DPM > MD a no go per the APMA

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Per an online podiatry journal the APMA voted down efforts to allow for DPM students to graduate with MD or DO degrees. For those favoring this movement the folks at the APMA have decided. I guess they- APMA honchos - like their jobs.

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Per an online podiatry journal the APMA voted down efforts to allow for DPM students to graduate with MD or DO degrees. For those favoring this movement the folks at the APMA have decided. I guess they- APMA honchos - like their jobs.

This has been an ongoing topic for many years. If you want to be an MD/DO why not go to that respective curriculum?

The folks at the APMA do a wonderful and important job for our profession.

Please link where you found this "online podiatry journal".
 
Today's PM News:

APMA Nixes MD/DO Referendum

Despite polls that have consistently shown that podiatrists are in favor of a degree change, APMA members will not be voting on a recently proposed referendum submitted to APMA by five APMA state components. The referendum, written by PM editor Barry Block, DPM, JD would have set a goal for APMA that future podiatrists would graduate with MD or DO degrees.

The APMA Bylaws committee ruled that the proposed referendum was contrary to APMA Bylaws, and that granting degrees was the providence of the Council on Podiatric Medicine and not APMA. Surveys conducted by Podiatry Management for the past two decades have consistently reported that nearly two out of three podiatrists favor a degree change.

Well that article is written with a hint of bias
 
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Yeah, please do explain. I wanted to become a DPM so I went to podiatry school. This is the real life, this is not fantasy.
 
Yeah, please do explain. I wanted to become a DPM so I went to podiatry school. This is the real life, this is not fantasy.

Are you serious? You guys really need an explanation? :eek:

People like us who went to podiatry school for a DPM are generally NOT the ones complaining about such a degree change.

Those who are complaining and want to be DO/MD, usually are the ones who CANNOT get into those programs (chose podiatry as a backup with stats like 3.3 GPA and 21 MCAT).

Telling someone, "why didnt you go DO/MD" is rather ignorant, its OBVIOUS these individuals cannot get into these programs with their GPA/MCAT.
 
First of all, I'm not sure if you can blame the APMA, since as per the article it's the CPME and not the APMA who makes those decisions.

Additionally, regardless of what the APMA or CPME decides, can either one unilaterally decide that the degree should be changed to MD or DO??? Aren't there criteria to be met prior to simply wanting a change?

Sure, it would be nice to have that coveted "MD" degree, but NONE of us went to an allopathic medical school. You can argue all you want about the quality of education, the quality of residency training, etc., but if you REALLY want/wanted an MD/DO degree you should have applied to allopathic or osteopathic medical school. You knew what you were getting when you entered.

IF you WERE an MD, how would you feel if the podiatric schools were suddenly handing out MD degrees????

Yes, I know all about our education and training, but we have never been MD's and we still aren't MD's. If you'd like that degree, go to allopathic medical school, land an orthopedic residency and then a foot/ankle fellowship. In the interim, be proud to have your DPM degree.

How would YOU feel if the chiropractors added courses in foot/ankle and decided to hand out DPM degrees?
 
Per an online podiatry journal the APMA voted down efforts to allow for DPM students to graduate with MD or DO degrees. For those favoring this movement the folks at the APMA have decided. I guess they- APMA honchos - like their jobs.

good, APMA is thinking on its feet.

Q.
What is the easiest way to make podiatry go away?

A.
give every DPM an MD and make all 9 pod schools allopathic medical schools. I will give it 20 years before before there is a better chance for the average chump of knowing latin than knowing what a podiatry ever was.
 
good, APMA is thinking on its feet.

Q.
What is the easiest way to make podiatry go away?

A.
give every DPM an MD and make all 9 pod schools allopathic medical schools. I will give it 20 years before before there is a better chance for the average chump of knowing latin than knowing what a podiatry ever was.


so you are forecasting a grim future for yourself? I don't get it.
 
