DPM or PA

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MoneyDoctor

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I’ve been thinking about becoming a DPM or a PA. I’m going to be making a career change, and am not sure which will be a better match. I graduated in 2006 with a B.S. in business and have never taken any chemistry or physics, and have only taken bio courses that don’t count as pre-requisites for either DPM or PA programs. I’m 28 years old and have spent the past years working on a family business, and that didn’t work out as planned (don’t start a business with family members) I’ve always been interested in Medicine and enjoyed basic health courses. Two weeks after leaving my business that I had worked on for nine years I tried to start general chemistry and quit after two weeks only because I wanted to make sure it was what I wanted to do as I understood what a big undertaking becoming a DPM would be and wanted to make sure it was the right choice. So now, a year later, I have decided that a career in medicine would be right for me. I shadowed three Podiatrists and I was interested in the field, especially because I have an interest in hiking, running, and other sports. I have never been able to shadow a PA, but while shadowing the podiatrist’s they all asked me if I had looked into becoming a PA. My girlfriend is also a third year med student (M.D.) and has also mentioned that it may be a good choice as well.

I looked into PA programs and was wondering if they give preference to career changers as much as MD, DO, or DPM programs?

While going to college I also worked as a physical therapy tech, and was wondering if that would count towards the usual 2,000 hours of work experience for PA programs?

Having heard podiatrists tell me to think about becoming a PA was kind of disheartening, and has made me think that they may be unhappy or are just trying to give me sound advice, due to my age and lack of pre-requisites, so my question is it a better option financially, and career wise to go the PA route vs. the DPM route? (Please don’t take this as I am only after money) I truly feel I would be happy doing either, as I love to give people advice and to help out in areas of my expertise.

Do podiatrists have more career options than physician assistants?

Which has better job stability, or are they about the same?

Are they both equal in geographical job flexibility (ability to find work throughout the USA)?

Is the work schedule better for one than the other?

Another big factor in my choice is my girlfriend is going to try and get a residency in California if that does happen, I wanted to try and get into a school close by as we have been together for over 9 years and plan on getting married very soon. So my worries are that if I only apply to schools in California I may not get in, I am also worried that if I choose to become a DPM I may not get a residency in the same state where she maybe trying to start a practice or work at that time. I have a 3.0 GPA, never thought about going to grad school so I didn’t work as hard as I probably should have. If I only applied to Western and the California School of Podiatry program are my chances very bad for acceptance and the same goes for the PA programs-Loma Linda, Western, and USC? If I was married at that time would the schools take that into consideration (since she maybe finishing her residency)?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long background, just thought it might help.

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I’ve been thinking about becoming a DPM or a PA. I’m going to be making a career change, and am not sure which will be a better match. I graduated in 2006 with a B.S. in business and have never taken any chemistry or physics, and have only taken bio courses that don’t count as pre-requisites for either DPM or PA programs. I’m 28 years old and have spent the past years working on a family business, and that didn’t work out as planned (don’t start a business with family members) I’ve always been interested in Medicine and enjoyed basic health courses. Two weeks after leaving my business that I had worked on for nine years I tried to start general chemistry and quit after two weeks only because I wanted to make sure it was what I wanted to do as I understood what a big undertaking becoming a DPM would be and wanted to make sure it was the right choice. So now, a year later, I have decided that a career in medicine would be right for me. I shadowed three Podiatrists and I was interested in the field, especially because I have an interest in hiking, running, and other sports. I have never been able to shadow a PA, but while shadowing the podiatrist’s they all asked me if I had looked into becoming a PA. My girlfriend is also a third year med student (M.D.) and has also mentioned that it may be a good choice as well.

I looked into PA programs and was wondering if they give preference to career changers as much as MD, DO, or DPM programs?

While going to college I also worked as a physical therapy tech, and was wondering if that would count towards the usual 2,000 hours of work experience for PA programs?

Having heard podiatrists tell me to think about becoming a PA was kind of disheartening, and has made me think that they may be unhappy or are just trying to give me sound advice, due to my age and lack of pre-requisites, so my question is it a better option financially, and career wise to go the PA route vs. the DPM route? (Please don’t take this as I am only after money) I truly feel I would be happy doing either, as I love to give people advice and to help out in areas of my expertise.

Do podiatrists have more career options than physician assistants?

Which has better job stability, or are they about the same?

Are they both equal in geographical job flexibility (ability to find work throughout the USA)?

Is the work schedule better for one than the other?

Another big factor in my choice is my girlfriend is going to try and get a residency in California if that does happen, I wanted to try and get into a school close by as we have been together for over 9 years and plan on getting married very soon. So my worries are that if I only apply to schools in California I may not get in, I am also worried that if I choose to become a DPM I may not get a residency in the same state where she maybe trying to start a practice or work at that time. I have a 3.0 GPA, never thought about going to grad school so I didn’t work as hard as I probably should have. If I only applied to Western and the California School of Podiatry program are my chances very bad for acceptance and the same goes for the PA programs-Loma Linda, Western, and USC? If I was married at that time would the schools take that into consideration (since she maybe finishing her residency)?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the long background, just thought it might help.

If you don't have the pre-reqs and your bottom line career wise is having the best chance to stay in her geographic location, go PA. Podiatry is currently in a residency shortage starting this year. With a new school opening in CA, no guarantee that enough new residencies created to accommodate everyone, etc., I think PA would be the best choice.
 
Honestly mam the first thing you need to decide is what YOU want to do. The career of DPM vs a PA are vastly different.

