Drugs

[2ndyear]

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I can understand why anaesthesiologists will sacrifice their careers for these drugs after they are ADDICTED, but what I don't understand is why someone who has NEVER done a drug would risk throwing away everything to try it. How can someone be THAT curious that they think it is worth ruining their entire lives to satisfy their curiosity? I don't think it's stupidity, as we are all relatively intelligent people, so what is it then?

From what I've read, and I'm by no means an expert, sleep is high up there on the list. Erratic work schedules, lack of sleep, trouble getting to sleep, etc.

To those who have not seen this yet, just wait. You will. I had one person close to me with an addiction (opiates) and it's not pretty. Good news is he's still alive and wasn't found dead. But getting help was not easy for him, and it could have went either way for a while.

Seems like every month the local news has another story about another doctor losing their license to drug or alcohol addiction, and it's really only the cases where they show up to work impaired that actually make the news (plastic surgeon operated 'impaired' last month-fell asleep doing lipo, anesthesia resident did an epidural drunk, anesthesia resident caught huffing sevo, anesthesia resident caught doing propofol passed out, anesthesia attending caught writing narc scripts to resident)- These are just recent local stories. Many many more are channeled through physician rehabs.

 

[Jeff05]

many lives have been ruined. be a reasonable mature human being and suppress your "curiosity." i'll save you the suspense. IV opioids, etc feel really really really good.

you will never be able to keep it "under control."

as mentioned in my recent post, go to
http://www.allanesthesia.com/

and for a list of signs/symptoms of abuse:

http://www.allanesthesia.com/

every anesthesiology training program should have abuse education as part of it's curric.

jeff

 

[Sinbadthesailor]

From what I've read, and I'm by no means an expert, sleep is high up there on the list. Erratic work schedules, lack of sleep, trouble getting to sleep, etc.

To those who have not seen this yet, just wait. You will. I had one person close to me with an addiction (opiates) and it's not pretty. Good news is he's still alive and wasn't found dead. But getting help was not easy for him, and it could have went either way for a while.

Seems like every month the local news has another story about another doctor losing their license to drug or alcohol addiction, and it's really only the cases where they show up to work impaired that actually make the news (plastic surgeon operated 'impaired' last month-fell asleep doing lipo, anesthesia resident did an epidural drunk, anesthesia resident caught huffing sevo, anesthesia resident caught doing propofol passed out, anesthesia attending caught writing narc scripts to resident)- These are just recent local stories. Many many more are channeled through physician rehabs.

this last case is really sad. so someone ratted out an attending+resident when possibly only 1 of them was experimenting with drugs(or maybe not even, but was using them for a legit purpose like against anxiety) and supposedly "saved them from addiciton". there is no proof that either one of them was addicted because they obviously did not come to work impaired. but who ever ratted on them 100% made them unemployed and ended their lives. i guess it doesnt matter that they studied so long to get where they were.

as is well known, most of those drugs are not considered more addictive than tobacco or alcohol. someone here posted that 40% of people become addicted to tobacco after first try. well almost everyone is exposed to it as 2nd hand smoke(and where i grew up we all huffed all kinds of smoke when we were in high school) and the number of smokers in population is still <40%. i assume those 60%+ who dont get addicted can experiment with tobacco without worrying. you give fentanyl or whatever to the people who go for any operation. and if you go to a psychiatrist it's very easy to get a number of other mind altering drugs. arent most of those drugs supposed to be safe if u give them to patients? yet you are willing to kill a doctor if you catch him experimenting. i would hope that after so many years of studying and training, a doctor would be allowed to play with his drugs in his spare time the same way LAPD cops can have an arsenal of weapons at home even though regular citizens of CA cannot. Why can judges and cops and epidemiologists(or whoever writes those stupid articles) tell a doctor what he can do with his own body?

 

[dhb]

HOLY **** MAN is all I got to say about that one.

Well i got a hit of mofine for post-pain and i had a huge histamine release: my forearm was all red and itchy. After the second 2mg i started feeling like $hit: really nauseated for 45 min... so i guess reactions are also person dependent...

 

[MSHell]

... stupid crap ...

