Drug Testing?

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Just a clarification for everyone..yes my user name makes it seem like I smoke all the time, this a fake account to protect my identity a little which was obviously needed apparently.
The reason I asked is not because I plan on smoke while I'm in school or practicing (though I honestly think both are fine as long as you are responsible about it) I am asking so that I DON'T ruin my admissions, get kicked out of school or anything like that. I'm about to start 4 very tough years so I might as well enjoy my summer before school starts. My friend goes to PA school and knows people in other programs who had to submit urine BEFORE they could be accepted. I just wanted to make sure vet school doesn't have the same policies, so that I don't jeopardize my future. Seems like they don't and its only really an issue if I am smoking while in school and get caught.

As previously stated weed can stay in your system for months and as of right now there is no way of testing if you smoked months ago or the morning of.

As a general question why are people so ok with drinking and not smoking? Just because of legal reasons?

@wheelin2vetmed and @WhtsThFrequency you're awesome!
 
mj420 said:
Just a clarification for everyone..yes my user name makes it seem like I smoke all the time, this a fake account to protect my identity a little which was obviously needed apparently.
The reason I asked is not because I plan on smoke while I'm in school or practicing (though I honestly think both are fine as long as you are responsible about it) I am asking so that I DON'T ruin my admissions, get kicked out of school or anything like that. I'm about to start 4 very tough years so I might as well enjoy my summer before school starts. My friend goes to PA school and knows people in other programs who had to submit urine BEFORE they could be accepted. I just wanted to make sure vet school doesn't have the same policies, so that I don't jeopardize my future. Seems like they don't and its only really an issue if I am smoking while in school and get caught.

As previously stated weed can stay in your system for months and as of right now there is no way of testing if you smoked months ago or the morning of.

As a general question why are people so ok with drinking and not smoking? Just because of legal reasons?

@wheelin2vetmed and @WhtsThFrequency you're awesome!
Click to expand...

I can't think of any other reasons. Honestly, I feel that if alcohol is legal, weed should be too. Alcohol kills SO many people, whether it be from long term drinking and liver problems, to drunk driving, to whatever else there is... I've never heard of someone dying from weed. But I don't drink or smoke (yeah, I'm boring AF), so I can't say for sure 😛 It's just a matter of time before it's legal everywhere in the states IMO. But I still don't think it would be appropriate to be high (or drunk for that matter) on the job or in class.
 
hazelmoo said:
I can't think of any other reasons. Honestly, I feel that if alcohol is legal, weed should be too. Alcohol kills SO many people, whether it be from long term drinking and liver problems, to drunk driving, to whatever else there is... I've never heard of someone dying from weed. But I don't drink or smoke (yeah, I'm boring AF), so I can't say for sure 😛 It's just a matter of time before it's legal everywhere in the states IMO. But I still don't think it would be appropriate to be high (or drunk for that matter) on the job or in class.
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So you just spelled out the main issue I have with the way marijuana is viewed, that it's 'safer' than alcohol. Marijuana can seriously affect your reflexes, thinking, etc. Just like with alcohol, you can be a varying level of high and be more or less impaired. Some numbers: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/06/09/marijuana-accidents/10219119/ If you're going to smoke or drink, just don't drive. It's not that hard.

I've seen high kids walk into traffic and not even realize that cars had to slam to a stop until a few seconds after the fact. I've interacted with people who said they were high, but you wouldn't have known otherwise. The same goes for alcohol. Just because a person isn't slurring their words or acting 'high' doesn't mean they are safe behind a wheel.
 
mj420 said:
As a general question why are people so ok with drinking and not smoking? Just because of legal reasons?
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Culture wars, mostly. Marijuana wasn't illegal until it was associated with specific racial/immigrant groups and turned into a prohibited substance that could be used to control and punish those minorities who were viewed as a threat to the dominant culture. The history of marijuana prohibition is well documented and full of blatant racist bull****tery.
 
mj420 said:
Just a clarification for everyone..yes my user name makes it seem like I smoke all the time, this a fake account to protect my identity a little which was obviously needed apparently.
The reason I asked is not because I plan on smoke while I'm in school or practicing (though I honestly think both are fine as long as you are responsible about it) I am asking so that I DON'T ruin my admissions, get kicked out of school or anything like that. I'm about to start 4 very tough years so I might as well enjoy my summer before school starts. My friend goes to PA school and knows people in other programs who had to submit urine BEFORE they could be accepted. I just wanted to make sure vet school doesn't have the same policies, so that I don't jeopardize my future. Seems like they don't and its only really an issue if I am smoking while in school and get caught.