I assume you know the major differences between the fields, choose which you want to do and then figure out how to make it happen.

The way I look at it, choose what will make you happy, you only live once.

I can't answer many of your questions about the admissions process for PA, but I can tell you with either DPM or PA, you are looking at quite a few pre req classes before you could consider applying.

Also, where you would do residency, etc are wayyyyy off in the future and certainly not something you can plan out right now.

I made a move toward medicine about 18 months ago, got an acceptance to my first choice DPM program and will start next fall. The best advice I recieved
early on was to make sure a career in medicine is what you really want before
you invest the time and money in applying.

Good luck!
 
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i would make sure you marry this chick and live off her money. Find something else that will make you happy that you can start doing sooner.


on a more serious note, you are looking at investing a lot of time either way. If you already have a degree you are looking at probably two years with summer classes to get all your pre-reqs done. You don't need to go beyond that. However, for PA school, they require many more undergrad classes up front, so that is probably another year or so.

but seriously....I would have had no problem being a homemaker if my wife made enough to support us.
 
I finished my undergrad in 2004. Worked for a while then went back to get the prereq's for DPM last year. Since I had English already, all I needed was the basic science classes. I took me one year to get them.

I don't know about the PA route, besides the fact that it is only 2 years after undergrad, but I'm glad I chose podiatry. Even though I'll be late 30s when I'm done my residency.

I'll echo the words of what other have said, figure out what you want to do, what you see yourself doing 20 years down the road, and do it.

If you do choose DPM (I would recommend it!!) and want to do stay in Cali, then a Cali school might be best for you. At least for Western, you'll need to bump that GPA up with the science prereqs, and get a good score on the MCAT.

I'm also at Western, and planning on staying in California for my residency. There will be a shortage of residencies when we graduate (30 - 40 are the estimates). I'm not worried about it one bit. Maybe if I planned on going somewhere far from California I might worry.

Western is expanding residencies in Southern California, and some are going to be specifically designed for Western students (Rancho Cucamonga residency has just changed names to Rancho Cucamonga WesternU). The faculty here are well aware of the shortage, so that is why they are doing this. They also know, and stay in close contact with, all the residency directors from all the California residencies. I have already met numerous residency directors.

Not sure about what the faculty at CSPM are doing for the residency problem so I can't comment on whether going there might help the chances of scoring a Cali residency or not.

If you do choose PA, maybe you can work for your girlfriend :D. Oh ya, you tried the family business thing!
 
I finished my undergrad in 2004. Worked for a while then went back to get the prereq's for DPM last year. Since I had English already, all I needed was the basic science classes. I took me one year to get them.

I don't know about the PA route, besides the fact that it is only 2 years after undergrad, but I'm glad I chose podiatry. Even though I'll be late 30s when I'm done my residency.

I'll echo the words of what other have said, figure out what you want to do, what you see yourself doing 20 years down the road, and do it.

If you do choose DPM (I would recommend it!!) and want to do stay in Cali, then a Cali school might be best for you. At least for Western, you'll need to bump that GPA up with the science prereqs, and get a good score on the MCAT.

I'm also at Western, and planning on staying in California for my residency. There will be a shortage of residencies when we graduate (30 - 40 are the estimates). I'm not worried about it one bit. Maybe if I planned on going somewhere far from California I might worry.

Western is expanding residencies in Southern California, and some are going to be specifically designed for Western students (Rancho Cucamonga residency has just changed names to Rancho Cucamonga WesternU). The faculty here are well aware of the shortage, so that is why they are doing this. They also know, and stay in close contact with, all the residency directors from all the California residencies. I have already met numerous residency directors.

Not sure about what the faculty at CSPM are doing for the residency problem so I can't comment on whether going there might help the chances of scoring a Cali residency or not.

If you do choose PA, maybe you can work for your girlfriend :D. Oh ya, you tried the family business thing!

Thank you:)
I'm glad you pointed out the shortage in residencies, but it's also nice to know that Western is trying to create a more spots locally to accomadate for the added students.

I thought about becoming a PA mainly because of time. The time I spent trying to start that business just felt like wasted time, as I never really made any money since we were in the process of starting up. Also because I have already lived apart from my girlfriend for the past two years and to me now the most important thing is to be close to her as we have done the long distance thing too much, 2 hour drive for her undergrad, then 4 hour flight for her Med school.

The Podiatrist I shadowed helped in the creation/planning of Western U's program, so hopefully that may help too.

The PA programs also seem to be more competitive than the Pod programs, and I personally am not sure it would bring me as much joy as being a Pod.

To AirBud- My girlfriend jokes about that all the time, "just be a stay at home dad". My friends say put a ring on that finger. Strangers say the same thing,lol!
 
The PA programs also seem to be more competitive than the Pod programs


IMO, choosing a career based on perceived ease of attainment is a pretty surefire way to end up unhappy.

Think about the specifics of what you want from your career, being PA and being a Pod are not similar.

Edit:

To clarify, there are huge differences between a medical doctorate and a midlevel degree like PA. One grants you the ability to practice individually and one requires oversight by a physician.

For me, the decision of PA vs MD/DO/DPM/DDS/DMD essentially boiled down to this distinction.
 
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IMO, choosing a career based on perceived ease of attainment is a pretty surefire way to end up unhappy.

Think about the specifics of what you want from your career, being PA and being a Pod are not similar.

Edit:

To clarify, there are huge differences between a medical doctorate and a midlevel degree like PA. One grants you the ability to practice individually and one requires oversight by a physician.

