Drug Testing?

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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dyachei said:
The problem is the DEA being a federal agency. Again, if you want to take the risk, that's your call. But the DEA can make your life harder by not allowing you access to controlled drugs due to drug charges (of course this depends on if you get caught or not).
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And state licensing boards might determine that a drug charge is grounds for revoking your license. Especially if you are drug tested when an error occurs while practicing. Not including any lawsuit that could follow by the owners.

I mean, if people want to risk it simply for a high, that's their choice. But, again, life isn't fair, these are the current rules we have. Either pick to follow them, or face the consequences.
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cdoconn said:
I meant. DEA aside. I think that it's safe to assume that it will be federally legal eventually. So I meant that as long as what they're doing is not illegal (in general), I wouldn't have an issue working with a doctor, or sending my children to a daycare that smokes in their free time.
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I mean, that depends on what you define free time as. I generally don't want smokers (of even cigarettes) near animals or kids due to health concerns. But if they smoke during their breaks, that is an issue.

But regardless, until it is legal (which may be decades), I personally wouldn't take the chance. My license and DEA license are worth more than the potential fun of getting high.
 
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DVMDream said:
And state licensing boards might determine that a drug charge is grounds for revoking your license. Especially if you are drug tested when an error occurs while practicing. Not including any lawsuit that could follow by the owners.

I mean, if people want to risk it simply for a high, that's their choice. But, again, life isn't fair, these are the current rules we have. Either pick to follow them, or face the consequences.
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I have to say I agree with DVMD. It may become legal in the future, sure, but there needs to be a way to test for it in the moment to determine impairment (like with drunk driving).
 
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"Sir, your piss test show's you're above the legal limit of marijuana. Please step out of the office."
 
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dyachei said:
In the words of my mom "life's a bitch and then you die." It sucks that life isn't always fair, but that's the way these things go. Until they figure out a new solution.
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To keep things as relevant as possible, the stoner motto is "life's a bitch and then you die, so **** the world and let's get high." ;)
 
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PreVetMed said:
Is this a serious post and question? Am I back in high school? I just think of smoking pot as so juvenile. Not to disrespect or judge anyone here but, this is adult life now. We're becoming doctors and are responsible for animal's lives now. We are to be respected and trusted in this field by clients to take care of their babies. Would I leave my human child at daycare with a person that smoked weed? Um no thanks. I also like how they wrote, "I live in Colorado so though I'm not a huge stoner if I was tested tomorrow I would not pass". Your user name has 420 in it..... Oh right, but you're not a huge stoner..my mistake. You obviously smoke enough to to create a 420 based username to specifically ask this question.
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Ironically, this is one of the most juvenile posts I've seen on here in a while.
 
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Even in the states where marijuana is legal, it seems to go against the honor code in some way. A clause in CSU's honor code states, "Each student shall not engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, misrepresentation, or illegal conduct involving moral turpitude, while involved in veterinary-related activities sanctioned by Colorado State University." Which basically says to me that if you're doing something with the school, you better not be doing anything that could be remotely sketchy. It also says something about tying into the school wide honor code (The Code of Honor will work in conjunction with CSU policies outlined by the Division of Student Affairs Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook; however, as members of the profession of veterinary medicine DVM students will be held to higher standards), which does state that marijuana use will not be tolerated.

So, better safe than sorry, really, and not risk it.
 
hmm.
wheelin2vetmed said:
Then you proceed to disrespect and judge. Obviously, you don't like marijuana, but you do realize it's legal in many states now and probably will be at the federal level in our lifetimes.

If someone does their job and wants to go home in the evening and puff a little joint rather than have a glass of wine, I sure don't give a ****.
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agreed.
When I was "young" I may have been more judgemental... then I moved to Calif. :laugh:
 
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batsenecal said:
Even in the states where marijuana is legal, it seems to go against the honor code in some way. A clause in CSU's honor code states, "Each student shall not engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, misrepresentation, or illegal conduct involving moral turpitude, while involved in veterinary-related activities sanctioned by Colorado State University."
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Unrelated, but turpitude is such a great word. It sounds old-school in an almost biblical way, and even the definition of it when you look it up on google is cool: "depravity; wickedness".

