Dropping med admission to pursue dental. Worth it?

[MambaP55]

I have a great interest in pursuing dentistry but the loans and debt burden are really off putting. I have looked into military, PSLF, scholarships and what not. How does one as a student possibly green light the possibility of taking on 350-500K in loans?!

My backup to dentistry is medicine only because I was in a direct route program, meaning that unless I opt out, I will begin medical school. My program was a pipeline program from college to med school and I had a seat guaranteed for me as long as I did good on my MCAT. I was allowed time off and in that time I have really come to like dentistry.

If dentistry was a medical specialty I would 100% pick it. I enjoy working with my hands and I am absolutely ok with working with teeth. However, I am absolutely put off by the astronomical debt amounts students undertake.

My main question is , if I do some kind of minimum payment plan, what does that look like realistically in numbers? Will it even be worth it for financially to pursue dentistry?

My medical school in total would cost me around 250K with living costs. Dental school could potentially cost me double this. I want to have my own practice one day in whatever I do and it seems that owning a dental practice is more practical now than in medicine according to people I’ve asked.

Someone from USC told me that they don’t plan to ever fully payback loans. After 25 years they are forgiven. What does life even look like if you are making 25 years worth of monthly payments? Do some people just never pay them off and what are the consequences of never paying them off?

I know people say try to get into your instate school, but my instate school is a top 3 dental school so it is definitely not an easy task.

The debt reveal has been a slap in the face to me as it is something I would have to really consider. Any help is appreciated.

If I was to pursue dentistry, I would have to take another 2 years, one to take DAT and ready my application and the other to apply.

Is it worth it knowing that I have a spot in med school?

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[LFA20]

I have a great interest in pursuing dentistry but the loans and debt burden are really off putting. I have looked into military, PSLF, scholarships and what not. How does one as a student possibly green light the possibility of taking on 350-500K in loans?!

My main question is , if I do some kind of minimum payment plan, what does that look like realistically in numbers? Will it even be worth it for financially to pursue dentistry?

Someone from USC told me that they don’t plan to ever fully payback loans. After 25 years they are forgiven. What does life even look like if you are making 25 years worth of monthly payments? Do some people just never pay them off and what are the consequences of never paying them off?

I know people say try to get into your instate school, but my instate school is a top 3 dental school so it is definitely not an easy task.

The debt reveal has been a slap in the face to me as it is something I would have to really consider. Any help is appreciated.

If I was to pursue dentistry, I would have to take another 2 years, one to take DAT and ready my application and the other to apply.

Is it worth it knowing that I have a spot in med school?

350k is actually on the low end for dental schools. Most students are graduating in the 500k-600k range to become general dentists nowadays. I personally would never go to dental school for anything more than $300k unless I was doing military/NHSC.

One advantage of dentistry over medicine is that you are not required to do a residency. You can immediately hit the ground running and work. If you decide to specialize it’s additional 100k-200k depending on the specialty(unless it’s oral surgery where it’s a paid residency but it’s 4 years long and extremely competitive).

Average starting salary for an associate general dentist is in the $150k-$180k range(some can make more with the right office and population). The more rural you go the better. After a few years you should be making closer to $200k-$250k(again some can make more) and start thinking about owning. Average GP owner takes home around 400k but sky is the limit. There are people that hit 1-2M. For specialists it’s easier to make more as an associate but you may need to juggle multiple jobs. Your main goal should still to own though.



If you are doing IBR and are making minimum payment for 25 years you will need to pay tax on the remaining loan balance that’s forgiven.

Medicine in general have lower tuition but that 3-5 years of required residency is a killer(long hours of work with little pay). On average physicians make more but they also work more and owning a business is more difficult than dentistry.

I’m assuming you’re in a BS/MD program. Making a switch should not be difficult since the prerequisites are probably almost identical except the DAT/MCAT which do don’t need to take until your junior year.

 

[MambaP55]

350k is actually on the low end for dental schools. Most students are graduating in the 500k-600k range to become general dentists nowadays. I personally would never go to dental school for anything more than $300k unless I was doing military/NHSC.