For me, the decision of PA vs MD/DO/DPM/DDS/DMD essentially boiled down to this distinction.


You're absolutely correct about the differences and having different duties and responsibilities. These are night and day, but it depends on what is important to you in life, and this is what has been pulling at me. To do something that may be less of a time sink or to do something that may be more of what I am looking for. I feel that both would offer me great job satisfaction and stability and I am just trying to see the difference's and if those in either feel they would be happy in either.

The one thing that worried me is the fact that every Podiatrist shadowed told me to look into becoming a PA, this made me think twice. It was disheartening to shadow someone, and here them tell you to look into something else. Whatever there reason, unhappiness, or there foresight into the profession, it made me think. Every ER doc that my girlfriend shadowed hated their lives, and said never to go into ER med so I thought this may be a similarity in this profession.

Becoming a Pod would be the harder of the two, maybe easier to get in judging by the limited statics I have seen, but a much longer road. It is up to me, and I believe that no one should ever take the easier road just to have something that is subpar.
 
From what you wrote you may want to consider nursing too.
About the pod and PA comments, the grass always seems greener on the other side. You have to really do some deep thinking here or else you'll write back in a few years on antidepressants wishing you had went into teaching. Ego is the biggest thing that seperates the field... in 10,20, 30 years will you be ok with still being a physician ASSISTANT?
 
You're absolutely correct about the differences and having different duties and responsibilities. These are night and day, but it depends on what is important to you in life, and this is what has been pulling at me. To do something that may be less of a time sink or to do something that may be more of what I am looking for. I feel that both would offer me great job satisfaction and stability and I am just trying to see the difference's and if those in either feel they would be happy in either.

The one thing that worried me is the fact that every Podiatrist shadowed told me to look into becoming a PA, this made me think twice. It was disheartening to shadow someone, and here them tell you to look into something else. Whatever there reason, unhappiness, or there foresight into the profession, it made me think. Every ER doc that my girlfriend shadowed hated their lives, and said never to go into ER med so I thought this may be a similarity in this profession.

Becoming a Pod would be the harder of the two, maybe easier to get in judging by the limited statics I have seen, but a much longer road. It is up to me, and I believe that no one should ever take the easier road just to have something that is subpar.

I was also deciding on PA, DO, or DPM.

At the end of the day, what the deal breaker for me was being able to be involved in the operation of my practice. Not that every PA is a slave to their doctor bosses with no input, and every doctor is empowered to make business decisions. But I think my chances to get what I wanted were higher with a DPM.

Don't be discouraged with doctors telling you to go into something else. I know MDs who have been practicing for a while and wish they had gone into nursing to become a NP and vice versa. It happens with every profession.

GL with your decision!
 
I'm not sure who you people are trying to fool, the deal breaker for a majority of pods choosing podiatry was their MCAT and/or GPA. As a matter of fact I'd say a majority of them find out about podiatry as an alternative after their scores are returned. Every applicant has to list all the MD/DO/Dental schools etc. they applied to..I'd say over 80% did apply to those programs and turned to Pod as a last resort. Not that it's a bad thing, but lets be honest; Podiatry has it's niche. Reasoning after the fact is great, make the best of what you got, but don't be dishonest about how you arrived at that conclusion.
 
I hate to say it but I think Brodiatrist is right (hopefully he doesn't invite me over to play gamecube and drink natty ice)...I feel like I happen to be an exception to the rule (did very well on tests, GPA, EC's, etc. prior to deciding podiatry), but most students go pod once they realize they can't get in to med school.

Although, from what I've seen in my interviews so far I think this is SLOWLY changing. Most of the students I've met have better stats than the averages you see at just about any DO program. I realize this is probably because I interviewed early and the kids who are on top of the application process tend to be the more motivated/qualified individuals. But it still doesn't stop me from believing that the applicant pool is growing in terms of size and quality, allowing schools like NYCPM, Ohio, Temple, etc. to be more selective in their admissions than in years past.

Getting back on track...ok, I have no idea where this thread was going before my post. My bad.
 
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PA is fairly short grad program and it's all fine and good as a career, but you're basically just functioning as a permanent junior resident (with slightly higher pay) in the sense that you'll always be working under attending docs... doing rounding/scut work on the hospital floors, seeing the easier clinic pts, or assisting in surgery rather than doing the "main" parts. PA, like pod, is not something you should go into if you have a chip on your shoulder.

They're both good careers IMO. Basic pro/cons are as follows IMO...
PA pros = done with school faster, can switch specialties / cons = relatively low income that levels/tops out, work under doc
DPM pros = can own practice, much higher income potential, make all tx decisions / cons = long school/training, can't switch specialties
 
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I hate to say it but I think Brodiatrist is right (hopefully he doesn't invite me over to play gamecube and drink natty ice)...I feel like I happen to be an exception to the rule (did very well on tests, GPA, EC's, etc. prior to deciding podiatry), but most students go pod once they realize they can't get in to med school.

Although, from what I've seen in my interviews so far I think this is SLOWLY changing. Most of the students I've met have better stats than the averages you see at just about any DO program. I realize this is probably because I interviewed early and the kids who are on top of the application process tend to be the more motivated/qualified individuals. But it still doesn't stop me from believing that the applicant pool is growing in terms of size and quality, allowing schools like NYCPM, Ohio, Temple, etc. to be more selective in their admissions than in years past.

Getting back on track...ok, I have no idea where this thread was going before my post. My bad.