As previously stated weed can stay in your system for months and as of right now there is no way of testing if you smoked months ago or the morning of.

As a general question why are people so ok with drinking and not smoking? Just because of legal reasons?

@wheelin2vetmed and @WhtsThFrequency you're awesome!
Click to expand...

I never had to pee in any cups.

I know vet students that smoked all the time. Never mattered. Just don't be a ******* (much like with anything else) and one would expect you to be fine. $0.02 though.
 
mj420 said:
As previously stated weed can stay in your system for months and as of right now there is no way of testing if you smoked months ago or the morning of.
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I mean, no, not really. Only if you are a heavy chronic smoker will it stay in your system that long, and even if you are a chronic smoker that is still a really rare scenario. And, as for the latter... There kind of is - just by concentration. It's just that the threshold is set at a specific concentration.
 
mj420 said:
As a general question why are people so ok with drinking and not smoking? Just because of legal reasons?
Click to expand...

Someone sits next to me and drinks a beer, doesn't have any effect on me. At all. Someone sits next to me and smokes (regardless of what they are smoking), I cough, gag, my nose reacts, my eyes react, my chest gets tight, etc. That doesn't even touch upon the second hand smoke issues in which research is showing marijuana giving off many of the same carcinogens as tobacco smoking.

Now, I've never understood the point in having more than a drink or two and honestly I think people should be cut off after at most 2-3 drinks. There is no need for more. I get that someone could get drunk, get behind the wheel and kill me.

The difference I see is that a person having one or two beers next to me in a restaurant has zero impact on me.

The person smoking in public next to me does. Their smoking doesn't only affect them, even one joint has an impact on everyone around that one person. Unlike one beer.
 
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I think there's also the consideration that you can drink without being impaired, but you can't really do that with weed. If you aren't high then you might as well not do it, while many people just like drinking but never drink to the point where they're drunk.
 
Doktor Timo said:
I think there's also the consideration that you can drink without being impaired, but you can't really do that with weed. If you aren't high then you might as well not do it, while many people just like drinking but never drink to the point where they're drunk.
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There is research that suggests BAC as low as 0.03% (that's like one or two drinks for the majority of people) is still associated with considerable impairment in tasks like driving. That's why public health groups recommend you not drink any alcohol if you're going to drive. Cognitive impairment begins long before you're legally and visibly drunk.
 
Jess Monster said:
Culture wars, mostly. Marijuana wasn't illegal until it was associated with specific racial/immigrant groups and turned into a prohibited substance that could be used to control and punish those minorities who were viewed as a threat to the dominant culture. The history of marijuana prohibition is well documented and full of blatant racist bull****tery.
Click to expand...


Harry Anslinger, first commissioner of Federal Bureau of Narcotics and the father of the war against marijuana:
“There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the U.S., and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others.”
Click to expand...

...and my other favorite obscenely racist quote from him
“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”
Click to expand...
 
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pinkpuppy9 said:
So you just spelled out the main issue I have with the way marijuana is viewed, that it's 'safer' than alcohol. Marijuana can seriously affect your reflexes, thinking, etc. Just like with alcohol, you can be a varying level of high and be more or less impaired. Some numbers: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/06/09/marijuana-accidents/10219119/ If you're going to smoke or drink, just don't drive. It's not that hard.

I've seen high kids walk into traffic and not even realize that cars had to slam to a stop until a few seconds after the fact. I've interacted with people who said they were high, but you wouldn't have known otherwise. The same goes for alcohol. Just because a person isn't slurring their words or acting 'high' doesn't mean they are safe behind a wheel.
Click to expand...

Aside from using a substances and then driving, marijuana IS safer than alcohol. Take it from someone who has a lot of experience firsthand with what chronic alcohol use can do to people's bodies. You don't see people dying from weed overdose, having their livers fail, or getting violent from smoking a bowl and beating the **** out of people (or if you do it is a bizarre and uncommon reaction). Is it still a substance? Absolutely. But it is most definitely not as harmful as alcohol.

