DPT's calling themselves doctors and physicians...WHY?

[truthseeker]

I wonder if a 80 y.o. frail female patient falling could be detrimental? Me and another PT once had to excavate a patient trapped between a wall and her toilet prone after a fall (very small space), it took us about 5 minutes to get her out with about 20 people watching and she spent a couple days in the hospital. I don't remember seeing a neurosurgeon on scene, maybe we should've waited for a "doctor" to come.

Do you really think that a decent nursing assistant couldn't have done that? What would happen if the poor lady had fallen at 3 am?

I am not denigrating the DPT, I am one. Your sense of self-importance is remarkable. Is it your doctoral level education that allowed you to safely lift a woman from behind the toilet or was it your common sense and physical strength?

Geez.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Do you really think that a decent nursing assistant couldn't have done that? What would happen if the poor lady had fallen at 3 am?

I am not denigrating the DPT, I am one. Your sense of self-importance is remarkable. Is it your doctoral level education that allowed you to safely lift a woman from behind the toilet or was it your common sense and physical strength?

Geez.

No man, the lady was literally trapped! One person, including any PT would be a ***** if they would try to get a person out by themselves in that position. When I walked in the bathroom with everyone standing there, the super genius CNA had a towel wrapped around her and he was pulling on it deadlift style. What does that tell you about whether a nursing assistant could do the same thing?

PT's have slightly more training than nursing assistants in moving/lifting people and leverage not to mention its associations with disease and injury, it has to do with strength, common sense (which the CNA did not have), teamwork, patience, knowledge of role, etc.

If you have a tDPT, you do not have a DPT, you have a tDPT, there's a big difference (tDPT is not accredited - for a reason). It is about 3 thousand hours of schooling so don't try to compare 10 online "classes" that are nothing more than glorified online con ed to 3 years of onsite grad school. If this is the case, and you're actually passionate about PT, go and earn a postprofessional doctorate in PT and then we'll see if you have a better understanding.

And I feel like I have to write everything out for you so I'll add this. Don't waste anyone's time with the experience argument being relevant. Do you think an offer should be made for someone like myself doing some glorified online experience training and then claiming I have 10 more years of experience than I actually have? I don't....

 

[truthseeker]

No man, the lady was literally trapped! One person, including any PT would be a ***** if they would try to get a person out by themselves in that position. When I walked in the bathroom with everyone standing there, the super genius CNA had a towel wrapped around her and he was pulling on it deadlift style. What does that tell you about whether a nursing assistant could do the same thing?

PT's have slightly more training than nursing assistants in moving/lifting people and leverage not to mention its associations with disease and injury, it has to do with strength, common sense (which the CNA did not have), teamwork, patience, knowledge of role, etc.

If you have a tDPT, you do not have a DPT, you have a tDPT, there's a big difference (tDPT is not accredited - for a reason). It is about 3 thousand hours of schooling so don't try to compare 10 online "classes" that are nothing more than glorified online con ed to 3 years of onsite grad school. If this is the case, and you're actually passionate about PT, go and earn a postprofessional doctorate in PT and then we'll see if you have a better understanding.

And I feel like I have to write everything out for you so I'll add this. Don't waste anyone's time with the experience argument being relevant. Do you think an offer should be made for someone like myself doing some glorified online experience training and then claiming I have 10 more years of experience than I actually have? I don't....

Wow, someone is really trying to elevate themselves.

the difference between a tDPT and a DPT where I went is simply the classes that were not offered before the DPT existed as a degree. About 30 credit hours. The classes that were added did not add much meaningful information beyond what was in the masters program. I think there was a class on diversity, a business class, a motor control class, and a few other classes that had little to do with getting the lady up from the floor.

You seem to have little difficulty belittling others. I think it represents an inferiority complex. You elevate yourself by getting your degree and then trying to explain to everyone how your degree is superior. The truth is, the difference between the DPT, the tDPT, and frankly the MSPT or MPT is minimal. Other than a few classes, the difference is mainly the length of the clinical internships.

So, yes, I will play the experience card. Having 15 years of experience (including practice, con ed, and 15 years of reading the current literature) is more than enough to make up for the difference of maybe 12-18 weeks of additional clinical internship time.

So don't give me your line of crap. If you think that your ability to help a lady up from the floor, or the knowledge that someone having a hypotensive episode and knowing to lay them down earns you the title Dr. five0boy, then you aren't getting it.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Wow, someone is really trying to elevate themselves.

the difference between a tDPT and a DPT where I went is simply the classes that were not offered before the DPT existed as a degree. About 30 credit hours. The classes that were added did not add much meaningful information beyond what was in the masters program. I think there was a class on diversity, a business class, a motor control class, and a few other classes that had little to do with getting the lady up from the floor.