I believe it is too. There are many in my class who had the GPA and MCAT to go DO and/or MD but choose podiatry. Once I found out about podiatry I actually went back to school to get the prereqs. I could have gone DO, but I never had the desire.

I think that we owe a lot to those in the profession and the APMA who have advocated for podiatry. It has come a long way, and will continue to gain respect. As such, the applicant pool will become more competitive.
 
I hate to say it but I think Brodiatrist is right (hopefully he doesn't invite me over to play gamecube and drink natty ice)...I feel like I happen to be an exception to the rule (did very well on tests, GPA, EC's, etc. prior to deciding podiatry), but most students go pod once they realize they can't get in to med school.

Although, from what I've seen in my interviews so far I think this is SLOWLY changing. Most of the students I've met have better stats than the averages you see at just about any DO program. I realize this is probably because I interviewed early and the kids who are on top of the application process tend to be the more motivated/qualified individuals. But it still doesn't stop me from believing that the applicant pool is growing in terms of size and quality, allowing schools like NYCPM, Ohio, Temple, etc. to be more selective in their admissions than in years past.

Getting back on track...ok, I have no idea where this thread was going before my post. My bad.
You must be kidding me...The average stats for matriculated DO students in 2009 were 3.5+ cGPA, 3.4+ sGPA and 26+ MCAT... Is there one pod school that has these stats? I have heard students getting into pod schools with both 2.8 cGPA and sGPA with 20 MCAT. Some schools still accept the DAT. I know getting in and getting out with a degree are two different stories. However, you will not find these stats even in the newer DO schools. In 2006 I believe there were about 763 pod applicants for about 650+ spots; that means an applicant has 85% chance of having an acceptance because they have to fill these spots... It is just simply supply and demand my friends...
http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/AppStats/Applicant_GPA.pdf
http://www.aacpm.org/html/statistics/PDFs/AppStats/Applicant_MCAT.pdf

For the record, podiatry is my plan B... I am pretty sure I wont have no problem getting in with my stats..3.2+ cGPA, 3.4+ sGPA and 27P MCAT.
 
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You must be kidding me...The average stats for matriculated DO students in 2009 were 3.5+ cGPA, 3.4+ sGPA and 26+ MCAT... Is there one pod school that has these stats? I have heard students getting into pod schools with both 2.8 cGPA and sGPA with 20 MCAT. Some schools still accept the DAT. I know getting in and getting out with a degree are two different stories. However, you will not find these stats even in the newer DO schools.
For the record, podiatry is my plan B... I am pretty sure I wont have no problem getting in with my stats..3.2+ cGPA, 3.4+ sGPA and 27P MCAT...

I think you are misunderstanding what dtrack meant. What he said was that most of students he has met on the interview trail have higher than 3.4/25...the average for DO. He was not saying that most students who get into podiatry have these stats.

Oh and a lot of students with 2.8/20 get into DO. Yes some DO schools have stellar stats...3.6/27...but there are also some in the other side of the spectrum. You will know which schools these are because they don't publish their average entering stats.
 
I think you are misunderstanding what dtrack meant. What he said was that most of students he has met on the interview trail have higher than 3.4/25...the average for DO. He was not saying that most students who get into podiatry have these stats.

Oh and a lot of students with 2.8/20 get into DO. Yes some DO schools have stellar stats...3.6/27...but there are also some in the other side of the spectrum. You will know which schools these are because they don't publish their average entering stats.
My bad... To be honest, I dont care one way or the other about stats. I just dont like when people misrepresent facts to make themselves look good... I hate when DO students are so deffensive about stats against their MD counterpart. I also hate when pod students do same thing against DO students. Stats will not make people become good healthcare providers if they dont care about what they do.
 
My bad... To be honest, I dont care one way or the other about stats. I just dont like when people misrepresent facts to make themselves look good... I hate when DO students are so deffensive about stats against their MD counterpart. I also hate when pod students do same thing against DO students. Stats will not make people become good healthcare providers if they dont care about what they do.

:thumbup: very true.
 
Afriend of mines cousin is interested in becoming a POD, I could only tell him so much because I am going to med school. I was scared to tell him about SDN because i know sometimes they can be harsh, competitive, and dream crushers. I would like to know is it hard to become a POD, and what is considered the top POD school?

Thanks and good luck to everyone we are all under a stressful process.
 
I would like to know is it hard to become a POD, and what is considered the top POD school?

Usually one of these a week, congrats.

All of the information "a friend of yours's cousin" could ever want to read on the questions you posed is available if "a friend of yours's cousin" would utilize the search function.
 
thanks alot....yes the POD SDN is like every other thread....BTW due to the internet most of these threads do not need to exsist because anything can be researched. I was asking for assistance on his behalf because he wanted my help, and since this was not my area I turned here. Thanks for your help. Have a good day.


Usually one of these a week, congrats.

All of the information "a friend of yours's cousin" could ever want to read on the questions you posed is available if "a friend of yours's cousin" would utilize the search function.
 
my point is the reason for SDN was to eliminate that:thumbup::thumbup:


Bottom line: your questions have been asked and answered here MANY times before.

All of the info you want is available in previous threads.
 
to play devils advocate here, the search doesnt always work since many of us (myself included) tend to get off topic on threads. Great discussions about things like 3rd year clinicals have been discussed in a thread that began asking what is a foot.
 
Also, there are as many prepods that enter these forums, post a million useless things, and then think they run the forums, telling people what they can and can't do. It takes less time to just answer the question. And if you couldn't tell, faith has 500 posts, so has probably navigated the forum before.

