Downloading copyrighted material... be afraid

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rentedmule said:
Here's a different scenario: What if someone is just streaming a movie online? People watch it, but never make "copies" of it. Is that also theft?

The game has changed grandpa. Adapt or gtfo.
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Are they streaming it legally through a recognized media service (i.e. Hulu)? Sure.

Are they streaming it off of a torrent? No.

Media generally comes with terms of service that dictate the manner that you can legally use the media (you know, unauthorized distribution and whatnot). Streaming illegally would fit that bill.

Here, since you'll probably have an easier time with pictures:
513WRBkFBI-4inBig.jpg
 
I always zone out during that FBI warning. Is that talking to me?

I'm entitled to whatever I want, right?
 
NickNaylor said:
The best analogy that I can come up with at this point is going to a Six Flags park without paying the admission fee.
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That is certainly a better analogy, but it still misses the mark. The park has a limited capacity, and each visitor still has an incremental cost (wear on the facilities, use of the various services). In contrast, with illicit copying of digital media, the incremental cost is generally borne by the ISPs involved, which are being paid by their users.... unless you're also leaching on your neighbor's wireless.
 
Whatyousay said:
Are they streaming it legally through a recognized media service (i.e. Hulu)? Sure.

Are they streaming it off of a torrent? No.

Media generally comes with terms of service that dictate the manner that you can legally use the media (you know, unauthorized distribution and whatnot). Streaming illegally would fit that bill.

Here, since you'll probably have an easier time with pictures:
513WRBkFBI-4inBig.jpg
Click to expand...



That picture makes it pretty clear. It's too bad they don't put that at the beginning of every film. Oh wait..

To anyone who torrents you are just as guilty from a legal standpoint; even if you aren't uploading/seeding.
 
Gnomes said:
That is certainly a better analogy, but it still misses the mark. The park has a limited capacity, and each visitor still has an incremental cost (wear on the facilities, use of the various services). In contrast, with illicit copying of digital media, the incremental cost is generally borne by the ISPs involved, which are being paid by their users.... unless you're also leaching on your neighbor's wireless.
Click to expand...

You do know what an analogy is, right? I can't possibly come up with a situation that is a identical to pirating, only similar. Say the park can handle an infinite amount of guests and, aside from the initial costs to build everything, requires no money to run nor suffers from depreciation.

You're still conveniently ignoring the fact that pirating media pays results in no licensing fees THAT THE COMPANY AND ARTIST LEGALLY DESERVE. How is this not the equivalent of theft?

And your ISP has absolutely nothing to do with this other than potentially terminating your service for being a fool.

Either I'm not speaking English or some of the people in this thread have a mental handicap.
 
I am in awe at how so many of you are apparently unable to think critically about the motives and origins of the "FBI" warning.

...

Thanks, it makes me feel a lot better about this applications cycle.
 
Gnomes said:
I am in awe at how so many of you are apparently unable to think critically about the motives and origins of the "FBI" warning.

...

Thanks, it makes me feel a lot better about this applications cycle.
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight. Pirating is somehow justified because - here it goes - GROUPS WHOSE PRODUCTS WEREN'T BEING PAID FOR APPEALED TO THE FBI SO THAT LAWS WOULD BE ENFORCED?

Sweet Jesus.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/YOUTUBE]
 
NickNaylor said:
Let me get this straight. Pirating is somehow justified because - here it goes - GROUPS WHOSE PRODUCTS WEREN'T BEING PAID FOR APPEALED TO THE FBI SO THAT LAWS WOULD BE ENFORCED?
Click to expand...

No, I didn't say that, nor even imply it. I'm just amused by the people thinking that this is something that the FBI concerns itself with because they have the legal power to do so and because industry groups put up a deliberately scary-looking advertisement on things.

Be reasonable. Legal power and resources to do actual enforcement are two different things. The FBI does not have any interest in John Doe torrenting movies and the "FBI" warning is a base scare tactic, whatever the moral issues of illicit copying. They are (quite rightly) focusing on actual problems, such as the thousands of counterfeit DVDs coming in from Southeast Asia, etc.
 
Is it right for shoes to be made in China for 5 cents and sold for $70? No, but big corporations do it. I call that stealing. That's why I download whatever I want and not give a ****. No one cares about you...why care about them? Don't make the argument to me that the profit the company makes has no bearing on whether pirating is considered theft. The truth is, when companies put an absurd price on a product or service (especially when it's a monopoly!), people feel like they are being robbed.

