- Joined
- Aug 19, 2013
- Messages
- 53
- Reaction score
- 9
- Points
- 4,551
Downward trend due to transfer
- Thread starter somuchwater
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 22,444
- Reaction score
- 19,843
- Points
- 8,731
- Attending Physician
Looks like somebody hasn't been paying attention to Neuronix's rules for success as a Pre-MSTP. Putting everything else aside, this one thing may have sunk your chance for MD/PhD all by itself.
Also, you don't mention one of the most critical needs for MD/PhD applicants...your research background.
Do you need to have a second major? Unless you need the second major to pursue a specific area of research, it is not worth the pain. Second (and third) majors have a low return on investment; admissions committees are not as impressed with them as you might think. The additional work can lower your GPA and limit the amount of time available for research. A second major with blah research will lose out every time to a single major with strong research. If you do not need the second major and can still drop the classes, do so now.
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2013
- Messages
- 53
- Reaction score
- 9
- Points
- 4,551
I'm not doing it for the adcoms. I'm doing it for myself. I know how hard MD and MD/PhD admissions are and I have a family to support. I wanted to make sure that when I got out of school, I didn't need to resort to a lab tech position or anything. I've always wanted to do CS since I was a freshman but kept holding it off until I decided I didn't want to anymore. I actually really love it and I knew it was difficult, but I thoroughly enjoy it.
As far as research , I have a couple years. Senior year of HS to now which is five years with one more year of college to go.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2013
- Messages
- 160
- Reaction score
- 51
- Points
- 4,671
- Resident [Any Field]
If you don't learn to listen to advice, this is going to be a rough path for you
Totally respect what you are doing, but as a poster above said none of this really matters if you haven't been substantially involved in research? Where are you at with that? If what you are saying also includes oustanding research experience and maybe a publicaiton, then that is a much different story than just this alone. Feel free to PM bc I think what you are doing is overall better for MD/PhDs as a whole (aka not taking the easiest path to GPA and doing what you are interested in), but you are going to have to craft that as a very careful story, especially if you are minus any significant research experience (if you are I would suggest one year off to do research after undergrad, should not be hard to find if you have a computational background)
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2015
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 4,531
- Medical Student (Accepted)
I personally dual majored in Electrical Engineering and Biochemistry, so I can comment a bit on the dual major and its impact on research / admissions for MSTP. However, your post doesn't tell me enough to give you much advice.
First, though, I must ask: What is your other major in?
If it isn't in a science degree, you are in trouble.
Also, please describe your research. How many conferences / publications do you anticipate to have by the time your apply? This matters more than any other aspect of your application, and no one can advise you on doing an MS unless they know what your letters + research look like.
ECs
These matter a lot less than you'd think. As a rule for an MD-PhD applicant, you want to trade almost all of your EC time for research.
If you can, do ECs that involve education / your research. You should enjoy teaching / mentoring people if you want to do be an MD-PhD. If you don't like talking about research, you probably should find a different career.
Make sure you don't have exactly zero ECs, as that would hurt you, but doing 10 hours / week during your entire degree is WAY worse than doing 10 hours a week for a year, then doing as much research as possible.
Clinical Exposure
How much do you have? If you're doing engineering + science, it's easy for people who say "ah yes, I see why a PhD is good. Why do an MD-PhD?"
If you can, work in a clinical research group and interact with hospital staff such as techs / nurses, in addition to shadowing clinicians.
This is particularly true when you're doing an engineering degree that lends itself to "dry lab" work.
Your GPA
If you have a 3.8 science GPA and a 3.65 cumulative GPA, your academics should be competitive.
A one-of 3.0 semester early in your academic career isn't going to exclude you.
However, if you are struggling in your junior / senior level courses (you said you were having trouble finishing your assignments), you definitely are risking your application. If this is the case, take a 5th year. You transferred and dual majored in an engineering degree, so spending 5 years won't hurt you at all. Use the 5th year to get a publication.
Dual majoring in engineering + research
I personally found that dual majoring in engineering + science and doing research hurt dramatically hurt my GPA. When I wasn't doing research, I found it was doable to stay around 3.8, but when I did a ton of original research I would accumulate A-s and B+s. Tell the people in this thread what your research progress is like, including how many hours per week you're doing. If you're doing 15+ hours a week in a lab and are presenting your research / publishing and are still pulling a 3.8 with a dual major, you're probably competitive for a top 10 MSTP program next cycle.
The Power of a CS Degree for MSTP
The advantage of holding a CS degree is that there are tons of high power labs that want you. If you provide a valuable enough skillset, you can get your MS paid for by your PI.
This means that you'll be able to contribute a ton to your lab, meaning that you'll get a bunch of publications and a great relationship with your PI. This matters more than the fact that you dual-majored.
MCAT
This is way more worrisome than your GPA. 3.8 science GPA = competitive for Top 10 schools, but 32 MCAT is not.
It's unfortunate you took it while dual majoring and in school. If you feel that you could realistically score 36+, you might want to retake it. (e.g., if you got 37-41 on your practice exams, or you took biochem after you took the MCAT). I don't know much about how having 2 different MCAT scores on your app affects it, but you might want to research it. If you do an MS, you might be forced to retake it.
Overall
It's hard to know much about your app from what you wrote, but it sounds like your GPA is fine, your MCAT is low, and your research is likely weak (I assume you'd lead with "I have a publication" if you had one).
If you work in a lab after you graduate and can publish something, you'll be competitive for MSTP.