Don't be depraved and wicked, kids. Stay clean. :thumbup:
 
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Aside from sacrificing your job, remember you still have to buy federally illegal drugs in sketchy ways. And people suck sometimes and can lace said "legal" drugs with things that are really illegal. And you would never know the difference. I've seem friends get kicked off of collegiate teams this way.
 
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cdoconn said:
Yeah I agree. As long as 1) you're not either drunk or high at work (or while on call), and 2) it doesn't affect your performance, I don't see what's wrong with it, especially if they're in a legal state


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At the same time, one would be inclined to say that drug use (or even more than the occasional, responsible drinking) doesn't exactly align with the reputation of a medical professional even if it doesn't affect you the next day. If I knew my doctor or veterinarian had a drinking problem or used drugs, I'd have a hard time trusting their medical opinion. It can affect your credibility.

Really though, as a veterinarian or any medical professional, you 'risk' being seen by clients everywhere outside of your home/office. Blowing off steam at a bar can get people talking, especially in a small town. I just wouldn't want to risk my reputation/DEA license over something so trivial. If someone feels the need to use alcohol or drugs to relax, it tells me there could be bigger issues at hand too. It's just not worth it.
 
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pinkpuppy9 said:
At the same time, one would be inclined to say that drug use (or even more than the occasional, responsible drinking) doesn't exactly align with the reputation of a medical professional even if it doesn't affect you the next day. If I knew my doctor or veterinarian had a drinking problem or used drugs, I'd have a hard time trusting their medical opinion. It can affect your credibility.

Really though, as a veterinarian or any medical professional, you 'risk' being seen by clients everywhere outside of your home/office. Blowing off steam at a bar can get people talking, especially in a small town. I just wouldn't want to risk my reputation/DEA license over something so trivial. If someone feels the need to use alcohol or drugs to relax, it tells me there could be bigger issues at hand too. It's just not worth it.
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I don't NEED to drink to have fun, it just helps. As for the cocaine, I'm not addicted, I just like the smell ;)

Other than the legal risk I don't get why people lump alcohol so separately from drugs just because the government says one is okay. Both can be fun, both can destroy you. Neither is good in excess, but if I had to pick I'd probably rather have a stoner doctor than a drunk one.
 
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Frozenshades said:
I don't NEED to drink to have fun, it just helps. As for the cocaine, I'm not addicted, I just like the smell ;)

Other than the legal risk I don't get why people lump alcohol so separately from drugs just because the government says one is okay. Both can be fun, both can destroy you. Neither is good in excess, but if I had to pick I'd probably rather have a stoner doctor than a drunk one.
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I specified it separately to show that I consider alcohol specifically as a substance that one should be careful with. If you feel the need to smoke week or drink in excess, go ahead. And you being able to trust a stoner doctor is fine, but I'm willing to bet that ideal is not shared by the general public. Of course, they might not always know, but still. I wouldn't be comfortable trusting my pet or myself with a doctor that does drugs. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened already, but there's a certain trust there where you'd hope you weren't receiving medical services from someone who uses brain-altering substances at home.
 
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Frozenshades said:
I don't NEED to drink to have fun, it just helps. As for the cocaine, I'm not addicted, I just like the smell ;)

Other than the legal risk I don't get why people lump alcohol so separately from drugs just because the government says one is okay. Both can be fun, both can destroy you. Neither is good in excess, but if I had to pick I'd probably rather have a stoner doctor than a drunk one.
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Honestly? I personally think pot is probably better for you than alcohol. But it doesn't change the legal risk. And both carry some risk of addiction.
 
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DVMDream said:
I'd be dropping the habit of illegal drug use (in most states) rather quick. One slip up as a vet that ends in needing you to be drug tested or even random drug testing at a place of employment once you graduate can ruin your career.