If I were to discover a pill that would cure cancer and put a price tag of $1,000,000 on it, wouldn't you feel robbed if you had to make payments for the rest of your life?

Plus, maybe the music and movie companies should invest in some research to prevent duplication of their material. It's their fault they have a loop hole.

-Get played.
 
Calheesh said:
Is it right for shoes to be made in China for 5 cents and sold for $70? No, but big corporations do it. I call that stealing. That's why I download whatever I want and not give a ****. No one cares about you...why care about them? Don't make the argument to me that the profit the company makes has no bearing on whether pirating is considered theft. The truth is, when companies put an absurd price on a product or service (especially when it's a monopoly!), people feel like they are being robbed.

If I were to discover a pill that would cure cancer and put a price tag of $1,000,000 on it, wouldn't you feel robbed if you had to make payments for the rest of your life?

Plus, maybe the music and movie company should invest in some research to prevent duplication of their material. It's their fault they have a loop hole.

-Get played.
Click to expand...

You have got to be joking.
 
Gnomes said:
No, I didn't say that, nor even imply it. I'm just amused by the people thinking that this is something that the FBI concerns itself with because they have the power to do so and because industry groups put up a deliberately scary-looking advertisement on things.

Be reasonable. The FBI does not have any interest in John Doe torrenting movies and the "FBI" warning is a base scare tactic, whatever the moral issues of illicit copying. They are (quite rightly) focusing on actual problems, such as the thousands of counterfeit DVDs coming in from Southeast Asia, etc.
Click to expand...

What was your point then? Somehow I'm still not seeing where you're making any useful points in this argument.
 
Calheesh said:
Is it right for shoes to be made in China for 5 cents and sold for $70? No, but big corporations do it. I call that stealing. That's why I download whatever I want and not give a ****. No one cares about you...why care about them? Don't make the argument to me that the profit the company makes has no bearing on whether pirating is considered theft. The truth is, when companies put an absurd price on a product or service (especially when it's a monopoly!), people feel like they are being robbed.
Click to expand...

I have my own beef with the RIAA and their ilk, but...

99 cents for a song is an absurd price?
10 bucks for a movie that cost tens of millions of dollars to produce and distribute is too much?

Here's a hint: if you don't agree with the price that a company sets, you're free to not purchase they're product. You're acting like someone is holding a gun up to your head and forcing you to buy something you don't want.

If I were to discover a pill that would cure cancer and put a price tag of $1,000,000 on it, wouldn't you feel robbed if you had to make payments for the rest of your life?
Click to expand...

You're comparing stealing electronic media to a hypothetical price for a cure for cancer? Uh, okay.

Plus, maybe the music and movie companies should invest in some research to prevent duplication of their material. It's their fault they have a loop hole.

-Get played.
Click to expand...

They have: it's called DRM.
 
NickNaylor said:
You have got to be joking.
Click to expand...

No, I am not. But hey, you have your opinion and that's fine. But you must be fooling yourself if you don't think you have ever been taken advantage of by a big corporation.... Almost as if they stole from your pocket. How does it feel Nick? Ha? Tell meeeeeee. :scared:
 
Calheesh said:
No, I am not. But hey, you have your opinion and that's fine. But you must be fooling yourself if you don't think you have ever been taken advantage of by a big corporation.... Almost as if they stole from your pocket. How does it feel Nick? Ha? Tell meeeeeee. :scared:
Click to expand...

If you don't like how much your tennis shoes cost, then maybe you should make your own shoes. If you don't like how much your medication cost, maybe you should do your own research and discover and test your own medications.

You're not forced to buy anything any business offers. Making yourself the victim because you feel like you get "taken advantage" of by big corporations for stuff you VOLUNTARILY BUY is absurd. And then using that as justification for stealing things... good God, man. I know this might be a surprise to you, but this stuff that you feel like you're getting ripped off on actually cost people a lot of time and money to create and produce. Or would you be ok if people didn't pay you for your services once you become a physician?
 
Whatyousay said:
I have my own beef with the RIAA and their ilk, but...

99 cents for a song is an absurd price?
10 bucks for a movie that cost tens of millions of dollars to produce and distribute is too much?

Here's a hint: if you don't agree with the price that a company sets, you're free to not purchase they're product. You're acting like someone is holding a gun up to your head and forcing you to buy something you don't want.



You're comparing stealing electronic media to a hypothetical price for a cure for cancer? Uh, okay.



