DPM to DO?

[PodDude12345]

Prolly going to get flamed from 17 different angles over this topic, but I was wondering if anyone knows about a potential DPM to DO route? Current 3rd year student. Was once jaded by school/career outlook (yes, I know it is too early to be jaded compared to some of you guys are on here who have been in the game for awhile), however, I am now less jaded-ish. I said some stupid stuff in the past out of haste that I regret. I thoroughly enjoy the field of podiatry and enjoy about 95% of the aspects of it. That being said, I was wondering if there is any benefit to spending the extra money, time, and effort to obtain a DO or even an MD on top of a DPM. Guess I could justify it if it meant ~$80-$100k/yr in income (if thats even accurate). Not that it means anything, but I do well and am near the top of my class (guess it may only matter in terms of admission into another degree program?).

Just genuinely curious. I know it would be a lot of work, money, time, and effort. Even if there is a pathway, I am very unlikely to pursue it, because like I said, I enjoy the field of podiatry and want to make it my career (obviously). Spare me the lecturing about how I am an idiot for even considering it or bringing it up, I already know that. Any info or legitimate insight/advice is appreciated on the topic. Thanks all.

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[Retrograde_Nail]

Prolly going to get flamed from 17 different angles over this topic, but I was wondering if anyone knows about a potential DPM to DO route? Current 3rd year student. Was once jaded by school/career outlook (yes, I know it is too early to be jaded compared to some of you guys are on here who have been in the game for awhile), however, I am now less jaded-ish. I said some stupid stuff in the past out of haste that I regret. I thoroughly enjoy the field of podiatry and enjoy about 95% of the aspects of it. That being said, I was wondering if there is any benefit to spending the extra money, time, and effort to obtain a DO or even an MD on top of a DPM. Guess I could justify it if it meant ~$80-$100k/yr in income (if thats even accurate). Not that it means anything, but I do well and am near the top of my class (guess it may only matter in terms of admission into another degree program?).

Just genuinely curious. I know it would be a lot of work, money, time, and effort. Even if there is a pathway, I am very unlikely to pursue it, because like I said, I enjoy the field of podiatry and want to make it my career (obviously). Spare me the lecturing about how I am an idiot for even considering it or bringing it up, I already know that. Any info or legitimate insight/advice is appreciated on the topic. Thanks all.

You would need MCAT scores to get into a DO school and would have to start from the very beginning all over again. Nothing you did in podiatry school will transfer over. DO schools will also not care what your rank was in your podiatry class either. It's starting all over again. So it's easy to calculate the costs of 4 more years of school tuition, housing, etc. You are probably looking at 400-500K more in debt and there is no guarantee you will get into a surgical specialty in DO. Which means you spent all that time becoming a internal med doctor. Most busy podiatrists make way more than medicine, peds, neurology and anything not very attractive to most MD/DO students.

The issue is will you be one of those busy podiatrists working in a hospital or ortho group? Chances are probably 75% you will not be. We are graduating a ton of fellowship trained DPMs unnecessarily each year you will have to compete with. These fellowship trained DPMs have to compete with people like me who have spent their entire career working for hospitals and have hard productivity data, case logs, etc they can submit with their applications. Also I am board certified and 100% of residents and fellows graduating are not. So yea the job market is terrible.

Either way the odds do not look good either way.

 

[footshazam]

I’ll just say this, I browsed through your previous comments here. As a 3rd year student who recently learned a lot of negative things about podiatry, that I didn’t previously know, I would say that you should probably go with your first mind when it comes down to podiatry. Something made you begin to feel the way that you did and I don’t think you should ignore that. As far as DO school I would say give it a shot, rather that be with finishing DPM or not finishing. The fact that you’re asking for advice says you aren’t entirely comfortable with podiatry and that’s ok it’s nothing wrong with that. Sometimes as people we make career mistakes. I don’t think it’s the end of the world and it can make for an interesting storyline with admissions committees. Study for the MCAT again and apply. Nothing beats a failure but a try. What I would caution against is listening to sarcastic people on this site who really don’t mean you well. Gotta realize that most of the people on here are upset and envious of people who leave podiatry for better opportunities, they wish they had done the same but didn’t. Gotta be very careful who you listen to, that’s my advice in a nutshell. I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Have faith. Finish your degree and residency. You will be fine. Network, network, network when finished and you will get into a good situation.

