doubts about medical school

[aprile]

So I've read dozens of threads about this subject, but I thought I would go ahead and get some more personal advice.

Basically, I have two worries...

1. I'm going to med school for the wrong reason. For example, a lot of my peers on the pre-med track have wanted this their whole lives/love helping people. I don't fit into either category: I've always been interested in science, but I only considered med school at the start of college. And although I like interacting and helping people, it isn't my main reason for wanting to be a doctor (more specifically a surgeon). My main reason is that I'm just purely interested in the what the professions entails--the science, techniques and responsibilities.

I've been a ballet dancer my whole life, and there is something about the discipline/precision involved in dance that translates to doctors too. It is this aspect that is appealing. I sincerely want to spend the rest of my life perfecting certain surgeries and practicing repeatedly so I can help people to the best of my abilities. That's what dance was: doing the same exercises everyday so that the next time you preformed a move, it was just a little bit better. I feel like the profession fits my personality.

2. I'm not particularly smart. It takes time for me to build confidence in my understanding of concepts. I need to review over and over and do as many problems as I can before I feel ready. While this has been a fine so far, I've heard how hard med school is/basically everything related to becoming a doctor and the last thing I want is to decide on this route and realize years later that I'm simply not academically capable of being a doctor.

So basically, what are your thoughts? Maybe I'm completely wrong about the profession and doesn't actually fit my personality? Although I've taken pre-reqs, I'm not 'locked' into anything. And increasingly, I'm shying away from this dream because I'm not sure my reasons are strong/good enough.

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[Grace184]

Okay first- how old or what year in college are you in?

And a follow up to that you are NEVER locked into anything unless you force yourself to be!
It may seem that watch bc you watch your friends going down a path, but you are NOT your friends....your aprile. Be who aprile wants, whatever that may be.

 

[DownUnderBlunder]

1. Your reasons are no less valid than anyone else's. Whatever your motivations, you have made the determination that you want this career and it is right for you. You have convinced Adcoms that you are a good fit, and to no one else do you owe a "legitimate" explanation or reason.

FWIW, there are (a few) people in the other boat: those who could have saved more lives and made bigger improvements to human life, yet have changed their profession to medicine. Would you condemn them for chasing their passions?

2. Medicine isn't for the smart. The smart are the ones who don't need such a secure field where keeping up to date requires little more than attending a conference every six months. It takes infinitely more intelligence and skill to succeed in magnetohydrodynamics or artificial intelligence than medicine. I am not saying this to belittle the field, but to point out that if you made it this far, you can succeed in medicine for a lifetime.

The unpaved path is usually harder than the well-walked one, but neither compare to the unconsidered direction. Keep that in mind, and don't doubt yourself.

 

[aprile]

Okay first- how old or what year in college are you in?

And a follow up to that you are NEVER locked into anything unless you force yourself to be!
It may seem that watch bc you watch your friends going down a path, but you are NOT your friends....your aprile. Be who aprile wants, whatever that may be.

I'm starting my junior year this fall (edit to above/didn't clarify, I haven't fully completed my pre-reqs) and I attend Dartmouth. Actually, Dartmouth doesn't even have an official pre-med track, but rather a list of courses that are recommended. I guess if I knew I wanted to do pre-med before applying to college, I might have chosen something more directed... like a program at Northeastern (my friend is there and loves it) but again, I didn't know.

 

[aprile]

1. Your reasons are no less valid than anyone else's. Whatever your motivations, you have made the determination that you want this career and it is right for you. You have convinced Adcoms that you are a good fit, and to no one else do you owe a "legitimate" explanation or reason.

FWIW, there are (a few) people in the other boat: those who could have saved more lives and made bigger improvements to human life, yet have changed their profession to medicine. Would you condemn them for chasing their passions?

2. Medicine isn't for the smart. The smart are the ones who don't need such a secure field where keeping up to date requires little more than attending a conference every six months. It takes infinitely more intelligence and skill to succeed in magnetohydrodynamics or artificial intelligence than medicine. I am not saying this to belittle the field, but to point out that if you made it this far, you can succeed in medicine for a lifetime.

The unpaved path is usually harder than the well-walked one, but neither compare to the unconsidered direction. Keep that in mind, and don't doubt yourself.

technically I haven't convinced the adcoms of anything since I'm not into med school (ironically part of my worries for #2 is not getting into med school)

but thanks for your words, you've left me good things to think about!

 

[Grace184]

Can you think of anything in the medical field that does entice you? Like nursing, PA, Psychologist, etc?
If you can't see yourself living the life (4 yrs med school, 4 yrs etc surgery residency) it's good to evaluate it now.