Its not that hard to get into school. School is still very hard, it is definitely not easy. Its still medical school. There are very good students at every school. Good schools in no order? NYCPM, Western, Arizona, DMU.
 
Thank you so much for the answer ...I have that many posts....the secret is out I am a groupie.:love::love:

I went to Barry for my Masters and I took classes with POD students, but I did not know much. All I could tell my friends cousin was that they are Dr's, and most do surgery, and it is 4 years. I know that he has to shadow a POD which we all have to do no matter what kind of Dr. we are going to be.





Also, there are as many prepods that enter these forums, post a million useless things, and then think they run the forums, telling people what they can and can't do. It takes less time to just answer the question. And if you couldn't tell, faith has 500 posts, so has probably navigated the forum before.

Its not that hard to get into school. School is still very hard, it is definitely not easy. Its still medical school. There are very good students at every school. Good schools in no order? NYCPM, Western, Arizona, DMU.
 
Afriend of mines cousin is interested in becoming a POD, I could only tell him so much because I am going to med school. I was scared to tell him about SDN because i know sometimes they can be harsh, competitive, and dream crushers. I would like to know is it hard to become a POD, and what is considered the top POD school?

Thanks and good luck to everyone we are all under a stressful process.

I've heard Scholl is the best, but I live in Chicago, so that could be why;)

I don't think it matters what is supposedly the best, it's going to be more how much you take out of it.
 
Thanks I know he would not leave MIA to go to Chicago but I will still pass on the info? Did you apply there already, or next year? is it a good idea for himm to apply to many schools his undergrad GPA is about 2.8 I told him to do Postbac because my personal opinion was that his GPA is not competitive...but again I am not sure

Another question are there many POD's that are minorities? Do they have a disadvantage section on the apps. like the AMCAS. Thanks



I've heard Scholl is the best, but I live in Chicago, so that could be why;)

I don't think it matters what is supposedly the best, it's going to be more how much you take out of it.
 
Thanks I know he would not leave MIA to go to Chicago but I will still pass on the info? Did you apply there already, or next year? is it a good idea for himm to apply to many schools his undergrad GPA is about 2.8 I told him to do Postbac because my personal opinion was that his GPA is not competitive...but again I am not sure

Another question are there many POD's that are minorities? Do they have a disadvantage section on the apps. like the AMCAS. Thanks

Doing the post-bacc would def give him more flexibility to apply everywhere since he could really prove himself academically during this 1-2 year program.

I don't think it is necessary because it seems like you are hinting he is a minority (based off your questions about the minority section of AACPMAS). There is def a minority section on the AACPMAS, by the way, where he can identify his exact ethnicity.

Affirmative action would most likely apply in this scenario as it does for allopathic and osteopathic admissions. Meaning, he would probably be able to gain acceptance to some Podiatry schools with a gpa under 3.0 because he is a minority.

I think his best shot is to apply to Barry since his home state is Florida and he is a minority. It doesn't hurt to apply broadly though, you never know until you apply.
 
Thanks again I think he could and should do a post bac to also ensure that he is prepared for the demanding education ALL dr's have to do. Yes I went to Barry and I was with the PODs, but there was a portion that just did it because they could not get into dental, or medical school that is another reason I came here to get advice from people that are doing for the love not as a back up. Thanks for the answers when he calls I will pass him the info. PS I should have added another reason I am helping him he is just graduating form college in dec. and he is really green. LOL



Doing the post-bacc would def give him more flexibility to apply everywhere since he could really prove himself academically during this 1-2 year program.

I don't think it is necessary because it seems like you are hinting he is a minority (based off your questions about the minority section of AACPMAS). There is def a minority section on the AACPMAS, by the way, where he can identify his exact ethnicity.

Affirmative action would most likely apply in this scenario as it does for allopathic and osteopathic admissions. Meaning, he would probably be able to gain acceptance to some Podiatry schools with a gpa under 3.0 because he is a minority.

I think his best shot is to apply to Barry since his home state is Florida and he is a minority. It doesn't hurt to apply broadly though, you never know until you apply.
 
Let me step in here for a second.

Affirmative action is allowing a minority into a position over other applicants when he/she has exactly the same qualifications as other applicants.

Taking a poor applicant based on race is not affirmative action, it's an injustice.

There are a lot of minorities in podiatry.
 
Let me step in here for a second.

Affirmative action is allowing a minority into a position over other applicants when he/she has exactly the same qualifications as other applicants.

Taking a poor applicant based on race is not affirmative action, it's an injustice.

There are a lot of minorities in podiatry.

Although your definition of affirmative action may be true, when it comes to medical school admissions, it allows minority students (who may have equal or less impressive stats compared to non-minority students) to get accepted to medical schools.

Affirmative action in medical school admissions requires that medical schools reserve a certain amount of seats for minority students. If the school receives applications from minority students who have the same stats as their usual average incoming classes then all the better...but if they don't then they are going to have to accept some of these minority students, with less impressive stats, because these reserved minority seats must be filled. There must be diversity...
 
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Pod training will definately be more difficult and much much longer.

It's much different than being a middle level provider.

Podiatrists are doctors and therefore are top of the chain when it comes to the foot and ankle.

You will be the expert in the foot and ankle and many times the lower leg.

As a PA you will not be the expert, you will be the permanent resident always making someone else money.
 
Pod training will definately be more difficult and much much longer.

It's much different than being a middle level provider.

Podiatrists are doctors and therefore are top of the chain when it comes to the foot and ankle.

You will be the expert in the foot and ankle and many times the lower leg.