He/she is making the point that if podiatry integrates with MD/DO, there will be no more podiatry.

His/her hypothesis is that is the reason why the APMA opposes the degree change.

Why did podiatry even arise in the first place? There was a need for specialists in the foot. Today, that same need exists. The point is that if you don't want to work with feet and the pathologic manifestions in the feet, then do not go to podiatry school.
 
Additionally, regardless of what the APMA or CPME decides, can either one unilaterally decide that the degree should be changed to MD or DO??? Aren't there criteria to be met prior to simply wanting a change?

Any change to granting MD or DO degrees would ultimately need to be approved by the accrediting associations for those schools, the AAMC or AOA. They would likely evaluate the curriculum, rotation sites, etc., same as they would for a new medical school starting from scratch.

I would agree with those saying that podiatry schools granting a MD or DO instead of a DPM would spell the death of podiatry. Sure, there would still be applicants interested in foot and ankle medicine, but the pool would be diluted since they could get the same degree from any of the approximately 200 medical schools. In addition, the former DPM schools would be deluged by thousands of applicants who have no particular interest in foot/ankle but are rather looking for any way to be a doctor.
 
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Telling someone, "why didnt you go DO/MD" is rather ignorant, its OBVIOUS these individuals cannot get into these programs with their GPA/MCAT.

Ignorant or not, the only way to attain an MD/DO is to go to those respective schools.

I also glean from your post that perhaps we should start to cater to those that aren't committed to the profession, as Podiatry was a fall back for them anyway. Am I understanding correctly?
 
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:thumbup:
Any change to granting MD or DO degrees would ultimately need to be approved by the accrediting associations for those schools, the AAMC or AOA. They would likely evaluate the curriculum, rotation sites, etc., same as they would for a new medical school starting from scratch.

I would agree with those saying that podiatry schools granting a MD or DO instead of a DPM would spell the death of podiatry. Sure, there would still be applicants interested in foot and ankle medicine, but the pool would be diluted since they could get the same degree from any of the approximately 200 medical schools. In addition, the former DPM schools would be deluged by thousands of applicants who have no particular interest in foot/ankle but are rather looking for any way to be a doctor.
 
Personally I think podiatrists would like a degree change simply because the public still doesn't have a good understanding of what a DPM does. Having the public constantly question you and having other medical professionals (MD, DO, PA, PT, nurses, etc) even question your legitimacy can get monotonous. Just because some pods do want the degree change doesn't necessarily mean they wanted to go to medical school. I grow tired of reading simple retorts "then why don't you go to medical school if you want a MD/DO degree". That doesn't really answer the reason why a significant amount of pods (who were polled by Dr. Block's survey) wanted the degree change. Can anyone really shed light on that?

I thought this was humorous and was obviously made by a disgruntled podiatrist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dAZ_YktUJg&feature=related

I personally think the reason no one knows about what a DPM does or is etc is because the APMA does a awful job marketing themselves.

I am a first year student right now and I did not even HEAR of podiatry until 2 years after I FINISHED undergrad and decided that a PhD was not for me.

The only reason I even heard of podiatry is because luckily my moms friend was a podiatrist and my mom introduced me to her.

I would probably say 99% of my graduating class undergraduate (I went to a big 30k person school) did not know what podiatry was. I got a Molec Bio degree. Everyone was either MD, DDS or PhD. Never heard of DPM and honestly didnt really hear of DO until after graduation either.
 
I personally think the reason no one knows about what a DPM does or is etc is because the APMA does a awful job marketing themselves.

I am a first year student right now and I did not even HEAR of podiatry until 2 years after I FINISHED undergrad and decided that a PhD was not for me.

The only reason I even heard of podiatry is because luckily my moms friend was a podiatrist and my mom introduced me to her.

I would probably say 99% of my graduating class undergraduate (I went to a big 30k person school) did not know what podiatry was. I got a Molec Bio degree. Everyone was either MD, DDS or PhD. Never heard of DPM and honestly didnt really hear of DO until after graduation either.