I worked for a place that had you drug tested anytime a bite sent you to urgent care.

I'd be more concerned with drug use post graduation, but during school can also ruin your career.
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Yeah, it's a pretty common policy in physical jobs in the places I've lived. Any accident results in a drug test.

My old hospital didn't test unless someone was suspected of using, but the company I work for now does during the pre-employment process and then randomly. If there's an incident or suspicion, everyone gets tested. During random testing, they can select anyone, including the doctors. If someone doesn't want to give up a habit, they need to be careful to look for an employer who doesn't test.

Between these two hospitals, I've seen one person fired for being drunk on the job (confirmed by breathalyzer), another for pot, and a third for pot and a possible opiate positive. And I think one of the reasons they've been taking it more seriously is the growing problem with theft of controlled drugs. I'm not suggesting that smoking pot makes people steal midaz and ketamine (it doesn't!), but employers are limited in what they can do to keep things under control.

DVMDream said:
Which means, don't do it until there have been established guidelines as to what levels cause impairment vs. what levels don't.
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Right, that's one of the problems. There's no guideline to define impairment like there is with alcohol. If someone pops on a simple pee test, all you know is that they used pot at some point fairly recently. It could've been that morning or it could've been two days ago, and all you have is that person's word to go on. No employer or school is going to just take someone's word for it if they consider drug use on the job to be a violation of policy. The only thing that would really change the way it works is a cheap, quick test that measures precisely how much THC you have in your system and a guideline that tells you approximately what that means as to how impaired someone is.

dyachei said:
But regardless, until it is legal (which may be decades), I personally wouldn't take the chance. My license and DEA license are worth more than the potential fun of getting high.
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Even if/when it becomes legal, there's no telling whether any specific agency or school or employer's policy is going to change.

As for the DEA license, have they become stricter in recent years? A coworker of mine once worked with a doctor who got caught dealing ketamine. We looked him up on the state licensing board's website, since they listed charges, disciplinary actions, etc. as a matter of public record. It was about 10 years ago now, and he merely had his license suspended. I found it pretty shocking that they didn't revoke it out right. He was literally dealing drugs. Was this a bizarre one-in-a-million got-off-easy situation? Or did it used to be a little different?
 
I dunno, the DEA seems pretty firm on my end. My facility has (used to have) Telazol on hand for general anesthesia to do biannual boar care (trimming hooves and tusks). We used to have umbrella coverage with our department, but since I work in a satellite facility, the state wasn't happy and took away our Telazol.
 
missdarjeeling said:
Yeah, it's a pretty common policy in physical jobs in the places I've lived. Any accident results in a drug test.

My old hospital didn't test unless someone was suspected of using, but the company I work for now does during the pre-employment process and then randomly. If there's an incident or suspicion, everyone gets tested. During random testing, they can select anyone, including the doctors. If someone doesn't want to give up a habit, they need to be careful to look for an employer who doesn't test.

Between these two hospitals, I've seen one person fired for being drunk on the job (confirmed by breathalyzer), another for pot, and a third for pot and a possible opiate positive. And I think one of the reasons they've been taking it more seriously is the growing problem with theft of controlled drugs. I'm not suggesting that smoking pot makes people steal midaz and ketamine (it doesn't!), but employers are limited in what they can do to keep things under control.



Right, that's one of the problems. There's no guideline to define impairment like there is with alcohol. If someone pops on a simple pee test, all you know is that they used pot at some point fairly recently. It could've been that morning or it could've been two days ago, and all you have is that person's word to go on. No employer or school is going to just take someone's word for it if they consider drug use on the job to be a violation of policy. The only thing that would really change the way it works is a cheap, quick test that measures precisely how much THC you have in your system and a guideline that tells you approximately what that means as to how impaired someone is.



Even if/when it becomes legal, there's no telling whether any specific agency or school or employer's policy is going to change.