You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

 

[climbingdocs]

this last case is really sad. so someone ratted out an attending+resident when possibly only 1 of them was experimenting with drugs(or maybe not even, but was using them for a legit purpose like against anxiety) and supposedly "saved them from addiciton". there is no proof that either one of them was addicted because they obviously did not come to work impaired. but who ever ratted on them 100% made them unemployed and ended their lives. i guess it doesnt matter that they studied so long to get where they were.

as is well known, most of those drugs are not considered more addictive than tobacco or alcohol. someone here posted that 40% of people become addicted to tobacco after first try. well almost everyone is exposed to it as 2nd hand smoke(and where i grew up we all huffed all kinds of smoke when we were in high school) and the number of smokers in population is still <40%. i assume those 60%+ who dont get addicted can experiment with tobacco without worrying. you give fentanyl or whatever to the people who go for any operation. and if you go to a psychiatrist it's very easy to get a number of other mind altering drugs. arent most of those drugs supposed to be safe if u give them to patients? yet you are willing to kill a doctor if you catch him experimenting. i would hope that after so many years of studying and training, a doctor would be allowed to play with his drugs in his spare time the same way LAPD cops can have an arsenal of weapons at home even though regular citizens of CA cannot. Why can judges and cops and epidemiologists(or whoever writes those stupid articles) tell a doctor what he can do with his own body?

For real???? Seriously?? You are not joking?

 

[Planktonmd]

this last case is really sad. so someone ratted out an attending+resident when possibly only 1 of them was experimenting with drugs(or maybe not even, but was using them for a legit purpose like against anxiety) and supposedly "saved them from addiciton". there is no proof that either one of them was addicted because they obviously did not come to work impaired. but who ever ratted on them 100% made them unemployed and ended their lives. i guess it doesnt matter that they studied so long to get where they were.

as is well known, most of those drugs are not considered more addictive than tobacco or alcohol. someone here posted that 40% of people become addicted to tobacco after first try. well almost everyone is exposed to it as 2nd hand smoke(and where i grew up we all huffed all kinds of smoke when we were in high school) and the number of smokers in population is still <40%. i assume those 60%+ who dont get addicted can experiment with tobacco without worrying. you give fentanyl or whatever to the people who go for any operation. and if you go to a psychiatrist it's very easy to get a number of other mind altering drugs. arent most of those drugs supposed to be safe if u give them to patients? yet you are willing to kill a doctor if you catch him experimenting. i would hope that after so many years of studying and training, a doctor would be allowed to play with his drugs in his spare time the same way LAPD cops can have an arsenal of weapons at home even though regular citizens of CA cannot. Why can judges and cops and epidemiologists(or whoever writes those stupid articles) tell a doctor what he can do with his own body?

You can't be serious! 😱
If this is what you mean by curiosity then I strongly agree with Jet and the others.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Ok how about Patron Margaritas?? Because alcohol is a legalized drug we can talk about it on many posts on this forum, trivialize it, brew our own etc... ETOH has the same addictive and destructive potential as any other drug.

Is that so? Is that why nearly 100% of the population have EtOH at some point in their lives - yet only a small percentage (5%? 10%?) are abusers? Do you think only 5-10% of people who have ever used IV heroin or fentanyl are abusers?

 

[dhb]

Is that so? Is that why nearly 100% of the population have EtOH at some point in their lives - yet only a small percentage (5%? 10%?) are abusers? Do you think only 5-10% of people who have ever used IV heroin or fentanyl are abusers?

do you have official numbers?

 

[Sinbadthesailor]

You can't be serious! 😱
If this is what you mean by curiosity then I strongly agree with Jet and the others.

no, thats experimentation, thats more controversial. curiousity is merely wanting to know how others feel about the drug. "confessions of the opium eater" will probably answer all my questions about opium. it was written by an aristocrat who either wasnt an addict or got over his addiction. but i am pretty sure that if you take most other drugs, then the only literature you will find is from the "victims" or policemen or lawyers. btw, ive never tried cocaine even though guys in my company did it all the time. they said that all it did was give them energy much stronger than caffeine or even e. and i knew about the health problems associated with it.
also someone in this thread mentioned some "stupid stunts" that people have tried. one of them is not stupid at all: riding a big wave in the ocean. if you are trained to surf, there is nothing stupid about riding those waves. it's like performing a surgery. you cant just cut someone open without training, but you need to start somewhere. of course some people are not fit for surfing or for surgery and just shouldnt do it. but i once laughed in the face of a cop at some state park. he told me that i shouldnt go hiking after dark and because it's too cold and i didnt sign the guestbook,etc. i just ran into the mountain and he couldnt catch me because he wasnt fit to go there himself. and when i returned to my car at 3am he obviously wasnt there because he didnt care to see if i would be all right. he just wanted to keep me from having fun.