Me too I never knew what a podiatrist was until I looked at the other SDN subforums. Never knew it existed, neither did one of my parents. Maybe its cause we are Canadian (podiatry isnt that big here)

personally, I think it would be cool not to have a degree change, but implementation of dual degree program in the form of a fellowship or additional residency. Or more programs like Novas DO DPM program, although it wouldnt change much, your still a podiatrist (not like your going to be paid like an FA ortho) but I suppose it would help with marketability or "credibility" to potential patients. It would also sate the dying egos of disgruntled doctors of Podiatric Medicine so that would be good too as they can't blame podiatry anymore, just themselves.
 
Me too I never knew what a podiatrist was until I looked at the other SDN subforums. Never knew it existed, neither did one of my parents. Maybe its cause we are Canadian (podiatry isnt that big here)

personally, I think it would be cool not to have a degree change, but implementation of dual degree program in the form of a fellowship or additional residency. Or more programs like Novas DO DPM program, although it wouldnt change much, your still a podiatrist (not like your going to be paid like an FA ortho) but I suppose it would help with marketability or "credibility" to potential patients. It would also sate the dying egos of disgruntled doctors of Podiatric Medicine so that would be good too as they can't blame podiatry anymore, just themselves.

Not to mention, if you go to the "Todays Podiatrist" website there is this video:

http://www.todayspodiatrist.com/resources/videos/tomorrows-podiatrist-students-speak-out-part-1

Which I think is a awful way to persuade people to come into this profession. This TUSPM student essentially states:

The reason I want to do podiatry is not because I think it is a good career but because I want to do other things in my life with my career on the backburner.

If you want to persuade students into coming into the profession, show them surgical videos, videos of doctors who own huge practices, videos of patients happy in the office... not some dude who looks like he is doing podiatry so he can slack off.

If only I ran the marketing department at APMA.
 
Not to mention, if you go to the "Todays Podiatrist" website there is this video:

http://www.todayspodiatrist.com/resources/videos/tomorrows-podiatrist-students-speak-out-part-1

Which I think is a awful way to persuade people to come into this profession. This TUSPM student essentially states:

The reason I want to do podiatry is not because I think it is a good career but because I want to do other things in my life with my career on the backburner.

If you want to persuade students into coming into the profession, show them surgical videos, videos of doctors who own huge practices, videos of patients happy in the office... not some dude who looks like he is doing podiatry so he can slack off.

If only I ran the marketing department at APMA.

I didnt look at the site or watch the video,but if what you say is true then Ya marketing podiatry as a flexible career that allows you to do other things that you ACTUALLY love (eg. golfing, running, sex(jkjk)) isnt the greatest point. But I say give it time, eventually podiatry will be a household term :cool:. Especially since there is great standardized training among residents which allows holders of degrees of podiatric medicine to partake in interdisciplinary medicine with other specialties of osteopathic and allopathic medicine.
 
As I believe it was mentioned above, there isn't a point in having achieved dual degree status (DPM/MD - DPM/DO) unless you can do anything with the degrees that you can't accomplish with one alone.

Podiatry is a specialty, choosing to have an MD/DO degree IMO isn't beneficial since even if you were able to choose any type of residency with the MD/DO degree (such as ortho, gen surg, primary med, etc..) you would eventually have to choose one or the other.

IMHO it's an ego trip that Nova's using to make increasingly more money.

In regards to awareness, I believe it starts with us...simply said educating our friends, family members, and colleagues the best we can would help a great deal. Along with becoming involved with the APMA as well.
 
As I believe it was mentioned above, there isn't a point in having achieved dual degree status (DPM/MD - DPM/DO) unless you can do anything with the degrees that you can't accomplish with one alone.