One advantage of dentistry over medicine is that you are not required to do a residency. You can immediately hit the ground running and work. If you decide to specialize it’s additional 100k-200k depending on the specialty(unless it’s oral surgery where it’s a paid residency but it’s 4 years long and extremely competitive).

Average starting salary for an associate general dentist is in the $150k-$180k range(some can make more with the right office and population). The more rural you go the better. After a few years you should be making closer to $200k-$250k(again some can make more) and start thinking about owning. Average GP owner takes home around 400k but sky is the limit. There are people that hit 1-2M. For specialists it’s easier to make more as an associate but you may need to juggle multiple jobs. Your main goal should still to own though.



If you are doing IBR and are making minimum payment for 25 years you will need to pay tax on the remaining loan balance that’s forgiven.

Medicine in general have lower tuition but that 3-5 years of required residency is a killer(long hours of work with little pay). On average physicians make more but they also work more and owning a business is more difficult than dentistry.

I’m assuming you’re in a BS/MD program. Making a switch should not be difficult since the prerequisites are probably almost identical except the DAT/MCAT which do don’t need to take until your junior year.

Do you think taking on the loans is worth it or should I just stick to med school. I like both, have shadowed both. I highly prefer dentistry but the loans are just the biggest off putting factor for me. My family can pitch in around 70K ish to help with either.

That would make my med school 180K total

 

[yappy]

Do you think taking on the loans is worth it or should I just stick to med school. I like both, have shadowed both. I highly prefer dentistry but the loans are just the biggest off putting factor for me. My family can pitch in around 70K ish to help with either.

That would make my med school 180K total

Personally I would stick with medical school if I were you. 100%. Why lose 2 years? Why go into more debt? Why give up a sure thing?

I am a dentist and enjoy my profession, but Im sure that I would have been just as happy in medicine too because the field is so large and diverse. You will have lots of options to explore in medical school; including outpatient, hands on, fields like dentistry.

180k debt as a physician will be very manageable.

 

[D1Bound]

You have to other enjoy medicine or like dentistry. Dentistry, while they try to say it is now more medically focused, it is still at the end of the day a lot of tooth carpentry. There’s obvious science behind it and physiology that plays with it, but it is a lot of carpentry. Medicine is not this. The advantage of no required residency can’t be understated.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Dentists less likely to be replaced by AI and no residency. Something to consider

 

[yappy]

You have to other enjoy medicine or like dentistry. Dentistry, while they try to say it is now more medically focused, it is still at the end of the day a lot of tooth carpentry. There’s obvious science behind it and physiology that plays with it, but it is a lot of carpentry. Medicine is not this. The advantage of no required residency can’t be understated.

I don’t see the dichotomy of having to like one or the other. OP can become an orthopedic surgeon, ophthalmologist, ENT, etc and primarily do X- carpentry. OP can build a career in medicine that looks a lot like a dentist. I have friends that let hospitalists handle most of the medical management of their patients while they do their procedures and some only do out patient procedures, like dentistry.
My point is OP can go to medical school and build a career doing surgery or procedures if that’s what they enjoy. They will also have the flexibility to do a non-surgical field if they find out it’s not for them.

 

[MambaP55]

I

You have to other enjoy medicine or like dentistry. Dentistry, while they try to say it is now more medically focused, it is still at the end of the day a lot of tooth carpentry. There’s obvious science behind it and physiology that plays with it, but it is a lot of carpentry. Medicine is not this. The advantage of no required residency can’t be understated.

i really like dentistry because it’s so hands on but the debt is really terrifying. I assume I’m going to have 350-400K loans if I’m lucky enough to get into a decent school that has an okayish tuition.

It’s that fear that’s really stopped me.

 

[LFA20]

I don’t see the dichotomy of having to like one or the other. OP can become an orthopedic surgeon, ophthalmologist, ENT, etc and primarily do X- carpentry. OP can build a career in medicine that looks a lot like a dentist. I have friends that let hospitalists handle most of the medical management of their patients while they do their procedures and some only do out patient procedures, like dentistry.
My point is OP can go to medical school and build a career doing surgery or procedures if that’s what they enjoy. They will also have the flexibility to do a non-surgical field if they find out it’s not for them.