You seem to have little difficulty belittling others. I think it represents an inferiority complex. You elevate yourself by getting your degree and then trying to explain to everyone how your degree is superior. The truth is, the difference between the DPT, the tDPT, and frankly the MSPT or MPT is minimal. Other than a few classes, the difference is mainly the length of the clinical internships.

So, yes, I will play the experience card. Having 15 years of experience (including practice, con ed, and 15 years of reading the current literature) is more than enough to make up for the difference of maybe 12-18 weeks of additional clinical internship time.

So don't give me your line of crap. If you think that your ability to help a lady up from the floor, or the knowledge that someone having a hypotensive episode and knowing to lay them down earns you the title Dr. five0boy, then you aren't getting it.

I didn't imply that being able to help a lady "from the floor" makes me superior to any other PT. For clarification once again, she wasn't just on the floor. You stated in a previous post that PT's do not respond in emergencies, so I wanted to educate you with examples of how PT's do in fact respond in emergencies. If you do not think my example was an emergency than why did the paramedics and firemen show up?

If you really think a tDPT even approaches an accedited DPT you truly lack reasoning capability. Here's some info from my alma matter...

The tDPT that they offer costs $ 9,500 for the entire program which lasts one year.
Getting a legitimate DPT at the same school is about 22k/year x 3 years. Three times as long with probably 100x the coursework and 6 times as much money. But you think they are the same ay? Maybe you need to work on your objective reasoning skills. And entirely online vs almost exclusively onsite? Funny stuff man. I have over 300 credits combined between undergrad and grad school, from accredited universities, how many do you have genius?

I'm not trying to elevate anything, I'm telling it like it is. But I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth, truthseeker. I think it's good that you never introduce yourself as a doctor of anything, in any scenario, because you're not. Inferiority complex? What is that? Something you heard on a House, MD episode or at the bar with your mom and dad?

 

[atstudent]

If you do not think my example was an emergency than why did the paramedics and firemen show up?

Is getting a cat out of a tree an emergency, too?

 

[truthseeker]

I didn't imply that being able to help a lady "from the floor" makes me superior to any other PT. For clarification once again, she wasn't just on the floor. You stated in a previous post that PT's do not respond in emergencies, so I wanted to educate you with examples of how PT's do in fact respond in emergencies. If you do not think my example was an emergency than why did the paramedics and firemen show up?

atstudent has a good point. There are no PT emergencies. There are emergencies, yes, but none, IMO that PTs are uniquely qualified to handle. Yes we have expertise, yes we have a broad scope of practice, but the emergencies that you described are things that a good person would/should respond to, not necessarily a PT.

The tDPT that they offer costs $ 9,500 for the entire program which lasts one year.
Getting a legitimate DPT at the same school is about 22k/year x 3 years. Three times as long with probably 100x the coursework and 6 times as much money. But you think they are the same ay? Maybe you need to work on your objective reasoning skills. And entirely online vs almost exclusively onsite? Funny stuff man. I have over 300 credits combined between undergrad and grad school, from accredited universities, how many do you have genius?

The reason the cost is so much lower is because the person taking the tDPT classes have already taken two plus years of onsite graduate school. The cost for on-campus classes is higher because of lab space and other overhead such as printing etc . . . cost has no bearing on the quality of the education. Further, your ad hom arguement belies your poor position here. My objective reasoning skills are just fine thank you very much. I have no idea how many credits I have but I was in school for 4 years undergrad, one year between undergrad and PT school taking grad level biology and psych classes, then 2 1/2 years of PT school. Passed my athletic training test the first time, passed my PT boards the first time, worked for about 12 years, took tDPT credits from my alma mater which consisted of the classes that were added to their program to be able to confer the DPT degree to their students, all the while still working full time and managing a rehab department at a hospital. BTW, all of my credits are from accredited universities (I can't believe that you even implied that that was in question).

genius? not sure but maybe. don't need the title.

I'm not trying to elevate anything, I'm telling it like it is. But I'm sorry if you can't handle the truth, truthseeker. I think it's good that you never introduce yourself as a doctor of anything, in any scenario, because you're not. Inferiority complex? What is that? Something you heard on a House, MD episode or at the bar with your mom and dad?

Not sure what you are really saying here at all. You seem to be on an incoherent rant/tantrum. House? Really, that's the best you have?