Podiatry is a specialty, choosing to have an MD/DO degree IMO isn't beneficial since even if you were able to choose any type of residency with the MD/DO degree (such as ortho, gen surg, primary med, etc..) you would eventually have to choose one or the other.

IMHO it's an ego trip that Nova's using to make increasingly more money.

In regards to awareness, I believe it starts with us...simply said educating our friends, family members, and colleagues the best we can would help a great deal. Along with becoming involved with the APMA as well.

Ya I think most podiatrists just need to be comfortable in their own skin, and recognize that a DPM degree is a prestigious accomplishment as any other doctoral degree, PhD, DDS DMD, DO, MD.

getting a dual degree or change would be more for public relations, and marketing :)
 
This is the dumbest position that the APMA has ever taken! Who wouldn't want to convert the profession to an MD program? I don't know of a lot of people who wouldn't!
To change the title doesn't down play podiatry at all! All that it does is give us better recognition in the medical community! Unlike an MD/DO program, Podiatry is a specialty, not a broad/general description!
So why wouldn't we fully embrace this? Why would we want to hold on to old ways? I have not heard a good argument as to why a change would be bad, just a lot of "well maybe this would be bad!"
If we want to be better recognized as foot surgeons/experts we need to be able to fully be fully recognized in the medical community as Physicians! And the best way to do that is to change our title if not to MD then to MDP!
 
This is the dumbest position that the APMA has ever taken! Who wouldn't want to convert the profession to an MD program? I don't know of a lot of people who wouldn't!
To change the title doesn't down play podiatry at all! All that it does is give us better recognition in the medical community! Unlike an MD/DO program, Podiatry is a specialty, not a broad/general description!
So why wouldn't we fully embrace this? Why would we want to hold on to old ways? I have not heard a good argument as to why a change would be bad, just a lot of "well maybe this would be bad!"
If we want to be better recognized as foot surgeons/experts we need to be able to fully be fully recognized in the medical community as Physicians! And the best way to do that is to change our title if not to MD then to MDP!

A major benefit I see with changing to an MD would be our admissions standards will be at the level of the MD schools. Changing from DPM to a MDP would be pointless. People will still have no idea what we do and what a MDP stands for.
 
Do the people commenting on this topic realize that virtually none of them would be afforded the opportunity to become podiatrists if the degree was changed?

If you change the degree, podiatry school no longer exists. Podiatry simply becomes another specialty option for MD students.

On the bright side, all of the "what are my chances" threads on these forums would also cease to exist since nobody ever comes on asking about their 3.7 GPA and 30 MCAT...actually the podiatry forums would cease to exist as they would become pre-allopathic and allopathic student forums.
 
I fully agree with the "out sourcing" of podiatry to MD programs! Maybe my first post should have been more of "if not an MD then gain the status of an MD"

I don't know about anyone else on this post but I think we're pretty damn good at what we do!!!! We are a whole lot better then any Ortho Pod that I know of. And we need to help our community know and recognize our abilities. We need to stop the old status quo!

I didn't work this hard and this long to be taking crap from the rest of the medical community about our profession! What other program takes the extensive classes that we do..........oh yeah MD and DO programs! We are Physicians by every aspect of the word! And we need to help others realize our potential and our abilities!
 
I fully agree with the "out sourcing" of podiatry to MD programs! Maybe my first post should have been more of "if not an MD then gain the status of an MD"

I don't know about anyone else on this post but I think we're pretty damn good at what we do!!!! We are a whole lot better then any Ortho Pod that I know of. And we need to help our community know and recognize our abilities. We need to stop the old status quo!

I didn't work this hard and this long to be taking crap from the rest of the medical community about our profession! What other program takes the extensive classes that we do..........oh yeah MD and DO programs! We are Physicians by every aspect of the word! And we need to help others realize our potential and our abilities!

A word of caution, comments such as the above shows nothing but ignorance. There are plenty of noteworthy F/A orthopods, some of whom are directly involved in our residency training.
 