There’s nothing in medicine that will give you the satisfaction of looking at your post op BW of an impeccably sealed gingival box margin on a deep restoration

 

[D1Bound]

I

i really like dentistry because it’s so hands on but the debt is really terrifying. I assume I’m going to have 350-400K loans if I’m lucky enough to get into a decent school that has an okayish tuition.

It’s that fear that’s really stopped me.

It is still possible to make a living, but the window is closing on dentistry imo. More corporate, more schools pumping out dentists, etc. It’s changing a lot. If you’re ready to labor and put hours in you can make money

 

[Torshammer]

In which state do you plan on settling?

 

[LFA20]

Do you think taking on the loans is worth it or should I just stick to med school. I like both, have shadowed both. I highly prefer dentistry but the loans are just the biggest off putting factor for me. My family can pitch in around 70K ish to help with either.

That would make my med school 180K total

If you’re taking on 400k-500k debt for dental school and unwilling to move rural, work hard(weekends), and not planning on owning then I’d stick with medical school. You are guaranteed a 250k-300k salary even with the least competitive specialties and your debt load is much lower.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You are guaranteed a 250k-300k salary even with the least competitive specialties

This is unlikely to be true in the future as more states pass laws that allow foreign doctors to practice without completing residency here. I don’t think any states have passed similar ones for dentistry

 

[MambaP55]

If you’re taking on 400k-500k debt for dental school and unwilling to move rural, work hard(weekends), and not planning on owning then I’d stick with medical school. You are guaranteed a 250k-300k salary even with the least competitive specialties and your debt load is much lower.

I definitely want to own one day. That’s a big goal of mine if I pursue dentistry.

The big thing is just loans. Not just student loans but practice loans as well. I could go a million in debt if I decide to own. I get feasibly paying off loans from dental school but how do you juggle them whilst also paying for a practice loan?

 

[AONLINE]

This is unlikely to be true in the future as more states pass laws that allow foreign doctors to practice without completing residency here. I don’t think any states have passed similar ones for dentistry

Don't forget the NPs and PAs that can do almost everything that family doctors do for much lower pay. As far as I know very few states allow for mid-level practitioners in dentistry - and even so the scope of practice of these midlevels is very limited compared to dentists.

 

[D1Bound]

Don't forget the NPs and PAs that can do almost everything that family doctors do for much lower pay. As far as I know very few states allow for mid-level practitioners in dentistry - and even so the scope of practice of these midlevels is very limited compared to dentists.

This is a solid point

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Don't forget the NPs and PAs that can do almost everything that family doctors do for much lower pay. As far as I know very few states allow for mid-level practitioners in dentistry - and even so the scope of practice of these midlevels is very limited compared to dentists.

Yes but it hasn’t lowered salaries since most mid levels can only see 6-7 patients per day in most clinics

 

[Sensibleshrike]

Don't forget the NPs and PAs that can do almost everything that family doctors do for much lower pay. As far as I know very few states allow for mid-level practitioners in dentistry - and even so the scope of practice of these midlevels is very limited compared to dentists.

they figured out mid levels in dentistry isn't worth it, and it is much more efficient just to increase DDS/DMD programs instead

the real problem is over saturation of dentists

 

[MambaP55]

Has anyone ever heard of an owner dentist not doing well?

 

[D1Bound]

they figured out mid levels in dentistry isn't worth it, and it is much more efficient just to increase DDS/DMD programs instead

the real problem is over saturation of dentists

And dentistry is going to suffer immensely because of this

 

[yappy]

Has anyone ever heard of an owner dentist not doing well?

They exist. Join a forum called Dental Town and search for struggling owners soliciting advice.

FYI - you will almost certainly make more money as a physician than as a dentist if that is a big interest of yours. Look up MGMA stats of specialties you're interested in. Honestly, I don't get why you're so set on dental school when you are already accepted into medical school. You will make more money in medicine and you can use your hands if you choose.

If you were not already accepted to medical or dental school I could understand your position. But you're talking about going into more debt, extending your education by two years, and switching into a field that makes less money on average. Why do that? What is it about dentistry that makes you want to switch?