 

[nutmegs]

no, thats experimentation, thats more controversial. curiousity is merely wanting to know how others feel about the drug. "confessions of the opium eater" will probably answer all my questions about opium. it was written by an aristocrat who either wasnt an addict or got over his addiction. but i am pretty sure that if you take most other drugs, then the only literature you will find is from the "victims" or policemen or lawyers. btw, ive never tried cocaine even though guys in my company did it all the time. they said that all it did was give them energy much stronger than caffeine or even e. and i knew about the health problems associated with it.
also someone in this thread mentioned some "stupid stunts" that people have tried. one of them is not stupid at all: riding a big wave in the ocean. if you are trained to surf, there is nothing stupid about riding those waves. it's like performing a surgery. you cant just cut someone open without training, but you need to start somewhere. of course some people are not fit for surfing or for surgery and just shouldnt do it. but i once laughed in the face of a cop at some state park. he told me that i shouldnt go hiking after dark and because it's too cold and i didnt sign the guestbook,etc. i just ran into the mountain and he couldnt catch me because he wasnt fit to go there himself. and when i returned to my car at 3am he obviously wasnt there because he didnt care to see if i would be all right. he just wanted to keep me from having fun.

make sure you mention these things in your med school interviews. they will impress the interviewers and increase your chances of getting in.

 

[Gimlet]

also someone in this thread mentioned some "stupid stunts" that people have tried. one of them is not stupid at all: riding a big wave in the ocean. if you are trained to surf, there is nothing stupid about riding those waves. it's like performing a surgery. you cant just cut someone open without training, but you need to start somewhere. of course some people are not fit for surfing or for surgery and just shouldnt do it.

That's a bunk analogy because the difference is that the surgeon is not going to try to perform surgery on himself and wind up dead after losing control of the surgery. The only time anesthesiologists should EVER even THINK about taking the powerful opiates or sedatives that they use is if they are being administered or prescribed to them by their own medical provider for sound medical reasons.

but i once laughed in the face of a cop at some state park. he told me that i shouldnt go hiking after dark and because it's too cold and i didnt sign the guestbook,etc. i just ran into the mountain and he couldnt catch me because he wasnt fit to go there himself. and when i returned to my car at 3am he obviously wasnt there because he didnt care to see if i would be all right. he just wanted to keep me from having fun.

This is so ******ed and beside the point that I think I lost a couple of IQ points just reading it.

 

[coprolalia]

So, if you are curious what should you do?
Are you saying that if you are curious then there is no hope and are you basically screwed?

Plank,

Go back to my first post. I think you (and a lot of other people) are missing my point. And, you ask, if you feel curious, what should you do?

If you read my first post on this thread, you'll see the answer to that. I'm not suggesting that you can physically or mentally control the feeling of curiosity, but you can control what you allow your brain to do next....

(A) Curiosity ----> FEAR ----> knowledge ----> thought suppression

(B) Curiosity ----> perseverance ----> ignorance ----> experimentation ----> trouble

I choose "A".

-copro

 

[dragonfly99]

r.e. the post right above this:
I've never had any narcs, but my dad recently had a shoulder operation and he says the same thing. He was lovin' the morphine shots he got right after. I've never had any, but I think got a couple percocet years ago after having my wisdom teeth taken out. It made me feel ****ty and hung over. I personally am not too curious about drugs.

As for the original post. You would NOT just have unfettered access to drugs as a physician. If you do anesthesia, you'll have more access than other docs. For other docs, we can't really write ourselves a prescription for a narcotic, so we don't really have direct access.

