? If there's no rule from Medicare stopping it, I can tell you who I'd choose if I were in their shoes. And even if there were, I might pay the difference out of my own pocket if the savings on lawyer fees were great enough. I don't think it's right, but I can certainly understand why it happens.

I know that's going to make people mad, however that's what I've seen, personally. I'll be happy to retract my statement if anyone can provide me statistics to the contrary.

I honestly don't know where such data would exist comparing USIMGs to FMGs (if those are the right acronyms). I am sure it does but NRMP does not provide it to my knowledge. Purely anecdotal. That said, I doubt anyone would argue the fact that IMGs (of any sort) are more likely to take a spot in a competitive specialty over one that is not. There is definitely data against that. Look at the numbers of IMGs that fill spots in derm, plastics, ENT, etc (NRMP data tables). Barely any. Seriously, how is this a huge threat???

 

[Mayhem]

Residency training is largely funded by Medicare, ie - the tax dollars of American citizens. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would think that it is "fair" to use our own tax dollars to fund the education of foreign citizens.

Because the healthcare system is built on the backs of residents. Residency isn't like med school where you sit in a classroom all year. The doctors train while performing services and taking care of patients and that is what medicare pays for. So, it doesn't matter if you're an AMG or IMG, the government gets their money's worth because sick people are taken care of. That is why they've never bothered to regulate the system too much. A body is a body and it's better to have somebody than nobody at all.

I don't see how this is unfair, I thought people would be more pissed at the foreigners that came and left AFTER all the money spent training them. That would be a loss of investment.

Edit: We kind of hijacked the thread but I wanted to know if the dude/dudette (?) got a prelim spot.

 

[MDF1]

nope...waiting on calls from a couple places but hopes are not high at this point

 

[Faebinder]

Because the healthcare system is built on the backs of residents. Residency isn't like med school where you sit in a classroom all year. The doctors train while performing services and taking care of patients and that is what medicare pays for. So, it doesn't matter if you're an AMG or IMG, the government gets their money's worth because sick people are taken care of. That is why they've never bothered to regulate the system too much. A body is a body and it's better to have somebody than nobody at all.

I don't see how this is unfair, I thought people would be more pissed at the foreigners that came and left AFTER all the money spent training them. That would be a loss of investment.

Edit: We kind of hijacked the thread but I wanted to know if the dude/dudette (?) got a prelim spot.

It's never the case of having "nobody" for a PGY 1 spot... maybe for a PGY2+ spot where someone dropped out or died or something unpredictable... but PGY1 has many people inline... nrmp statisitics show ratio of 5 applicants to 1 position in the scramble (one of each applicant is a US graduate MD). So there is no excuse that there is "nobody" otherwise we wouldnt see programs like Seton Hall NJ, Methodist NY and Atlantic City NJ where they leave spots open for the scramble for them to pick and choose.

 

[MDF1]

finally...a verbal match...claim they had 1400 ERAS submissions for prelim medicine...id say thats a lil higher than 5:1.

 

[LukeWhite]

Residency training is largely funded by Medicare, ie - the tax dollars of American citizens. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would think that it is "fair" to use our own tax dollars to fund the education of foreign citizens. Or is it now our job to provide physicians to foreign countries? Is this a new form of foreign aid I wasn't aware of?

A few points (apologies if they've already been made, which is quite possible as they're rather obvious):

1. The vast majority of FMGs are not going to US residencies, learning their trade, and heading back home. Would that it were so, because we are draining developing nations of their best physicians. FMGs come to America because American medicine is a good deal for doctors.

2. FMGs generally go into noncompetitive specialties (as others have pointed out). The value to the the American public of having experienced docs in primary care positions is significant. Whether this seems fair or not is sort of irrelevant...medicine, like most universal services, is organized around maximum benefit. Which is mainly why the match has stuck around in the first place.

 

[luckyDO]

What happened to the spots this year? I'm a US grad who can't find a IM spot this year; so it is likely that the IMGs are taking US med grad spots this year.

Exactly! You don't see plastics spots being taken from US grads. These IMGs are mostly in IM and FP where US grads don't want to fill the spots.