As for the DEA license, have they become stricter in recent years? A coworker of mine once worked with a doctor who got caught dealing ketamine. We looked him up on the state licensing board's website, since they listed charges, disciplinary actions, etc. as a matter of public record. It was about 10 years ago now, and he merely had his license suspended. I found it pretty shocking that they didn't revoke it out right. He was literally dealing drugs. Was this a bizarre one-in-a-million got-off-easy situation? Or did it used to be a little different?
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They are pretty much cracking down on controlled substance abuse and distribution. I wouldn't risk it.
 
From a veterinary perspective (as a tech), I've only worked in city government run facilities. Regular drug testing was definitely a thing (I feel like it is in most government positions, regardless of the level of government) and we had techs fired (and blacklisted from all city jobs) because of it.
 
missdarjeeling said:
Right, that's one of the problems. There's no guideline to define impairment like there is with alcohol. If someone pops on a simple pee test, all you know is that they used pot at some point fairly recently. It could've been that morning or it could've been two days ago, and all you have is that person's word to go on. No employer or school is going to just take someone's word for it if they consider drug use on the job to be a violation of policy. The only thing that would really change the way it works is a cheap, quick test that measures precisely how much THC you have in your system and a guideline that tells you approximately what that means as to how impaired someone is.
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This is why I think Colorado's legalization route didn't work out as well as it could have. We've cracked down hard on alcohol and they planned on treating marijuana like alcohol. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a standardized way to determine when someone is legally high like we do for legally drunk (not that I've seen on our local news reports anyways). It doesn't seem well thought out to legalize something in a similar fashion without having that pretty important designation.
 
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batsenecal said:
This is why I think Colorado's legalization route didn't work out as well as it could have. We've cracked down hard on alcohol and they planned on treating marijuana like alcohol. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a standardized way to determine when someone is legally high like we do for legally drunk (not that I've seen on our local news reports anyways). It doesn't seem well thought out to legalize something in a similar fashion without having that pretty important designation.
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Plus, it's my understanding that marijuana can affect two people very differently, whereas (usually) the only difference in experience two people might have with alcohol is tolerance. Which still doesn't change the legal limit for you, something some people forget when they grab their keys at the end of the night.

I'm enjoying all of these drug testing stories, it's interesting to hear how other places do it. I don't even think my jobs had drug policies written up other than "don't show up under the influence." Granted, I've only worked for really small clinics. The one time I did get drug tested was for my zoo internship (and not even the Disney one).
 
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pinkpuppy9 said:
Plus, it's my understanding that marijuana can affect two people very differently, whereas (usually) the only difference in experience two people might have with alcohol is tolerance. Which still doesn't change the legal limit for you, something some people forget when they grab their keys at the end of the night.
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One of our RAs is allergic to marijuana. If the RAs in her building suspect someone is smoking in their room, they joke about calling her to walk past to find out where the smell is coming from based on how bad her reaction is.
 
batsenecal said:
One of our RAs is allergic to marijuana. If the RAs in her building suspect someone is smoking in their room, they joke about calling her to walk past to find out where the smell is coming from based on how bad her reaction is.
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Oh geez. yeah, that would be rough in dorms.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Oh geez. yeah, that would be rough in dorms.
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Ironically, she was placed in the building she is in partially because they have the lowest rate of drugs on campus. This year, they had the worst. Go figure.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Plus, it's my understanding that marijuana can affect two people very differently, whereas (usually) the only difference in experience two people might have with alcohol is tolerance. Which still doesn't change the legal limit for you, something some people forget when they grab their keys at the end of the night.

I'm enjoying all of these drug testing stories, it's interesting to hear how other places do it. I don't even think my jobs had drug policies written up other than "don't show up under the influence." Granted, I've only worked for really small clinics. The one time I did get drug tested was for my zoo internship (and not even the Disney one).
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Funny story time:

I had to get drug tested at my zoo internship too, but they didn't tell me that it was a "supervised" drug test... meaning it was required that an employee go into the bathroom and watch you while you pee o_O well, I got stage fright and couldn't pee, so I was trying to make small talk with the lady to make myself relax so I could go. I asked her the most ridiculous thing that had ever happen during a supervised drug test. She ended up telling me a funny story about this guy who sat on the toilet backwards to pee because he didn't want her to see his penis, and he then accidentally went more than pee all over the floor. Can you imagine? I would die. But still, SO FUNNY, and then I finally could pee :rofl:

The end.
 