Stay in contact with your classmates and residents and maintain good relationships. Word of mouth and referrals from them will get you a good gig. Being a dick and trying to find a good job through Indeed won't, regardless of how many fellowships you do.

Also working for a hospital, MSG, ortho group isn't a holy grail. A lot of my friends work for (not own) private practices and make much over the MGMA data that has been posted here recently.

All of us make more than the family practice docs I know.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I'm a DO. I wouldn't. I can't even imagine the compounding interest on your debt. Yeah, it's more or less guaranteed ~250k-300k, but it'll take you 7-8 additional years. That's a lot of time to land one of those high-paying podiatry gigs.

If you must switch, I would consider PA, Anesthesiology Assistant (these will take 1 additional year when you count a podiatry fellowship), or CRNA. At my hospital, CRNAs make ~240k/year working <40 hours a week, no calls, no weekends.

 

[AttackNME]

if you’re a hard worker, hungry, and humble guy, the money will come. Just make sure you like your job choice which seems like you might. Don’t think it’ll be greener on the other side, gamble on yourself and stay the course

 

[heybrother]

No one is meant to pursue multiple expensive lengthy graduate degrees. Complete the degree and then use the "jadedness" of the forum as a call to action to secure your future.

The forum says the job market is poor. PM News or whoever says it isn't.

Let's say you take our advice. You apply early. You apply over a diverse area. You work it like a job.

If you easily find a job - what did you lose by taking our advice? And if you find out the forum is right and the job market is terrible - when would you prefer to have learned that? Early when something could be done or as a 3rd year resident counting on a stellar opportunity from Dr. Block's job emporium?

 

[podwho]

i got friends who would drop mid residency to start all over again for md/do. If you can get in.... Which is probably why 95% are in podiatry. debt? literally not an issue with current student loan programs.

there is no way to be happy if you hate your job AND are not making enough money

 

[flyhi]

I’ll just say this, I browsed through your previous comments here. As a 3rd year student who recently learned a lot of negative things about podiatry, that I didn’t previously know, I would say that you should probably go with your first mind when it comes down to podiatry. Something made you begin to feel the way that you did and I don’t think you should ignore that. As far as DO school I would say give it a shot, rather that be with finishing DPM or not finishing. The fact that you’re asking for advice says you aren’t entirely comfortable with podiatry and that’s ok it’s nothing wrong with that. Sometimes as people we make career mistakes. I don’t think it’s the end of the world and it can make for an interesting storyline with admissions committees. Study for the MCAT again and apply. Nothing beats a failure but a try. What I would caution against is listening to sarcastic people on this site who really don’t mean you well. Gotta realize that most of the people on here are upset and envious of people who leave podiatry for better opportunities, they wish they had done the same but didn’t. Gotta be very careful who you listen to, that’s my advice in a nutshell. I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

Prolly going to get flamed from 17 different angles over this topic, but I was wondering if anyone knows about a potential DPM to DO route? Current 3rd year student. Was once jaded by school/career outlook (yes, I know it is too early to be jaded compared to some of you guys are on here who have been in the game for awhile), however, I am now less jaded-ish. I said some stupid stuff in the past out of haste that I regret. I thoroughly enjoy the field of podiatry and enjoy about 95% of the aspects of it. That being said, I was wondering if there is any benefit to spending the extra money, time, and effort to obtain a DO or even an MD on top of a DPM. Guess I could justify it if it meant ~$80-$100k/yr in income (if thats even accurate). Not that it means anything, but I do well and am near the top of my class (guess it may only matter in terms of admission into another degree program?).

Just genuinely curious. I know it would be a lot of work, money, time, and effort. Even if there is a pathway, I am very unlikely to pursue it, because like I said, I enjoy the field of podiatry and want to make it my career (obviously). Spare me the lecturing about how I am an idiot for even considering it or bringing it up, I already know that. Any info or legitimate insight/advice is appreciated on the topic. Thanks all.

I applied and got accepted to DO school at the same time I matched into residency. I ended up going to a horrible, toxic residency and leaving after 1.5 years. I went straight to PA school and can easily make 250k+ in my specialty (cardiothoracic surgery). Yes, I incurred more debt and lost time. But, I’m much more easily able to work at a non profit hospital for PSLF and have recruiters calling me every day for jobs. I do like podiatry, but love the flexibility of being a PA.