An inferiority complex is when someone does not believe that they are worthy. Often presents itself by said person announcing how awesome they are, buying a corvette, having to have the biggest boat, etc . . . Sort of how you have presented yourself here and on many of your other posts in other threads. I see a trend here.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

atstudent has a good point. There are no PT emergencies. There are emergencies, yes, but none, IMO that PTs are uniquely qualified to handle. Yes we have expertise, yes we have a broad scope of practice, but the emergencies that you described are things that a good person would/should respond to, not necessarily a PT.





The reason the cost is so much lower is because the person taking the tDPT classes have already taken two plus years of onsite graduate school. The cost for on-campus classes is higher because of lab space and other overhead such as printing etc . . . cost has no bearing on the quality of the education. Further, your ad hom arguement belies your poor position here. My objective reasoning skills are just fine thank you very much. I have no idea how many credits I have but I was in school for 4 years undergrad, one year between undergrad and PT school taking grad level biology and psych classes, then 2 1/2 years of PT school. Passed my athletic training test the first time, passed my PT boards the first time, worked for about 12 years, took tDPT credits from my alma mater which consisted of the classes that were added to their program to be able to confer the DPT degree to their students, all the while still working full time and managing a rehab department at a hospital. BTW, all of my credits are from accredited universities (I can't believe that you even implied that that was in question).

genius? not sure but maybe. don't need the title.


Not sure what you are really saying here at all. You seem to be on an incoherent rant/tantrum. House? Really, that's the best you have?

An inferiority complex is when someone does not believe that they are worthy. Often presents itself by said person announcing how awesome they are, buying a corvette, having to have the biggest boat, etc . . . Sort of how you have presented yourself here and on many of your other posts in other threads. I see a trend here.

Ok, in your case it sounds like you legitimately earned your DPT.

Medical emergencies are certainly not within the scope of PT directly (when death or long term health sequelae are possible (i.e. MI, CVA, fracture) but we are needed and are trained to recognize an emergency that may be subtle and intervene in that case or when there is something even more emergent. I agree there are not necessarily emergencies speicific to the practice of PT, but PT's do encounter emergencies and have to act on them in the clinic or as a bystander. And it depends on definition of emergency, if it is transient, i.e. pt choking on food then YES that is within PT scope until someone else more qualified takes over, or other problems that are likely to be amenable to care a PT can provide it is as well. Isn't there an obligation for any healthcare provider to help someone in need of urgent medical attention?

For the record, I own a junky truck with no A/C (in arizona), and I bought a 25k townhome, no boat for me. I don't recall anouncing how awesome I am or even feeling that way. I was not aware of the correlation between posessions, feeling one is awesome and a "inferiority complex." I would tend to think of myself as stubborn, opinionated and argumentative as far as my posts on here go.

 

[myr11]

Has anyone in here not been in a neuro setting? Spend a few days in a brain injury setting and tell me that PTs are not INVOLVED in medical emergencies. Most medical emergencies arise from unstable vitals which is one of a PT's main responsibilities...Usually once you find the cause of a patient's distress it is not very hard to find a solution and implement it...I.E. patient is having a seizure, nurses inject some kepra or other anti seizure medication. PLEASE if you have not experienced all settings PTs work in, then you really should not make such assumptions...Ignorance is ignorance...and it is really sad to see even in the PT community how much ignorance exists...Anyway not trying to single anyone out but I hope people appreciate this

Ok, in your case that sounds legitimate.

Medical emergencies are certainly not within the scope of PT (when death or health sequelae are possible). I agree there are not necessarily emergencies speicific to the practice of PT, but PT's do encounter emergencies and have to act on them in the clinic or as a bystander. Isn't there an obligation for any healthcare provider to help someone in need of urgent medical attention?

For the record, I own a junky truck with no A/C (in arizona), and I bought a 25k townhome, no boat for me. I don't recall anouncing how awesome I am or even feeling that way. I was not aware of the correlation between posessions, feeling one is awesome and a "inferiority complex." I would tend to think of myself as stubborn, opinionated and argumentative as far as my posts on here go.

 

[truthseeker]

Has anyone in here not been in a neuro setting? Spend a few days in a brain injury setting and tell me that PTs are not INVOLVED in medical emergencies. Most medical emergencies arise from unstable vitals which is one of a PT's main responsibilities...Usually once you find the cause of a patient's distress it is not very hard to find a solution and implement it...I.E. patient is having a seizure, nurses inject some kepra or other anti seizure medication. PLEASE if you have not experienced all settings PTs work in, then you really should not make such assumptions...Ignorance is ignorance...and it is really sad to see even in the PT community how much ignorance exists...Anyway not trying to single anyone out but I hope people appreciate this

Would the nurse have been able to identify that the change in vitals was a seizure or did the identification of the seizure something that only a PT could do based upon their training?