Not to get all hokey, but if you saw yourself if 5, maybe 10 yrs and you were working and happy, could you visualize that? If so, what would you be doing?

 

[Axes]

I'm not particularly smart. It takes time for me to build confidence in my understanding of concepts. I need to review over and over and do as many problems as I can before I feel ready. While this has been a fine so far, I've heard how hard med school is/basically everything related to becoming a doctor and the last thing I want is to decide on this route and realize years later that I'm simply not academically capable of being a doctor.

This could just be your aforementioned perfectionist tendency manifesting itself as self doubt until the point of mastery. Are your test scores good? Consistent solid test scores are pretty necessary for a career in medicine.

 

[aprile]

This could just be your aforementioned perfectionist tendency manifesting itself as self doubt until the point of mastery. Are your test scores good? Consistent solid test scores are pretty necessary for a career in medicine.

I definitely agree with your analysis, dance hasn't only left me with good practices. I would say I'm a fairly okay test taker. Obviously, I'm best when I have time to prepare and build confidence.

I guess my worry is that I'm not a great test taker... and like you said, solid test scores are pretty necessary.

 

[Grace184]

I definitely agree with your analysis, dance hasn't only left me with good practices. I would say I'm a fairly okay test taker. Obviously, I'm best when I have time to prepare and build confidence.

I guess my worry is that I'm not a great test taker... and like you said, solid test scores are pretty necessary.

What's fairly ok? I mean, you are at Darthmouth!

 

[Axes]

I definitely agree with your analysis, dance hasn't only left me with good practices. I would say I'm a fairly okay test taker. Obviously, I'm best when I have time to prepare and build confidence.

I guess my worry is that I'm not a great test taker... and like you said, solid test scores are pretty necessary.

What's fairly ok? I mean, you are at Darthmouth!

Didn't see that. I think you just have a confidence problem? If you hit Dartmouth's median gpa/test scores then you're easily smart & hard working enough.

 

[aprile]

Didn't see that. I think you just have a confidence problem? If you hit Dartmouth's median gpa/test scores then you're easily smart & hard working enough.

But the problem is that I was lucky enough to have loving parents that allowed me to take the tests more than once so I would be comfortable... also getting into college is easier than getting into med school/doing well to in hs to get into college is easier than doing well to get into med school...I guess I'm just worried I'm not quick enough to compete and I haven't really heard that many success stories from people with average gpas/test scores, but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

But I also see what you guys mean about confidence, so I guess my worries are things I can fix.

 

[DokterMom]

You sound like medical material to me! --

• You're analytical and 'neurotic' enough (not clinically neurotic, just pre-med-style )
• If you're doing well at Dartmouth, you're smart enough, particularly with the hard-work traits you have as a dancer
  
• Frankly, your reasons sound much more honest than most others, and are no less valid.
  
• If you do well enough GPA-wise and on the MCAT to get interviewed, have confidence that the AdComs know what they're doing
• I've heard it said that a 'trained monkey' can do surgery. I'm not suggesting that this is actually true, just that your dance training and passion for perfecting each move would seem very applicable.

The wrong reasons for choosing medicine generally boil down to parental pressure, prestige and money

 

[Dr. Death]

If you want to know if medicine is right for you I suggest shadowing 5-7 different specialties. Even if it is only for a few days. If you find that you wouldn't be happy doing any of them then medicine isn't right for you. If you think you would be happy doing one or two of them, then explore further.

 

[Goro]

OP, have you volunteered with patients? Do you like being around sick people? Have you shadowed? Do you know what a doctor's day is like???

@mimelim
@SouthernSurgeon
@Law2Doc
@gyngyn

Comments???

So I've read dozens of threads about this subject, but I thought I would go ahead and get some more personal advice.

Basically, I have two worries...

1. I'm going to med school for the wrong reason. For example, a lot of my peers on the pre-med track have wanted this their whole lives/love helping people. I don't fit into either category: I've always been interested in science, but I only considered med school at the start of college. And although I like interacting and helping people, it isn't my main reason for wanting to be a doctor (more specifically a surgeon). My main reason is that I'm just purely interested in the what the professions entails--the science, techniques and responsibilities.

I've been a ballet dancer my whole life, and there is something about the discipline/precision involved in dance that translates to doctors too. It is this aspect that is appealing. I sincerely want to spend the rest of my life perfecting certain surgeries and practicing repeatedly so I can help people to the best of my abilities. That's what dance was: doing the same exercises everyday so that the next time you preformed a move, it was just a little bit better. I feel like the profession fits my personality.

