Drug testing for Med students

[GatorMedMan]

The University of Florida announced today that they will be requiring drug testing for all rising third year students. The cost of the test will be paid by the student. Testing will begin next month. Does anyone know if a state school can legally implement such a change in policy at the drop of a hat? Thanks for any input.

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[Law2Doc]

The University of Florida announced today that they will be requiring drug testing for all rising third year students. The cost of the test will be paid by the student. Testing will begin next month. Does anyone know if a state school can legally implement such a change in policy at the drop of a hat? Thanks for any input.

Sure - They have a defensible rational basis to do so -- as med students will be working with patients and may be in contact with or assisting to dispense medications - such that this ought to survive any constitutional challenge. Lots of industries currently do drug testing.

 

[Gimlet]

That's pretty weak that they're making the students pay for it, though.

 

[Law2Doc]

That's pretty weak that they're making the students pay for it, though.

You can use the money you make when you unload your stash, I guess.

 

[fun8stuff]

The University of Florida announced today that they will be requiring drug testing for all rising third year students. The cost of the test will be paid by the student. Testing will begin next month. Does anyone know if a state school can legally implement such a change in policy at the drop of a hat? Thanks for any input.

a month to come clean is kind of short notice...

 

[StevenRF]

What a waist of money. How many people actually use hard drugs while in med school? I doubt pot is as pervasive as it is in undergrad. Maybe they are worried about the med students roiding?

I bet this is some kneejerk reaction cause some ******* came into work blazed.

 

[Law2Doc]

I bet this is some kneejerk reaction cause some ******* came into work blazed.

I suspect it happened once and gunshy insurers now are forcing the policy. It was going to happen sooner or later. I guess in Fla its sooner.

 

[JonnyG]

in the fine print at most schools they reserve the right to test you at any time. You should have expected one before rotations because the hospitals test all their regular employees. Granted those tests are free

 

[stoic]

What a waist of money. How many people actually use hard drugs while in med school? I doubt pot is as pervasive as it is in undergrad. Maybe they are worried about the med students roiding?

I bet this is some kneejerk reaction cause some ******* came into work blazed.

you might be surprised by the number of people who still smoke up occasionally once med school starts; i know i was. that said, i don't really know any "stoners" that blaze every single day (who are in med school, anyways).

but smoking weed is illegal, even if it's done "responsibly." so while i disagree with drug testing, i can understand the reasons for doing so before the clinical years... access to patients and meds are a potentially compromising combo for a truly impaired student.

hey, at least they gave the students a month to clean out their systems. as long as they do that, i have no major objections.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

i doubt they are testing for steroids. this test is extremely expensive and even if not a single person in the entire med school is taking, they will be outraged to pay for it.

i don't see it as a major problem. I used to smoke a lot of pot, but now i want to be a doctor. i would hate to see my license yanked for ANY reason.

 

[Law2Doc]

i doubt they are testing for steroids. this test is extremely expensive and even if not a single person in the entire med school is taking, they will be outraged to pay for it.

i don't see it as a major problem. I used to smoke a lot of pot, but now i want to be a doctor. i would hate to see my license yanked for ANY reason.

The steroids comment by that other poster was a joke. Med school books are heavy but not that heavy...

 

[Ypo.]

I would be more concerned about an alcoholic doctor or a doctor that was abusing prescription narcotics FAR MORE than a stoner doc.

Personally, as health professionals, I think we have a greater access to oxytocin than to marijuana. And I think prescription pain killers are more socially acceptable. Too bad they don't test for those.

 

[stoic]

I would be more concerned about an alcoholic doctor or a doctor that was abusing prescription narcotics FAR MORE than a stoner doc.

Personally, as health professionals, I think we have a greater access to oxytocin than to marijuana. And I think prescription pain killers are more socially acceptable. Too bad they don't test for those.

but wouldn't they be testing for opiates as well? i'd assume they'll be doing a standard lab drug screen; should pick up at least amphetamines/cocaine/THC/opiates/pcp (or their metabolites). and possibly benzo's as well, depending on the exact testing sytem used.

i agree, by the way. the thought of a drunk surgeon or surgeon loaded on painkillers scares me A LOT more than a stoned surgeon.

 

[UCSBMed1]

The University of Florida announced today that they will be requiring drug testing for all rising third year students. The cost of the test will be paid by the student. Testing will begin next month. Does anyone know if a state school can legally implement such a change in policy at the drop of a hat? Thanks for any input.

Wow...how scary. They could NEVER do that in California--way too many stoners.

Not that I'd have anything to worry about!

 

[SoCuteMD]

I would be more concerned about an alcoholic doctor or a doctor that was abusing prescription narcotics FAR MORE than a stoner doc.

Personally, as health professionals, I think we have a greater access to oxytocin than to marijuana. And I think prescription pain killers are more socially acceptable. Too bad they don't test for those.

Having a baby, shelley?

 

[UCSBMed1]

Having a baby, shelley?