I say this as someone who doesn't even like weed. But I dislike stereotypes even more.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Aside from using a substances and then driving, marijuana IS safer than alcohol. Take it from someone who has a lot of experience firsthand with what chronic alcohol use can do to people's bodies. You don't see people dying from weed overdose, having their livers fail, or getting violent from smoking a bowl and beating the **** out of people (or if you do it is a bizarre and uncommon reaction). Is it still a substance? Absolutely. But it is most definitely not as harmful as alcohol.

I say this as someone who doesn't even like weed. But I dislike stereotypes even more.
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Agree with this 100%
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Aside from using a substances and then driving, marijuana IS safer than alcohol. Take it from someone who has a lot of experience firsthand with what chronic alcohol use can do to people's bodies. You don't see people dying from weed overdose, having their livers fail, or getting violent from smoking a bowl and beating the **** out of people (or if you do it is a bizarre and uncommon reaction). Is it still a substance? Absolutely. But it is most definitely not as harmful as alcohol.

I say this as someone who doesn't even like weed. But I dislike stereotypes even more.
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I'm not stereotyping anyone. Merely disagreeing with the idea that weed is safer than alcohol. And I still disagree.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
I'm not stereotyping anyone. Merely disagreeing with the idea that weed is safer than alcohol. And I still disagree.
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It is safer. Just do some fact-based research.

Think about all the risks with alcohol. Just because people tend to take less of it doesn't mean it's inherently safer. The legality issue is really because the prohibition was such a cluster. (FWIW I have not and will probably not ever do marijuana, but really...prohibition of alcohol didn't work so they tried it on a larger scale with many drugs?)

People take a ton of tylenol, too. There are many, many drugs that are much safer.

Risks:
-impairment
-liver damage
-addiction
-acute alcohol poisoning
-depression
-etc.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
I'm not stereotyping anyone. Merely disagreeing with the idea that weed is safer than alcohol. And I still disagree.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that you specifically were stereotyping; more explaining why I'm even involved in this thread given that I don't smoke weed and I don't even like it. I've exceptionally sensitive to certain types of sedating substances so it's no fun for me at all.
 
dyachei said:
It is safer. Just do some fact-based research.

Think about all the risks with alcohol. Just because people tend to take less of it doesn't mean it's inherently safer. The legality issue is really because the prohibition was such a cluster. (FWIW I have not and will probably not ever do marijuana, but really...prohibition of alcohol didn't work so they tried it on a larger scale with many drugs?)

People take a ton of tylenol, too. There are many, many drugs that are much safer.

Risks:
-impairment
-liver damage
-addiction
-acute alcohol poisoning
-depression
-etc.
Click to expand...

I would argue that people drink a LOT more alcohol than weed if you are comparing incident to incident. Most people really can't and don't smoke that much anymore after they're already high. A single joint is more than enough. Or if you try, you just fall asleep.

But people (especially people in a school environment) can and do go waay passed "buzzed" and will drink obscene amounts and black out, puke, fight, overdose, get arrested, etc all the time. The worst you're going to do if you smoke too much is probably eat a pizza and make some dumb purchase off of Amazon, compared to the **** people get into when they drink too much.
 
twelvetigers said:
DRUGS ARE BAD. ONLY LOSERS DO DRUGS. JUST SAY NO. D.A.R.E. TO RESIST DRUGS AND VIOLENCE!

What a crap program. I think a lot of us grew up in the heart of it, and it didn't even work - if anything it made it worse.

http://www.livescience.com/33795-effective.html



Oops.
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But they had a super catchy song, so that's something, right? "D - I won't do drugs, A - won't have an attitude, R - I will respect myself, E - I will educate me nowwwww!" Anyone else remember that song from elementary school?

ETA: Of course it's on YouTube:
 
There are a whole lot of people up in this thread that have clearly stayed on the straight and narrow and have never experimented with anything (and shame on anyone who does, it's illegal, etc.)... I suppose it doesn't surprise me. I mean, SDN attracts a specific sort of person, as well.

I guess what I'm saying is that, by and large, we are a buncha goody-goodies.

And I'm not necessarily excluding myself, either. Just observing.
 
It's just policy and this perpetual war on a substance that's led us to where we are today.

From a toxicological perspective, alcohol and marijuana are so different, it's not even funny. From the angle of addiction, sure, you can abuse weed, but you can also abuse sex, eating, working out, other substances, etc, etc. But you will not kill yourself from an overdose on marijuana.

It's been a prolonged attempt at another prohibition. And as a result, it's created a dangerous black market, bolstered mass incarceration, and led people to believe things that are patently false.