They have: it's called DRM.
Click to expand...

I guess you missed the point about monopolies? In which case you are pretty much held at gun point. You don't have much of a choice do you?

And about being hypothetical...That's all this forum has been about. Just illustrating a point.
 
Calheesh said:
I guess you missed the point about monopolies? In which case you are pretty much held at gun point. You don't have much of a choice do you?

And about being hypothetical...That's all this forum has been about. Just illustrating a point.
Click to expand...

Name some monopolies that screw you over on a daily basis.
 
Calheesh said:
Is it right for shoes to be made in China for 5 cents and sold for $70? No, but big corporations do it. I call that stealing. That's why I download whatever I want and not give a ****. No one cares about you...why care about them? Don't make the argument to me that the profit the company makes has no bearing on whether pirating is considered theft. The truth is, when companies put an absurd price on a product or service (especially when it's a monopoly!), people feel like they are being robbed.

If I were to discover a pill that would cure cancer and put a price tag of $1,000,000 on it, wouldn't you feel robbed if you had to make payments for the rest of your life?

Plus, maybe the music and movie companies should invest in some research to prevent duplication of their material. It's their fault they have a loop hole.

-Get played.
Click to expand...

Wow. This post reeks of naivety and ignorance. Not only are you completely off the mark and wrong in your claims that what businesses do is considered "theft" - It's not theft or stealing - but you actually use the always wrong argument of "Well, what they're doing is wrong, so I'll do that, too!" Nicely done. You're going to just keep doing wrong because they're "doing wrong", too? Is that how you deal with cops? You go out speeding recklessly and run traffic lights because some cops do it? Do you disobey traffic laws because cops do that? Why not do that, too? 🙄


NickNaylor said:
You're not forced to buy anything any business offers. Making yourself the victim because you feel like you get "taken advantage" of by big corporations for stuff you VOLUNTARILY BUY is absurd. And then using that as justification for stealing things... good God, man. I know this might be a surprise to you, but this stuff that you feel like you're getting ripped off on actually cost people a lot of time and money to create and produce. Or would you be ok if people didn't pay you for your services once you become a physician?
Click to expand...

I torrent my own prescriptions for pills so I don't have to pay the cost of going to a physician. Healthcare is a system setup to **** me over, so I'm gonna' stick it to them by downloading the .pdf scripts and getting them filled at walgreens. I'm eagerly awaiting for the ability to download pills from the internets, too.
 
Calheesh said:
I guess you missed the point about monopolies? In which case you are pretty much held at gun point. You don't have much of a choice do you?

And about being hypothetical...That's all this forum has been about. Just illustrating a point.
Click to expand...

Really? Pharmaceuticals are monopolies? Do you know what the definition of a monopoly IS?
 
Calheesh said:
I guess you missed the point about monopolies? In which case you are pretty much held at gun point. You don't have much of a choice do you?

And about being hypothetical...That's all this forum has been about. Just illustrating a point.
Click to expand...

You're being forced to buy a non-essential service? Whether or not the music industry is monopolized (I think it's closer to an oligopy, but whatever) doesn't justify stealing their product. The music corporations own the rights to their product - therefore, they have the right to sell it at a price that they see fit, regardless of whether or not it matches the product's market value. The onus is on the consumer to determine whether or not the price of the product matches their personal perception of the product's value. If you don't like the price, move on. I think it's ridiculous that a box of cereal costs anything more than a dollar, but I pay the Man his asking fee because I love eating Cap'n Crunch.
 
NickNaylor said:
If you don't like how much your tennis shoes cost, then maybe you should make your own shoes. If you don't like how much your medication cost, maybe you should do your own research and discover and test your own medications.

You're not forced to buy anything any business offers. Making yourself the victim because you feel like you get "taken advantage" of by big corporations for stuff you VOLUNTARILY BUY is absurd. And then using that as justification for stealing things... good God, man. I know this might be a surprise to you, but this stuff that you feel like you're getting ripped off on actually cost people a lot of time and money to create and produce. Or would you be ok if people didn't pay you for your services once you become a physician?
Click to expand...

When it's made in China for 5 cents? Sure. Keep fooling yourself kid.
 
Calheesh said:
When it's made in China for 5 cents? Sure. Keep fooling yourself kid.
Click to expand...

5 cents? Even for a hypothetical value, that's ridiculous.