I have a little concern about the original poster's comments about drinking to the point of passing out during college. Maybe it was just immaturity or it's somewhat of a guy thing, but that's really not smart. People die from that all the time. It doesn't speak so well to your judgment. If you really want to do medicine better get your head screwed on straight...hate to be harsh but it's kind of important. You'll be working your tail off during med school and not partying it up much, except right after exams.

 

[Planktonmd]

Plank,

Go back to my first post. I think you (and a lot of other people) are missing my point. And, you ask, if you feel curious, what should you do?

If you read my first post on this thread, you'll see the answer to that. I'm not suggesting that you can physically or mentally control the feeling of curiosity, but you can control what you allow your brain to do next....

(A) Curiosity ----> FEAR ----> knowledge ----> thought suppression

(B) Curiosity ----> perseverance ----> ignorance ----> experimentation ----> trouble

I choose "A".

-copro

I agree with that.
I just was trying to say that you can't say to people don't be curious but I absolutely agree that you should not act on that curiosity and take it to the next level.
Many people feel curious about a variety of things at some point in their lives but only a minority translates that curiosity into action.

 

[coprolalia]

I agree with that.
I just was trying to say that you can't say to people don't be curious but I absolutely agree that you should not act on that curiosity and take it to the next level.
Many people feel curious about a variety of things at some point in their lives but only a minority translates that curiosity into action.

This is what I said...

I'm just going to say this now, this is a very dangerous and slippery slope even wondering about such things. If you are going to be an anesthesiologist, you absolutely cannot allow yourself to even think about such things. Curiousity killed the cat.

-copro

And, then in my next post...

Sorry, dudes. Hafta disagree. I like Jet's response.

Don't even think it. If you find yourself starting to think it, smash it out of your brain. Thinking such thoughts is the first step onto a slippery slope. There was something in the OP's question that has me a little bit bothered...

-copro

I'm not sure how that's substantively different than the part of my post you bolded in your response above.

-copro

 

[coprolalia]

And, actually it should be...

Curiosity -----> knowledge -----> fear -----> thought suppression (i.e. avoidance)

... in that order.

People who get in trouble are the ones who either (a) act in ignorance, (b) say, "It won't happen to me", or (c) both.

And, especially in this case, you don't need to acquire the knowledge firsthand. 🙂

-copro

 

[Planktonmd]

This is what I said...



And, then in my next post...



I'm not sure how that's substantively different than the part of my post you bolded in your response above.

-copro

I disagree with the "not allowing yourself to think" because you can't do that.

 

[coprolalia]

I disagree with the "not allowing yourself to think" because you can't do that.

How about if I restate that "can't" and instead say "shouldn't"?

-copro

 

[Arch Guillotti]

And, actually it should be...

Curiosity -----> knowledge -----> fear -----> thought suppression (i.e. avoidance)

... in that order.

People who get in trouble are the ones who either (a) act in ignorance, (b) say, "It won't happen to me", or (c) both.

And, especially in this case, you don't need to acquire the knowledge firsthand. 🙂

-copro

I am curious, have knowledge, have the fear of god almighty.

But I just can't put thoughts out of my head just because I want to. Usually the opposite happens!

 

[coprolalia]

I am curious, have knowledge, have the fear of god almighty.

But I just can't put thoughts out of my head just because I want to. Usually the opposite happens!

I'm worried for you. 🙁

-copro

 

[Planktonmd]

How about if I restate that "can't" and instead say "shouldn't"?

-copro

Sure, there are many things that we "shouldn't" do but we still do them because we are human.
Wouldn't it be great if we could just turn off our thoughts and emotions?

 

[Planktonmd]

I'm worried for you. 🙁

-copro

Are you saying you can get thoughts out of your head on demand?
From your previous posts (the ones about hot nurses etc...) I can tell that you are not very good at resisting temptation or am I wrong here?
🙂

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I'm worried for you. 🙁

-copro

Dude all I am saying is that I have thought about this issue before because noone is immune from something happening to them. If you think you are immune you are a setup for trouble. So I am thinking about this issue now because I am reading this thread. But this is the first time I have thought of this particular issue even after spending all day at work and it's associated hazards.

 

[huktonfonix]

Hmmmm. Curiosity leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering......