As a PA you will not be the expert, you will be the permanent resident always making someone else money.
Ture, we did get to do an "ER rotation" during our 3rd year with PA's. It was an eye opening experience to say the least. I would never want to go into the PA field, although it may be for some people. It really seemed like a glorified nursing position to me.
 
Ture, we did get to do an "ER rotation" during our 3rd year with PA's. It was an eye opening experience to say the least. I would never want to go into the PA field, although it may be for some people. It really seemed like a glorified nursing position to me.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the assumption that a PA functions as a glorified nurse. I have worked as a PA in emergency medicine for over seven years and I don't recall my job ever seeming remotely like glorified nursing position.
Like my fellow PA's, I see my patients, develop a differential diagnosis, order any necessary treatment and testing, perform any procedures necessary (from lac repair and fracture reduction to intubation and central line placement), and come up with a final disposition. Our ED nurses are an invaluable part of patient care, but their job description is a quite different one from that of the PA's and MD's they work alongside.
As far as not wanting to go into the PA field, that is certainly your right. I have the highest respect for the DPM profession, but I know that I would have zero interest in making it my career. I also don't seem to be alone in thinking that being a PA is a great career choice.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/2009/index.html
http://www.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2009/08/28/americas-best-careers-2009.html
 
I got a buddy who's going to PA school in January. He wanted to have a career in medicine where he had lots of patient contact with minimal paper work (ie charting, billing, overhead vs revenue reports, etc.). Seems like a great field to be in if you like developing relationships with patients and being able to treat many different pathologies without a ton of responsibility.
 
I'm not sure how you arrived at the assumption that a PA functions as a glorified nurse. I have worked as a PA in emergency medicine for over seven years and I don't recall my job ever seeming remotely like glorified nursing position.
Like my fellow PA's, I see my patients, develop a differential diagnosis, order any necessary treatment and testing, perform any procedures necessary (from lac repair and fracture reduction to intubation and central line placement), and come up with a final disposition. Our ED nurses are an invaluable part of patient care, but their job description is a quite different one from that of the PA's and MD's they work alongside.
As far as not wanting to go into the PA field, that is certainly your right. I have the highest respect for the DPM profession, but I know that I would have zero interest in making it my career. I also don't seem to be alone in thinking that being a PA is a great career choice.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/2009/index.html
http://www.usnews.com/money/careers/articles/2009/08/28/americas-best-careers-2009.html

Yea, it was a bad choice of words. I agree it's probably a great career fit for some people, I'm just saying probably 90% of the patients I saw were people with toothaches, sore throats, STD swabs, etc. One person even rode in on an ambulance because they needed their dentures removed. That's all I meant. Don't get me wrong, people rag on podiatry all the time for chip and clip so to each his own...
 
Yea, it was a bad choice of words. I agree it's probably a great career fit for some people, I'm just saying probably 90% of the patients I saw were people with toothaches, sore throats, STD swabs, etc. One person even rode in on an ambulance because they needed their dentures removed. That's all I meant. Don't get me wrong, people rag on podiatry all the time for chip and clip so to each his own...

A lot of it is dependent on your practice setting. If the PA's in the ED only work in fast track/urgent care, then they may be seeing the type of patients you listed. Of course, these patients need quality care too, and by rapidly treating and streeting the less emergent cases the ED overall will function more efficiently.
Our ED (Academic Level 1 trauma center) also has a PA-run fast track, but the PA's also staff the main ED and the trauma room. On the other end of the spectrum, there are numerous rural critical access hospitals where the PA is the sole provider in the ED and manages every patient coming through the door, from the STD swabs to the cardiac arrests and STEMI's.
As far as the patient taking the ambulance for their denture removal, that is unfortunately a problem in any ED you work; I was a paramedic for several years before becoming a PA, and believe me, we have transported patients for much stupider reasons. Nothing like calling 911 for insomnia, or to come to the ED for a pregnancy test! :D
 
Pod training will definately be more difficult and much much longer.

It's much different than being a middle level provider.

Podiatrists are doctors and therefore are top of the chain when it comes to the foot and ankle.

You will be the expert in the foot and ankle and many times the lower leg.

As a PA you will not be the expert, you will be the permanent resident always making someone else money.

Posts like this are disheartening. How many times have people (mainly pre-health) from other areas of medicine posted negatively about podiatry with little to no actual knowledge about what they're talking about? Posts like that are the same thing in reverse.

People choose different career paths for a variety of reasons. I see no reason why there is a need to insult someone's choice simply because you feel as if you are higher up in some sort of self concocted success/knowledge ranking system. Everyone has different views of what success is. In the end if you're happy and live a fulfilled life what does it matter anyways?
 
I agree, as professionals why do we feel the need to put each other down? If you look at each thread there are always a few people that have to be rude. I always wanted to ask them why? Is your life that submissive you can only assert dominance on an forum that keeps your identity a secret?



Posts like this are disheartening. How many times have people (mainly pre-health) from other areas of medicine posted negatively about podiatry with little to no actual knowledge about what they're talking about? Posts like that are the same thing in reverse.

People choose different career paths for a variety of reasons. I see no reason why there is a need to insult someone's choice simply because you feel as if you are higher up in some sort of self concocted success/knowledge ranking system. Everyone has different views of what success is. In the end if you're happy and live a fulfilled life what does it matter anyways?
 
Posts like this are disheartening. How many times have people (mainly pre-health) from other areas of medicine posted negatively about podiatry with little to no actual knowledge about what they're talking about? Posts like that are the same thing in reverse.

