Drexel vs PCOM

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DocLove06

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Which school is better? If anyone can list some pros and cons about each school that would really help! Thanks!
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I interviewed at Drexel, and I've done my homework on PCOM. I know grads of both schools at the hospital I work at. I am under the impression that they are pretty similar. They share a lot of rotation sites and whatnot. The medical student community in Philly is a pretty close-knit group.

Drexel (the campus where they do the classroom stuff in years 1&2) may be in a more dangerous area, if that matters. I know that a block or two down is a pretty shady area that they told us never to set foot in. I think PCOM is in the suburbs, but I'm not sure exactly where.
 
Err? You realize one is osteopathic and the other is allopathic? PCOM is one of the best, if not the best osteopathic school. Do you agree with OMM and osteopathic philosophy? If yes, then your choice is clear. If not, then your choice is clear.
 
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Lokhtar said:
Err? You realize one is osteopathic and the other is allopathic? PCOM is one of the best, if not the best osteopathic school. Do you agree with OMM and osteopathic philosophy? If yes, then your choice is clear. If not, then your choice is clear.
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good point..md or do doesn't really matter to me. i just wanted a civil discussion on the two schools and was wondering what sdn thought. some big decisions are coming up for me!
 
PCOM is rock solid. In building terms, its the foundation you'd want to build your house on. PCOM is well respected among the medical schools in the area and is known countrywide for its osteopathic program. In regards to Drexel, you have to make a curricular decision. Its either PBL or Lecture. I think this is too one-way and I don't like being "forced" into picking one. If this isn't the case, hopefully someone speaks up. This is the impression I got though when listening to an Admissions presentation--you must pick either or.
 
Both good schools Md Or Do... Drexel is very expensive. I still would choose the Md over Do...
 
TexasTriathlete said:
The medical student community in Philly is a pretty close-knit group.
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We are? 😕 News to me. That might be true of schools that are closer together, or, like you said, share rotation sites.

TexasTriathlete said:
I think PCOM is in the suburbs, but I'm not sure exactly where.
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PCOM is on the edge of Philadelphia's western city limits - on City Line Ave, not far from St. Joseph's University. I think the Sixers used to have their practice facility at PCOM (they still might; I wouldn't know).
 
Your choice is going to come down to your own ideas and preferences.
I personally don't think there is any ground for comparisson but that's just me. Yes drexel is more expensive, I cringed at the tuition bill I'm looking at for next year, but from what I've seen (and heard from students there) its worth it. Does PCOM give you the same thing, I don't really know, from my own experience working with Drexel Med students and PCOM students you see a huge difference in reasoning, which of course comes down to how you learn.

As for the community being pretty close-knit I don't know how you came up with that one? the med schools are more or less in their own individual corner of the city. Can't really say much about attitudes except the one time I was around Jefferson wearing a Drexel hoodie, one of the med students told me "to get the hell out of their campus", I've met much nicer Jeff people since then so I'm considering that a rare exception :laugh:
 
The interaction between students at different campuses tends to sometimes boil down to which organizations you are a part of. I know of at least 2 organizations on campus in which students often interact with students from the other medical campuses in Philly.
 
MD > DO

it's a stigma you have your whole life. if you have the choice, i wouldn't choose to have it.
 
TexasTriathlete said:
I interviewed at Drexel, and I've done my homework on PCOM. I know grads of both schools at the hospital I work at. I am under the impression that they are pretty similar. They share a lot of rotation sites and whatnot. The medical student community in Philly is a pretty close-knit group.

Drexel (the campus where they do the classroom stuff in years 1&2) may be in a more dangerous area, if that matters. I know that a block or two down is a pretty shady area that they told us never to set foot in. I think PCOM is in the suburbs, but I'm not sure exactly where.
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city line can be just a shotty as easy falls. neither are great areas..
 
Agreed MD > DO in terms of how you're respected. Also, if you plan on living in the western united states, know that there aren't as many DOs out there and I'm sorry to say there is a true lack of respect in some of the major medical centers out there. I'm not saying that's right but its the reality. There are some residency programs that don't have a single D.O. as a resident.

Also, I really don't know of any clinical sites that are "shared". I know both Temple & Drexel use St. Chris. Drexel mainly uses Hahnemann Hospital & St. Chris Children's Hospital in Philadelphia and has multiple other great sites around PA/NJ/DE. The campus is fine, parking is provided on campus, and there really isn't much crime in the area. Security patrols take care of campus and there's no reason to feel unsafe.
 