So are you an ardent believer that corporations should sell their product at the same price as it costs to manufacture them? Does the idea of generating a profit margin make you angry? If you were truly concerned about social justice, you would just purchase shoes/songs/whatever made in the USA (i.e. New Balance) instead of complaining about companies that manufacture their products overseas.. Problem solved.
 
Kaustikos said:
Music is made in china for 5 cents? 😕 Damn you, Radiohead! You PUNK'D me GOOD! 😡
Click to expand...

You must not be reading the thread. Good one. I'll let you figure it out. Why are you all so hostile anyways? If I gave you a burned CD with microsoft word etc.... I am sure you guys would take it if you needed it right? I mean why would you pay. Don't try to bring up an analogy of you giving me a stolen car lol because I have a feeling that someone is going to say that.

Don't get me wrong, I respect all of your views about not pirating etc. I also know that profit has to be made for businesses to thrive. But I guess when it comes to the internet and downloading, it doesn't feel like you are making a huge impact because many people are doing it. To me, it's as if whatever is put on the internet, should be up for grabs because you aren't taking anything from an established business. It's not as if I am hacking into amazon and ordering stuff with a stolen credit card. Like others view it, I see it as sharing. In the same way people share movies and cd's.
 
Calheesh said:
You must not be reading the thread. Good one. I'll let you figure it out. Why are you all so hostile anyways? If I gave you a burned CD with microsoft word etc.... I am sure you guys would take it if you needed it right? I mean why would you pay. Don't try to bring up an analogy of you giving me a stolen car lol because I have a feeling that someone is going to say that.

Don't get me wrong, I respect all of your views about not pirating etc. I also know that profit has to be made for businesses to thrive. But I guess when it comes to the internet and downloading, it doesn't feel like you are making a huge impact because many people are doing it. To me, it's as if whatever is put on the internet, should be up for grabs because you aren't taking anything from an established business. It's not as if I am hacking into amazon and ordering stuff with a stolen credit card. Like others view it, I see it as sharing. In the same way people share movies and cd's.
Click to expand...

Not_Sure_if_Serious-(n1292338719834).jpg
 
Calheesh said:
You must not be reading the thread. Good one. I'll let you figure it out. Why are you all so hostile anyways? If I gave you a burned CD with microsoft word etc.... I am sure you guys would take it if you needed it right? I mean why would you pay. Don't try to bring up an analogy of you giving me a stolen car lol because I have a feeling that someone is going to say that.

Don't get me wrong, I respect all of your views about not pirating etc. I also know that profit has to be made for businesses to thrive. But I guess when it comes to the internet and downloading, it doesn't feel like you are making a huge impact because many people are doing it. To me, it's as if whatever is put on the internet, should be up for grabs because you aren't taking anything from an established business. It's not as if I am hacking into amazon and ordering stuff with a stolen credit card. Like others view it, I see it as sharing. In the same way people share movies and cd's.
Click to expand...

I was mocking your post with that remark.:meanie: Again, I never said I'm not guilty of DOING IT. Just don't try to justify your actions, that's all. I can at least admit that what I'm doing IS wrong, hence why I'm taking actions to prevent doing it (ie; Zune subscription to download all the music legally/netflix for movies). I realize that these actions are wrong - and that's what's baffling to me; people here trying to say it's not wrong.
 
Kaustikos said:
I was mocking your post with that remark.:meanie: Again, I never said I'm not guilty of DOING IT. Just don't try to justify your actions, that's all. I can at least admit that what I'm doing IS wrong, hence why I'm taking actions to prevent doing it (ie; Zune subscription to download all the music legally/netflix for movies). I realize that these actions are wrong - and that's what's baffling to me; people here trying to say it's not wrong.
Click to expand...

Its not wrong. I download music and porn all day long, and then I listen to the music while I watch the porn, and then I laugh at all those skanks who aren't getting a cent from me for spreading their legs. WINNING!
 
Darwinism said:
Do you own a car? Pay for Gas?
Click to expand...

I don't know, OPEC went out of their way to boost up production a couple months ago to bring down oil prices (and to shift the talk away from alternative energy sources). That being said, oil, as a commodity, operates in a different manner from manufactured products.

OPEC is still an evil organization, though.
 
Darwinism said:
Its not wrong. I download music and porn all day long, and then I listen to the music while I watch the porn, and then I laugh at all those skanks who aren't getting a cent from me for spreading their legs. WINNING!
Click to expand...

:laugh:👍
 
rentedmule said:
The MPAA/RIAA White Knight's shining armor deflects any attempts at hard evidence.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/04/pump_pain.html
Click to expand...

