Drug Testing for Incoming Students?

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Law2Doc said:
While I personally don't care who does what, I have to say that gettng irritated by people who say a future professional should obey the law (even if the law may be based on outdated assumptions) is kind of bizarre. There is no reason to "research it independently" -- it is against the law. If someone researched it and found it beneficial, s/he still shouldn't do it if it is illegal. Getting caught with or using drugs can jeopardize your future. It really is moot whether they damage brain cells or whatever, because they can destroy your life just by being in your backpack, let alone your bloodstream.
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You sound like a DARE spokesperson.

Drug testing for marijuana by medical schools is unnecessarily invasive. Schools don't do background checks for things like alcoholism or psychiatric problems, which would be a far greater risk to patients' lives. A doctor that smokes marijuana recreationally is no greater danger than one who does not smoke at all.

I don't plan on smoking marijuana during medical school or throughout my career. But to chastise those who do as stupid law-breakers is a bit preachy. As long as these marijuana smokers don't pull a Michael Vick, they'll be fine.
 
Towelie said:
But to chastise those who do as stupid law-breakers is a bit preachy.
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That's not exactly what my point was. I took issue with the dude who was "irritated" with people who asserted that folks should obey the law as opposed to doing their own "research". I personally have no problem with pot smokers (eg in places and quantities where it is legal in the world), but I do have a problem with folks who break the law and then cry foul when the law gets enforced. Doesn't matter what your morality or beliefs are -- the law is what it is, and you either follow it or you don't. And if you don't, the action has known consequences.

We have a variety of legal means to change bad laws through petition, legislative action, lobbying, writing your congressman and the like. But simply disregarding the law is not the method of objection many attorneys would advise, as it is not an option that doesn't carry repurcussions. I'm not sure that my saying that everyone is bound by the law, and thus ought to follow it, is preachy - it is basically stating the obvious. If your future is important to you, walk the straight line and you will have fewer hurdles.
 
I dislike the pre-meds who get all high and mighty about drugs and how we shouldn't do them.

I also dislike the pre-meds who get in a hissy about these ^ types of people while acting all "experienced" and/or liberal.

In short, I dislike you all. :meanie:
 
Law2Doc said:
While I personally don't care who does what, I have to say that gettng irritated by people who say a future professional should obey the law (even if the law may be based on outdated assumptions) is kind of bizarre. There is no reason to "research it independently" -- it is against the law. If someone researched it and found it beneficial, s/he still shouldn't do it if it is illegal. Getting caught with or using drugs can jeopardize your future. It really is moot whether they damage brain cells or whatever, because they can destroy your life just by being in your backpack, let alone your bloodstream.
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I just think its dumb to think smoking pot is the end all for a physician. As if a recreational pot-smoking doctor is wasting his life away and will screw up his patients because he isn't taking them seriously, and truly caring for him as non-smokers would.

I'm not advocating getting high and then treating. What I'm saying is that smoking recreationally doesn't make someone a bad person, and doesn't make a doctor a bad doctor. There I said it.

I personally do not smoke pot. I understand the risks since its illegal.

That does not mean I have to hate on premeds that don't live a straight arrow life. If they were abusing harder drugs, or even legal drugs like alcohol, that would be a bigger problem in my book.
 
my PI in undergrad definitely did his share of toking up, as did more than a few of my classmates. I never have, but I don't think it's a big deal, but it IS illegal. Take your own chances. You can lose all your chances at federal financial aid with a drug conviction.
 
There's nothing wrong with getting high. There is something wrong with getting high and getting kicked out of med school b/c you got high. Use your judgement. Mmmk?

Some words of wisdom:

Chef: Children, what did I tell you about doing drugs?
Children: That there's a time and place for everything, and thats college.

And just for fun:

Principle Victoria (during planetarium show): Oh man this is boring.
Some Guy: Yeah, who finds this stuff interesting?
High Teenager 1: Dude, this is totally killer.
High Teenager 2: I hope this goes on for like…7 months.
 
Towelie said:
You sound like a DARE spokesperson.
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HA HA HA HA HA!!! I remember DARE! I had a huge class for it in the 6th grade. I don't use drugs and don't advocate their use, but DARE was pretty silly. The complete irony of the whole program was shown when we had an essay contest in the 6th grade DARE program. The girl who won the contest got to read her essay in front of the whole school, blah, blah, blah.... Well, in high school she ended up being sort of cracked out. Oh the irony...
 