2. I'm not particularly smart. It takes time for me to build confidence in my understanding of concepts. I need to review over and over and do as many problems as I can before I feel ready. While this has been a fine so far, I've heard how hard med school is/basically everything related to becoming a doctor and the last thing I want is to decide on this route and realize years later that I'm simply not academically capable of being a doctor.

So basically, what are your thoughts? Maybe I'm completely wrong about the profession and doesn't actually fit my personality? Although I've taken pre-reqs, I'm not 'locked' into anything. And increasingly, I'm shying away from this dream because I'm not sure my reasons are strong/good enough.

 

[mimelim]

So I've read dozens of threads about this subject, but I thought I would go ahead and get some more personal advice.

Basically, I have two worries...

1. I'm going to med school for the wrong reason. For example, a lot of my peers on the pre-med track have wanted this their whole lives/love helping people. I don't fit into either category: I've always been interested in science, but I only considered med school at the start of college. And although I like interacting and helping people, it isn't my main reason for wanting to be a doctor (more specifically a surgeon). My main reason is that I'm just purely interested in the what the professions entails--the science, techniques and responsibilities.

I've been a ballet dancer my whole life, and there is something about the discipline/precision involved in dance that translates to doctors too. It is this aspect that is appealing. I sincerely want to spend the rest of my life perfecting certain surgeries and practicing repeatedly so I can help people to the best of my abilities. That's what dance was: doing the same exercises everyday so that the next time you preformed a move, it was just a little bit better. I feel like the profession fits my personality.

2. I'm not particularly smart. It takes time for me to build confidence in my understanding of concepts. I need to review over and over and do as many problems as I can before I feel ready. While this has been a fine so far, I've heard how hard med school is/basically everything related to becoming a doctor and the last thing I want is to decide on this route and realize years later that I'm simply not academically capable of being a doctor.

So basically, what are your thoughts? Maybe I'm completely wrong about the profession and doesn't actually fit my personality? Although I've taken pre-reqs, I'm not 'locked' into anything. And increasingly, I'm shying away from this dream because I'm not sure my reasons are strong/good enough.

I'll just go ahead and say it straight out. There is no such thing as the "wrong" reasons, just as there are no "right" reasons. The questions that you need to be asking yourself and we will be asking of you when reading your application are:

For you, replace, "Is this person" with "Am I"...

#1 "Is this person going to survive the training?"
#2 "Is this person going to want to practice medicine after surviving the training?"
#3 "Does this person have the capacity to be a good physician?"
#4 "Is this person going to do good for patients, our community and our school?"

If the answer is no to any of those, you should not apply to medical school. If the answer is no to any of those, we shouldn't admit you to our medical school.

#1 - Medical school/residency is a lot of learning, for 7-11 years. You need to be academically capable. You need to have reasonable study skills. You need to have some language and communication proficiency. We typically figure this out by looking at your GPA/MCAT and classes you have taken

#2 Medical school/residency is long. To go down this road means sacrificing a lot. Money: school is expensive and you will be underpaid through 3-7 years of residency compared to how much you will work. Time: You will work and study long hours. The prize at the end is being a physician. As @Goro asks, do you really know what that means? Do you know what it means to be a physician? Never mind a surgeon, but do you want to spend 30+ years seeing sick people, touching them, taking care of them. Do you want to see 30 patients in a morning because that is how most jobs are setup?

#3 A little bit like #1, but this is more about drive. Are you driven? Are you going to pay attention to detail, even when it doesn't make you money and ends up costing you time?

#4 Kinda self explanatory.


Convince yourself that you want to be a physician. Shadow physicians, spend time in a hospital. Spend time in the outpatient setting. Spend time with a PCP. If you can see yourself doing what they do for a career, then you are applying for the right reasons.


Edit: There is a wrong reason: parental pressure or pressure from anyone that isn't yourself. @DokterMom is absolutely correct on that one.

 

[Iridescent]

1. Your reasons are no less valid than anyone else's. Whatever your motivations, you have made the determination that you want this career and it is right for you. You have convinced Adcoms that you are a good fit, and to no one else do you owe a "legitimate" explanation or reason.

FWIW, there are (a few) people in the other boat: those who could have saved more lives and made bigger improvements to human life, yet have changed their profession to medicine. Would you condemn them for chasing their passions?

2. Medicine isn't for the smart. The smart are the ones who don't need such a secure field where keeping up to date requires little more than attending a conference every six months. It takes infinitely more intelligence and skill to succeed in magnetohydrodynamics or artificial intelligence than medicine. I am not saying this to belittle the field, but to point out that if you made it this far, you can succeed in medicine for a lifetime.

The unpaved path is usually harder than the well-walked one, but neither compare to the unconsidered direction. Keep that in mind, and don't doubt yourself.