People choose different career paths for a variety of reasons. I see no reason why there is a need to insult someone's choice simply because you feel as if you are higher up in some sort of self concocted success/knowledge ranking system. Everyone has different views of what success is. In the end if you're happy and live a fulfilled life what does it matter anyways?

Here's an article from our local newspaper about a woman who saw a half dozen MD's, including FP, Nephrology, Neurology, and Endocrinology. None of the MD's were able to make a diagnosis. Who was? That's right, a PA!

Once again it reinforces the idea that it's not the initials behind the name but the person in front of the initials that makes the most difference. From my contact with local PA's, they're a pretty sharp group of people.

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090924/NEWS0107/909240313


Diagnosis Odyssey


Finding out what's wrong can be a battle in itself

By Betsy Q. Cliff / The Bulletin

Published: September 24. 2009 4:00AM PST

It took more than a year — and nearly half a dozen doctors — to figure out why Ann Havelock's hands hurt.

Her pain began in fall 2007, when the then 67-year-old was helping her husband put a storm door on their Crooked River Ranch home. It wasn't cold out, she said, but her hands felt frigid. She brushed off the episode.
Soon, however, her hands started to ache so badly she couldn't ignore the pain. As a hair stylist in Bend, she worked all day, then came home and wrapped her hands in a hot pad. They hurt constantly.

“It got to the point where I hated to go anywhere, except go to work,” Havelock said. “I didn't want to go to church. It was just miserable driving, doing anything other than just crawling into myself and trying to retreat into sleep to get rid of the pain.”

Havelock first went to see her primary care doctor. When he couldn't figure out what was wrong, he referred her to another doctor, then another and another and another and another. Each time, leaving without answers, Havelock became more frustrated. The typically upbeat woman fell into depression. She cried, she said, nearly every morning.

Though her disease is uncommon, her ordeal is not. The diagnosis of disease is not an exact science and, especially when the disease is rare, it often takes several physicians to figure out what's wrong. People will live with pain or other symptoms for years, sometimes a decade or more, before they know what's wrong.

Even the best doctors can find diagnoses difficult. Symptoms of many diseases are vague or common to many illnesses. Many disorders do not have a test that can give sure answers. And, a patient may have something so rare that a doctor has not seen it since medical school, if at all.

There are no estimates of how often a patient leaves a doctor's office without a diagnosis, but both physicians and other experts say it happens often.

“Frequently, it's not like there's this clear entity” that can be easily diagnosed, said Dr. Michael Feldman, a nephrologist at Bend Memorial Clinic who saw Havelock. “It's very typical that you have this multi-system complaint and there have been a lot of negative tests and a lot of frustration along the way.”

The problem is particularly acute with rare disorders because, by definition, most doctors have less experience with them. In addition, physicians' training often teaches them to look for the likeliest explanation, said Stefanie Putkowski, a registered nurse at the National Organization for Rare Disorders.

“Medical students are taught when they hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras. And, from our perspective, sometimes they need to think zebras.”

Doctor to doctor

Havelock first saw her primary care physician, Dr. Alan Hilles, for her hand pain in March 2008.
Havelock's medical records from that visit suggest Hilles thought she had fractured or sprained her wrist; he ordered an X-ray of her wrist and over-the-counter pain medications.
Hilles could not be reached for comment.

The medications didn't help, Havelock said. She was back less than a month later and again a few weeks after that without a firm diagnosis. Hilles referred her to Feldman, according to medical records, for the pain in her hands and, because she had previously been a kidney donor, for possible complications of having just one kidney.

Feldman suspected complex regional pain syndrome, a chronic pain condition with an unknown cause. “She had this funny pain syndrome in her hands,” he said. “It fit nicely” with the pain syndrome diagnosis.
He put her on an antidepressant that is also prescribed for pain.
Havelock said that did not work. “After two months, I was so depressed and I was swollen so bad,” she said. “I weaned myself off the antidepressant, and I didn't go back to him.”

Someone suggested to her she try a neurologist. She did.
Medical records indicate Havelock first saw Dr. Craigan Griffin at NorthStar Neurology Clinic in Bend in July 2008. Her patient history notes a series of seemingly unrelated symptoms: burning sensation in her hands, a wrist injury with no evidence of fracture, possible complications of living with one kidney and perhaps even an allergy to ibuprofen. Her medical records suggest nothing stood out besides the pain.
That, doctors said, can make a diagnosis difficult.
“Medicine is pattern recognition,” said Feldman. Doctors look for groups of symptoms that suggest a disorder, then test to confirm or exclude specific diagnoses. Where there's no pattern, the diagnosis comes slower.
For the patient, that can be agonizing. “It's very, very stressful,” said Putkowski. “People in that time period (before a diagnosis) often can't work because they are so ill. It impacts people in every way possible.”
Griffin ran a series of tests, took a complete history and did a physical examination. He came up with possibilities but no diagnosis.
Havelock was growing frustrated. “By that time, I feel like I'm getting the runaround because here's three doctors so far and I'm not getting anywhere.”

Griffin concentrated on figuring out whether she had neuropathy, a nervous system disorder, but noted in his records another possibility: a skin disease called scleroderma. “I was just struck by the tightening of the skin in the hands and fingers.”
Medical records indicate that he suggested she see a rheumatologist, who would be able make a firm diagnosis of scleroderma.

A diagnosis

Havelock took a break from the physician merry-go-round that fall, and her medical records indicate she didn't see Hilles again until December. A few weeks later, at a follow-up visit, Hilles noted that she was “distraught” over not getting a diagnosis. He referred her to another doctor, an endocrinologist.