PeripateticMD said:
Hilarious side note. I was talking to my landlord about Chad, and he was like, "so what's up with the ganga-weed?" When he caught his mistake (it's janjawid), he was like, "ummmm... ummm...' but I was already dying of laughter.

Anyway, I guess this is true along with the fact that we've never gotten C's, we've never missed a class, and we've never practiced for the MCAT before we took it and got a 38T.
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This must be stoner humor because I don't get it. Maybe I should get a subscription to High Times?
 
Panda Bear said:
This must be stoner humor because I don't get it. Maybe I should get a subscription to High Times?
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bmnelson.jpg
 
Law2Doc said:
We have a variety of legal means to change bad laws through petition, legislative action, lobbying, writing your congressman and the like.
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the marijuana laws are unlikely to be overturned except by judicial "activism." In our polarized country, status quo is going to be maintained (e.g. marijuana laws, abortion, capital punishment, etc.) in the legislative realm.

sure, you could join NORML and "fight the man," but nothing has changed in the last 30 years in regards to this issue other than some inroads with regards to medicinal use. however, we can all agree that these laws haven't changed behavior in this country, despite the noble spirit of such temperance laws.

the point is: don't get caught, whether it be underage drinking or marijuana smoking or any other action that is a victimless crime that overly conservative and religiously influenced laws have set forth to "protect" us from ourselves.
 
I smoke but there is HUGE difference between pot and "hard" drugs. I'm trying to have fun and enjoy myself before I start med school next year (where i wont even think about smoking) and I dont think there is anything wrong with that and I certaining dont think that because I smoke now I'll somehow become a doctor "feel-good" and give all my patients oxycodone. everyone get off your damn high horse.
 
gah, you people ooze judgement! no wonder people have trouble relating to their physicians....
 
Haven't any of you guys ever been employed in a professional environment before? 😕

Every job I've had in the last 9 years has required a drug screen. I would venture to guess that sobriety is even more critical for performing medical procedures on people than for sitting in a cubicle writing code. 🙄
 
Dianyla said:
Haven't any of you guys ever been employed in a professional environment before? 😕

Every job I've had in the last 9 years has required a drug screen. I would venture to guess that sobriety is even more critical for performing medical procedures on people than for sitting in a cubicle writing code. 🙄
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In Oregon? Wow, that's shocking. Other than government or government-affiliated work here in California, I don't know anyone that gets drug tested in a professional environmnet. And never anyone writing code...
 
notdeadyet said:
In Oregon? Wow, that's shocking. Other than government or government-affiliated work here in California, I don't know anyone that gets drug tested in a professional environmnet. And never anyone writing code...
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Depends on the company... I've had 2 jobs that tested, all the rest have not...

edit: These were not health-care related jobs...
 
notdeadyet said:
In Oregon? Wow, that's shocking. Other than government or government-affiliated work here in California, I don't know anyone that gets drug tested in a professional environmnet. And never anyone writing code...
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Well, I do work for a health system now which is rather conservative. But even the unconventional gigs wanted them too. Basically, the only jobs I've ever worked that didn't require it were of the waitress/clerkship variety. I thought it was like this everywhere. 🙂
 
notarealname222 said:
I am writing to determine if, and at which schools, drug testing for incoming medical students occurs. This post is intended to provide information to the class of 2011. If you are currently a medical student or resident and were drug tested before beginning medical school, there are a quite a few of us (I imagine) who would like to know the specifics, i.e. what kind of test was administered (hair test, urine test, blood test, etc.), what was the timing of the testing and what were the consequences of a positive result.

It would be helpful if responders could please refrain from responding to this post with their opinions on drug use. Thanks!
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We don't get tested for drugs at CCLCM. Well, at least not so far. 😱
 
Shouldn't schools wait until after you've had pharmacology to give you a drug test? That's not fair to give you one before you even start.
 
Dianyla said:
Basically, the only jobs I've ever worked that didn't require it were of the waitress/clerkship variety. I thought it was like this everywhere. 🙂
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You'd lose half the tech industry of California if they implemented drug tests. The only testing I've seen is for folks working for government, healthcare or those that need security clearances.