This is the dumbest position that the APMA has ever taken! Who wouldn't want to convert the profession to an MD program? I don't know of a lot of people who wouldn't!
To change the title doesn't down play podiatry at all! All that it does is give us better recognition in the medical community! Unlike an MD/DO program, Podiatry is a specialty, not a broad/general description!
So why wouldn't we fully embrace this? Why would we want to hold on to old ways? I have not heard a good argument as to why a change would be bad, just a lot of "well maybe this would be bad!"
If we want to be better recognized as foot surgeons/experts we need to be able to fully be fully recognized in the medical community as Physicians! And the best way to do that is to change our title if not to MD then to MDP!

http://www.startmedicine.com/app/medstatistics.asp?iPO=Y&iSO=AL

The majority of podiatry students would not have matriculated to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Period. To grant the MD/DO degree would mean that graduates would be free to pursue all subspecialties of medicine, and therefore admission criteria would be more in-line with those of Allo/Osteopathic medical schools. Podiatry residency would become absorbed by ortho/vascular/wound care residency programs and or would become a fellowship open to certain residency programs (a la Hand Surgery and Plastic surgery). Many current podiatrists would NOT have had the opportunity to do what they do.
Retroactively granting MD degrees to Podiatrists is very unlikely to happen, despite how much whining how unfair it is that podiatrists do the same coursework.
 
Skiz nailed it. That post really is the bottom line.

My 2 cents: You get respect (from MD's in this case) by earning it, not by changing initials behind your name.
 
http://www.startmedicine.com/app/medstatistics.asp?iPO=Y&iSO=AL

The majority of podiatry students would not have matriculated to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Period. To grant the MD/DO degree would mean that graduates would be free to pursue all subspecialties of medicine, and therefore admission criteria would be more in-line with those of Allo/Osteopathic medical schools. Podiatry residency would become absorbed by ortho/vascular/wound care residency programs and or would become a fellowship open to certain residency programs (a la Hand Surgery and Plastic surgery). Many current podiatrists would NOT have had the opportunity to do what they do.
Retroactively granting MD degrees to Podiatrists is very unlikely to happen, despite how much whining how unfair it is that podiatrists do the same coursework.

Careful. You need to be very specific here because there is a big chunk of foreign medical students that obtain residency here in the US from numerous Caribbean medical schools which do not even require the MCAT. Not everyone who has a MD at the end of their name had a 3.7 and a 30+ MCAT. (~4630 or over 21% FMG's obtained us residencies this past year).

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf
 
Careful. You need to be very specific here because there is a big chunk of foreign medical students that obtain residency here in the US from numerous Caribbean medical schools which do not even require the MCAT. Not everyone who has a MD at the end of their name had a 3.7 and a 30+ MCAT. (~4630 or over 21% FMG's obtained us residencies this past year).

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf

:thumbup:

Also, some of us may have had the stats to go the MD route but CHOSE to go into podiatry. Just saying.
 
Careful. You need to be very specific here because there is a big chunk of foreign medical students that obtain residency here in the US from numerous Caribbean medical schools which do not even require the MCAT. Not everyone who has a MD at the end of their name had a 3.7 and a 30+ MCAT. (~4630 or over 21% FMG's obtained us residencies this past year).

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf

Yes, but they all passed the Step 1, and all took an accredited allopathic curriculum, and all rotated through the core specialties in their third year. If you're talking about admission criteria, SGU has an average matriculant GPA of 3.4 and MCAT of 27. I personally have 3.63/36T.

While I agree that podiatrists should be able to specialize further up from the feet as their expertise grow, it would be a lot to grant the MD title to a physician that hasn't been exposed to the core specialties of medicine (for example, I think psychiatry and ob/gyn would be lacking in the podiatric curriculum).

I wouldn't see anything wrong with having a fast-track to an MD degree via something like the OMFS route for dentists... then the work has to be put in.