Our grandchildren will look back at this in the history books and laugh. Tax it, create policy that keeps young children from getting it, administer well designed tests to confirm if someone is on it at the moment for law enforcement or the work place, and call it a day.
 
DVMDream said:
Someone sits next to me and drinks a beer, doesn't have any effect on me. At all. Someone sits next to me and smokes (regardless of what they are smoking), I cough, gag, my nose reacts, my eyes react, my chest gets tight, etc. That doesn't even touch upon the second hand smoke issues in which research is showing marijuana giving off many of the same carcinogens as tobacco smoking.
Click to expand...
Quoted for truth. You can drink all you want or eat all the pot brownies you want and as long as you don't start falling on me, you're probably not affecting me. But I can't deal with smoke, whether tobacco or marijuana.
 
wheelin2vetmed said:
Our grandchildren will look back at this in the history books and laugh. Tax it, create policy that keeps young children from getting it, administer well designed tests to confirm if someone is on it at the moment for law enforcement or the work place, and call it a day.
Click to expand...
This is basically where Canada is right now. We're currently developing a policy for legalization to start next year, which apparently is going to put us in violation of a bunch of international treaties...
 
wheelin2vetmed said:
It's just policy and this perpetual war on a substance that's led us to where we are today.

From a toxicological perspective, alcohol and marijuana are so different, it's not even funny. From the angle of addiction, sure, you can abuse weed, but you can also abuse sex, eating, working out, other substances, etc, etc. But you will not kill yourself from an overdose on marijuana.

It's been a prolonged attempt at another prohibition. And as a result, it's created a dangerous black market, bolstered mass incarceration, and led people to believe things that are patently false.

Our grandchildren will look back at this in the history books and laugh. Tax it, create policy that keeps young children from getting it, administer well designed tests to confirm if someone is on it at the moment for law enforcement or the work place, and call it a day.
Click to expand...
I had a friend OD, actually, on edibles. He ended up in the hospital. It's far easier to do on edibles than by smoking.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
I would argue that people drink a LOT more alcohol than weed if you are comparing incident to incident. Most people really can't and don't smoke that much anymore after they're already high. A single joint is more than enough. Or if you try, you just fall asleep.

But people (especially people in a school environment) can and do go waay passed "buzzed" and will drink obscene amounts and black out, puke, fight, overdose, get arrested, etc all the time. The worst you're going to do if you smoke too much is probably eat a pizza and make some dumb purchase off of Amazon, compared to the **** people get into when they drink too much.
Click to expand...
on a day to day basis, some people will overdo, but many will have a drink or two. That's all I meant.
 
I think it will be hard to say which is safer in the long run until we have better studies looking at the long term neurologic effects of chronic weed use, especially in people who start using at a young age. The research just isn't very comprehensive yet. Right now it looks like weed is safer because we know a lot about the consequences of abusing alcohol, especially in the short term. But at the same time, we also know that long-term moderate alcohol use can actually have a lot of health benefits. So really the question that needs to be answered is what are the long-term consequences of moderate weed use.
 
twelvetigers said:
There are a whole lot of people up in this thread that have clearly stayed on the straight and narrow and have never experimented with anything (and shame on anyone who does, it's illegal, etc.)... I suppose it doesn't surprise me. I mean, SDN attracts a specific sort of person, as well.

I guess what I'm saying is that, by and large, we are a buncha goody-goodies.
Click to expand...

Or, you just watched drugs destroy the **** out of a family member and was regularly abused by her while she was high. Yeah, I have an opinion on drugs because of that experience.

But, yeah, I get it we're all a bunch of goodie-goodies, myself included.
 
DVMDream said:
Or, you just watched drugs destroy the **** out of a family member and was regularly abused by her while she was high. Yeah, I have an opinion on drugs because of that experience.

But, yeah, I get it we're all a bunch of goodie-goodies, myself included.
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Hey, you are allowed to feel how you feel, and have great reasons to do so.

But you're still a goody-goody. 😉
 
DVMDream said:
Or, you just watched drugs destroy the **** out of a family member and was regularly abused by her while she was high. Yeah, I have an opinion on drugs because of that experience.

But, yeah, I get it we're all a bunch of goodie-goodies, myself included.
Click to expand...

