Duke and WashU

[Wahina]

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It seems like quite a few people have been accepted to both. What are your thoughts about each and which are you favoring at this point? I did a regional interview at Duke so I really don't know much about the school, but it seems really nice. How do the locations compare? I thought St. Louis would be a nice place to live. I don't see how Duke could be much better than WashU, but according to USNews it seems that students tend to prefer Duke (Duke accepted ~180 for 100 spots, while WashU accepted about 3 people for every spot). So what is everyone thinking?

 

[Dookter]

Holy cow, I was going to make this exact thread tomorrow!!!! I was just accepted yesterday to both schools, and I want to see what everyone thinks about them. I have my own pro/con list for each school, but I am too tired from snowboarding for the first time today to do it now. I will do it tomorrow, but I def. have some ideas. I also have a friend that is a 1st year at Duke, so maybe he could give us some insight.

 

[wbrl]

I have to say, the schools seemed very similar to me. They both appear to have excellent faculty and facilities. They're both somewhat away from the hustle and bustle of the city. And tons of smart and inspired students attend each school. I honestly thought they were more similar than most other schools I interviewd at.

 

[charles82]

I have to say, the schools seemed very similar to me. They both appear to have excellent faculty and facilities. They're both somewhat away from the hustle and bustle of the city. And tons of smart and inspired students attend each school. I honestly thought they were more similar than most other schools I interviewd at.

Hi,

How were you notified of your acceptance to WashU? Could you also tell us when you applied/interviewed to give a better idea of the wait?

Thanks!

 

[Dookter]

To the question about notification and date of interview at WashU: I was notified Friday afternoon by an email saying I was accepted and that I needed to apply for their full scholarships. Then Saturday I got a large USPS express mail envelope with the official letter. I was complete since this summer, but I wasn't interviewed until 2-6-06.

Now, about WashU and Duke. I am REALLY hoping people respond more than what I have to offer, but here is what I can gather:

Pros for Duke: basketball, ranked super high in both research and primary care, very nice undergrad campus right next door, great facilities, free coffee in the admissions office for students, nice student lounge, name recognition, great finaid, the coolest curriculum ever that perfectly sets students up for the top residency spots in the country without having to be in medical school for five years to get top research experience, low cost of living, cool students

Cons for Duke: Durham, my girlfriend of over 6 years likes cities [see con #1]

Pros for WashU: the nicest buildings I have ever seen, a real emphasis on making the students happy, that awesome park right by the school, St. L. is a cool city, one of the top research schools in the country, cool students, when I was there a professor had purchased a keg for the 1st years to drink while watching the superbowl [so nice faculty]

Cons for WashU: a research powerhouse, but lacking in clinical experience for the students, high cost of living, despite the fact that it is one of the best schools, it doesn't have the name recognition that other schools have

The bottom line is that they are both great schools. That is really why I applied to them in the first place I guess, but I obviously could not anticipate getting into both of them [especially not in the same day]. I think the atmosphere at both schools seems relaxed and comfortable. So now hopefully some more people will comment and together maybe we can all get a better idea of what these two great schools are really like!

 

[ahumdinger]

St. Louis = high cost of living? Are you kidding? Maybe Durham is dirt cheap, but St. Louis by no means is a place of expensive living. It's common for med students to share an apt near the school and pay ~300/month per person. If you want to live alone, you can easily find a studio for ~400-500 or a large 1 bedroom for $600. For people coming from places like Chicago, New York, Boston, LA, etc, this is pretty cheap.

Next year, the st. Louis metrolink expansion will be completed, which will allow med students to live closer to the undergrad campus (where rent is cheaper and there are more choices as far as multi-bedroom apts to share) and take metrolink to school. The chancellor of WashU just announced an agreement with Metrolink by which all university students/staff/faculty will get a Metropass which means free, unlimited rides on metrolink. (well, probably not technically free, but included in your tuition so you don't have to think about it)

But since I will likely be waitlisted at WashU...by all means, go to DUKE!! 😉

To the question about notification and date of interview at WashU: I was notified Friday afternoon by an email saying I was accepted and that I needed to apply for their full scholarships. Then Saturday I got a large USPS express mail envelope with the official letter. I was complete since this summer, but I wasn't interviewed until 2-6-06.

Now, about WashU and Duke. I am REALLY hoping people respond more than what I have to offer, but here is what I can gather:

Pros for Duke: basketball, ranked super high in both research and primary care, very nice undergrad campus right next door, great facilities, free coffee in the admissions office for students, nice student lounge, name recognition, great finaid, the coolest curriculum ever that perfectly sets students up for the top residency spots in the country without having to be in medical school for five years to get top research experience, low cost of living, cool students

Cons for Duke: Durham, my girlfriend of over 6 years likes cities [see con #1]

Pros for WashU: the nicest buildings I have ever seen, a real emphasis on making the students happy, that awesome park right by the school, St. L. is a cool city, one of the top research schools in the country, cool students, when I was there a professor had purchased a keg for the 1st years to drink while watching the superbowl [so nice faculty]

Cons for WashU: a research powerhouse, but lacking in clinical experience for the students, high cost of living, despite the fact that it is one of the best schools, it doesn't have the name recognition that other schools have

The bottom line is that they are both great schools. That is really why I applied to them in the first place I guess, but I obviously could not anticipate getting into both of them [especially not in the same day]. I think the atmosphere at both schools seems relaxed and comfortable. So now hopefully some more people will comment and together maybe we can all get a better idea of what these two great schools are really like!

