Doximity Compensation Report 2018

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HueySmith

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I'm surprised and somewhat skeptical at the compensation listed for large metropolitan areas. It almost seems like the popular, desirable locations pay more than the crappier locales, and in fact more than the national average. San Diego, LA, Salt Lake City and Austin pay significantly better than Cleveland and Birmingham? You Wut Mate
 
I'm kind of surprised that Houston supposedly pays pretty well for primary care providers seeing as how it has the Texas Medical Center and around 4 med schools. I figured the market would be saturated.
 
Siromas said:
Highest PC pay:
25: Houston @ $262k

Lowest PC pay:
25: Chicago @ $261k

Anyone else concerned that the difference between the lowest of the high list and the highest of the low list are separated by <1k? :eyebrow::eyebrow::eyebrow:

Today I learned that America only has 50 "metro areas"
Click to expand...

It’s a stupid set up, but you essentially have to read it as 1-25 of the top list and then 25-1 of the bottom list. They should have just done one 1-50 list.
 
jw3600 said:
Numbers seem too high. Regional stuff seems...wrong. They are pushing the gender wage gap thing like it's the Rwandan genocide. Just fade me.
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Oh I know that part is garbage completely. I'm just wishing the numbers weren't too high cuz I'd love that $$$
 
jw3600 said:
Doximity continues to put out garbage.
Click to expand...

jw3600 said:
Numbers seem too high. Regional stuff seems...wrong. They are pushing the gender wage gap thing like it's the Rwandan genocide. Just fade me.
Click to expand...

I have no experience or frame of reference for these numbers? How are they flawed? Was it their sample size, reporting bias?

From this 2015 MGMA thread, the numbers generally aren't enormously different:
  • Family medicine: $235,019 (Mean after 3-7yrs attending) 2015 MGMA vs. $241,000 2018 Doximity
  • Internal medicine (General): $227,927 2015 MGMA vs. $260,000 2018 Doximity
  • Emergency medicine: $380,298 2015 MGMA vs. $336,000 2018 Doximity
  • Diagnostic radiology: $459,285 2015 MGMA vs. $431,000 2018 Doximity
  • Cardiology (noninvasive): $439,742 2015 MGMA vs. $473,000 2018 Doximity
There's some larger discrepancies in the surgical specialties, but they seem to be less compensation according to Doximity:
  • Neurosurgery: $932,080 (Mean after 3-7yrs attending) 2015 MGMA vs. $663,000 2018 Doximity
  • Orthopedic surgery - General: $630,196 2015 MGMA vs. $538,000 2018 Doximity
  • Orthopedic surgery - Spine: $858,276 2015MGMA
  • No compensation data under Surgery: Thoracic (Primary) in the 2015 MGMA report
  • Surgery - Cardiovascular: $604,138 (mean after 13-17 yrs attending) vs. Thoracic surgery: $603,000 2018 Doximity
 
Atom612 said:
I have no experience or frame of reference for these numbers? How are they flawed? Was it their sample size, reporting bias?
Click to expand...

From the report:
"Doximity's study is drawn from self-reported compensation surveys completed in 2016 and 2017 by more than 65,000 full-time, licensed U.S. physicians who practice at least 40 hours per week. Responses were mapped across metropolitan statistical areas, and the top 50 were ranked by the number of respondents in the data."

Comparatively, Medscape had a sample size of 19,200 in 2017.
 
Northeast cities are brutal for physicians. I am surprised not many people are talking about it.
 
I can't help but feel that there is a massive sampling bias in most of these big surveys. Yes I have seen some docs who work their butt off, especially in private practice and large specialty groups who take home these kinds of salaries or more, but it's hard to believe that these are true averages as many fields seem much lower on average when I talk to actual attendings, especially ones who are employed or in academics.

Some of these seem believable to me, like 600k for thoracic surgery, some seem low like Neurosurgery (the few I've talked to seem to make much more than ~650), while others are absurdly high like ~400k for optho. There are probably a lot of optho docs clearing 400k+ per year, but for each one of them I would assume you have many more sitting between 325-375.

This list looks more like PP experienced docs than, newer graduates or employed physicians. Not to mention, who would be more likely to fill out these surveys, younger docs in employed positions, or people who have spent their whole lives building successful practices and want to feel good about their salaries?
 