I always pegged Oregon for as liberal as California on that issue. Go figure...
 
Jack Swift said:
I smoke but there is HUGE difference between pot and "hard" drugs. I'm trying to have fun and enjoy myself before I start med school next year (where i wont even think about smoking) and I dont think there is anything wrong with that and I certaining dont think that because I smoke now I'll somehow become a doctor "feel-good" and give all my patients oxycodone. everyone get off your damn high horse.
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There is no difference if you know what you're doing.

Premeds should be smart enough to read www.erowid.org and figure dosages weak enough of even the worst drugs to keep from being addicted/having permanent damage.
 
Most of the people who responded to the question that I posed, though I had specifically asked them not to, still insisted upon providing us with their opinions on drug use and virtually all assumed, with no supporting information to justify this conclusion, that I am a marijuana user. Thanks! I'm sure you'll all make great doctors someday. To recap here is the information that we have collected so far:

Schools that drug test;
Mt. Sinai/urine
Ohio State/?
WashU/?
LLU/(tobacco-???)

Schools that do not drug test;
Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine

According to AAMC there are 125 accredited allopathic medical schools in the U.S. and 17 accredited medical schools in Canada. Can anyone out there provide any further useful information on which schools drug test and which do not?
 
So back to the OP's actual question...turns out its Ohio law or something to drug test. I'm not sure how this applies to private vs. public, but Toledo and Ohio State both drug test for sure
 
tinypun2 said:
So back to the OP's actual question...turns out its Ohio law or something to drug test. I'm not sure how this applies to private vs. public, but Toledo and Ohio State both drug test for sure
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Really? I'm a student at Toledo and have never been drug tested. Never heard of anyone at our school being drug tested.
 
Hallm_7 said:
Really? I'm a student at Toledo and have never been drug tested. Never heard of anyone at our school being drug tested.
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Yeah, I don't think that's true about it being Ohio law to test med students, unless they do it later like before we go on the wards. 😕
 
It has to be official and it has to be urine
 
Towelie said:
Drug testing for marijuana by medical schools is unnecessarily invasive. Schools don't do background checks for things like alcoholism or psychiatric problems, which would be a far greater risk to patients' lives. A doctor that smokes marijuana recreationally is no greater danger than one who does not smoke at all.
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If you can not stop smoking for the 1-2 weeks before your drug test to get it cleared out of your system, then you are more than just a recreational smoker.

Anyways these things will get sorted out in the end... the ones with the real problems won't get through the first couple years, and if they do, it obviously doesn't affect them enough for anyone to worry about it
 
TexasFool said:
why are you trying to go to medical school if you are a stoner?


I mean can't you clean up? Maybe you used the stuff in the past but how about change your life, turn it around and mature a little.
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assuming everyone who smokes pot is a stoner would be the equivalent to considering all those that drink alcoholics. Anyways last time i checked the long term side effects of pot(health wise) were a lot less significant than those who drink.
As with alcohol, its all about moderation. and the psychological addiction to marijuana is about the same if not less than alcohol. It only becomes detrimental when it is used as an escape...as with alcohol. I think you've been watching too many pharmaceutical company funded drug commercials.


some interesting articles.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_57309.htm

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/122/114805.htm

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm

Even considering this article. http://www.webmd.com/content/article/22/1728_55387.htm

the fact that it also states. "Mittleman tells WebMD the spike in risk quickly decreases after an hour passes. Pot smokers are twice as likely as nonsmokers to have a heart attack one to two hours after lighting up."

Wait...what?
 
notarealname222 said:
Most of the people who responded to the question that I posed, though I had specifically asked them not to, still insisted upon providing us with their opinions on drug use and virtually all assumed, with no supporting information to justify this conclusion, that I am a marijuana user. Thanks! I'm sure you'll all make great doctors someday. To recap here is the information that we have collected so far:

Schools that drug test;
Mt. Sinai/urine
Ohio State/?
WashU/?
LLU/(tobacco-???)

Schools that do not drug test;
Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine

According to AAMC there are 125 accredited allopathic medical schools in the U.S. and 17 accredited medical schools in Canada. Can anyone out there provide any further useful information on which schools drug test and which do not?
Click to expand...

sorry mom. is it ok if i have some ice cream before i go to bed? im so sorry. mommmmmmmy! next time ill be good i swear!
 