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hazelmoo said:
Funny story time:

I had to get drug tested at my zoo internship too, but they didn't tell me that it was a "supervised" drug test... meaning it was required that an employee go into the bathroom and watch you while you pee o_O well, I got stage fright and couldn't pee, so I was trying to make small talk with the lady to make myself relax so I could go. I asked her the most ridiculous thing that had ever happen during a supervised drug test. She ended up telling me a funny story about this guy who sat on the toilet backwards to pee because he didn't want her to see his penis, and he then accidentally went more than pee all over the floor. Can you imagine? I would die. But still, SO FUNNY, and then I finally could pee :rofl:

The end.
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:eek:

I mean, did he at least get what he wanted and she didn't see his penis?
 
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PreVetMed said:
Is this a serious post and question? Am I back in high school? I just think of smoking pot as so juvenile. Not to disrespect or judge anyone here but, this is adult life now. We're becoming doctors and are responsible for animal's lives now. We are to be respected and trusted in this field by clients to take care of their babies. Would I leave my human child at daycare with a person that smoked weed? Um no thanks. I also like how they wrote, "I live in Colorado so though I'm not a huge stoner if I was tested tomorrow I would not pass". Your user name has 420 in it..... Oh right, but you're not a huge stoner..my mistake. You obviously smoke enough to to create a 420 based username to specifically ask this question.
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You're a judgy little sprout aren't you? Go toke up. You'll feel better.
 
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I know countless people in professional positions (including medicine) who smoke marijuana recreationally. Conflating smoking weed and someone automatically being a useless stoner who is either juvenile or can't be trusted (which is basically what you are implying here) is disingenuous, inexperienced, and uneducated. Three things you definitely shouldn't be if you are going to try call other people juvenile and put yourself in a position to champion "adulting" (which as a prevet I doubt you know much about anyway). Legality aside, it is no different than alcohol, which millions of people enjoy recreationally with no problem. In fact, health-wise, it's probably less dangerous anyway. Funny though how alcohol is still perfectly legal....
 
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pinkpuppy9 said:
Plus, it's my understanding that marijuana can affect two people very differently, whereas (usually) the only difference in experience two people might have with alcohol is tolerance. Which still doesn't change the legal limit for you, something some people forget when they grab their keys at the end of the night.

I'm enjoying all of these drug testing stories, it's interesting to hear how other places do it. I don't even think my jobs had drug policies written up other than "don't show up under the influence." Granted, I've only worked for really small clinics. The one time I did get drug tested was for my zoo internship (and not even the Disney one).
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It is interesting. I've never been drug tested in my life. I've worked in clinics and research labs both in the US and abroad. I had to get a DOJ number and send fingerprints to the FBI to get select agent clearance. I've had police and background checks done in other countries as well. I've been in BSL-4 facilities with very dangerous pathogens. Despite all that, never peed in a cup.
 
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Frozenshades said:
It is interesting. I've never been drug tested in my life. I've worked in clinics and research labs both in the US and abroad. I had to get a DOJ number and send fingerprints to the FBI to get select agent clearance. I've had police and background checks done in other countries as well. I've been in BSL-4 facilities with very dangerous pathogens. Despite all that, never peed in a cup.
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It's ok @Frozenshades. Somewhere, someday, someone very special will want your pee.
 