I guess my point here is not that PTs don't respond to emergencies. I am not saying that we can't identify things, I know that we can.

I just don't think that we would be the professional to call if the person in distress had a choice.

I'm not trying to denigrate my own profession, I am just trying to cool everyone's jets who think that the skills and training that our doctorate confers is on par with the people that I call doctor and refer to as doctor as a measure of respect for their broader scope of practice. They may not be experts at what we are experts at but they do deal with potential life and death situations a lot more than we do. If we are involved, we usually need to call someone else to deal with it (see your example of the nurse giving the injection of kepra). We are an essential member of the team but by introducing ourselves as doctor X we are implying to the lay public that we have similar levels of training.

IMO the only thing similar is the word doctor, not what it implies to most people.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Patient's need to be informed better, that includes the fact that physician's aren't the only "doctors." I am in favor of more educated, informed, knowledgable and independent public/patient's. You are favoring stagnation, non progressive, status quo, and ignorant patients/public (how it is right now). Myself or anyone else who earned a DPT who defends their right to be called doctor, or at least not be denied that right or have it implied that they are not a doctor, is in no way saying they are a physician. Physical therapy is a separate and distinct profession that is worthy of doctoral level training. Just because history dictates the relationship between PT and physician does not mean they are the only "real doctor" regardless of the lay public's knowledge or perception.

PT's who call themselves doctor do not think they are "on par" with physician's, that doesn't even make sense to begin with as they are different professions and I have not come across a single PT in my career who graduated with a doctorate that behaves or implies otherwise. The "doctor" you are referring to is a doctor of medicine or osteopathy. The "doctor" I am referring to is one who has completed doctoral level training in any discipline. Patient perception is an entirely different thing than PT implication.

doctor (ˈdɒkt&#60 — n 1. a person licensed to practise medicine 2. a person who has been awarded a higher academic degree in any field of knowledge
Doctor does not equal physician, so perhaps you and everyone else should embrace the term physician with all due respect to them and other professions.

 

[truthseeker]

I agree that the public needs to be informed more, but that takes time, a lot of time, and some could argue that some aren't educable.

In hospital settings, when someone is called doctor, it implies a certain level of training. We do not have that training. Until the public is educated as to the differences in the education/training of doctors in different disciplines, the DPTs te PharmDs, the DCs should be referred to respectively as the physical therapist, the pharmacist, and the choirpractor -))

 

[facetguy]

I agree that the public needs to be informed more, but that takes time, a lot of time, and some could argue that some aren't educable.

In hospital settings, when someone is called doctor, it implies a certain level of training. We do not have that training. Until the public is educated as to the differences in the education/training of doctors in different disciplines, the DPTs te PharmDs, the DCs should be referred to respectively as the physical therapist, the pharmacist, and the choirpractor -))

Hey now...

 

[truthseeker]

sorry, just a tongue in cheek reference to the level of enlightenment of the general public.

 

[facetguy]

sorry, just a tongue in cheek reference to the level of enlightenment of the general public.

I know, just kidding.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

I agree that the public needs to be informed more, but that takes time, a lot of time, and some could argue that some aren't educable.

In hospital settings, when someone is called doctor, it implies a certain level of training. We do not have that training in medicine. Until the public is educated as to the differences in the education/training of doctors in different disciplines, the DPTs te PharmDs, the DCs should be referred to respectively as the physical therapist, the pharmacist, and the choirpractor -))

From your line of reasoning the only group that should call themselves doctor is neurosurgeons.

Each profession has minimum standards established by an accrediting agency for that particular profession. You cannot compare one profession vs another as it doesn't make sense to begin with.

 

[truthseeker]

From your line of reasoning the only group that should call themselves doctor is neurosurgeons.

How on earth do you conclude that?

Re-read my posts please. My overall point is that if I refer to myself as Dr. Truthseeker while working in a hospital, it is confusing to the 70 year old farmer that is here with his wife who just had a stroke. If I say I am Dr. Truthseeker, your physical therapist, they don't hear the physical therapist part. They hear doctor and it means one thing to them. That isn't a doctor of history, or physical therapy, it is of medicine. Someone who can discontinue their catheter, order meds, order an MRI or ultrasound, discharge them from the hospital, withhold thin liquids etc . . . Sure we and other providers often make recommendations to that effect, but we are making recommendations only. It is the attending physician who can pull the trigger and authorize it. Like it or not, that is the way it is now in my setting.

Each profession has minimum standards established by an accrediting agency for that particular profession. You cannot compare one profession vs another as it doesn't make sense to begin with.