As for the title change thing, there are many, many Asian/Chinese FMGs who converted their MBBS to an MD after getting through residency.
 
A word of caution, comments such as the above shows nothing but ignorance. There are plenty of noteworthy F/A orthopods, some of whom are directly involved in our residency training.


Perfect example of how not to view our profession!

Your right, we should go down on our knees and thank those wonderful Othopods for throwing us a bone, and allowing us the opportunity to practice medicine!

NO! We are fully capable of establishing our selves as a sovereign entity among the medical community! We need to be doing more, and we are!!!

In order to do things that have never done before, you must do things that have never been done before!
 
A word of caution, comments such as the above shows nothing but ignorance. There are plenty of noteworthy F/A orthopods, some of whom are directly involved in our residency training.

http://www.startmedicine.com/app/medstatistics.asp?iPO=Y&iSO=AL

The majority of podiatry students would not have matriculated to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Period. To grant the MD/DO degree would mean that graduates would be free to pursue all subspecialties of medicine, and therefore admission criteria would be more in-line with those of Allo/Osteopathic medical schools. Podiatry residency would become absorbed by ortho/vascular/wound care residency programs and or would become a fellowship open to certain residency programs (a la Hand Surgery and Plastic surgery). Many current podiatrists would NOT have had the opportunity to do what they do.
Retroactively granting MD degrees to Podiatrists is very unlikely to happen, despite how much whining how unfair it is that podiatrists do the same coursework.


http://www.cmanet.org/news/detail/?article=californias-physicians-orthopaedic-surgeons0

Whether you like it or not, it's going to happen first in California and then will change throughout the nation! And YES they will help those who have already graduated obtain the same recognition!

I always thought health care was about our patients.................
 
Perfect example of how not to view our profession!

Your right, we should go down on our knees and thank those wonderful Othopods for throwing us a bone, and allowing us the opportunity to practice medicine!

NO! We are fully capable of establishing our selves as a sovereign entity among the medical community! We need to be doing more, and we are!!!

In order to do things that have never done before, you must do things that have never been done before!

Dude honestly in this post you sound about as intelligent as a child.

I am sure there are some fantastic orthopods out there... as I am sure there are some crappy ones.

Just as there are some fantastic pods out there... and there are also some crappy ones.

Respect other professions.
 
Yes, but they all passed the Step 1, and all took an accredited allopathic curriculum, and all rotated through the core specialties in their third year. If you're talking about admission criteria, SGU has an average matriculant GPA of 3.4 and MCAT of 27. I personally have 3.63/36T.

While I agree that podiatrists should be able to specialize further up from the feet as their expertise grow, it would be a lot to grant the MD title to a physician that hasn't been exposed to the core specialties of medicine (for example, I think psychiatry and ob/gyn would be lacking in the podiatric curriculum).

I wouldn't see anything wrong with having a fast-track to an MD degree via something like the OMFS route for dentists... then the work has to be put in.

As for the title change thing, there are many, many Asian/Chinese FMGs who converted their MBBS to an MD after getting through residency.

What prompted you to go the carrib route when your competitive for an american DO or MD

was it their scholarship for you
 
Yes, but they all passed the Step 1, and all took an accredited allopathic curriculum, and all rotated through the core specialties in their third year. If you're talking about admission criteria, SGU has an average matriculant GPA of 3.4 and MCAT of 27. I personally have 3.63/36T.

Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) only accredits US schools. Ross, SGU, Saba, AUC, and the rest of the Caribbean medical schools are NOT LCME accredited.
 
Hey does anyone even know the current status reached by the CMA CPMA and COA task force or is it still up in the air
 
Until recently, I thought having an MD degree behind our names was a good move for the profession. Since my original knee-jerk reaction, I have changed my mind. Here is why. We have a great profession which we should be proud of. We are a distinct specialty area that is unique, much like the dentists have their area of specialization. With our recent educational and residency upgrades, we have finally arrived and the answer is not to group us in with an MD degree where we could lose our uniqueness. Podiatry should do what the state of California is doing.