I take issue with number two. The smart do what they want in life. If it's medicine, then they practice medicine. And medicine is more than learning something new in a conference every six months or so. Way more in fact.

 

[doc05]

don't do it. you don't have the right reasons.

you are at Dartmouth - of course you're smart enough.

my concern is that your reason is mainly the "idea of mastering the surgical techniques." That is a terrible reason. You clearly have no actual experience in this regard, or your post would read much differently. You need to be motivated by the patients and their care. I can tell you that the surgical techniques get old real fast. And once you've mastered the technique (whatever that may be) you will need something else to be your motivator.

 

[Doudline]

I take issue with number two. The smart do what they want in life. If it's medicine, then they practice medicine. And medicine is more than learning something new in a conference every six months or so. Way more in fact.

I read it as: you don't need to be particularly smart to succeed in medicine - it's almost solely about time invested (as opposed to say philosophy, maths, etc). It doesn't mean that there are no highly intelligent people in medicine, mind you, just that the ceiling is low.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

Give it your all and keep an open mind.

Many people grow into the job and learn to love it, cannot see themselves doing anything else. Others don't grow into it, and do something else.

 

[Iridescent]

I read it as: you don't need to be particularly smart to succeed in medicine - it's almost solely about time invested (as opposed to say philosophy, maths, etc). It doesn't mean that there are no highly intelligent people in medicine, mind you, just that the ceiling is low.

The ceiling is low in medicine for intelligence? In one of the most competitive fields that exists? I beg to differ.

It's pretty much the same for every field. You have interest --> apply that interest, work hard and succeed in the field. You don't need to be exceptional to do well in any field.

 

[RustBeltOnc]

The ceiling is low in medicine for intelligence? In one of the most competitive fields that exists? I beg to differ.

It's pretty much the same for every field. You have interest --> apply that interest, work hard and succeed in the field. You don't need to be exceptional to do well in any field.

Exceptional intelligence can actually put one at disadvantage. So much of medicine is routine, and doesn't require deep thought; the true genius can be bored to tears.

 

[Iridescent]

Exceptional intelligence can actually put one at disadvantage. So much of medicine is routine, and doesn't require deep thought; the true genius can be bored to tears.

When did I ever bring up genius? All I said was it does take intelligence to practice medicine. The ceiling isn't low of physicians and even though much may be routine, there is a lot of handle.

 

[Iridescent]

Why is this such a difficult concept? Physicians are smart. There wouldn't be a sdn with thousands of threads if it was otherwise.

And I use smart as in average or above average intelligence. I don't use it as top 1% smart, however you want that to mean.

 

[partypantss]

Why is this such a difficult concept? Physicians are smart. There wouldn't be a sdn with thousands of threads if it was otherwise.

And I use smart as in average or above average intelligence. I don't use it as top 1% smart, however you want that to mean.

I agree, I think there are many people out there that just don't have what it takes to make it to medical school. Your average Joe doesn't get a 3.7+ GPA in college and score a 30+ on the MCAT. Plenty of pre-meds at the beginning of college work very hard and still fall short and these are people that generally did well in high school and often considered themselves "smart." I don't know how anyone can say that medicine isn't for intelligent people, that just sounds crazy to me. Many of my friends study just as much as I do if not more and still pull much worse grades in easier majors. If I were in their shoes, I would not be able to become a doctor. Md's certainly aren't all geniuses, but they are definitely largely smart people.

However, I am not AT ALL saying that OP cannot be successful in medicine, I was simply addressing the other post. If OP has good grades at dartmouth then I'm sure she is plenty smart, maybe just lacking self confidence.

To answer Op's question: I agree with what other people have said, you should definitely spend a decent amount of time shadowing various doctors. There is a reason medical schools want you to shadow: it works. Theirs no better way to find out if this career is right for you than by spending time watching people who are in it.

 

[olivarynucleus]

People who say MDs aren't smart people, are like the people who say anybody can run a 5 minute mile or bench 300 pounds if the just "try" and train hard. People like to downplay genetics gifts as hard work, because genetics aren't fair and hard work is.

 

[DownUnderBlunder]

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's ego. I don't know you and I didn't mean to imply any conclusions about you (excluding OP). So, for all I know, you're all the super smartest, bestest people in the world, and some of you call your BFF Bill Gates everyday to make fun of how childish Einstein's ideas were. I don't know either way, and sorry I implied I did know.

It wasn't my intention to mock physicians, but to motivate the OP to not doubt herself. @Doudline hit the nail on the head.