That visit did not result in a diagnosis or meaningful new findings.
“Every blood test came back normal,” Havelock said. “But at the same time, I knew it wasn't all in my head. ~ I may have had one symptom of this disease, two or three symptoms of that disease, but not enough symptoms of any one disease to fit.”

In March, she made another trip to another physician's office. This time she saw Tianna Welch, a physician assistant who specializes in rheumatology.
As soon as Welch saw her, she said, she knew what was wrong. “People with scleroderma just kind of have a certain appearance,” she said. “I suspected it pretty much right off the bat.”

On March 30 of this year, more than a year and a half after the beginning of her symptoms, Havelock finally had her diagnosis. She had scleroderma, a disease characterized by a hardening and tightening of the skin.
That tightening of the skin, which had grown worse and more visible since she first started seeking a diagnosis, was key to the diagnosis, said Welch. “You kind of lose the elasticity. It becomes harder,” she said. “When you pinch (normal) skin it molds and it moves around. This one, it doesn't want to do that as much. It's tight.”

Scleroderma is a rare disease in which the body produces too much collagen, the protein that gives skin structure and strength. As it did with Havelock, it often causes pain, swelling, tightening and even an exaggerated response to cold temperatures - known as Raynaud's phenomenon - that Havelock first experienced when installing the storm door.

There are two primary types of scleroderma: localized scleroderma, which just affects the skin, and systemic scleroderma, which can involve blood vessels and internal organs, including the lungs or kidneys. Havelock has the second type, often considered more serious, though individual cases vary widely.

There are about 300,000 people in the United States with scleroderma; about one-third of them have systemic scleroderma.
Havelock did not feel relief at having been given her diagnosis. “It hit me because the pain that I was going through and the swelling that I was going through for almost two years now, and I finally get an answer and it's not a good one. It's a bad one.”

She misread an information sheet she was given, thinking it indicated there was a good chance she would die soon. She crumpled, she said. “I just lost it.”

Living with scleroderma

Scleroderma can be particularly difficult to diagnose, said Dr. Greg Borstad, a rheumatologist at BMC who recently began seeing Havelock. The disease is rare, he said, and many of the symptoms are similar to other, more common disorders. A year or two to diagnosis “is almost average, unfortunately.”

There is no treatment for scleroderma. The only thing that can be done is alleviating symptoms. “You're sort of left treating whatever the complication is,” said Borstad.
For Havelock, that means several medications to control pain, swelling and blood pressure.

Havelock is stable now. But just after being diagnosed, she had an episode with her kidney, a complication of scleroderma, that put her in the hospital for several nights. She was heading toward kidney failure, said Feldman, who treated her during that episode, but she pulled out of it.
These days, she tries to look at the bright side. The tightening of her skin has taken away the fat on the underside of her arms. “I can wear a tank top without my upper arms waving,” she said, smiling.

Havelock also started a support group, which meets once a month at BMC, for patients with scleroderma. “I will do everything I can to bring awareness to the center for this disease,” she said.
At the group's first meeting in August, a half a dozen people, mostly scleroderma patients, showed up. “I felt alone,” Havelock said about when she was first diagnosed. “I wanted to share stories.”

At her direction, the women - the disease strikes women more often, and this group was all women - began talking about their experiences with the disease. The first, a La Pine woman, began with the frustration of going from doctor to doctor.
“The most frustrating part,” she said, “was really just getting the diagnosis.”


Betsy Q. Cliff can be reached at 541-383-0375 or [email protected].
 
thank you for posting the above.
I have had nothing but great interactions with the podiatry services I have worked with. at one of my per diem jobs there is a pod residency and I consult those guys instead of ortho on all foot/ankle issues. the residents are always really excited when I call with a lis franc for them....
 
So now the sensitive crowd here thinks that by calling a PA a midlevel career that is not the expert of anything is insulting the career?

I mean give me a break. It's the truth. If they were the experts at something they would not work under a physician.

And yes they are mid level providers which is a whole lot better than being a low level provider such as a nurse.

As far as people who insult podiatry, ask me if I care what they think?

I don't because they don't know crap about the foot and ankle and I do.
 
So now the sensitive crowd here thinks that by calling a PA a midlevel career that is not the expert of anything is insulting the career?

I mean give me a break. It's the truth. If they were the experts at something they would not work under a physician.

And yes they are mid level providers which is a whole lot better than being a low level provider such as a nurse.

As far as people who insult podiatry, ask me if I care what they think?

I don't because they don't know crap about the foot and ankle anyway and I do so their opinions are funny because the truth is, they are not among the super rich, the super famous or super successful.

Instead they work for a bunch of cry baby patients who treat them like they are a burger king employee anyway.

I mean, for example, I couldn't handle being an ER doc dealing daily with the lowest forms of human sludge that populate Americas ERs.... mooching off the medical system constantly. I have a hard time caring about their "emergent needs" of pregnancy tests and free drugs to get high.

I mean, being a MD, DO, DPM, DMD will not make you super rich. It will make you a middle class taxpayer supporting the ones using the ER constantly.
 
Wow there's been quite a few post, nice, negative, and some very helpful ones.

I'm still thinking about this, and thought I had made my mind up on Podiatry, but found out about PAs in the field of IR and now I am back to trying to figure out what is the best option for myself. For those that are PAs, how do you specialize? Going into IR would be great, but it's hard to find info on doing so as a PA.
 
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