Because hard evidence isn't necessary in this case. What you're doing is wrong, wrong, wrong, you're wrooooooong, you're wrooooooong, you're wrooooooooooooooooooooooong. Why does it matter how much you're taking from the pockets of people in the music/television/theater industries? At what point does stealing go from justified to not jusitified?

The black knight in ******* armor deflects any attempts at logic.

Also, that link was cute, but isn't relevant to anything being discussed. If you don't like gas prices, don't drive a gas-powered car. Otherwise quit you're bitchin'.
 
Are there any waffles in this thread? I like waffles. Where can I download waffles??
 
How does the 'fairness' of the price of music factor into this at all? Businesses have the right to set the price for their goods and services at whatever level they feel like. If you feel that the price of music is unfair, the solution is to not own music, not to just find a way to acquire it without paying.

Also, the sharing argument is still ridiculous. When you share a movie or a song with a friend, you still only have one copy of it (the copy you purchased a license for). When you pirate music or movies, you make more copies of it. There are no commercial licenses that allow you to do that, which means that yes, you are stealing.
 
NickNaylor said:
Because hard evidence isn't necessary in this case. What you're doing is wrong, wrong, wrong, you're wrooooooong, you're wrooooooong, you're wrooooooooooooooooooooooong. Why does it matter how much you're taking from the pockets of people in the music/television/theater industries? At what point does stealing go from justified to not jusitified?

The black knight in ******* armor deflects any attempts at logic.

Also, that link was cute, but isn't relevant to anything being discussed. If you don't like gas prices, don't drive a gas-powered car. Otherwise quit you're bitchin'.
Click to expand...
That's racist...

I think it's cute that you think people have a choice in getting a car that doesn't run on petroleum based energy. You keep spouting that conservative, holier than thou, unrealistic mumbo jumbo sunshine.
 
rentedmule said:
That's racist...

I think it's cute that you think people have a choice in getting a car that doesn't run on petroleum based energy. You keep spouting that conservative, holier than thou, unrealistic mumbo jumbo sunshine.
Click to expand...

No. You can just ride the bus. Or use a horse-drawn carriage (actually, are those road-legal?).
 
rentedmule said:
That's racist...

I think it's cute that you think people have a choice in getting a car that doesn't run on petroleum based energy. You keep spouting that conservative, holier than thou, unrealistic mumbo jumbo sunshine.
Click to expand...

See the above. Public transportation is available in many major cities. You can also use a bicycle. Or hell, even a scooter.

You and other people's argument is somehow that because you're "required" to use these things, companies should have no motive to profit as much as they can from what they provide. And that's stupid. No one is forcing you to use vehicles.

How this relates back to arguing that stealing music is ok, I don't know, but I'm sure you'll enlighten us.
 
rentedmule said:
That's racist...

I think it's cute that you think people have a choice in getting a car that doesn't run on petroleum based energy. You keep spouting that conservative, holier than thou, unrealistic mumbo jumbo sunshine.
Click to expand...

I'd rather read Nick's posts about being a law abiding citizen than posts by some crybaby whining about oil company profits.
 
Whatyousay said:
No. You can just ride the bus. Or use a horse-drawn carriage (actually, are those road-legal?).
Click to expand...
Because buses don't run on gasoline and because bus routes are always available where you live and always connect to every place you desire to venture to.

ImOnAHorse3_1_2010_3_Awesome_T_Shirt_Prints-s1000x708-200272-580.jpg
 
kcin said:
I'd rather read Nick's posts about being a law abiding citizen than posts by some crybaby whining about oil company profits.
Click to expand...
A wild brown-noser appears.


NickNaylor said:
And they definitely aren't cheaper than owning your own vehicle, that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Can you please run for office? Your impeccable platform would propel 'Murrica to the 22nd Century in less than 3 months.
 
rentedmule said:
Because buses don't run on gasoline and because bus routes are always available where you live and always connect to every place you desire to venture to.
Click to expand...

Occasionally you'll need to walk. Or call a taxi. Or ride a bike. People use cars because they're convenient. If you don't like the idea of paying for that convenience, you'll obviously find yourself in some inconvenient positions. It all comes back to whether or not you're willing to pay for services/products that you desire.

The fact that buses run on gasoline is irrelevant. It's not like you're the one footing the bill for the gas - you're just paying to go from Point A to Point B.
 
I am in no way promoting piracy because it is wrong, but there were just some things that people (like me) can't afford....
 
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