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Where are PCOM's rotation sites?
 
caliboy007 said:
Where are PCOM's rotation sites?
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Q. Where will I do my clerkships?
A. PCOM considers the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania its campus. Third and fourth year clinical clerkships take place in 32 affiliated hospitals, five health care centers and in numerous outpatient facilities and physicians' offices, in both rural and urban settings throughout the state. It is also possible to arrange elective rotations throughout the U.S. and around the world.

http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html
That's the list for rotations. They're not all big name hospitals, some are satellites (like Pennsylvania Hospital). They rotate at 3 hospitals near my home (Lehigh Valley, Muhlenberg, and St. Lukes) which are great hospitals for the Allentown area.

Remember also, at the small sites you will be doing more (probably). Looking at EM, it appears they rotate you through Lehigh Valley if you want to. Lehigh Valley is the main trauma hub of the Allentown region of Pennsylvania. Most accidents within 20-50 miles I would say do get airlifted to that campus if HUP/Jeff/or Temple are not closer.

The rotations could be more impressive and include big name hospitals in the area, but it seems that those are reserved for residents.
 
ahaydt said:
Q. Where will I do my clerkships?
A. PCOM considers the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania its campus. Third and fourth year clinical clerkships take place in 32 affiliated hospitals, five health care centers and in numerous outpatient facilities and physicians' offices, in both rural and urban settings throughout the state. It is also possible to arrange elective rotations throughout the U.S. and around the world.

http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html
That's the list for rotations. They're not all big name hospitals, some are satellites (like Pennsylvania Hospital). They rotate at 3 hospitals near my home (Lehigh Valley, Muhlenberg, and St. Lukes) which are great hospitals for the Allentown area.

Remember also, at the small sites you will be doing more (probably). Looking at EM, it appears they rotate you through Lehigh Valley if you want to. Lehigh Valley is the main trauma hub of the Allentown region of Pennsylvania. Most accidents within 20-50 miles I would say do get airlifted to that campus if HUP/Jeff/or Temple are not closer.

The rotations could be more impressive and include big name hospitals in the area, but it seems that those are reserved for residents.
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I think the problem right there is that they are not big name hospitals in Philadelphia. In your rotations, you want to see really complicated heart cases, oncology, craniofacial, etc. You aren't going to see that at a Roxborough Hospital, Mercy-Scranton, etc. The only thing major they have is Pennsylvania Hospital. Compare a few of Drexel's MAJOR sites:

Hahnemann Hospital
Allegheny Hospital
Capital Health System-Trenton
York Hospital
St. Christopher's Hospital for Children
Monmouth Medical Center
Mercy (Philadelphia and Darby)
Friends Hospital (Psych)

They do share Crozer-Chester, Lehigh Valley, Abington but those are minor compared to the above list.
 
spazzz said:
city line can be just a shotty as easy falls. neither are great areas..
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Neither are too bad either, they're both a heck of a lot better than North Philly (Temple). But I do agree that location shouldn't be a deciding factor between the two. I wouldn't say either are fantastic.
 
caliboy007 said:
I think the problem right there is that they are not big name hospitals in Philadelphia. In your rotations, you want to see really complicated heart cases, oncology, craniofacial, etc. You aren't going to see that at a Roxborough Hospital, Mercy-Scranton, etc. The only thing major they have is Pennsylvania Hospital. Compare a few of Drexel's MAJOR sites:

Hahnemann Hospital
Allegheny Hospital
Capital Health System-Trenton
York Hospital
St. Christopher's Hospital for Children
Monmouth Medical Center
Mercy (Philadelphia and Darby)
Friends Hospital (Psych)

They do share Crozer-Chester, Lehigh Valley, Abington but those are minor compared to the above list.
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I do agree, but you still will get great exposure. The only contempt I have is your claim for the Lehigh Valley. That area, if cases aren't going to NYC or Phila, is a great exposure spot. I know I referenced EM before and I will mention it again. EM exposure at Lehigh Valley/Muhlenberg/St. Lukes is great exposure.

Hands down out of the three I would rotate through Lehigh Valley, though.
 
Stigma? Maybe to some old school docs. But for the most part, this is no longer the case.
The more important issue, which you have completely missed, is the extra skill set. Don't care much about musculoskeletal conditions? They aren't too sexy, until you consider that lower back pain is the #2 reason for a visit to a primary care physician.
 
Rotation sites for PCOM: Yes, you won't see major once in a lifetime cases often at small hospital like Roxborough. However, 3rd year rotations occur at many larger hospitals, ranging from Dborah heart and lung to Lankenau to Geisinger to Lehigh Valley... And for fourth year or electives you can go wherever you want...