Look at her original post again: she is going to Dartmouth. Yeah, tens of thousands of people have attended Dartmouth, but - like docs - they generally are pretty sharp people. Then notice at how modest her writing is. There's no ego in it, yet she conveys ambition so well. Best of all, she isn't myopic about "saving people" and "medicine is my calling and I can't do anything else" but shares her other interests (albeit with reservations). I'm not an Adcom, but to me, she has easily exceeded the minimum criteria to be a forgettable doctor. I'm not saying she won't go on to do great things, but if she's worried about making the cut, you focus on the lowest rung.

EDIT: I realized we should maybe create a new thread if we want to continue this conversation? As it is derailing the topic at hand, which I think has a great deal of merit.

 

[Meeehai]

So I've read dozens of threads about this subject, but I thought I would go ahead and get some more personal advice.

Basically, I have two worries...

1. I'm going to med school for the wrong reason. For example, a lot of my peers on the pre-med track have wanted this their whole lives/love helping people. I don't fit into either category: I've always been interested in science, but I only considered med school at the start of college. And although I like interacting and helping people, it isn't my main reason for wanting to be a doctor (more specifically a surgeon). My main reason is that I'm just purely interested in the what the professions entails--the science, techniques and responsibilities.

I've been a ballet dancer my whole life, and there is something about the discipline/precision involved in dance that translates to doctors too. It is this aspect that is appealing. I sincerely want to spend the rest of my life perfecting certain surgeries and practicing repeatedly so I can help people to the best of my abilities. That's what dance was: doing the same exercises everyday so that the next time you preformed a move, it was just a little bit better. I feel like the profession fits my personality.

2. I'm not particularly smart. It takes time for me to build confidence in my understanding of concepts. I need to review over and over and do as many problems as I can before I feel ready. While this has been a fine so far, I've heard how hard med school is/basically everything related to becoming a doctor and the last thing I want is to decide on this route and realize years later that I'm simply not academically capable of being a doctor.

So basically, what are your thoughts? Maybe I'm completely wrong about the profession and doesn't actually fit my personality? Although I've taken pre-reqs, I'm not 'locked' into anything. And increasingly, I'm shying away from this dream because I'm not sure my reasons are strong/good enough.

To simplify the answer for you: you need to shadow physicians in various specialties as well as getting hands on clinical experience in order to get a taste of what doctors actually do. Don't limit yourself to just shadowing, find something where you can be exposed to sick people.

 

[aprile]

don't do it. you don't have the right reasons.

you are at Dartmouth - of course you're smart enough.

my concern is that your reason is mainly the "idea of mastering the surgical techniques." That is a terrible reason. You clearly have no actual experience in this regard, or your post would read much differently. You need to be motivated by the patients and their care. I can tell you that the surgical techniques get old real fast. And once you've mastered the technique (whatever that may be) you will need something else to be your motivator.

okay thank you for this! But you're right, I have no actual experience working on someone. This is why I asked the question, because I had the feeling that surgical techniques get old fast... I guess I was hoping that some doctor out there had the same initial reasoning as me and could say, 'that was what pushed me towards it, but not I've found _____ and ____ also' etc etc.

but, I think I'm going to put off putting your advice into action until a little later. I clearly need to spend more time shadowing (thanks to everyone for suggesting that) and it isn't like the only joy I get is from doing the things a doctor does (because I'm not actually doing anything), I also get happiness when I interact with people in need--it just doesn't seem to match the overwhelming sense of accomplishment that doctors often describe/my peers feel.

side note: I wanted to say a quick thanks to everyone who has commented, I'm considering all the suggestions. Also this smart/doctor debate has been really interesting to follow.

Oh, and thank you @DownUnderBlunder for your kind words, I'm really, really flattered. I know you were making a point, but still.

 

[NickNaylor]

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's ego. I don't know you and I didn't mean to imply any conclusions about you (excluding OP). So, for all I know, you're all the super smartest, bestest people in the world, and some of you call your BFF Bill Gates everyday to make fun of how childish Einstein's ideas were. I don't know either way, and sorry I implied I did know.

It wasn't my intention to mock physicians, but to motivate the OP to not doubt herself. @Doudline hit the nail on the head.

Look at her original post again: she is going to Dartmouth. Yeah, tens of thousands of people have attended Dartmouth, but - like docs - they generally are pretty sharp people. Then notice at how modest her writing is. There's no ego in it, yet she conveys ambition so well. Best of all, she isn't myopic about "saving people" and "medicine is my calling and I can't do anything else" but shares her other interests (albeit with reservations). I'm not an Adcom, but to me, she has easily exceeded the minimum criteria to be a forgettable doctor. I'm not saying she won't go on to do great things, but if she's worried about making the cut, you focus on the lowest rung.