 

[heybrother]

I applied and got accepted to DO school at the same time I matched into residency. I ended up going to a horrible, toxic residency and leaving after 1.5 years. I went straight to PA school and can easily make 250k+ in my specialty (cardiothoracic surgery). Yes, I incurred more debt and lost time. But, I’m much more easily able to work at a non profit hospital for PSLF and have recruiters calling me every day for jobs. I do like podiatry, but love the flexibility of being a PA.

Wild story. If you are willing to share more I'm sure people would be fascinated to hear it.

 

[footshazam]

I applied and got accepted to DO school at the same time I matched into residency. I ended up going to a horrible, toxic residency and leaving after 1.5 years. I went straight to PA school and can easily make 250k+ in my specialty (cardiothoracic surgery). Yes, I incurred more debt and lost time. But, I’m much more easily able to work at a non profit hospital for PSLF and have recruiters calling me every day for jobs. I do like podiatry, but love the flexibility of being a PA.

Wow that’s really great news. So you were a podiatry resident and quit? Then applied to DO and PA and decided to do PA and not DO?

Also what made you quit podiatry residency?

 

[GreenHousePub]

Wow that’s really great news. So you were a podiatry resident and quit? Then applied to DO and PA and decided to do PA and not DO?

Also what made you quit podiatry residency?

Lack of common sense? How much debt is this person willing to take on

 

[footshazam]

Lack of common sense? How much debt is this person willing to take on

This is the type of comment that needs to lead to a person being banned. First off you insulted the poster. Plus it shows the amount of jealousy on this forum. People wake up and realize podiatry is a waste of 7 years and they decide they want more out of life it’s that simple and that’s what it sounds like happened with this poster. A lot of you people on here are so bitter and miserable that you stayed in podiatry that you will try and discourage other people from leaving by making comments like the one above. Misery loves company.

 

[Robin-jay]

This is the type of comment that needs to lead to a person being banned. First off you insulted the poster. Plus it shows the amount of jealousy on this forum. People wake up and realize podiatry is a waste of 7 years and they decide they want more out of life it’s that simple and that’s what it sounds like happened with this poster. A lot of you people on here are so bitter and miserable that you stayed in podiatry that you will try and discourage other people from leaving by making comments like the one above. Misery loves company.

You once thought because I said that most jobs aren't fun and sometimes you have to take the bad with the good in podiatry, that it means that I support the any and all practices associated with any faults in the profession.

You're extremely emotional on these forums, and erroneously make assumptions about people all too often.

All his point was that is debt is a serious consideration, and switching careers from podiatry into being a CRNA may not be the worth the time and effort. It's a fair stance, and some people may find staying a podiatrist better, or may find switching leading to a better life.

I've met residency directors making well over 500k a year, and know many residents who get a hospital job that's 250-300k first year out of residency. I also know many who go into private practice or fellowship after residency making substantially less while still working up the ladder.

At any rate, saying someone needs banned is extremely hypocritical coming from someone who has taken many peoples posts out of context, such as one of my previous posts, and treated it like trash by saying I supported any and all negative practices in the field and that I was championing lies, simply because I said podiatry isn't also suppose to be fun but can be worth it because most jobs have a lot of downsides.

 

[footshazam]

You once thought because I said that most jobs aren't fun and sometimes you have to take the bad with the good in podiatry, that it means that I support the any and all practices associated with any faults in the profession.

You're extremely emotional on these forums, and erroneously make assumptions about people all too often.

All his point was that is debt is a serious consideration, and switching careers from podiatry into being a CRNA may not be the worth the time and effort. It's a fair stance, and some people may find staying a podiatrist better, or may find switching leading to a better life.

I've met residency directors making well over 500k a year, and know many residents who get a hospital job that's 250-300k first year out of residency. I also know many who go into private practice or fellowship after residency making substantially less while still working up the ladder.

At any rate, saying someone needs banned is extremely hypocritical coming from someone who has taken many peoples posts out of context, such as one of my previous posts, and treated it like trash by saying I supported any and all negative practices in the field and that I was championing lies, simply because I said podiatry isn't also suppose to be fun and sometimes but can be worth it because most jobs have a lot of downsides.