They will never be equal. PDs will always take US grads that are otherwise equal. No, I am not talking about the 40 yr-old radiologist. I am talking about the US grad with a 218 on Step 1 and so-so letters vs. the US citizen grad from [enter a foreign school with a pretty good reputation] with a 260 on step 1 AND 2 and great letters from US rotations. The IMG in this case is likely better NOT equal. Most competitive spots that go to IMGs are likely US citizens and deserving of the US tax money as much as anyone else.


That's pretty lame. You have no idea what you are talking about. I had some friends who scrambled. I feel awful for them because they are good candidates but due to various reasons (not ranking enough spots, couples match), they didn't get it. Totally sh1tty. So don't even try to go there.

Like I said, most competitive spots go to US-IMGs. The others are spots that US grads don't want. Simple as that.

 

[Doowai]

I mean residency is supposed to train individuals out of medical school... not someone who has been practicing for 40 years somewhere else and decided to come here for whatever reason. I am not saying cut those people out altogether..

It would be nice if FMG doctors who have practiced for many years could do something like a simple one year 5th pathway and if they perform well get licensed, and if not they can do some sort of remedial training to get them current in the way USA medicine is practiced. Some countries a phonocardiograph is the standard of care instead of a echo. But many foreign MD's , have alot of heavy experience. Some of the Indian med students have had a lot of experience - placing chest tubes in infants since their second year etc (no malpractice attorneys there)

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

What happened to the spots this year? I'm a US grad who can't find a IM spot this year; so it is likely that the IMGs are taking US med grad spots this year.

yeah but you are a DO.

 

[DO_2007]

yeah but you are a DO.

I do not think because he is DO, he could not find a spot. He is a US grad. I consider anyone who is not required to be certified by the ECFMG, to be a US grad.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The DO unmatch rate is about 30% for the last 5 years. Not all DO's get spots in the allopathic match. Having reviewed a large number of DO applications, I can tell you that DO Dean's letters are often difficult to interpret, training is variable between schools, and letters of refefrence are hard to evaluate. I tend to weight COMLEX/USMLE scores heavily (since these are at least standardized and I can interpret them). Hence, getting a spot as a DO depends heavily on your performance during medical school.

 

[DO_2007]

The DO unmatch rate is about 30% for the last 5 years. Not all DO's get spots in the allopathic match. Having reviewed a large number of DO applications, I can tell you that DO Dean's letters are often difficult to interpret, training is variable between schools, and letters of refefrence are hard to evaluate. I tend to weight COMLEX/USMLE scores heavily (since these are at least standardized and I can interpret them). Hence, getting a spot as a DO depends heavily on your performance during medical school.

are those 30% for IM only or the allopathic match in general? plus how many applicants making that 30%. We are talking about fixed number of spots here, you can not compare 15,000 allopathic applicants to 3000 osteopathic applicants to 200,000 FMG/IMG's. I agree with you about the COMLEX and Dean's letters, but my point was not only beacause he is a DO, he could not get IM spot. for the last 6 years from my school only, no one end up unmatched in IM.

 

[trkd]

are those 30% for IM only or the allopathic match in general? plus how many applicants making that 30%. We are talking about fixed number of spots here, you can not compare 15,000 allopathic applicants to 3000 osteopathic applicants to 200,000 FMG/IMG's. I agree with you about the COMLEX and Dean's letters, but my point was not only beacause he is a DO, he could not get IM spot. for the last 6 years from my school only, no one end up unmatched in IM.

200,000 FMG/IMG's???? I presume you meant 20K but still not quite right. This was the line up for active applications in 2006:

US grad- 15,008
Canadians- 69
US Physicians- 1,201
5th pathway- 51
Osteopath grads- 1,509
US national IMGs- 2,435
Foreign national IMGs- 6,442

What happened to the spots this year? I'm a US grad who can't find a IM spot this year; so it is likely that the IMGs are taking US med grad spots this year.

LuckyDO, I am sorry you didn't get a spot in the match. I hope the scramble worked out well for you. I don't know why you didn't get a spot and I won't speculate here based off of nothing. I just doubt that things have changed much this year over any other with regards to IMGs and therefore I find it unlikely that the blame here be on IMGs. Good luck.

 

[Winged Scapula]

... Having reviewed a large number of DO applications, I can tell you that DO Dean's letters are often difficult to interpret, training is variable between schools, and letters of refefrence are hard to evaluate.

Just wondering...what specifically about the LORs makes them more difficult to interpret than Allopathic letters?😕