EDIT: I realized we should maybe create a new thread if we want to continue this conversation? As it is derailing the topic at hand, which I think has a great deal of merit.

I would agree to some extent that medical school and medical training in particular has as much if not more to do with "the grind" (i.e., work ethic) than smarts. However, I also think you're short-changing your own intelligence a bit. A lot of the concepts that we take for granted in medical school are really quite abstract, and once you get into clinical practice being an effective clinician requires synthesizing lots of data quickly to come at an overall picture and treatment plan. I agree that it doesn't take a genius to be a doctor, but I don't think, for example, the average Joe would be capable of hacking it through training. And while you could probably teach a monkey to manage basic hypertension in someone with no other medical problems, it's a whole different beast altogether when someone comes in with multiple medical issues.

To the OP, as long as you have a good head on your shoulders (protip: you got into Dartmouth, you have a good head on your shoulders) and a good work ethic, I wouldn't be worry about making it through medical training from an academic perspective. I would focus instead on the points @mimelim brought up, which are a bit more existential and have a lot more to do with the fulfillment you are likely to gain from the career.

 

[Banco]

You don't need to be a saint to pursue medicine. But you do need to be aware of what you are getting yourself into. I think mimelim hit it out of the park and said it best with his post.

 

[Iridescent]

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's ego. I don't know you and I didn't mean to imply any conclusions about you (excluding OP). So, for all I know, you're all the super smartest, bestest people in the world, and some of you call your BFF Bill Gates everyday to make fun of how childish Einstein's ideas were. I don't know either way, and sorry I implied I did know.

It wasn't my intention to mock physicians, but to motivate the OP to not doubt herself. @Doudline hit the nail on the head.

Look at her original post again: she is going to Dartmouth. Yeah, tens of thousands of people have attended Dartmouth, but - like docs - they generally are pretty sharp people. Then notice at how modest her writing is. There's no ego in it, yet she conveys ambition so well. Best of all, she isn't myopic about "saving people" and "medicine is my calling and I can't do anything else" but shares her other interests (albeit with reservations). I'm not an Adcom, but to me, she has easily exceeded the minimum criteria to be a forgettable doctor. I'm not saying she won't go on to do great things, but if she's worried about making the cut, you focus on the lowest rung.

EDIT: I realized we should maybe create a new thread if we want to continue this conversation? As it is derailing the topic at hand, which I think has a great deal of merit.

Haha, again with the genius thing. No one is arguing that. The lack of an ego isn't going to exceed the minimum criteria to become a doctor for anyone else (although it's a good quality to have).

OP your GPA/MCAT scores can statistically predict how well you will do in medical school. Shadow, learn about the field, and figure out if you want to pursue medicine. While at the same time, focus on your GPA and MCAT.

 

[PREDOCSIMP]

So I've read dozens of threads about this subject, but I thought I would go ahead and get some more personal advice.

Basically, I have two worries...

1. I'm going to med school for the wrong reason. For example, a lot of my peers on the pre-med track have wanted this their whole lives/love helping people. I don't fit into either category: I've always been interested in science, but I only considered med school at the start of college. And although I like interacting and helping people, it isn't my main reason for wanting to be a doctor (more specifically a surgeon). My main reason is that I'm just purely interested in the what the professions entails--the science, techniques and responsibilities.

I've been a ballet dancer my whole life, and there is something about the discipline/precision involved in dance that translates to doctors too. It is this aspect that is appealing. I sincerely want to spend the rest of my life perfecting certain surgeries and practicing repeatedly so I can help people to the best of my abilities. That's what dance was: doing the same exercises everyday so that the next time you preformed a move, it was just a little bit better. I feel like the profession fits my personality.

2. I'm not particularly smart. It takes time for me to build confidence in my understanding of concepts. I need to review over and over and do as many problems as I can before I feel ready. While this has been a fine so far, I've heard how hard med school is/basically everything related to becoming a doctor and the last thing I want is to decide on this route and realize years later that I'm simply not academically capable of being a doctor.

So basically, what are your thoughts? Maybe I'm completely wrong about the profession and doesn't actually fit my personality? Although I've taken pre-reqs, I'm not 'locked' into anything. And increasingly, I'm shying away from this dream because I'm not sure my reasons are strong/good enough.

Genius is 99% preparation and 1% inspiration. No one comes out of the egg ahead of others.

 

[el_duderino]

Genius is 99% preparation and 1% inspiration. No one comes out of the egg ahead of others.

Are you kidding me? Some people need to study 12 hours a day to be average in medical school. Some need to study 2 hours for the same result. Some people will never make it to medical school no matter how hard they try.

Work counts for a lot, but it can only make up for so much. Medicine is definitely for smart people. It's not really the field for true genius, IMO, but you certainly need some innate ability.