But what about rotating at a small hospital? No matter which medical school you attend, there are some huge advantages to small hospitals. For one, you aren't competing for experience with other students and residents. Case in point: I will be doing general surgery at a small hospital. Instead of holding retractors as most medical students do for their general surgery rotation, I'll be first assist. By the end, many students at sites like these are closing on their own. So, in the end, who do you think has the better experience?
 
DocLove06 said:
Which school is better? If anyone can list some pros and cons about each school that would really help! Thanks!
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As a PCOM student, I suggest you consider that PCOM's curriculum is lecture based while Drexel offers both lecture and PBL tracts.
 
12leadmedic said:
But what about rotating at a small hospital? No matter which medical school you attend, there are some huge advantages to small hospitals. For one, you aren't competing for experience with other students and residents. Case in point: I will be doing general surgery at a small hospital. Instead of holding retractors as most medical students do for their general surgery rotation, I'll be first assist.
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True - but there is a difference between being first assist on a kidney transplant (big hospital) and being first assist on an open chole or a lap appy (small hospital).

Being first assist on a lap appy means...retracting, basically. While it IS a step up from driving the camera, I don't know if I'd write home about it.

And just because it's a smaller hospital doesn't mean that there won't be any residents there. (Even Heart of Lancaster - which looks pretty small - has an osteopathic residency program.)

Furthermore, make sure that your rotation site doesn't have too many PAs at it. Surgical PAs function like residents - they first assist, etc. - and (in my experience) are less considerate of students than residents are. Residents are usually cool and willing to teach you stuff and let you do something fun in the OR. The PAs that I worked with, though, were very territorial and wouldn't let me do squat in the OR (not even fill out paperwork).

12leadmedic said:
By the end, many students at sites like these are closing on their own.
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I don't know what kind of cases they do at those sites, but if they're doing mostly lap appys and lap choles (which are your basic bread and butter gen surg cases), there isn't much to close. Maybe 4 incisions, tops, that are a couple of centimeters wide. Less than 10 stitches, and you're done.

There are lots of reasons to go to PCOM. But a lot of the advantages to rotating through smaller hospitals that you've cited aren't truly all that exciting. Even if you go to PCOM, if you're really interested in doing general surgery, you should still try to get a rotation at one of the bigger hospitals.

ahaydt said:
Remember also, at the small sites you will be doing more (probably).
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Sometimes that's true, but not always.

For OB/gyn, at the bigger hospitals, people got to deliver more babies - bigger volume means more opportunities for students.

At the smaller hospitals, which were mostly private patients, the med students weren't really allowed to do much except watch. Plus, they were dividing up deliveries with the family med and EM interns.

So it varies. Same thing for surgery - bigger surgical volumes sometimes means that people will let you do more, because there are more opportunities to divvy up.
 
Heimerfink said:
MD > DO

it's a stigma you have your whole life. if you have the choice, i wouldn't choose to have it.
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Brilliant.

So, which osteopathic medical school did you graduate from? Obviously no one would make this broad of a statement without having fully attended an allopathic and osteopathic medical school and/or worked for numerous years in the medical field, building undeniable proof that DOs are not respected and are inferior to MDs. I was under the impression that both were fully licensed physicians that practiced in ever field of medicine and surgery in all areas of the United States. I would love to see your extensive data when you get a chance!

Not trying to be a dick, but obviously if the OP is raising a question regarding two medical schools, one DO and one MD, he/she views the degrees as equal and is looking for an opinion on which school. The title of the thread wasn't MD vs DO.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Brilliant.

So, which osteopathic medical school did you graduate from? Obviously no one would make this broad of a statement without having fully attended an allopathic and osteopathic medical school and/or worked for numerous years in the medical field, building undeniable proof that DOs are not respected and are inferior to MDs. I was under the impression that both were fully licensed physicians that practiced in ever field of medicine and surgery in all areas of the United States. I would love to see your extensive data when you get a chance!

Not trying to be a dick, but obviously if the OP is raising a question regarding two medical schools, one DO and one MD, he/she views the degrees as equal and is looking for an opinion on which school. The title of the thread wasn't MD vs DO.
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dude, i think he was saying an MD>DO stigma exists, and that you shouldn't deal with it if you don't have to.
it doesn't mean it is right, but it IS the case at this point in time.
i think MD=DO, you think MD=DO. be good enough to prove it and the stigma will disappear.
 