Of course I realize that you can't compare but the farmer I mentioned above doesn't know the difference, all he knows is that the doctor said he could walk about the room without someone with him. Was it the MD (who probably shouldn't make that call) or the DPT who should? If you asked him what he thought the difference in training was between a DPT, MD, DO, DC, PharmD, DNP, PhD, PsyD, OD, etc . . . he most likely wouldn't have a clue. Heck I ask some of my patients when they say they went to the eye doctor if they were an ophthamologist or an optometrist and they don't know the difference.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

How on earth do you conclude that?

Re-read my posts please. My overall point is that if I refer to myself as Dr. Truthseeker while working in a hospital, it is confusing to the 70 year old farmer that is here with his wife who just had a stroke. If I say I am Dr. Truthseeker, your physical therapist, they don't hear the physical therapist part. They hear doctor and it means one thing to them. That isn't a doctor of history, or physical therapy, it is of medicine. Someone who can discontinue their catheter, order meds, order an MRI or ultrasound, discharge them from the hospital, withhold thin liquids etc . . . Sure we and other providers often make recommendations to that effect, but we are making recommendations only. It is the attending physician who can pull the trigger and authorize it. Like it or not, that is the way it is now in my setting.


Of course I realize that you can't compare but the farmer I mentioned above doesn't know the difference, all he knows is that the doctor said he could walk about the room without someone with him. Was it the MD (who probably shouldn't make that call) or the DPT who should? If you asked him what he thought the difference in training was between a DPT, MD, DO, DC, PharmD, DNP, PhD, PsyD, OD, etc . . . he most likely wouldn't have a clue. Heck I ask some of my patients when they say they went to the eye doctor if they were an ophthamologist or an optometrist and they don't know the difference.

In a hospital setting I think there should probably be regulation in terms of titles, patient's are in hospitals because they are medically unstable, and physician's specialize in that area. I agree that one should be careful what to say to a cognitively impaired or generally medically unstable patient. At the same time there needs to be more professional respect between and within disciplines. And, the PT should have full control and final say with regard to PT regardless of any factors.

IMO, if a patient who is "with it" says to you "you're the doctor" with reference to whatever in physical therapy, I think it is garbage and an insult to our profession to say that you're not a real doctor because real doctors save lives. As far as I am concerned the only doctor with regard to physical therapy is a DPT. BUT, I think it is a bad idea for us to begin calling ourselves doctor every two seconds and rely moreso on the efficacy of our interventions to impress people.

It doesn't matter what the difference in training is between professions, irrelevant.

I'm glad some of us got our thoughts out for other people to see...

 

[Floryandc]

I think this is mostly the evidence based chiros that call themselves chiropractic physicians to differ from the crazy subluxation based chiros who are scam artists. In most states chiros are considered PCP's, and in New Mexico chiropractors can prescribe medication, a limited list of medications though.

 

[jchen707]

In a hospital setting I think there should probably be regulation in terms of titles, patient's are in hospitals because they are medically unstable, and physician's specialize in that area. I agree that one should be careful what to say to a cognitively impaired or generally medically unstable patient. At the same time there needs to be more professional respect between and within disciplines. And, the PT should have full control and final say with regard to PT regardless of any factors.

IMO, if a patient who is "with it" says to you "you're the doctor" with reference to whatever in physical therapy, I think it is garbage and an insult to our profession to say that you're not a real doctor because real doctors save lives. As far as I am concerned the only doctor with regard to physical therapy is a DPT. BUT, I think it is a bad idea for us to begin calling ourselves doctor every two seconds and rely moreso on the efficacy of our interventions to impress people.

It doesn't matter what the difference in training is between professions, irrelevant.

I'm glad some of us got our thoughts out for other people to see...

Just to be clear, patients aren't always only in the hospital because they are medically unstable. someone who is post surgery for a torn ligament isn't exactly "medically unstable". A lot of patients in hospitals need PT so that their condition or situation doesn't get worse. Sometimes PTs are needed because of the condition. Anyway, I think that since we are receiving a DPT title, we should be able to call ourselves doctors. Honestly, i think the whole debate is stupid and many medical doctors just want to stroke their own ego and have "rights" to being called doctors. It's been stated before, Ph.Ds are also doctors. In fact I've met plenty of Ph. Ds who state that people need to refer to them as Dr. so and so. This entire debate is kind of childish, but I can see where the point is, since there is also a movement to push the nursing degree to a doctorate degree... then it would get really confusing, and medical doctors can't have nurses going around calling themselves doctors too

 

[jchen707]

Also, just to point out, we are not physicians. Physicians imply DO, MD etc... however, putting doctor in front of your name does not. Ph. Ds of English are called doctors (not to put down english degrees, but my point is that they are not related to the healthcare field). But we are Doctors of Physical Therapy

 

[jgold72288]

I think the crux of the argument is that the term "doctor" generally implies that one is at the top of one's field and has received extensive training to get there. PhDs generally take 4-5 years of extensive work, including a completely original thesis tested and defended against others at the very top of the field. Physicians attend four years of generally more rigorous coursework followed by another 4+ years of working their way up in residencies. In comparison, PT's preparation seems not as extensive (though obviously still grueling) given that roughly two years are in the classroom and one year is in clinical rotations.