It's unfair that "gastroentero log" makes more than general surgery.
 
jw3600 said:
Doximity continues to put out garbage.
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Chibucks15 said:
It's too bad haha Wish those inflated numbers were true
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These aren't inflated at all. For the amount of docs on SDN, SDN always underestimates how much docs make. They go by what average salaries show on google for specialties which we all know to be underwhelming. Maybe there's a huge academic population here that doesn't understand PP salary, idk.

This is in line with MGMA data
 
LebronManning said:
These aren't inflated at all. For the amount of docs on SDN, SDN always underestimates how much docs make. They go by what average salaries show on google for specialties which we all know to be underwhelming. Maybe there's a huge academic population here that doesn't understand PP salary, idk.

This is in line with MGMA data
Click to expand...
I mean obviously PP is a lot different...but in many specialties, there is no such thing as PP...or at least its declining. So trying to get a number for a normal health system employee can be more difficult
 
W19 said:
What?
Click to expand...

GI Docs have the entire realm of medical therapy to go along with Colonoscopy and endoscopy. Also advanced endoscopy is developing more and more every day.

General surgeons can do hernias, choles, appys, and abscesses.

The value of either specialty is shown in its compensation.
 
Chibucks15 said:
I mean obviously PP is a lot different...but in many specialties, there is no such thing as PP...or at least its declining. So trying to get a number for a normal health system employee can be more difficult
Click to expand...

By PP I’m including everything other than academic. Working for a hospital on a production basis is often more profitable than true PP even as it had been in the past.
 
LebronManning said:
GI Docs have the entire realm of medical therapy to go along with Colonoscopy and endoscopy. Also advanced endoscopy is developing more and more every day.

General surgeons can do hernias, choles, appys, and abscesses.

The value of either specialty is shown in its compensation.
Click to expand...
....what point in training are you at?
 
He's very good at integral and differential calculus,
He knows the scientific names of being animalculous,
In short in matters vegetable, animal and mineral,
He is the very model of a modern surgeon general
 
LebronManning said:
GI Docs have the entire realm of medical therapy to go along with Colonoscopy and endoscopy. Also advanced endoscopy is developing more and more every day.

General surgeons can do hernias, choles, appys, and abscesses.

The value of either specialty is shown in its compensation.
Click to expand...
This is a silly statement.
jw3600 said:
....what point in training are you at?
Click to expand...
Judging by incorrect generalizations combined with a lack of knowledge of what each specialty can do, I'd say a pre-med.
 
NecFasc92 said:
These numbers (the average area, didn't look at regional or the other crap) are in line with what docs make who aren't academic, i.e. the vast majority. It's sad how little medical students are aware of their value (and these numbers undervalue us when you break it down economically, ergo admin literally steals money off of your hard work). Also, some of these numbers are actually low (I only looked at the small handful of fields im interested in).

Source: I have the 2017 mgma data.

And, no, I won't be giving it to you.
Click to expand...
That seems odd if you're saying med students aren't educated yet you won't share new facts with us. Is there something you gain by having the data?
 
NecFasc92 said:
Nothing odd about not doing something illegal.

Personal interest since I have debt out my ass?
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It's illegal to share MGMA data? I wasn't aware. I didn't mean to come off in a bad way you just said how we're uneducated then tell us you have more current data from the most reputable source and refuse to share it. We all have debt out our asses that's part of the deal
 
Does AMGA make the distinction between salary and compensation? If it does, these salaries will be a lot lower. However, these compensations fall in line with the salaries of a few docs that I know... So I hope compensation = salary for AMGA
 
Compensation = Salary + benefits (health insurance + malpractice insurance + paid time off/vacation + retirement/401k + disability).
 
I actually believe these numbers are more realistic than some of the other salaries quoted on here. After numerous salary discussions with both attendings and a physician recruiter that I personally know, I am beginning to believe that physician salaries are often under-reported. As to why, I have no idea, but perhaps physicians do not want the lay person knowing salaries of 3-500k are as common as they appear to be.

It seems to me that if you want to make a great deal of money in medicine, the opportunities are there in most specialties. Heck, there is a guy from my school that is as low on the totem poll as you can get on SDN - DO grad, community family medicine resident. Within 3 years of graduating he has started his own private practice in a small 2-room office, hired one person as a medical assistant, and has a patient roster of 600 people all paying a monthly fee + small appointment fee to be a part of his practice. Quick math tells me he's grossing just over 500k/year + appointment fees, and that's with him doing absolutely no up-selling on labs/meds/etc. There is a lot of room for entrepreneurship in medicine if you're willing to take a stab at it.
 