Why are you even commenting when I wasn’t speaking about you? And furthermore the amount of debt a person is willing to take on is neither your or the other posters business! It is that person’s life and not yours. As you can see above another poster was interested in knowing their story just like I am. Like I said misery loves company. I’m pretty sure it’s no other job in the medical field that has a person rack up so much debt as in 300,000 to have such a garbage ROI where you are getting paid less than a PA when you get out with a doctoral degree . The more and more I see of podiatry as a student it made absolutely no sense to go to a 3 year surgical residency. It doesn’t take 3 years to learn the things that actually make money. So please pipe down with all the playing 2 sides of the coin. I’m not hearing it and a lot of other people aren’t either, hence the enrollment crisis. I rest my case and won’t be entertaining anymore of your post ever.

And it’s not me being emotional it’s me telling the truth. I’m a straight no chaser kind of person but a lot of you on here aren’t. I call things just like I see it, no playing both sides of the fence.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I wouldn't trust anyones replies here when their last post was in 2020. Look at a user's post history before believing in their replies.

Also, let's try to be civil here. Flaming is against the TOS.

 

[air bud]

Lack of common sense? How much debt is this person willing to take on

Who cares about the debt if PSLF....

 

[air bud]

This is the type of comment that needs to lead to a person being banned. First off you insulted the poster. Plus it shows the amount of jealousy on this forum. People wake up and realize podiatry is a waste of 7 years and they decide they want more out of life it’s that simple and that’s what it sounds like happened with this poster. A lot of you people on here are so bitter and miserable that you stayed in podiatry that you will try and discourage other people from leaving by making comments like the one above. Misery loves company.

Banned? Come on bro

 

[GreenHousePub]

This is the type of comment that needs to lead to a person being banned. First off you insulted the poster. Plus it shows the amount of jealousy on this forum. People wake up and realize podiatry is a waste of 7 years and they decide they want more out of life it’s that simple and that’s what it sounds like happened with this poster. A lot of you people on here are so bitter and miserable that you stayed in podiatry that you will try and discourage other people from leaving by making comments like the one above. Misery loves company.

I'm pretty satisfied with my profession, as are most of my friends, and we do much better than PAs.

If someone is commenting about how they are making a good decision by taking on loads more debt then I'm going to voice my opinion on why I think that's a bad idea.

Sounds like the only one miserable in this conversation is you. Which is understandable because you are still in school.

 

[air bud]

I'm pretty satisfied with my profession, as are most of my friends, and we do much better than PAs.

If someone is commenting about how they are making a good decision by taking on loads more debt then I'm going to voice my opinion on why I think that's a bad idea.

Sounds like the only one miserable in this conversation is you. Which is understandable because you are still in school.

Are you implying being out of school is not also miserable? Because might get some push back there....

 

[Adam Smasher]

If we were all truly miserable, things would be easier and change might actually happen in this profession. But until then...we need to open more schools!

 

[flyhi]

Lack of common sense? How much debt is this person willing to take on

You must be fun at parties

 

[flyhi]

I wouldn't trust anyones replies here when their last post was in 2020. Look at a user's post history before believing in their replies.

Also, let's try to be civil here. Flaming is against the TOS.

Wow that’s really great news. So you were a podiatry resident and quit? Then applied to DO and PA and decided to do PA and not DO?

Also what made you quit podiatry residency?

So I haven't been on here since 2020. Big deal. I don't troll SDN. I just come on every so often to check a post I started in another forum that has been in existence for probably 10 years now and has millions of responses.

Yes, I went to podiatry residency at a VA. The off rotations were amazing, the podiatry clinic (director, vice director and 3 other attendings) was a nightmare. It was bullying to the nth degree and turned me off from podiatry almost forever. I was very good at what I did and the proof was having two attendings (one podiatry and one IM) write me stellar LORs for PA school - got accepted and graduated from a top university program. I did not go DO because I decided I did not want to do 4 more years and then residency. I was trying to be fiscally responsible. With 2 years of PA school, I make more than most podiatrists and have the flexibility to move anywhere and practice in any specialty. Zero regrets

Oh and for Mr. Navy up there - I also did a year of vet school in Scotland before pod school. Paid cash. In the future, I wouldn't go presuming anyone's debt or income status - it shows a lack of intellect.

 

[flyhi]

I wouldn't trust anyones replies here when their last post was in 2020. Look at a user's post history before believing in their replies.

Also, let's try to be civil here. Flaming is against the TOS.

I'm surprised as an admin you would not believe my post just because I haven't been here in a few years. It's not like I just joined SDN, been here 15 years.

 

[heybrother]

So I haven't been on here since 2020. Big deal. I don't troll SDN. I just come on every so often to check a post I started in another forum that has been in existence for probably 10 years now and has millions of responses.