Another way to look at the term "doctor" is "top of one's field". I think generally PTs view that field as "physical rehabilitation" whereas the public tends to define that field as "health care". But even within the realm of physical rehabilitation, as extensive and exhaustive as the DPT's role is, would an orthopaedic specialist MD or neurologist or whatever not have the final say in a patient's treatment, ultimately superseding even our own? That's actually a question, by the way; it's always been my belief that this was the case but I could be wrong.

I'm not trying to denigrate the profession of physical therapy; hell, I'm spending 81k and three years of my life trying to break into the field myself. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. Ultimately to me, with regards to training and prestige, many doctoral degrees in addition to PT seem to be a tier below physicians and phDs, above a Master's but not quite up to the same qualifications that the term "doctor" was traditionally associated with. And that's OK, doesn't devalue a person's worth as a professional as many here seem to believe that stance implies. Just my two cents.

 

[s402651]

How on earth do you conclude that?

Re-read my posts please. My overall point is that if I refer to myself as Dr. Truthseeker while working in a hospital, it is confusing to the 70 year old farmer that is here with his wife who just had a stroke. If I say I am Dr. Truthseeker, your physical therapist, they don't hear the physical therapist part. They hear doctor and it means one thing to them. That isn't a doctor of history, or physical therapy, it is of medicine. Someone who can discontinue their catheter, order meds, order an MRI or ultrasound, discharge them from the hospital, withhold thin liquids etc . . . Sure we and other providers often make recommendations to that effect, but we are making recommendations only. It is the attending physician who can pull the trigger and authorize it. Like it or not, that is the way it is now in my setting.


Of course I realize that you can't compare but the farmer I mentioned above doesn't know the difference, all he knows is that the doctor said he could walk about the room without someone with him. Was it the MD (who probably shouldn't make that call) or the DPT who should? If you asked him what he thought the difference in training was between a DPT, MD, DO, DC, PharmD, DNP, PhD, PsyD, OD, etc . . . he most likely wouldn't have a clue. Heck I ask some of my patients when they say they went to the eye doctor if they were an ophthamologist or an optometrist and they don't know the difference.

By calling yourself Dr. and then stating that you are their physical therapist does not mean they are thinking one thing. That is a stigma given to the word doctor. Yes, it is true that in more traditional healthcare there were only medical doctors. However, we do not live in the past, we are in the present. If it is confusing to so many of our predecessors in the field, then they need to accept change. That is my two cents and please do not reply with senseless banter.

 

[Member012345678]

"Can someone who earned a doctorate degree in Field X be referred to as 'doctor'"

I have seen this question all over the internet and on forums. People have all kinds of ideas about this; some of them are spot-on, some are arrogant and ill-informed. The answer to this question isn't that complicated.

If you've earned a doctorate degree, whether that is a MD/DO, PhD (in any field), CScD, EdD, DPT, DC, JD, DDS, AuD, DD, PharmD, PsyD, SLPD, OTD, DNP, ClinSciD, etc., you have earned the right to be referred to as 'Dr. Bennifer Honeypants' (or whatever your name is); if you finished a doctoral degree from a regionally accredited university (this is for the U.S.; not sure how accreditation at universities works in other countries) , you can legitimately and honestly carry the title 'Dr.'

The problem is not with the title 'Dr'...the problem is with people using it inappropriately and/or to mislead. It is unethical for a DPT or AuD(or any non-MD/DO doctor) to enter a patient's hospital room and pretend to be a physician. This works the other way, however; it just as unethical for a MD/DO to enter a physical rehabilitation clinic and let patients believe they are a DPT, or for an MD/DO to enter the physics department at a university and pretend to be a professor of physics.