California is instituting, in the near future, a physicians and surgeons status for us which will give us an unlimited degree to do whatever we have been training for and does away with all the credentialing issues and turf battles. This strategic change allows us to keep our degree but now practice to whatever level we are competent at. The process will require changes in the curriculum at our podiatry schools so new graduates will be P&S certified and equivalent to their MD counterparts. A pathway for those already in practice to upgrade themselves to P&S status will be made available, thus solving those issues. This solves everyone’s problems and is a way to truly get parity but keep our uniqueness intact. America and the world needs DPMs. We have the potential to have unlimited growth in the short and long-term as our services are needed and growing every day with the aging population.

Ivar E. Roth DPM, MPH, Newport Beach, CA, [email protected]
 
Careful. You need to be very specific here because there is a big chunk of foreign medical students that obtain residency here in the US from numerous Caribbean medical schools which do not even require the MCAT. Not everyone who has a MD at the end of their name had a 3.7 and a 30+ MCAT. (~4630 or over 21% FMG's obtained us residencies this past year).

http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2010.pdf

It is true that a good portion of incoming residents were trained in other countries. Some were trained in the Caribbean and some in Western Europe; most however, were trained in India or China.

It is a very steep hill to get a residency in the US coming from a foreign medical school and they tend to get crappier slots. They do have to show basic competence by passing 3 board exams- USMLE 1, USMLE 2CK and USMLE 2CS to even be considered. Most need above average scores to have a good shot to match to a residency in the US. Obviously foreign schools do not require the MCAT but the MCAT is kinda a joke when compared to the depth and breadth of the USMLE.

Yes, but they all passed the Step 1, and all took an accredited allopathic curriculum, and all rotated through the core specialties in their third year. If you're talking about admission criteria, SGU has an average matriculant GPA of 3.4 and MCAT of 27. I personally have 3.63/36T.

While I agree that podiatrists should be able to specialize further up from the feet as their expertise grow, it would be a lot to grant the MD title to a physician that hasn't been exposed to the core specialties of medicine (for example, I think psychiatry and ob/gyn would be lacking in the podiatric curriculum).

First, why did you go to SGU with good stats?

Second, I think that granting the MD is a bad idea for a few major reasons:
1) First and foremost, if podiatry schools become full LCME accredited medical schools you will see the amount of people who go into podiatry plummet. There will be a shortage in the future especially with the growing diabetic population

2) Our foot/ankle training in medical school isn't great. Again, the exposure to the foot and ankle are limited so fewer people would go into podiatry if you take out the funnel from podiatry schools.


3) Finally, there would have to be major changes to the curriculum in podiatry schools especially with regard to rotations to be LCME accredited. Again, that will detract from the foot/ankle issues when you spend ~2 (often 3) months in Medicine, 1 month in FM, and 2-3 months in OB/GYN + Psych. This would either make the training longer or act as a detriment to pod training

In the end, I think switching degrees would be a huge detriment to podiatry as a profession and medicine as a whole.
 
It is true that a good portion of incoming residents were trained in other countries. Some were trained in the Caribbean and some in Western Europe; most however, were trained in India or China.

It is a very steep hill to get a residency in the US coming from a foreign medical school and they tend to get crappier slots. They do have to show basic competence by passing 3 board exams- USMLE 1, USMLE 2CK and USMLE 2CS to even be considered. Most need above average scores to have a good shot to match to a residency in the US. Obviously foreign schools do not require the MCAT but the MCAT is kinda a joke when compared to the depth and breadth of the USMLE.



First, why did you go to SGU with good stats?