 

[pgg]

Ummm... wrong. We're talking about powerful drugs that tend to take over your life, despite your best intentions not to let them. Many people get curious, they experiment, and next thing they know they can't get the monkey off their back. Many people in this profession have thought like you, and are now either dead or have ruined their career(s).

You're right. These drugs cause persistent physical changes to the brain. A curious person may be in control up to the moment he tries dose #1 ... after that all bets are off, and the odds are on the drug's side. Pharmacology usually wins.

Medicine in general, and anesthesia in particular, are full of brilliant people who have been in absolute, confident control of their lives every step of the way. It's easy to see why some think they can control the drugs. It's important to talk about these smart people whose brains have been permanently biologically altered by JUST ONE curious experiment.

A little fear is a good thing.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Hmmmm. Curiosity leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering......

 

[Arch Guillotti]

When JPP posts about his poker exploits I wonder what it would be like to be a high roller.

Last time I went to Vegas I forgot to gamble.

 

[coprolalia]

Hmmmm. Curiosity leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering......

Fear does not lead to anger. 🙄 Fear leads to avoidance.

Frustration leads to anger. And, frustration usually arises when attempting to control things that are beyond your ability to do so.

Think about the last time you were really, really angry. Then you'll understand.

-copro

 

[nutmegs]

I'm a little afraid for you, copro, if you think thought-avoidance or ANYTHING will make you immune to the problem. 🙂 It goes all ways.

 

[coprolalia]

Don't be afraid for me. I'm well aware of the risks. And, I'm not-so-arrogant to think that I would be the one who wouldn't get burned if I tried the stuff.

The thought has creeped at least once into everyone's mind who's in this profession. It's part of the hazard. It's how far you take that thought, though. The only truly "weak" ones are the ones who fester on it, instead of squashing it, or hubristically believe they won't become a victim, and begin to wonder more and more what it would be like until they finally do it...

Don't worry about me. Worry about people who can't suppress their own curiosity.

-copro

 

[nutmegs]

Don't be afraid for me. I'm well aware of the risks. And, I'm not-so-arrogant to think that I would be the one who wouldn't get burned if I tried the stuff.

The thought has creeped at least once into everyone's mind who's in this profession. It's part of the hazard. It's how far you take that thought, though. The only truly "weak" ones are the ones who fester on it, instead of squashing it, or hubristically believe they won't become a victim, and begin to wonder more and more what it would be like until they finally do it...

Don't worry about me. Worry about people who can't suppress their own curiosity.

-copro

*sighs* you missed my point. oh well. if I was a worrier, I'd worry about everyone. experience would have it no other way.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

I don't know how you got involved in a science-based career with such a lack of curiosity. It is WEAKNESS that leads to addiction, not being curious. And I'm not casting stones, just making an observation.

To anyone I offended, I apologize. I did NOT mean to suggest that I have some sort of psychological strength beyond anyone else here, because that sure as hell ain't true. And I won't go into details, but I recently experienced a personal tragedy from drug use. I stand by my statement above, because the person I lost had a predeliction for drug use that I can only describe as a WEAKNESS. That does NOT make him a p*ssy, which some people seem to think I'm suggesting. Far from it. This dude was my best friend, and he was no weakling.

I've been trying to drop a few pounds. I know I shouldn't eat f*cking huge lunches and/or dinners, but I have frequent moments of WEAKNESS and I do. Please tell me how this IS ANY DIFFERENT from an educated person who does not want to be an addict, and does NOT want to die, yet continues to use substances that he knows are addictive and may well kill him. To me, the element of weakness is SO OBVIOUS that if you disagree with me it can only be because of semantics.

Once again, I apologize to anyone I offended. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I do NOT think I'm wrong. And to me, taking responsibility for a weakness and taking the steps to correct your error is often the most difficult and courageous thing a person can do.