If an employee at a hospital, with an earned doctorate that is related to the field in which they are working at that hospital, enters a patient's room it is ethical to clarify what field at that hospital they work in (which serves to let the patient know their area of expertise). For instance, the speech-language pathologist with a clinical doctoral degree (SLPD or CScD) at a hospital should introduce themselves to the patient like so: "Hello, I'm Dr. Bennifer Honeypants. I'm your speech-language pathologist today." The DPT with a clinical doctoral degree at a hospital should introduce themselves to the patient like so: "Hello, I'm Dr. Bennifer Honeypants. I'm your physical therapist today." If there is any indication that the patient thinks you are a medical doctor (either through asking you outright or through asking questions that are outside you area of expertise), it is that person's duty to tell the patient, "That's a good question. However, I am not a medical doctor. That would be a great question to ask her/him when you see her/him."). This action absolutely applies to MDs/DOs as well; when seeing a patient at a hospital, the MD/DO should introduce themselves to the patient like so: "Hello, I'm Dr. Bennifer Honeypants. I am your physician today," or "Hello, I'm Dr. Bennifer Honeypants. I am your oncologist." Likewise, if a MD/DO is giving a lecture in a biology department to a class full of PhD candidates, they should tell the room, "Hello. I'm Dr. Honeypants. I am a medical doctor." If you have earned a legitimate doctorate degree from a legitimate university and are on an airplane and someone starts having seizures, and the person next to them shouts out, "Is anyone here a doctor?", you are acting beyond unethically if you rush over and say "I'm a doctor!" when your doctorate degree is a PharmD, SLPD, DPT, etc. and not an MD/DO.

See how easy that is? It seems that most of the arguments about who can and cannot call themselves Doctor on forums and editorials online and elsewhere are nothing more than d*ck measuring contests. If you earned a doctorate from a legitimate university, you have earned the right to be referred to as 'Doctor', but it is YOUR ETHICAL RESPONSIBILITY to not misrepresent yourself to others by clarifying exactly what type of doctor you are.

 

[jblil]

^ Somebody must be paid by the word...

 

[scrawnyguy]

There seems to a spike in reviving dead threads lately. It's like a really crappy version of "The Walking Dead."

 

[NewTestament]

We are asking for more rights and responsibilities as providers, but not really doing what it takes to earn those rights. I think we need to switch this around - more rigorous training followed by the demand for more rights and responsibility. I just don't think the DPT has enough meat on the bone to justify the elevated stature.

But here's the dilemma. With entry-level DPT's making $60-70k, who would want more training when the average cost of a DPT is >$100k and 3 years if the extra cost and time doesn't confer higher salaries. But yes a DPT is really just a master's and we should call it that. Calling a master's a DPT is not a good way to earn more respect in this industry.

 

[SloanTriumph]

Salary isn't based on title, it's based on the ability to generate money. My friend is a periodontist, he gets paid $7,000 per surgery, because thats the amount of money he generates from insurance. Not because he did extra years of school. or because of his title. Guys the DPT is here to stay, so embrace it, don't embellish it, or put it down. I hate how much animosity there is towards DPTs, when I was doing my observations so many older PTs and PTAs bashed the DPT idea. You could see the jealousy and bitterness in their face. Other PTs i had met were proud and thought it would only benefit the reputation of all PTs. Most MDs I meet think it's awesome and well deserved. Most chriopractors bash it heavily due to their own financial incentive to bad mouth PTs.

Just a conspiracy theory, but I believe chiropractors are paying shills to bad mouth the DPT over the internet. Its ridiculous how many threads I see on various websites bashing the idea of a DPT.

ALSO, my uncle is a DPT in the airforce. government DPTs can write prescriptions and order scans. Relatively soon all DPTs will be able to do this. Give it time.

 

[hunter5]

I have been out of PT school for 20+ years so have that much experience, perspective under my belt. I have not gone back to get get my DPT, many PT's my age that I know have not. None of the physical therapists with DPT's that I work with are referred to as doctor- I think it would be odd to call them doctor and not the other non DPT physical therapists. Eventually this will be a non issue as most PT's will have the DPT degree. Personally, I think the initials PT after my name, and being called "just" a physical therapist is more accurate, more straightforward than "doctor". In fact, the "doctor" title and some of the confusion around it at present makes the title sound kind of tacky ironically, IMO. And, if I were to go back and receive the DPT, I would have to label myself with the little 't"? Weird. tDPT.

I recently got a referral for PT from my MD for "right shoulder pain". I was looking forward to seeing a PT and having them assess what was really going on as I knew it was related to an injury, probably with scapular mm involvement and I was having trouble figuring it out. The DPT who did my evaluation did not have me undress, barely palpated, did MMT and ROM, a few shoulder impingement tests, gave me 3 exercises and that was it- with instruction to come back 8 times. I was disappointed but went a second time- there was no quick re eval of my shoulder beyond a pain assessment- just a complete new set of exercises with 2 ropes of theraband. Both young therapists and I was left wondering if my education 20 years ago was better than theirs, at least in dealing with shoulder evaluation and treatment.