Second, I think that granting the MD is a bad idea for a few major reasons:
1) First and foremost, if podiatry schools become full LCME accredited medical schools you will see the amount of people who go into podiatry plummet. There will be a shortage in the future especially with the growing diabetic population

2) Our foot/ankle training in medical school isn't great. Again, the exposure to the foot and ankle are limited so fewer people would go into podiatry if you take out the funnel from podiatry schools.


3) Finally, there would have to be major changes to the curriculum in podiatry schools especially with regard to rotations to be LCME accredited. Again, that will detract from the foot/ankle issues when you spend ~2 (often 3) months in Medicine, 1 month in FM, and 2-3 months in OB/GYN + Psych. This would either make the training longer or act as a detriment to pod training

In the end, I think switching degrees would be a huge detriment to podiatry as a profession and medicine as a whole.

Yes. :thumbup:
 
This same topic has come up multiple times in the world of Osteopathic Medicine. MD's want us to merge with them and become MD's ourselves. Still other's, DO's themselves, would have us change our degree title to MDO.

I think it's a terrible idea, for both us, and you and here's why.

DPM's (as far as I understand) have something better to offer patients with podiatric issues. You guys really know your stuff. MD orthopods are probably a little threatened by that, hence their desire to have you merge. The exact same thing happened to DO's in the mid 20th century. MD's had spent years bashing DO's, trying to undermine our profession wherever possible. Then they decided all of the sudden that we were good enough to merge with them. When that failed they went back to bashing, and we used their willingness to have us merge to demonstrate that even they didn't see a difference. That little excercise is what finally got us into the military. In California, where many DO's did merge with MD's, all it took was $60 for the new diploma. No extra training, or "un-DO-ing" necessary.

I'd take your differences, expand and improve on them, and make a name for your profession as elite foot and ankle specialists.
 
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This same topic has come up multiple times in the world of Osteopathic Medicine. MD's want us to merge with them and become MD's ourselves. Still other's, DO's themselves, would have us change our degree title to MDO.

I think it's a terrible idea, for both us, and you and here's why.

DPM's (as far as I understand) have something better to offer patients with podiatric issues. You guys really know your stuff. MD orthopods are probably a little threatened by that, hence their desire to have you merge. The exact same thing happened to DO's in the mid 20th century. MD's had spent years bashing DO's, trying to undermine our profession wherever possible. Then they decided all of the sudden that we were good enough to merge with them. When that failed they went back to bashing, and we used their willingness to have us merge to demonstrate that even they didn't see a difference. That little excercise is what finally got us into the military. In California, where many DO's did merge with MD's, all it took was $60 for the new diploma. No extra training, or "un-DO-ing" necessary.

I'd take your differences, expand and improve on them, and make a name for your profession as elite foot and ankle specialists.

this:thumbup:
 
This is the dumbest position that the APMA has ever taken! Who wouldn't want to convert the profession to an MD program? I don't know of a lot of people who wouldn't!
To change the title doesn't down play podiatry at all! All that it does is give us better recognition in the medical community! Unlike an MD/DO program, Podiatry is a specialty, not a broad/general description!
So why wouldn't we fully embrace this? Why would we want to hold on to old ways? I have not heard a good argument as to why a change would be bad, just a lot of "well maybe this would be bad!"
If we want to be better recognized as foot surgeons/experts we need to be able to fully be fully recognized in the medical community as Physicians! And the best way to do that is to change our title if not to MD then to MDP!

What's wrong with being called "Doctor of Podiatric Medicine"- that's what you do. If it's hubris you're after, that's a different story.

I mean, DOs (who are complete Medical Doctors), are called "Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine". MD's are technically also called "Doctors of Medicine"- their initials come from the Latin phrase Medicinae Doctor, not the English counterpart. That's just the way it worked out. It'd make more sense to see DOs called "MDOs" or even just plain old "MD" than it would to see DPMs called MDPs.

I think the arguments behind these topics aren't rooted in professionalism/care- they're rooted in the desire to attain a couple of worthless initials behind one's name.
 
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