Yeah I was wondering if anyone else caught that! I'm sure she meant oxycontin.

 

[Ross434]

but wouldn't they be testing for opiates as well? i'd assume they'll be doing a standard lab drug screen; should pick up at least amphetamines/cocaine/THC/opiates/pcp (or their metabolites). and possibly benzo's as well, depending on the exact testing sytem used.

i agree, by the way. the thought of a drunk surgeon or surgeon loaded on painkillers scares me A LOT more than a stoned surgeon.

It's interesting how the standard "nida 5" drug test doesnt test for more "socially accepted drugs" benzos, oxycodone, and hydrocodone arent typically tested for (those arent techincally opiates, they're synthetic)

 

[UCSBMed1]

It's interesting how the standard "nida 5" drug test doesnt test for more "socially accepted drugs" benzos, oxycodone, and hydrocodone arent typically tested for (those arent techincally opiates, they're synthetic)

No they're "opioids."

 

[Psycho Doctor]

The University of Florida announced today that they will be requiring drug testing for all rising third year students. The cost of the test will be paid by the student. Testing will begin next month. Does anyone know if a state school can legally implement such a change in policy at the drop of a hat? Thanks for any input.

worried you won't be clean in time?

 

[StevenRF]

Kumar: [in surgery] Hang on a second, nurse. What we should probably use is marijuana. That'll sufficiently sedate the patient for surgery.
Male Nurse: Marijuana?... But why?
Kumar: We don't have time for questions. We need marijuana now, as much of it as possible! Like a big bag of it.

Maybe I should join NORMAL and then be one the few perscribers of medical marijuana.

 

[Hoo\/er]

The University of Florida announced today that they will be requiring drug testing for all rising third year students. The cost of the test will be paid by the student. Testing will begin next month. Does anyone know if a state school can legally implement such a change in policy at the drop of a hat? Thanks for any input.

Oh Noes! Somebody's been puffin' the ganja!!

 

[stoic]

Maybe I should join NORMAL and then be one the few perscribers of medical marijuana.

or you could just join NORML and work to get some of the ridiculous laws changed.

did you know that methamphetamine and cocaine are schedule II drugs - they can be legitimally prescriped - while marijuana is schedule I and is illegal (federally) under all circumstances?

 

[JonnyG]

or you could just join NORML and work to get some of the ridiculous laws changed.

did you know that methamphetamine and cocaine are schedule II drugs - they can be legitimally prescriped - while marijuana is schedule I and is illegal (federally) under all circumstances?

Actually its illegal now at the state level. The supreme court struck down medical marijuana approved by states.

 

[StevenRF]

Yea the drug laws in this country are bizarre. Took a class on the psychology of drugs taught by Mitch Earlywine who's on the advisement board for NORML. Crazy stuff. He has this rediculous collection of E tabs all with different artwork.
"Remember students. Get a vaporizer." One of the funniest teachers I ever had, and the only teacher I've ever seen who consistantly filled up a 300 person lecture hall to the doors every class.

It's crazy when you learn that most of are drug laws were crated as racist responses toward minorities... pot for mexicans, opiates for asians...but I guess that's the case for most of our laws.

 

[Gimlet]

It's crazy when you learn that most of are drug laws were crated as racist responses toward minorities... pot for mexicans, opiates for asians...but I guess that's the case for most of our laws.

Little known fact: The first speeding law was enacted by people who were racist against Eskimos.

 

[glp]

It's crazy when you learn that most of are drug laws were crated as racist responses toward minorities... pot for mexicans, opiates for asians...but I guess that's the case for most of our laws.

yes and people who are racist against poor white people made meth illegal and people who are racist against rich white people made cocaine illegal.

 

[stoic]

you know, before some of you start asserting that there is no racism in the history of drug laws, you might want to do some research on the topic.

drug laws, particuarly against marijuana and opium were orignially enacted to target specific ethnic groups who were perceived as using the drug exclusively.

 

[Ypo.]

you know, before some of you start asserting that there is no racism in the history of drug laws, you might want to do some research on the topic.

drug laws, particuarly against marijuana and opium were orignially enacted to target specific ethnic groups who were perceived as using the drug exclusively.

Really?????? I'd never heard that before. Can anyone give me some bona fide examples/history?

 

[Ypo.]

yes and people who are racist against poor white people made meth illegal and people who are racist against rich white people made cocaine illegal.

Is that your dog? Cute...

 

[beary]

Personally, as health professionals, I think we have a greater access to oxytocin than to marijuana. And I think prescription pain killers are more socially acceptable. Too bad they don't test for those.

Boy, this doesn't seem so to me. Oxycontin and other narcotics are kept under lock and key, you have to account for every bit used, wasting has to be witnessed, etc. I don't know where a health professional would be able to get oxycontin.