Frank l said:
dude, i think he was saying an MD>DO stigma exists, and that you shouldn't deal with it if you don't have to.
it doesn't mean it is right, but it IS the case at this point in time.
i think MD=DO, you think MD=DO. be good enough to prove it and the stigma will disappear.
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See ... that I can agree with. Also, if he was saying the stigma does still exist in some cases, I wouldn't deny that either. However, someone just saying MD > DO and you will always be inferior ... just isn't right.
 
ahaydt said:

Remember also, at the small sites you will be doing more (probably). Looking at EM, it appears they rotate you through Lehigh Valley if you want to. Lehigh Valley is the main trauma hub of the Allentown region of Pennsylvania. Most accidents within 20-50 miles I would say do get airlifted to that campus if HUP/Jeff/or Temple are not closer.
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Lehigh may be on the list but it ain't quite that easy. There are probably a dozen rotation groups that rotate on the same specialty together. For each group there are an extremely limited number of spots to choose from at each particular site. There may be 20 sites, but there may be only one slot at each site. If someone else in your group picks ahead of you, you are SOL. Least that's the way that it was when I was there a while back.
 
smq123 said:
There are lots of reasons to go to PCOM. But a lot of the advantages to rotating through smaller hospitals that you've cited aren't truly all that exciting. Even if you go to PCOM, if you're really interested in doing general surgery, you should still try to get a rotation at one of the bigger hospitals.
Sometimes that's true, but not always.
For OB/gyn, at the bigger hospitals, people got to deliver more babies - bigger volume means more opportunities for students.

At the smaller hospitals, which were mostly private patients, the med students weren't really allowed to do much except watch. Plus, they were dividing up deliveries with the family med and EM interns.

So it varies. Same thing for surgery - bigger surgical volumes sometimes means that people will let you do more, because there are more opportunities to divvy up.
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I did my OB rotation at a small community hospital (Mercy Suburban). No deliveries for the month. Did yank a placenta out though.
 
FWIW I was on par with all the interns I started with and have always scored well above the national average on my inservice exams. Drexel will probably give you better clinicals and definitely easier to match your desired residency. Not bashing PCOM by any means, it's just reality.
 
Look at the schools respective match lists.

Whichever is better, go for that school.

Other thoughts:

What is the cost differential between drexel and pcom?
Do I want to be a DO or MD?
Rotation sites for each school (important)
Is the area around Drexel safe for my wife and 3 small children?
 
OP, what do you want to specialize in?

If you are shooting for a real competitive allopathic residency such as dermatology or cardiosurgery, I would suggest going to Drexel as a definite answer. Even though it is more expensive, it will be worth it for these residencies.

Otherwise, pick the school that you felt the most comfortable. The stigma only exists in the pre-med and old school doc's world. In a real life hospital setting, MDs and DOs work alongside and do not regard each other as inferior. They are more interested in saving a patient than caring about who is better.
 
DocInProgress said:
OP, what do you want to specialize in?

If you are shooting for a real competitive allopathic residency such as dermatology or cardiosurgery, I would suggest going to Drexel as a definite answer. Even though it is more expensive, it will be worth it for these residencies.

Otherwise, pick the school that you felt the most comfortable. The stigma only exists in the pre-med and old school doc's world. In a real life hospital setting, MDs and DOs work alongside and do not regard each other as inferior. They are more interested in saving a patient than caring about who is better.
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Drexel matched 13 into orthopedic surgery and 8 into ophthalmology this year. I haven't seen the PCOM match list, but I highly doubt the numbers are as good.
 
caliboy007 said:
Drexel matched 13 into orthopedic surgery and 8 into ophthalmology this year. I haven't seen the PCOM match list, but I highly doubt the numbers are as good.
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You can doubt all you want... what matters are the facts. I will pick up the match results from last year tomorrow from the admissions office. Then, we can have an educated discussion rather than one based on the assumptions of a pre-med.

Then, of course, there are people who have no interest in optho, rads, derm, or ortho... but I guess that's a nonfactor, right?
 
The stigma isn't what I would worry about. You do the work, you get into a good residency, and it doesn't matter what letters are behind your name. I would be more concerned about the alumni network, extra hurdles as a DO (COMLEX + USMLE, extra DO regulations for some states including PA, and an additional class in OMM while learning all the other stuff during the pre-clinical years, disfunctional governing body in the AOA). PCOM has a great local alumni network, so this wouldn't be a concern if you are staying in the general geographic area.

If you are looking to be a primary care doc and are interested in practicing in the general geographic area, PCOM should give you the same advantages as Drexel. PCOM would be cheaper, too. But, if you are looking to specialize and/or move to another area of the country for residency, than Drexel would make your path much easier. If you aren't 100% sure what you want to do, I would choose Drexel because it would give you more options in the future. It is not that you can't become a fancy neurosurgeon as a DO from PCOM, it is just be that starting there can make it that much harder.
 