 

[deleted480308]

Are you kidding me? Some people need to study 12 hours a day to be average in medical school. Some need to study 2 hours for the same result. Some people will never make it to medical school no matter how hard they try.

Work counts for a lot, but it can only make up for so much. Medicine is definitely for smart people. It's not really the field for true genius, IMO, but you certainly need some innate ability.

Exactly. I crushed people in undergrad without trying. I now work much harder than avg just trying to be average.

There is absolutely some level of ability required because this junk is just plain too difficult for below avg level intelligence

 

[DokterMom]

but, I think I'm going to put off putting your advice into action until a little later. I clearly need to spend more time shadowing (thanks to everyone for suggesting that) and it isn't like the only joy I get is from doing the things a doctor does (because I'm not actually doing anything), I also get happiness when I interact with people in need--it just doesn't seem to match the overwhelming sense of accomplishment that doctors often describe/my peers feel.

Not intended in a snarky way, but why on earth would you expect to feel an 'overwhelming sense of accomplishment' when shadowing a doctor when you (personally) haven't done anything but watch? Only a complete narcissist would feel any accomplishment at all just from having observed.

 

[theriomorphos]

,

 

[Law2Doc]

I'll just go ahead and say it straight out. There is no such thing as the "wrong" reasons, just as there are no "right" reasons. The questions that you need to be asking yourself and we will be asking of you when reading your application are:

For you, replace, "Is this person" with "Am I"...

#1 "Is this person going to survive the training?"
#2 "Is this person going to want to practice medicine after surviving the training?"
#3 "Does this person have the capacity to be a good physician?"
#4 "Is this person going to do good for patients, our community and our school?"

If the answer is no to any of those, you should not apply to medical school. If the answer is no to any of those, we shouldn't admit you to our medical school.

#1 - Medical school/residency is a lot of learning, for 7-11 years. You need to be academically capable. You need to have reasonable study skills. You need to have some language and communication proficiency. We typically figure this out by looking at your GPA/MCAT and classes you have taken

#2 Medical school/residency is long. To go down this road means sacrificing a lot. Money: school is expensive and you will be underpaid through 3-7 years of residency compared to how much you will work. Time: You will work and study long hours. The prize at the end is being a physician. As @Goro asks, do you really know what that means? Do you know what it means to be a physician? Never mind a surgeon, but do you want to spend 30+ years seeing sick people, touching them, taking care of them. Do you want to see 30 patients in a morning because that is how most jobs are setup?

#3 A little bit like #1, but this is more about drive. Are you driven? Are you going to pay attention to detail, even when it doesn't make you money and ends up costing you time?

#4 Kinda self explanatory.


Convince yourself that you want to be a physician. Shadow physicians, spend time in a hospital. Spend time in the outpatient setting. Spend time with a PCP. If you can see yourself doing what they do for a career, then you are applying for the right reasons.


Edit: There is a wrong reason: parental pressure or pressure from anyone that isn't yourself. @DokterMom is absolutely correct on that one.

Disagree with your initial sentence and strongly agree with your edit at the end. There ARE absolutely wrong reasons to go into this field. It's not for everyone, and the people you meet who are miserable often are people who went into it for the wrong reason. If you are doing it because it's what your parents want, that's a bad reason. If you are doing it primarily for money, prestige, job security or to be able to flaunt being a doctor at the bars those are bad reasons. I've met many people who thought it would be cool to be a doctor, but once they saw the study load and the hours and the countless nights and weekends on the wards got very dejected and miserable. This isn't something you get to dabble in a few hours a week -- it's a long highway with no exits for long stretches, where you keep going 65 mph or you get crushed by a semi. Now, if you love working with patients, or you love the work, or there's something you find exciting and interesting about the job function you'll probably be fine. If that's not your primary reason it's gonna suck. So shadow and make sure you know yourself and what you are getting into. I actually have no problem with OPs motivation with the exception that you really shouldn't pick a specialty before rotations. If the OP is going into medicine for the dance-like precision of surgery, what's going to happen when she hates her third year surgery rotation or when she tanks her boards and has to choose something less competitive? You have to be interested in doctoring, not a specialty at the onset to sensibly go this road. Once you are a few years in you can usefully start falling in love with a specialty.

 

[PREDOCSIMP]

Are you kidding me? Some people need to study 12 hours a day to be average in medical school. Some need to study 2 hours for the same result. Some people will never make it to medical school no matter how hard they try.

Work counts for a lot, but it can only make up for so much. Medicine is definitely for smart people. It's not really the field for true genius, IMO, but you certainly need some innate ability.