Yes, I went to podiatry residency at a VA. The off rotations were amazing, the podiatry clinic (director, vice director and 3 other attendings) was a nightmare. It was bullying to the nth degree and turned me off from podiatry almost forever. I was very good at what I did and the proof was having two attendings (one podiatry and one IM) write me stellar LORs for PA school - got accepted and graduated from a top university program. I did not go DO because I decided I did not want to do 4 more years and then residency. I was trying to be fiscally responsible. With 2 years of PA school, I make more than most podiatrists and have the flexibility to move anywhere and practice in any specialty. Zero regrets

Interesting. I think we graduated in the same year (2016). Your story is an interesting depicition of the sunk cost fallacy. If you know you are done with something (podiatry, whatever) - move on. Continued pursuit is just good money after bad. I've finally achieved a measure of financial satisfaction in podiatry, but I wouldn't want to see our income growth charted side by side. It wouldn't be flattering to podiatry. When PAs do well, they do really well.

 

[PTPuser]

So I haven't been on here since 2020. Big deal. I don't troll SDN. I just come on every so often to check a post I started in another forum that has been in existence for probably 10 years now and has millions of responses.

Yes, I went to podiatry residency at a VA. The off rotations were amazing, the podiatry clinic (director, vice director and 3 other attendings) was a nightmare. It was bullying to the nth degree and turned me off from podiatry almost forever. I was very good at what I did and the proof was having two attendings (one podiatry and one IM) write me stellar LORs for PA school - got accepted and graduated from a top university program. I did not go DO because I decided I did not want to do 4 more years and then residency. I was trying to be fiscally responsible. With 2 years of PA school, I make more than most podiatrists and have the flexibility to move anywhere and practice in any specialty. Zero regrets

Oh and for Mr. Navy up there - I also did a year of vet school in Scotland before pod school. Paid cash. In the future, I wouldn't go presuming anyone's debt or income status - it shows a lack of intellect.

Were you able to get federal loans for PA school after pod school? Sorry if it's too personal of a question. I'm interested in leaving also. But trying to figure out the financial process.

 

[flyhi]

Interesting. I think we graduated in the same year (2016). Your story is an interesting depicition of the sunk cost fallacy. If you know you are done with something (podiatry, whatever) - move on. Continued pursuit is just good money after bad. I've finally achieved a measure of financial satisfaction in podiatry, but I wouldn't want to see our income growth charted side by side. It wouldn't be flattering to podiatry. When PAs do well, they do really well.

We did indeed.. I remember you. I do hold a podiatry license and have been approached to do outpatient work but honestly, it just never made sense to do it. I am at the top of the food chain with what I do, and I still get to do lower extremity surgery almost every day - I do the endoscopic vein harvesting (greater saphenous usually) for our cardiac bypass surgeries. It's fulfilling. Nice to 'see' you again and glad you are experiencing success!

 

[flyhi]

We're you able to get federal loans for PA school after pod school? Sorry if it's too personal of a question. I'm interested in leaving also. But trying to figure out the financial process.

Yes I was. I hate to say it, but the Gov't is fine dishing out loans (at an absurd interest rate) because they know those of us in the health professions are the most likely to repay them. I will say the repayment programs continually get better. Even if you can't do PSLF (not easy with podiatry but very easy with any health profession you can be hospital employed), you can still do IBR. I would just recommend if you are leaving and going to have significant debt, choose your profession wisely. I will never have to worry about job security and if I chose to be a 'travel PA' could make 3 times what I am now. No joke. Feel free to DM me if you want. I know the struggle.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Are you considering any future doctorates as well?

 

[icebreaker32]

Those with no perspective outside of podiatry have no clue just how ridiculous our career path and job market are becoming. This PA story is just another example.

 

[DPMGuy]

For those of you who like podiatry… that’s great, but there’s no reason to mock people who change their situation because they dislike the job.

 

[icebreaker32]

For those of you who like podiatry… that’s great, but there’s no reason to mock people who change their situation because they dislike the job.

The sad part is it is all too common that many leaving the profession that do not dislike the specialty itself. It is one thing to say I thought I would like clinical medicine and I did not so I changed careers. You have podiatrists becoming PAs because of our poor residencies and poor job market. If you really think about that it speaks volumes.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

OP got an answer to their questions.

Closing!