 

[stoic]

Boy, this doesn't seem so to me. Oxycontin and other narcotics are kept under lock and key, you have to account for every bit used, wasting has to be witnessed, etc. I don't know where a health professional would be able to get oxycontin.

are you kidding? pixis? stealing it from unit doses? from the OR? this stuff doesn't go unnoticed - it is definately noticed. but it still happens (on an unfortunately regular basis), and usually, the offender is caught. and almost always the offender has a drug problem - it might seem crazy that people would steal narcotics in the healthcare setting, but we're not addicts. yes, health care professionals do have much greater access to powerful drugs and sometimes it's a problem.

 

[stoic]

Really?????? I'd never heard that before. Can anyone give me some bona fide examples/history?

i'll post some info in this thread later today. stay tuned!

 

[Ypo.]

i'll post some info in this thread later today. stay tuned!

Looking forward to it.

 

[beary]

The History Channel had a really interesting series on recently about the history of illegal drugs. It was really interesting. I don't remember too much about it, but do remember that opium dens were most prevalent in the Asian community and that was the impetus for the laws outlawing opium. I can't remember too much about the other drugs though, but cocaine and morphine used to be in basically everything that Americans took for anything!

 

[StevenRF]

Check out this site. One of the first hits on a general search
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm

Basically it goes something like this.

The southwest hated the mexicans. The northeast started believing in the whole gateway drug b.s. The mormons controlled utah and couldn't "save" the mexicans.

So they created the marijuana tax act. The AMA said there was no evidence that marijuana did the whole refer madness thing. But as usual, none of the congress members had any clue on what they were voting on, and all it took was one liar to say the AMA supported it.

Then Anslinger said all the jazz musicians were potheads so he could get more agents during a senate hearing. Fastforward a decade later and now its the commies spreading pot. Then it became the mob.

Drug schedules came and the war on drugs followed.

 

[Hoya11]

Check out this site. One of the first hits on a general search
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm

Basically it goes something like this.

The southwest hated the mexicans. The northeast started believing in the whole gateway drug b.s. The mormons controlled utah and couldn't "save" the mexicans.

So they created the marijuana tax act. The AMA said there was no evidence that marijuana did the whole refer madness thing. But as usual, none of the congress members had any clue on what they were voting on, and all it took was one liar to say the AMA supported it.

Then Anslinger said all the jazz musicians were potheads so he could get more agents during a senate hearing. Fastforward a decade later and now its the commies spreading pot. Then it became the mob.

Drug schedules came and the war on drugs followed.

I am worried about testing too
How can you find out if your school tests?

 

[stoic]

I am worried about testing too
How can you find out if your school tests?

ask upperclassmen.

however, this is a relatively new phenomenon. i think more and more school are going to be implimenting testing programs before 3rd year as a result of new requirements for screening any person who has patient contact in hospitals. in 10 years it will probably be the norm.

so you'll have to wait until after finishing residency to start smoking weed again. that's my plan, anyway.


ps. sorry i didn't post any info about the history of drug laws. i'm swamped with an up-coming neuroscience exam and since stevenRF basically posted the same info i would have, i didn't add anything.

dave

 

[Law2Doc]

in 10 years it will probably be the norm.

It will be a lot sooner than 10 years. Insurance companies are pushing for this as it takes one avenue of liability off the table -- it's just good risk management for them. I'm actually surprised it hasn't occurred sooner. Pharmaceutical industry employees (even those not in manufacturing) have been tested for years, and many of them have far less access to medications than a med student on rotations. Time to warm up your cups, people.

 

[drdiana2010]

Check out this site. One of the first hits on a general search
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm

Basically it goes something like this.

The southwest hated the mexicans. The northeast started believing in the whole gateway drug b.s. The mormons controlled utah and couldn't "save" the mexicans.

So they created the marijuana tax act. The AMA said there was no evidence that marijuana did the whole refer madness thing. But as usual, none of the congress members had any clue on what they were voting on, and all it took was one liar to say the AMA supported it.

Then Anslinger said all the jazz musicians were potheads so he could get more agents during a senate hearing. Fastforward a decade later and now its the commies spreading pot. Then it became the mob.

Drug schedules came and the war on drugs followed.

... just because something is a social evil, and it is tied by a racist lobbying group to a group of people (who were probably viewed as potentially threatening mainstream america with spreading drug use), does that take away the fact that drugs are a social evil?

 

[stoic]

... just because something is a social evil, and it is tied by a racist lobbying group to a group of people (who were probably viewed as potentially threatening mainstream america with spreading drug use), does that take away the fact that drugs are a social evil?

the social "evil" was non-white's integrating into society, taking white jobs, and changing white values. the drugs laws provided a convient to turn entire groups of people into criminals and, therefore, undesirables by creating an exagerated sterotype. don't forget that all the while white people all over the country were getting drunk, beating their wifes, wrecking their cars, and neglecting their families. yet somehow what was focused on was the danger of black men using reefer to seduce white women give into their animalistic sexual appetites.

it's a disgrace that we continue to support these laws - particuarly marijuana laws - that provide essentially no benifit to society while there is a liquor store on every street corner.