You forgot to include the past 10 years of same level of approach. Eventually, this accumulated to strong study skills that required less sitting down approach. Let's start early. Not in Medical school.

 

[el_duderino]

You forgot to include the past 10 years of same level of approach. Eventually, this accumulated to strong study skills that required less sitting down approach. Let's start early. Not in Medical school.

By the same level of approach, you clearly mean the difference between the person who has studied hours a day for their entire lives vs the person who generally crams a little before a test, and are both in the same med school class sticking to their old study habits and getting the same scores as each other?

 

[PREDOCSIMP]

By the same level of approach, you clearly mean the difference between the person who has studied hours a day for their entire lives vs the person who generally crams a little before a test, and are both in the same med school class sticking to their old study habits and getting the same scores as each other?

I am going to need some statistics*by accredited organizations before we go any further.

 

[el_duderino]

I am going to need some statistics before we go any further.

Look at me and sdh. I never studied much my entire life. I got straight As in all my college classes with virtually no studying, while I had multiple classmates who literally studied 8-10 hours a day to get Bs.

 

[PREDOCSIMP]

Look at me and sdh. I never studied much my entire life. I got straight As in all my college classes with virtually no studying, while I had multiple classmates who literally studied 8-10 hours a day to get Bs.

Okay, some people study differently than others.
Eventually,however, you had to open a book and read.
Studying for 10 hours? sounds excessive.

 

[el_duderino]

Okay, some people study differently than others.
Eventually,however, you had to open a book and read.
Studying for 10 hours? sounds excessive.

Different people have wildly different innate ability.

 

[PREDOCSIMP]

Different people have wildly different innate ability.

INATE ability that is persevered through dedication and hard work.

 

[el_duderino]

INATE ability that is persevered through dedication and hard work.

No, this is still completely wrong. Innate ability and work ethic are independent variables.

 

[Lancer]

INATE ability that is persevered through dedication and hard work.

I think you're trying to argue for the blank slate model, where everyone born is a blank slate and their own hard work brings them to where they are

But it's not a good model. Do you not know anyone who is extremely intelligent but also very lazy? Innate ability absolutely is a thing and doesn't have to do with how hard someone works. That being said, the most successful people are the ones who have both innate ability and hard work, but just hard work isn't enough

 

[Mr. Beefy Lion]

As others have pointed out you don't have to be overly intelligent to succeed in medicine. I realize grades/mcat are not completely indicative of intelligence, however, I have a LizzyM of 77 and don't feel I am intelligent enough for med school. I hope this helps you op.

 

[Nietzschelover]

Dan, you are more than intelligent enough for med school. But you apparently are also dumb enough to give yourself one of the worst SDN names I've seen. Hopefully no one will ever link you to that in real life, and hopefully you haven't any similar glaring social media errors.

 

[jl lin]

Can you think of anything in the medical field that does entice you? Like nursing, PA, Psychologist, etc?
If you can't see yourself living the life (4 yrs med school, 4 yrs etc surgery residency) it's good to evaluate it now.

Not to get all hokey, but if you saw yourself if 5, maybe 10 yrs and you were working and happy, could you visualize that? If so, what would you be doing?

Good points, but it is hard to visualize something with which you have had very little exposure /experience. I think the reasons for getting A LOT of direct, clinical exposure in busy places, like medical centers, etc, are number one in importance--especially for something like surgery or critical care medicine, or even general medicine. It's just wasting A LOT OF TIME, MONEY, and major amounts of STRESS to fight to get into a field for which you will have to prepare for a long time, and then work in for a long time. There are too many people that are chagrin with their career choice of medicine. Thank God, certainly not all, but the amount of folks is greater than people looking in from the outside know. People need to get a lot of exposure to what they will be getting into, and they then have to make projected calculations for increasing the affects and stress of that exposure by at least 100%.

Biggest mistake I have seen and see is the lack of intense or sound clinical exposure over time. I have no solid statistics for this AT ALL, but if I had to guess, I'd say about 1/3 of all that go to med school and make it through residency, etc, regret having done it but feel stuck b/c of the time and money commitment. You can tell the ones that have become or are on they way to becoming very chagrin with their roles in medicine. It also affects the quality of their work in a number of cases. But also, the other part of being chagrin may also have to do with being overworked and having the inadequate life-work-balance that many specialty areas require.

 

[Mr. Beefy Lion]

Dan, you are more than intelligent enough for med school. But you apparently are also dumb enough to give yourself one of the worst SDN names I've seen. Hopefully no one will ever link you to that in real life, and hopefully you haven't any similar glaring social media errors.

Not on any social media but do you think the fact that my face looks like a dick will be an issue at interviews?