Thanks Vent, JPP, gill etc... for disagreeing respectfully and saying why. To copro, you have a lot of learning to do. Good luck and congratulations on all your papers.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

The baddest-ass picture I've ever seen.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I'm worried for you. 🙁

-copro

🙄

 

[deleted77919]

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[deleted77919]

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[Pooh & Annie]

Perhaps this is semantics (by your definition) but the difference is that eating a cheeseburger or two doesn't permenantely and unalterably change the reward pathways in your brain like many drugs of abuse can. In both monkey experiments using fMRI and autopsy as well as human experiments (less well controlled) reward pathways in addicts even after years of sobriety do not recover their original functionality. In my mind that's a fundamental difference between "occassionally eating too much when I really know I shouldn't" and a crack abuser whose dopamine pathways don't function anymore (and won't even after years of recovery).

I MOSTLY agree with you, but...

1) I don't feel like looking, but I have no doubt that someone has shown that the addictive qualities of fatty or carb heavy food affect the same reward centers (though certainly not as directly)

2) It doesn't matter. I ABSOLUTELY agree that the human CNS is programmed by genes and altered by plasticity in ways that make all sorts of f*cked up things tempting to us. Unfortunately, we have to deal with it and take responsibility. All the antisocial XYYs who commit violent crimes belong in prison. They were very unfortunate do draw their genetic lot (as are people who grew up in violent homes and became violent adults).

 

[leviathan]

I'm worried for you. 🙁

-copro

Whatever you do, don't picture a pink elephant in your mind!

Were you able to stop the image from appearing? I didn't think so.

 

[dfk]

Whatever you do, don't picture a pink elephant in your mind!

Were you able to stop the image from appearing? I didn't think so.

i thought it was a white rabbit?

 

[Salt Creep]

(A) Curiosity ----> FEAR ----> knowledge ----> thought suppression

(B) Curiosity ----> perseverance ----> ignorance ----> experimentation ----> trouble

For the Christians here, James 1:14-15 -
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Temptation -> lust (desire) -> sin (action) -> death

I agree one can not stop a thought (curiosity) from ever occuring, but it is possible to say, "hey, this is wrong. I'm thinking about something else."

If something is wrong to do, then it is wrong to actively think about and imagine how it would be. If you're married, you still can't help but notice someone of the opposite sex who is ridiculously hot. You might even wonder how it might be ... -> but to really imagine and dwell on it is wrong, and dangerous. That's seeing how close to line you can get, instead of just staying away altogether.

Anyone given to drug abuse should look into a different specialty, and I think that includes etOH. And by that I mean repeatedly intentionally getting drunk - whether that's once a day or every few months. It's using the substance for the effect - which I don't think is unlike abusing more powerful drugs. I enjoy a good bourbon or wine, but I'm also never been one to enjoy being drunk.

It's too slippery of a slope to mess with this stuff. People very rarely stop on their own - they get caught and their career is dead, or they are found dead themselves.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

For the Christians here, James 1:14-15 -
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

Temptation -> lust (desire) -> sin (action) -> death

I agree one can not stop a thought (curiosity) from ever occuring, but it is possible to say, "hey, this is wrong. I'm thinking about something else."

If something is wrong to do, then it is wrong to actively think about and imagine how it would be. If you're married, you still can't help but notice someone of the opposite sex who is ridiculously hot. You might even wonder how it might be ... -> but to really imagine and dwell on it is wrong, and dangerous. That's seeing how close to line you can get, instead of just staying away altogether.

Anyone given to drug abuse should look into a different specialty, and I think that includes etOH. And by that I mean repeatedly intentionally getting drunk - whether that's once a day or every few months. It's using the substance for the effect - which I don't think is unlike abusing more powerful drugs. I enjoy a good bourbon or wine, but I'm also never been one to enjoy being drunk.

It's too slippery of a slope to mess with this stuff. People very rarely stop on their own - they get caught and their career is dead, or they are found dead themselves.

Except for the bible/sin part, Iagree with this. There's a difference between being curious and dwelling or obobsessing.

 

[coprolalia]

Curiosity unchecked leads to temptation.

Typically thought process and two potential different outcomes of that thought process...

Conscious thought:

"I wonder what fentanyl feels like."

Decisions:

(a) "Man, don't even think like that! Put it out of your mind. That stuff is dangerous. Think about how many people have thought that way and ended-up in trouble. Don't even let yourself think about how it feels..."

This is a form of conscientious and rational "suppression" and is a practical and mature way to handle negative thoughts that creep into one's mind. It is considered one of the "mature" defense mechanisms in modern psychology.