 

[jblil]

The DPT who did my evaluation did not have me undress, barely palpated, did MMT and ROM, a few shoulder impingement tests, gave me 3 exercises and that was it- with instruction to come back 8 times.

Let me guess: the PT you saw was youngish, may be only a few years out of school? Out of curiosity, why did you go to a PT, being a very experienced PT yourself? You probably had a good idea of the root cause of the pain. Could you have asked one of your experienced colleagues (assuming you're currently working as a PT) to examine you, since there are some tests we can't do on ourselves?

 

[Azimuthal]

Let me guess: the PT you saw was youngish, may be only a few years out of school? Out of curiosity, why did you go to a PT, being a very experienced PT yourself? You probably had a good idea of the root cause of the pain. Could you have asked one of your experienced colleagues (assuming you're currently working as a PT) to examine you, since there are some tests we can't do on ourselves?

I asked myself these same questions.

 

[jesspt]

Let me guess: the PT you saw was youngish, may be only a few years out of school? Out of curiosity, why did you go to a PT, being a very experienced PT yourself? You probably had a good idea of the root cause of the pain. Could you have asked one of your experienced colleagues (assuming you're currently working as a PT) to examine you, since there are some tests we can't do on ourselves?

Does it matter why they went to PT if they got ****ty care once they got there?

 

[Fiveoboy11]

I have been out of PT school for 20+ years so have that much experience, perspective under my belt. I have not gone back to get get my DPT, many PT's my age that I know have not. None of the physical therapists with DPT's that I work with are referred to as doctor- I think it would be odd to call them doctor and not the other non DPT physical therapists. Eventually this will be a non issue as most PT's will have the DPT degree. Personally, I think the initials PT after my name, and being called "just" a physical therapist is more accurate, more straightforward than "doctor". In fact, the "doctor" title and some of the confusion around it at present makes the title sound kind of tacky ironically, IMO. And, if I were to go back and receive the DPT, I would have to label myself with the little 't"? Weird. tDPT.

I recently got a referral for PT from my MD for "right shoulder pain". I was looking forward to seeing a PT and having them assess what was really going on as I knew it was related to an injury, probably with scapular mm involvement and I was having trouble figuring it out. The DPT who did my evaluation did not have me undress, barely palpated, did MMT and ROM, a few shoulder impingement tests, gave me 3 exercises and that was it- with instruction to come back 8 times. I was disappointed but went a second time- there was no quick re eval of my shoulder beyond a pain assessment- just a complete new set of exercises with 2 ropes of theraband. Both young therapists and I was left wondering if my education 20 years ago was better than theirs, at least in dealing with shoulder evaluation and treatment.

How do you get from poor quality service in your opinion to your education 20 years ago was better than contemporary education? Let's compare outcomes of hundreds of thousands instead of extrapolate everything from nothing as you do. Maybe look into some evidence and logic con ed.

 

[Fiveoboy11]

Let me guess: the PT you saw was youngish, may be only a few years out of school? Out of curiosity, why did you go to a PT, being a very experienced PT yourself? You probably had a good idea of the root cause of the pain. Could you have asked one of your experienced colleagues (assuming you're currently working as a PT) to examine you, since there are some tests we can't do on ourselves?

Who knows what the real motive is. In any case this "study" has a very high risk of bias.

 

[SloanTriumph]

Hunter5 is another shill account. New account with one post just bashing PTs.

 

[frosted2]

I would love to see Student30 trying to argue that a DPT education is on par with a MD's, DO's (both do residencies including a general medicine internship in addition to a speciality residency...not done in PT or should need to) or DDS. My dentist actually introduces himself by his first and last name not 'doctor,' and he performs surgery, prescribes meds, and performs x-rays...a dentist is NOT a physician but no dentist would confuse himself as one as I have experienced with DPT's and they (dentists) do some serious invasive procedures...I do not know the educational background of dpm, or od's but seriously the term 'doctor' is getting watered down...audiologists, OT's, pharmacists, what's next? doctors of nursing? doctor of physical therapy assistant, doctor of certified nursing assistant, doctor of janitorial services, doctor of EEG tech? pretty soon, all you will here in a hospital is everyone calling each other doctor...you can refer to your degree as a doctorate but leave the title alone and be proud to be practicing PT and not wasting time chasing titles....

Incase you are still on SDN, you should know that you predicted the future. You should consider palm reading.

 

[truthseeker]