 

[Saddleshoes]

Has anyone ever heard of an owner dentist not doing well?

LOTS!!!!
You don't hear about them because they are small points of light in the economy.
I know a lot of these folks that basically own their job. Which does has its merits! However, the job also owns them. These guys are not going on month long vacations. These guys have a challenge making a payroll every two weeks. If we have another COVID event lots of these guys will be gone.

 

[charlestweed]

If you’re taking on 400k-500k debt for dental school and unwilling to move rural, work hard(weekends), and not planning on owning then I’d stick with medical school. You are guaranteed a 250k-300k salary even with the least competitive specialties and your debt load is much lower.

But as a physician, you have to work longer hours, more days per week, and on the weekends. Being a hospital's employee, you can't choose your own work hours. There are people's lives you have to save. You are dealing with life and death and it's stressful. For dentistry, it's not the end of the world if you mistakenly pull out a wrong tooth. With either option that you choose, dentistry or medicine, expect to have a tough road ahead. Nothing in life is easy. Everything requires hard work, and sacrifice. I think a student, who has never worked a day in his/her life before, will have tougher time to adjust to the new life after graduation. The ones who had part time jobs while in school or the second career people, tend to have more realistic expectations.....they complain less....and they tend to do better.

 

[charlestweed]

LOTS!!!!
You don't hear about them because they are small points of light in the economy.
I know a lot of these folks that basically own their job. Which does has its merits! However, the job also owns them. These guys are not going on month long vacations. These guys have a challenge making a payroll every two weeks. If we have another COVID event lots of these guys will be gone.

Most people can't take a month long vacation. People who are living paychecks to paychecks (that's about 78% of the Americans, according to a survey done by payroll.org) can't afford to take a month long vacation. People, who have family and kids to support and have a home mortgage to pay, can't take a month long vacation.

I can only think of a very small groups of the people who can afford take a month long vacation: 1. Young single people who live in their parents' house.....don't have a job.... and they don't have to pay rent/mortgage. 2.The older 50+ yo semi-retired people, who already paid off their home mortgage and other debts....and their adult kids can be on their own and no longer need their help. 3. The rich movie and sport stars.

 

[charlestweed]

Has anyone ever heard of an owner dentist not doing well?

Yes, I’ve met a few. Some sold their failed practices….filed bankruptcy….and went to work for someone else, either at the corp office or private office. Well, at least they still earn a nice 6-figure income….they make more now working as an associate than when they owned a practice, but they don’t have the autonomy that they once had. Some people just don’t have the right skills to run a business.

 

[LFA20]

Most people can't take a month long vacation. People who are living paychecks to paychecks (that's about 78% of the Americans, according to a survey done by payroll.org) can't afford to take a month long vacation. People, who have family and kids to support and have a home mortgage to pay, can't take a month long vacation.

I can only think of a very small groups of the people who can afford take a month long vacation: 1. Young single people who live in their parents' house.....don't have a job.... and they don't have to pay rent/mortgage. 2.The older 50+ yo semi-retired people, who already paid off their home mortgage and other debts....and their adult kids can be on their own and no longer need their help. 3. The rich movie and sport stars.

You forgot about military and VA employees

 

[MambaP55]

They exist. Join a forum called Dental Town and search for struggling owners soliciting advice.

FYI - you will almost certainly make more money as a physician than as a dentist if that is a big interest of yours. Look up MGMA stats of specialties you're interested in. Honestly, I don't get why you're so set on dental school when you are already accepted into medical school. You will make more money in medicine and you can use your hands if you choose.

If you were not already accepted to medical or dental school I could understand your position. But you're talking about going into more debt, extending your education by two years, and switching into a field that makes less money on average. Why do that? What is it about dentistry that makes you want to switch?

I think ownership and the 4 day week are very attractive to me.

Being in a clinical setting instead of a hospital setting is more appealing to me personally as well.

I want to own my own business one day and am very motivated but practice + student debt loans make me scared.

I’m in a weird place because the guys I have watched work are all older dentists and didn’t have to take on the insane loans of today. I’m just torn because if I turn this med school acceptance down, there’s no going back into it for me.