What is the big deal about passing a drug test that you know about well in advance? You only need to stop smoking 4-6 weeks before you can pass a urine test...Also, the other drugs that they screen for (cocaine, meth, etc.) have half-lives on the order of days, so there is not much to worry about there. The only way to detect usuage further in the past (and hallucinogens) is through GC-MS of a hair sample which is way too expensive to do on a large group of people. Aren't there any other folks who went to undergrad at Berkeley in this thread?
 
kerplunk112 said:
assuming everyone who smokes pot is a stoner would be the equivalent to considering all those that drink alcoholics. Anyways last time i checked the long term side effects of pot(health wise) were a lot less significant than those who drink.
As with alcohol, its all about moderation. and the psychological addition to marijuana is about the same if not less than alcohol. It only becomes detrimental when it is used as an escape...as with alcohol. I think you've been watching too many pharmaceutical company funded drug commercials.


some interesting articles.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/23/1728_57309.htm

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/122/114805.htm

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/70/80972.htm

Even considering this article. http://www.webmd.com/content/article/22/1728_55387.htm

the fact that it also states. "Mittleman tells WebMD the spike in risk quickly decreases after an hour passes. Pot smokers are twice as likely as nonsmokers to have a heart attack one to two hours after lighting up."

Wait...what?
Click to expand...

Reading all that makes me wanna roll one up myself, but not shovel snow afterward.
 
yea im sure its additive...so your 200x times more likely to get an MI
 
p9142 said:
I think he is trying to say that it is safer to smoke pot than to have sex.
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wait, if you do them both at the same time are you supposed to multiply the probablities of dying?

im confused.

whats worse:

1) eating a 1lb burger, getting drunk, and then having unprotected sex

OR

2) smoking pot

DUH. If 1) was correct school's would test you for that.
 
haha thats another discussion entirely..and i wont go into it..but i know which one will kill you a hell of a lot faster. how is not that one that is worse>?
 
haha thats another discussion entirely..and i wont go into it..but i know which one will kill you a hell of a lot faster. how is it not that one that is worse>? the drug war is simply amusing..especially since recent research shows that the anti drug campaigns actually ended up increasing drug rates among teens.

and p9142, yeah i understood the article. just thought it was interesting that they even published it..since compared to other commonplace activities the increased probability of an MI is negligible.
 
Stolenspatulas said:
wait, if you do them both at the same time are you supposed to multiply the probablities of dying?

im confused.

whats worse:

1) eating a 1lb burger, getting drunk, and then having unprotected sex

OR

2) smoking pot

DUH. If 1) was correct school's would test you for that.
Click to expand...


I think it usually goes number 2, then number 1, then back to number 2.:laugh:
 
I remember reading somewhere that AMCAS was going to start performing background checks on all medical school applicants and then add the results to the applicant's file, rather than having individual schools perform separate, similar checks (all at a fee to the applicant). Perhaps drug testing is going the same direction? Can you imagine having to pee in a cup when you go to take your MCAT?

I recently got a job at VCU Medical Center, and they have mandatory drug testing for all employees. Since medical students are kind of employees of the hospital (at least they are representing the hospital), I would assume that medical schools would require their students to submit to a drug test.

Didn't you have a D.A.R.E. program when you were a kid?
 
Law2Doc said:
Choice #1 sounds like a much more fun way to spend a Saturday night.:laugh:
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it was all fun and games until you have a genital wart growing at your urinary meatus.
 
Law2Doc said:
I agree that safe sex is smarter. I was just commenting that burgers, beer and sex sound a whole lot more fun than getting stoned in your dorm room. But to each his own. Good times.
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i would agree with you.👍
 
tdd340 said:
Not entourage, Dwight said it on The Office after Michael got high at an Alecia Keys concert
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dammit dammit dammit - i thought it was the episode where turtle is competing in the xbox tourny... of well

if you dont know what i am talking about - entourage is on hbo, and if you have the means to watch it, i suggest you do


...but be careful - sometimes they show video of people smoking pot, i know some of you out there might have a heart attack being forced to watch such an attrocity 😛
 
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