Lshapley said:
If you are looking to be a primary care doc and are interested in practicing in the general geographic area, PCOM should give you the same advantages as Drexel. PCOM would be cheaper, too.
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Actually, PCOM is not that much cheaper. I remember this surprised me, but DO schools are remarkably expensive.

PCOM is $37,500 - $38,000 per year.

Drexel is $40,000 a year.

So PCOM IS somewhat cheaper, but I don't know how much of a difference it makes to you.

If you want to stay in the same general geographic area, I don't even know how much of a boost Drexel would give you over PCOM. PCOM graduates are pretty well respected around Philadelphia, and they have their own very good residency programs. At the hospital I'm rotating at now, all the urology and ortho interns went to PCOM. So, it's kind of up to you.
 
I think you misread my post. I was actually saying that if you are staying local, than PCOM = Drexel in terms of network and reputation. I'm sure at some places PCOM > Drexel, too! Particularly because of the relatively recent merger with Drexel, the name recognition isn't quite there. When I was applying to PCOM, I had a long talk to a PCOM anesthesiologist. Clearly going to PCOM didn't hurt her ability to get into a competitive residency in the area. I'm just not so sure it would have been helpful for her if she didn't want to stay local and if she wasn't such a superstar.

Drexel only gives 18% of its students grants/scholarships, which is really low. I think you would have to look at your own finaid package to make that decision.
 
I like PCOM a lot. I'm just putting this out there as another tidbit of information. Hahnemann (drexel) is very well respected amongst the middle aged and older private practice guys. These are the guys that don't deal with residents and don't read US news rankings, but they seem to think highly of Hahnemann. Not very valuable, but another piece of information for you. I think it just has to do with the age of the school. (1840ish I think?)
 
Lshapley said:
The transitional year/traditional rotating internship was a big turn off for me. It is "required" by DO schools, but you can get a letter from AOA to opt out. Too much potential for ugliness IMO.
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Actually, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there are only 5 states which require a rotating internship. Also, many of the programs offer a tracking internship in which only a portion of the year is rotating. PCOM is one of those schools. If you match into general surgery with the tracking internship, I think half of your intern year is in general surgery and counts towards the training. There are other specialties that do that, I just used gen surg as an example.
 
Lshapley said:
The transitional year/traditional rotating internship was a big turn off for me. It is "required" by DO schools, but you can get a letter from AOA to opt out. Too much potential for ugliness IMO.
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i thought everyone (md and do) does an internship?

or do only certain specialties require one?
 
xanthomondo said:
i thought everyone (md and do) does an internship?

or do only certain specialties require one?
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I believe that some states (including PA) require DOs to do a prelim year, essentially, and then do an internship in their chosen field. Basically, like 2 internships. (This is for AOA accreditation.)

MDs don't need to do a prelim year, and can just do an internship in their chosen field.

A very good explanation: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3315415&postcount=4

P.S. Heh, there's a relevant discussion in the osteopathic forum going on right now: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6412249
 
caliboy007 said:
Drexel matched 13 into orthopedic surgery and 8 into ophthalmology this year. I haven't seen the PCOM match list, but I highly doubt the numbers are as good.
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Ahhhh your ignorance must be bliss. Just because a school matches a bunch of people into more competitive residencies isn't the absolute measure of its quality. My father has two docs working for him who both gave up Drexel and Temple respectively to go to PCOM and for a variety of reasons, including quality of life and education. I am not bashing Drexel or Temple but there are definately people out there that are looking beyond match lists or MD vs DO to make their decision.

I think some of the other posts provide some excellent advice on other things to consider when deciding between these great schools. I think the best advice is going to be from those that are actually going to these schools or have graduated from them. See if you can talk to some current students at either of these schools to get a more objective view of both of them.
 
fireflygirl said:
Ahhhh your ignorance must be bliss. Just because a school matches a bunch of people into more competitive residencies isn't the absolute measure of its quality.
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Relax. Caliboy was responding to someone else's comment about matching into competitive residencies. I don't think anyone is trying to say the match list is the be-all end-all for what makes a good medical school. But it is important. Especially if you are already considering a specific residency field and you are choosing between two schools...one of which matches lots of people into whatever field you are interested in and one that doesn't.

I'm still waiting to see the PCOM match list. The link above for 2007 is a "locations matched" list. It doesn't give absolute numbers of how many people matched in each location. Very important distintion IMO.
 
Why do you PCOM students have such huge banners in your signatures? Compensating or something?
 
Pinkertinkle said:
Why do you PCOM students have such huge banners in your signatures? Compensating or something?
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Umm...no just really proud of where I got in. Lots of people put their class of XXXX in their signatures.
 
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