I watched alcohol destroy the **** out a family member and almost destroy the **** out of myself, so I'm probably biased to the other side. That being said, the times I see marijuana being an issue, it is usually in concert with other drugs and other addictions - it is rarely a singular thing whereas alcohol can definitely be so. Hence why I consider the latter much more of a problem and much more easily abused and dangerous.

Lol. Who y'all calling goody goody.
 
dyachei said:
I had a friend OD, actually, on edibles. He ended up in the hospital. It's far easier to do on edibles than by smoking.
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But what did that entail? Monitoring his vitals and letting him know the boogie monster under his hospital bed wasn't trying to steal his magic marbles?

If he was in really bad shape for alcohol poisoning, that hospital visit wound have been a lot different.
 
My favourite uncle OD'd after a long history of substance abuse, starting with alcohol and marijuana as a teenager. In and out of prison, rehab, left three kids <10y behind when he died. My family also has quite a few alcoholics (and it's something I think about every single time I consider getting a drink when I'm upset). I still think - like with alcohol - there are ways to be responsible with most drugs and the criminalization causes more problems than it solves.

And full disclosure - I am the goody goody of my group of friends, and get (good-natured) **** for it fairly regularly.
 
wheelin2vetmed said:
But what did that entail? Monitoring his vitals and letting him know the boogie monster under his hospital bed wasn't trying to steal his magic marbles?

If he was in really bad shape for alcohol poisoning, that hospital visit wound have been a lot different.
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He ended up with a concussion as part of it. But yes, mostly monitoring.

ETA: you do realize I mostly agree with you, right?
 
Trilt said:
My favourite uncle OD'd after a long history of substance abuse, starting with alcohol and marijuana as a teenager. In and out of prison, rehab, left three kids <10y behind when he died. My family also has quite a few alcoholics (and it's something I think about every single time I consider getting a drink when I'm upset). I still think - like with alcohol - there are ways to be responsible with most drugs and the criminalization causes more problems than it solves.

And full disclosure - I am the goody goody of my group of friends, and get (good-natured) **** for it fairly regularly.
Click to expand...

Same. I don't drink when I'm upset or in any sort of negative mood. Plenty of alcoholism to go around in the family and grandpa had a heart attack/coma from his alcoholism and the subsequent forced withdrawals while in the hospital. He was only 55 and it was a huge impact on 7 year old me. Didn't drink until after I was 21 and never kept alcohol in my room at college. But that was more because I was goody two shoes RA and didn't want to be a hypocrite.
 
I personally am not a fan of any kind of substance. It can be alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs. My aunt was killed the same year I was born while she was stationed in Scotland because her cab driver was drunk. I have an alcoholic uncle on the other side of the family that nearly destroyed everything in his life because of it. My grandfather, who I was very close to, died of lung cancer when I was 10 because he smoked most of his life. He fought for 2 years, but every time they thought they got all of it, they found another mass a month or so later. I also had a neighbor as a kid who died from lung cancer but he refused to stop smoking. He was a very sweet old man that my friends and I would visit. Weed I can't stand mainly because the smell gives me a splitting headache. I have neighbors right now that smoke it and when the smell filters into my bathroom, I can't even go in there until it clears. I just don't find any of the benefits worth all the risks you take with any of them. That's my 2 cents.
 
Often times the "benefits" are intangible. Psychological, and some would argue even emotional. A dependence on a substance is a relationship, and we all know how difficult it can be to get out of a bad relationship. It is something that is always there for you, something you can always turn to. Often, it is a way to "interact" with something and have unconditional acceptance - which is especially precious to people who have difficulty interacting with others or making true interpersonal connections (which in this day and age, seems to be getting harder and harder in some ways). So much about addiction is about trying to make connections, or trying to fill in the gap caused by a lack of connections. It's not an excuse, but it's an explanation.
 
WhtsThFrequency said:
Often times the "benefits" are intangible. Psychological, and some would argue even emotional. A dependence on a substance is a relationship, and we all know how difficult it can be to get out of a bad relationship. It is something that is always there for you, something you can always turn to. Often, it is a way to "interact" with something and have unconditional acceptance - which is especially precious to people who have difficulty interacting with others or making true interpersonal connections (which in this day and age, seems to be getting harder and harder in some ways). So much about addiction is about trying to make connections, or trying to fill in the gap caused by a lack of connections. It's not an excuse, but it's an explanation.
Click to expand...

Amen. I miss that bedtime cigarette still and it's been 2 years since I last had one.
 
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