W19 said:
Does AMGA make the distinction between salary and compensation? If it does, these salaries will be a lot lower. However, these compensations fall in line with the salaries of a few docs that I know... So I hope compensation = salary for AMGA
Click to expand...
Typically MGMA, AMGA, etc include all total cash compensation, but not benefits.

So your Salary+Bonuses or just your take home pay over the year (whether that's RVU based, eat what you kill, salary, or whatever). So if I make $220,000 salary, plus a $10,000 bonus, and benefits worth $50,000, it would list my compensation as $230,000.

The doximity #s are inflated relative to any other survey I'm aware of (MGMA, AGMA, Sullivan Cotter, Medscape, etc), likely due to sample bias, but probably by not much more than 10% or so.
 
Actually according the MGMA website, retirement is included (and possibly other benefits?)

MGMA DataDive Provider Compensation Data

This is lifted from the site:

GET THE COMPLETE PICTURE OF COMPENSATION
Understand the unique differences among physician-owned, hospital-owned and academic practice benchmarks for a variety of regions, practice sizes and provider experience levels. Benchmarks include:
  • Compensation - Including total pay, bonus/incentives, retirement and more
  • Productivity - Work RVUs, total RVUs, professional collections and charges
  • Benefit Metrics - Hours worked per week/year and weeks of vacation
 
scootad. said:
Actually according the MGMA website, retirement is included (and possibly other benefits?)

MGMA DataDive Provider Compensation Data

This is lifted from the site:

GET THE COMPLETE PICTURE OF COMPENSATION
Understand the unique differences among physician-owned, hospital-owned and academic practice benchmarks for a variety of regions, practice sizes and provider experience levels. Benchmarks include:
  • Compensation - Including total pay, bonus/incentives, retirement and more
  • Productivity - Work RVUs, total RVUs, professional collections and charges
  • Benefit Metrics - Hours worked per week/year and weeks of vacation
Click to expand...
Retirement typically refers to things like 401k contributions, which are also cash compensation.
 
Money Moniker said:
I'm surprised and somewhat skeptical at the compensation listed for large metropolitan areas. It almost seems like the popular, desirable locations pay more than the crappier locales, and in fact more than the national average. San Diego, LA, Salt Lake City and Austin pay significantly better than Cleveland and Birmingham? You Wut Mate
Click to expand...

One possible theory is that large metropolitan areas like San Diego and LA have a higher proportion of clinicians in private practice, due to the size of the population relative to the number of academic institutions in the area allowing for multiple practices to thrive. Whereas, in a place like Cleveland or Birmingham, I would imagine that the local academic center (Cleveland Clinic, UAB) would be the dominant practice in town. As is commonly known, private practice tends to pay much better than academics.
 
LebronManning said:
GI Docs have the entire realm of medical therapy to go along with Colonoscopy and endoscopy. Also advanced endoscopy is developing more and more every day.

General surgeons can do hernias, choles, appys, and abscesses.

The value of either specialty is shown in its compensation.
Click to expand...

come on dude. this is just a lazy perspective. the two specialties operate on very different spectrums of disease.

Let me know when the gastroenterologists at your institution can take out a gallbladder, fix a perforated ulcer, or fix a strangulated hernia with their endoscopes.

Also Are you aware that general surgeons also do plenty of procedures utilizing EGD and colonoscopy?
 
qxrt said:
One possible theory is that large metropolitan areas like San Diego and LA have a higher proportion of clinicians in private practice, due to the size of the population relative to the number of academic institutions in the area allowing for multiple practices to thrive. Whereas, in a place like Cleveland or Birmingham, I would imagine that the local academic center (Cleveland Clinic, UAB) would be the dominant practice in town. As is commonly known, private practice tends to pay much better than academics.
Click to expand...
The easiest example is North Carolina. Charlotte by this survey has the highest pay in the country. Durham the second lowest.

Why? Well, Durham has Duke, which has a huge downward push on salaries in the city. Even if it is in North Carolina (and I've visited and *liked* NC)
 
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