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Frozenshades said:
It is interesting. I've never been drug tested in my life. I've worked in clinics and research labs both in the US and abroad. I had to get a DOJ number and send fingerprints to the FBI to get select agent clearance. I've had police and background checks done in other countries as well. I've been in BSL-4 facilities with very dangerous pathogens. Despite all that, never peed in a cup.
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Really???? Almost 5 years in a row, I peed in a cup for my old research jobs. I am apparently not a nervous pee producer. Sucked for my BF when he was military and had to pee in cup as well. He was a shy pee producer. It made avoiding poppy seeds pretty easy for both of us though.
 
lianali said:
Really???? Almost 5 years in a row, I peed in a cup for my old research jobs. I am apparently not a nervous pee producer. Sucked for my BF when he was military and had to pee in cup as well. He was a shy pee producer. It made avoiding poppy seeds pretty easy for both of us though.
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I refuse to avoid poppy seeds because poppy seed muffins are so dang good.
 
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Ah man, so many fun times peeing in a cup in the military.
 
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vetmedhead said:
I refuse to avoid poppy seeds because poppy seed muffins are so dang good.
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Why yes, as soon I left that job, I tried out poppy seed muffins, poppy seed salad dressing.... They were delicious!

I've accepted a life without poppy seeds because who wants the fun of false positives on a drug test?
 
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I was a div I athlete during undergrad and they would randomly select a couple people from each team for drug screening each month. Basically we were notified in the morning then had to go produce in the early afternoon. So a teammate and I spent the next several hours sucking water so we could pee easily without stage fright. Our time came and the walk across campus was THE WORST. We were giggling uncontrollably and had to stop every 10 or 20 steps because we thought we were going to pee our pants. Then we finally got there, provided our samples, and our urine was too dilute ... so we had to wait around another few hours and provide again :confused:
 
EngrSC said:
I was a div I athlete during undergrad and they would randomly select a couple people from each team for drug screening each month. Basically we were notified in the morning then had to go produce in the early afternoon. So a teammate and I spent the next several hours sucking water so we could pee easily without stage fright. Our time came and the walk across campus was THE WORST. We were giggling uncontrollably and had to stop every 10 or 20 steps because we thought we were going to pee our pants. Then we finally got there, provided our samples, and our urine was too dilute ... so we had to wait around another few hours and provide again :confused:
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Intentionally diluting urine is a way of passing a drug test when you normally wouldn't, lol. Buys you time.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Intentionally diluting urine is a way of passing a drug test when you normally wouldn't, lol. Buys you time.
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Yup. We were so naive and didn't know that at the time!
 
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DRUGS ARE BAD. ONLY LOSERS DO DRUGS. JUST SAY NO. D.A.R.E. TO RESIST DRUGS AND VIOLENCE!

What a crap program. I think a lot of us grew up in the heart of it, and it didn't even work - if anything it made it worse.

http://www.livescience.com/33795-effective.html

The program doesn't work, and in fact is counterproductive, leading to higher drug use among high school students who went through it compared to students who did not. Because of those studies, D.A.R.E. lost federal funding in 1998.
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Oops.

hazelmoo said:
Yeah, people will actually buy other people's "clean" pee to use so they don't get busted :laugh:
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I won't say that my husband did that for someone in high school, but... lol.

(He taped a condom of pee to the inside of his leg. The person who wanted it, not my husb - he just provided the clean sample. Kids do dumb stuff in HS... lol)
 
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twelvetigers said:
DRUGS ARE BAD. ONLY LOSERS DO DRUGS. JUST SAY NO. D.A.R.E. TO RESIST DRUGS AND VIOLENCE!

What a crap program. I think a lot of us grew up in the heart of it, and it didn't even work - if anything it made it worse.

http://www.livescience.com/33795-effective.html



Oops.



I won't say that my husband did that for someone in high school, but... lol.

(He taped a condom of pee to the inside of his leg. The person who wanted it, not my husb - he just provided the clean sample. Kids do dumb stuff in HS... lol)
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Hey now, I won a duffle bag when I took D.A.R.E.
 
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We had a guy get busted for using a prosthetic penis and a bag of clean pee during one of our "random" drug tests (happened almost every time we had a long weekend).
 
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