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(b) "It must feel nice. You know, I could probably sneak a vial of it outta here and no one would know the difference. I'll just try a little. Just enough to see how it feels, then that'll be it. I'm sure that it'd help me with those headaches I've been getting, and I'm a doctor so I know what I'm doing and how to dose it..."

This is the dangerous conclusion of continuing to be curious about how these drugs feel. I'm certain that many people who've ended-up in trouble have thought in this manner.

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The initial thought is the seed. You may not be able to control being handed that seed, but you can prevent yourself from planting it and letting it grow.

That's all I've been talking about since I first posted on this thread. I choose option (a).

-copro

 

[rsgillmd]

Curiosity unchecked leads to temptation.

Typically thought process and two potential different outcomes of that thought process...

Conscious thought:

"I wonder what fentanyl feels like."

Decisions:

(a) "Man, don't even think like that! Put it out of your mind. That stuff is dangerous. Think about how many people have thought that way and ended-up in trouble. Don't even let yourself think about how it feels..."

This is a form of conscientious and rational "suppression" and is a practical and mature way to handle negative thoughts that creep into one's mind. It is considered one of the "mature" defense mechanisms in modern psychology.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

(b) "It must feel nice. You know, I could probably sneak a vial of it outta here and no one would know the difference. I'll just try a little. Just enough to see how it feels, then that'll be it. I'm sure that it'd help me with those headaches I've been getting, and I'm a doctor so I know what I'm doing and how to dose it..."

This is the dangerous conclusion of continuing to be curious about how these drugs feel. I'm certain that many people who've ended-up in trouble have thought in this manner.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The initial thought is the seed. You may not be able to control being handed that seed, but you can prevent yourself from planting it and letting it grow.

That's all I've been talking about since I first posted on this thread. I choose option (a).

-copro

How about option (c), which is what I chose when I took a percocet for an excruciating migraine. When I was sane again, I thought "That really made me sleepy, and constipated. I wonder if fentanyl makes you feel as sleepy -- probably not from what I've seen." Then I moved on. There was no beating myself over the head to try to supress the thought. There were no desires to go out and try some. You can have thoughts, approach them logically, and move on. There does not have to be any extremism (I don't know if that's a word, but I think you know what I'm trying to say) in the thoughts.

 

[nutmegs]

How about option (c), which is what I chose when I took a percocet for an excruciating migraine. When I was sane again, I thought "That really made me sleepy, and constipated. I wonder if fentanyl makes you feel as sleepy -- probably not from what I've seen." Then I moved on. There was no beating myself over the head to try to supress the thought. There were no desires to go out and try some. You can have thoughts, approach them logically, and move on. There does not have to be any extremism (I don't know if that's a word, but I think you know what I'm trying to say) in the thoughts.

👍👍
"I wonder what fentanyl feels like"

"I bet it feels hella nice. My patients sure seem to like it."

*moves on with next task*

Thinking something that clearly feels good must feel good does NOT necessarily lead to "I bet I could sneak some out if I tried!". Stop projecting your own obsessions, eh?

 

[coprolalia]

You, my friend, are at risk. Maybe not now. Maybe not next week. Maybe not even next year. But, you are at risk if you think that way.

Now, have a bunny...

-copro

 

[coprolalia]

 

[dfk]

dude, WTF is up with all the animal pic posts?!?!
feeling a little lite lately? 😉

 

[Planktonmd]

You, my friend, are at risk. Maybe not now. Maybe not next week. Maybe not even next year. But, you are at risk if you think that way.

Now, have a bunny...

-copro

You keep saying that people are at risk, and that they should immediately stop any thoughts they have.
Do you really think that people can just stop their thoughts?
You are starting to sound like many "spiritual" people who demand that you should eliminate any thoughts about sin but they don't take into consideration that humans are not robots and you can't just push the "turn off thought button" and get on with life.
Does this have something to do with you being a hardcore Palin supporter as demonstrated by your new avatar?
Are you going to demand that we burn all the books not approved by the church next?

 

[Gern Blansten]

Uh oh. I predict Plankton has a kitten headed his way in 5...4...3...2...1.....