My biggest fear is I do it and then get into an expensive dental school that racks up my debt to 400K +. Idk how life would realistically look like if I was making monthly payments for years on end tryna satisfy existing loans

 

[charlestweed]

You forgot about military and VA employees

They deserve it. Thank you to all that serve our country.

 

[LFA20]

I think ownership and the 4 day week are very attractive to me.

Being in a clinical setting instead of a hospital setting is more appealing to me personally as well.

I want to own my own business one day and am very motivated but practice + student debt loans make me scared.

I’m in a weird place because the guys I have watched work are all older dentists and didn’t have to take on the insane loans of today. I’m just torn because if I turn this med school acceptance down, there’s no going back into it for me.

My biggest fear is I do it and then get into an expensive dental school that racks up my debt to 400K +. Idk how life would realistically look like if I was making monthly payments for years on end tryna satisfy existing loans

Do med school

 

[yappy]

I think ownership and the 4 day week are very attractive to me.

Being in a clinical setting instead of a hospital setting is more appealing to me personally as well.

I want to own my own business one day and am very motivated but practice + student debt loans make me scared.

I’m in a weird place because the guys I have watched work are all older dentists and didn’t have to take on the insane loans of today. I’m just torn because if I turn this med school acceptance down, there’s no going back into it for me.

My biggest fear is I do it and then get into an expensive dental school that racks up my debt to 400K +. Idk how life would realistically look like if I was making monthly payments for years on end tryna satisfy existing loans

I don’t think those are great reasons to become a dentist. You can work four days as a week as a physician and you can work outside the hospital. You can also have equity in a group or do solo practice if you choose. Those preferences will help you narrow down which specialty you want to pursue. GL.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

To be honest, money isn’t a good reason to become either a dentist or a doctor these days. Entry level financial analysts make like 150k. Cops in big cities make 250k. You should only do it if you have a passion for it

 

[charlestweed]

To be honest, money isn’t a good reason to become either a dentist or a doctor these days. Entry level financial analysts make like 150k. Cops in big cities make 250k. You should only do it if you have a passion for it

Dentistry gives you the opportunities to earn a good income (potential to earn $1M) and to be your own boss. But having a DDS/MD degree doesn’t guarantee anything. You are not entitled to a good paying job after graduation. And the success still depends heavily on your hard work and willingness to make sacrifices. To get paid well (or to demand a raise), you have to show your boss that you have great clinical skills and you are a hard worker. No boss wants to hire a person who is slow, lazy, and is a whiner. And when you become a boss, you continue to work hard to build your reputation. No patient wants to see a dentist who is lazy and takes vacations all the time.

Yes, police officers get paid very well and they get to retire after 20 years. It's a dangerous job and they deserve it. But not everyone can be a police officer. I can’t be a cop. I am small and weak (both mentally and physically). I don’t think I can pass all the tests that are required for being a cop. Just because you are smart enough to be a doctor, it doesn’t mean that you are good at doing other things.

According to this (https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/financial-analyst/salary), financial analysts make between $64-130k, which IMO is no longer considered a good income anymore. I currently pay my office manager $65k/yr. She is 59 yo....single (her adult son doesn't live with her).... and she has been living paycheck to paycheck all her life. She has never taken a vacation but she gets paid vacation as one of her benefits. So at the end of the year, I write her a 2-week pay check.

TBH, when I applied for dental school, I didn't have any passion for it. I didn't know anything about dentistry (back then we were not required to shadow a dentist). I just wanted to make money and have a better future....being able to meet a nice person and get married. No one wants to marry a loser who has no job. I didn't have any other choices. I knew my BS degree in Biology was useless. I wasn't smart enough for med school. So dentistry was the next best choice for me.

 

[Life of Pablo]

Do medical school. There are plenty of specialties you can pursue that are hands on - ENT/Ophtho/Interventional radiology/PM&R…the list goes on.

There is also a chance you get to medical school and realize that you actually don’t like using your hands. In that case, you still have a lot of options to choose from.

If debt is going to be close to double for dental school, I would go the medical route and don’t look back.