Based on the fact that you didn't talk about your research in your post, you likely need to do a lot of research on what the MD-PhD career is about. It's very different from MD only, you won't get in if you don't understand what the career entails.
Your post sounds like you were thinking about MD-admissions more than MSTP admissions.
First, though, I must ask: What is your other major in?
If it isn't in a science degree, you are in trouble.
Also, please describe your research. How many conferences / publications do you anticipate to have by the time your apply? This matters more than any other aspect of your application, and no one can advise you on doing an MS unless they know what your letters + research look like.
ECs
These matter a lot less than you'd think. As a rule for an MD-PhD applicant, you want to trade almost all of your EC time for research.
If you can, do ECs that involve education / your research. You should enjoy teaching / mentoring people if you want to do be an MD-PhD. If you don't like talking about research, you probably should find a different career.
Make sure you don't have exactly zero ECs, as that would hurt you, but doing 10 hours / week during your entire degree is WAY worse than doing 10 hours a week for a year, then doing as much research as possible.
Clinical Exposure
How much do you have? If you're doing engineering + science, it's easy for people who say "ah yes, I see why a PhD is good. Why do an MD-PhD?"
If you can, work in a clinical research group and interact with hospital staff such as techs / nurses, in addition to shadowing clinicians.
This is particularly true when you're doing an engineering degree that lends itself to "dry lab" work.
Your GPA
If you have a 3.8 science GPA and a 3.65 cumulative GPA, your academics should be competitive.
A one-of 3.0 semester early in your academic career isn't going to exclude you.
However, if you are struggling in your junior / senior level courses (you said you were having trouble finishing your assignments), you definitely are risking your application. If this is the case, take a 5th year. You transferred and dual majored in an engineering degree, so spending 5 years won't hurt you at all. Use the 5th year to get a publication.
Dual majoring in engineering + research
I personally found that dual majoring in engineering + science and doing research hurt dramatically hurt my GPA. When I wasn't doing research, I found it was doable to stay around 3.8, but when I did a ton of original research I would accumulate A-s and B+s. Tell the people in this thread what your research progress is like, including how many hours per week you're doing. If you're doing 15+ hours a week in a lab and are presenting your research / publishing and are still pulling a 3.8 with a dual major, you're probably competitive for a top 10 MSTP program next cycle.
The Power of a CS Degree for MSTP
The advantage of holding a CS degree is that there are tons of high power labs that want you. If you provide a valuable enough skillset, you can get your MS paid for by your PI.
This means that you'll be able to contribute a ton to your lab, meaning that you'll get a bunch of publications and a great relationship with your PI. This matters more than the fact that you dual-majored.
MCAT
This is way more worrisome than your GPA. 3.8 science GPA = competitive for Top 10 schools, but 32 MCAT is not.
It's unfortunate you took it while dual majoring and in school. If you feel that you could realistically score 36+, you might want to retake it. (e.g., if you got 37-41 on your practice exams, or you took biochem after you took the MCAT). I don't know much about how having 2 different MCAT scores on your app affects it, but you might want to research it. If you do an MS, you might be forced to retake it.
Overall
It's hard to know much about your app from what you wrote, but it sounds like your GPA is fine, your MCAT is low, and your research is likely weak (I assume you'd lead with "I have a publication" if you had one).
If you work in a lab after you graduate and can publish something, you'll be competitive for MSTP.
Based on the fact that you didn't talk about your research in your post, you likely need to do a lot of research on what the MD-PhD career is about. It's very different from MD only, you won't get in if you don't understand what the career entails.
Your post sounds like you were thinking about MD-admissions more than MSTP admissions.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 15,218
- Reaction score
- 9,816
- Points
- 6,836
- Location
- the lake
- Attending Physician
Ok, so what's your cum GPA? If it's still above 3.6 or it can get there, you're not in bad shape.
I agree with the posters above. You don't need a second major. It's not going to help you. You're demonstrating that it's hurting you. Switch it to a minor. You've already stubbornly defended this. If you want to do computer science, maybe you should drop your first major and just major in comp sci.
It would be perceived poorly by adcoms. This shows a lack of planning and judgement on your part. Your stubborn defense of this bad decision making on this thread only serves to make us, and adcoms, question your decision making in the future. The proper response here is:
"CRAP I SCREWED UP. HOW DO I SALVAGE THIS???" Not: "I'm not doing it for the adcoms. I'm doing it for myself."
You can do whatever you want "for yourself", but you will need to get admitted to med school. And this isn't just about MD/PhD. If you sink your GPA, you're closing a lot of doors, whether that's MD/PhD, MD, or even a big name comp sci PhD program.
Is it too late to withdraw? Pull out of one or two of your worst classes. Take the Ws. Explain that you came to a new school and the adjustment was harder than you thought. Nobody will care if those are the only Ws on your transcript. Then you can focus on acing the remaining classes.
That's the thing. This is very hard to fix. This is the worst thing to try to fix. MCAT can be retaken. Research experience can be gained. Volunteering and extracurriculars can easily be obtained. GPAs can't be redone. If you retake a class, it doesn't remove the old grade. That only happens for DO programs, and DO/PhD practically doesn't exist. SMPs are costly, extremely competitive, and almost never worth it for someone in this position.
However it's not necessarily doom and gloom for you. The most important number here is your cum GPA. If you can still salvage that cum GPA back to something like a 3.6, this situation isn't so bad. Less than 3.6, and it's all shades of gray on down.