 

[D1Bound]

I think ownership and the 4 day week are very attractive to me.

Being in a clinical setting instead of a hospital setting is more appealing to me personally as well.

I want to own my own business one day and am very motivated but practice + student debt loans make me scared.

I’m in a weird place because the guys I have watched work are all older dentists and didn’t have to take on the insane loans of today. I’m just torn because if I turn this med school acceptance down, there’s no going back into it for me.

My biggest fear is I do it and then get into an expensive dental school that racks up my debt to 400K +. Idk how life would realistically look like if I was making monthly payments for years on end tryna satisfy existing loans

Older dentists were in an era where dental schools was priced at $30 a credit hour and every bank would give you a loan with zero credit history or assets. Their lived experience is completely irrelevant for people to shadow

 

[Dral]

I'd say look into medical specialties a little more. There are some things that a lot of people just don't realize are there at your point.

Ophthalmology

What is a Retina Specialist? - The American Society of Retina Specialists - Patients - The American Society of Retina Specialists

www.asrs.org

Dermatology

Mohs Surgery

Mohs surgery is considered the most effective technique for treating the two most common types of skin cancer. Learn more about the procedure.

www.skincancer.org

Pain (fellowship from several residencies)

What Does a Pain Doctor Do? | Pain Specialists of America

Pain management doctors diagnose & treat chronic pain using advanced therapies. From medication to interventional procedures, they offer personalized care.

www.psadocs.com

Radiology

What Is Interventional Radiology?

Interventional radiology: Learn how interventional radiology can diagnose and treat cancer and other conditions without major surgery.

www.webmd.com

Those are just a few of course.

Granted there are a lot of years of 'sunk cost' into becoming, for example, a mohs surgeon (4 of med school, 4 of residency, 1 of fellowship) and Dermatology is not easy to get into; but if you get there, the average salary based on MGMA data is $720k a year for a job that for the most part is an 8 to 5, M to F (or even M to Th).

I think Dentistry is a great field and my intention is to not sway you from that or say one is better than the other. My intent is to just make you aware that you should just try to explore some fields of medicine before you rule it out. The best way to do that is to see if you can get some shadowing opportunities in. I'd say if you do that and decide what you see isn't for you, then go all in for dentistry.

 

[deleted923283]

Has anyone ever heard of an owner dentist not doing well?

I’ve heard of lots of people who can’t afford to be owners.

 

[TanMan]

To be a contrarian, you don't need a medical degree to own a medical office. Just hire a medical director and save yourself the 4+ years of going to medical school + residency.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

My medical school in total would cost me around 250K with living costs. Dental school could potentially cost me double this.

It could cost you triple that or more at a school like USC or NYU. If you’re starting at one of those schools this fall and relying solely on loans, you’ll owe at least $750k to $800k. If you specialize, imagine tacking on potentially another $300k or more. And that’s all going to be at a nearly 8% interest rate.

USC FIRST YEAR Cost of Attendance $173k 2023-2024

People are still applying! 2012: $114k (4% increase) 2013: $123k (8%) 2014: $127k (3%) 2015: $130k (2%) 2016: $134k (3%) 2017: $137k (2%) 2018: $140k (2%) 2019: $149k (6%) 2020: $152k (2%) 2021: $154k (1%) 2022: $162k (5%) 2023: $168k (4%) 2024: $173k (3%) *Plus interest rates of 6%+ for...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Someone from USC told me that they don’t plan to ever fully payback loans. After 25 years they are forgiven. What does life even look like if you are making 25 years worth of monthly payments? Do some people just never pay them off and what are the consequences of never paying them off?

It’s called the tax bomb. All that forgiven balance will be considered taxable income. You better have saved up for it…unless you want the IRS to take your house. If you’re someone like Mike Meru and you let your loans snowball, your taxable income that year could be into the millions of dollars.

Mike Meru Has $1 Million in Student Loans. How Did That Happen?

Due to escalating tuition and easy credit, the U.S. has 101 people who owe at least $1 million in federal student loans. Five years ago, 14 people owed that much. More could soon be joining the group.

www.wsj.com

Big Hoss