 

[DeadorAlive]

For me Duke trumps WashU because of the 3rd year. I'm planning to get a second degree anyway (in public policy) which Duke accommodates and emphasizes, while WashU has a more "traditional" bent. (It was the only school I interviewed at that didn't have a strong answer for my questions about policy, public health, global health, international programs). WashU would certainly allow me to go elsewhere to get me 2nd degree, but Duke will help me to actually do it.

I do prefer StL living, though.

 

[top]

I got into Duke so far, but nothing from WashU (I interviewed in early Jan). I suppose that makes the decision pretty easy at the moment, but it's a dilemma I would like to have!

 

[Sifosdiyas]

Pros for WashU: the nicest buildings I have ever seen, a real emphasis on making the students happy, that awesome park right by the school, St. L. is a cool city, one of the top research schools in the country, cool students, when I was there a professor had purchased a keg for the 1st years to drink while watching the superbowl [so nice faculty]

Cons for WashU: a research powerhouse, but lacking in clinical experience for the students, high cost of living, despite the fact that it is one of the best schools, it doesn't have the name recognition that other schools have

The bottom line is that they are both great schools. That is really why I applied to them in the first place I guess, but I obviously could not anticipate getting into both of them [especially not in the same day]. I think the atmosphere at both schools seems relaxed and comfortable. So now hopefully some more people will comment and together maybe we can all get a better idea of what these two great schools are really like!

Can you elaborate on Wash U lacking clinical experience? 😱 I had the impression that they emphasized clinical skills as much as basic research. Not to mention Barnes-Jewish is one of the top hospitals in the country.

 

[Camel]

St. Louis is going to have a major 2-year construction project on one of the 3 huge highways... to my knowledge they are closing that highway completely for 2 years or something. I don't remember the specifics, but I do know it's going to be hellish in terms of traffic if that happens 🙂

I really like both schools, too. Duke had great weather and I think a less "I'm awesome" attitude than WashU (which I count as a plus, AND could be an utterly inaccurate perception based upon one day and the people I happened to meet). Both are great institutions with Duke being very innovative in their curriculum and WashU being quite traditional.

 

[docmode]

You should definitely go to second look for both of them. They are equally "good" schools but the climate and atmosphere are so different at each. It is such a personal decision that hopefully when you visit you can see where you feel most comfortable.

 

[Dookter]

Can you elaborate on Wash U lacking clinical experience? 😱 I had the impression that they emphasized clinical skills as much as basic research. Not to mention Barnes-Jewish is one of the top hospitals in the country.

This is a question I ask at every interview. I want to know if I will not only learn to think like a great doctor, but can I perform like one as well. I am accepted as the University of Tennessee and Emory. They have the Med and Grady. At these places you are allowed to touch basically any patient you want and are given MUCH more freedom to learn and practice medicine [emphasis on the word practice]. So I asked my interviewer at WashU [great guy by the way...I would love to work with faculty like him!] about the clinical experience. And my interviewer actually went to Baylor where they have Ben Taub, so he has a good basis for comparison. He said that WashU really is not about getting the "hands on" skills as much as some schools. He said his students will sometimes mess up little things that students at Baylor would be ashamed to mess up. Now, obviously students from WashU go on to become leaders in medicine and seem to have no trouble at all with the hands on things. So I don't think it matters in the end as much. I just know that you have to be careful about that stuff sometimes. BUT, for what it is worth, I am pretty sure students from Duke do not get the hands on skills that students at some other schools get either. I have a friend at DukeMed, and his roommate told me he spent a ton of time volunteering down at Southerwestern and that the students at Southwestern get much more hands on clinical training. Bottom line: there are not really any major public teaching hospitals at Duke or WashU. But they are still two of the top schools in the country and train world class doctors, so I say take the possibility of less hands on knowledge very lightly. Besides, MD stands for "makes decisions"....if you can learn to do that, you can definitely learn to do everything else easily.

 

[blueapple]

Duke vs. Wash U - Duke.

For all the reasons listed by others, with an emphasis on the massive weather difference. This difference is not small. Duke had weather in the 70s last week. Granted, this is not normal, but Duke is waaayy warmer than Wash U. Students sit out on the beautiful quads amid Gothic architecture during every month of the year. There is never a month when you won't have at least a few days in the 60s, if not 70s. Sunny, warm days tend to put most people in a better mood. Wash U. and Duke may be comparable in terms of their academic qualities, but the difference in their weather is night and day. Go live a happy life at the best school in the South.

 

[DrRads101]

Duke vs. Wash U - Duke.

For all the reasons listed by others, with an emphasis on the massive weather difference. This difference is not small. Duke had weather in the 70s last week. Granted, this is not normal, but Duke is waaayy warmer than Wash U. Students sit out on the beautiful quads amid Gothic architecture during every month of the year. There is never a month when you won't have at least a few days in the 60s, if not 70s. Sunny, warm days tend to put most people in a better mood. Wash U. and Duke may be comparable in terms of their academic qualities, but the difference in their weather is night and day. Go live a happy life at the best school in the South.

It sounds like you have no experience living in both places. The weather difference is not nearly as great as you make it seem. The difference IS small. Both places have their share of equally crappy and equally beautiful weather. Both places I needed a jacket in the winter. St. Louis never got any "ice storms" that basically meant you can't drive on the roads and your power will be out for the next 3 days. I mean when I was living in the Triangle I swore it was cloudy and rained for 3 months straight from September through November so don't use some 70 degree day in March as some selling point. Besides you are using March, by far the wildest month in the entire year as far as weather for the midwest, as your comparison? Check back in one week in St. Louis, I dare you. I'm willing to bet the weather will be drastically different because that is what March is all about.

And no offense but it is pathetic to put such an emphasis on the weather. Two cities that have some of the highest rates of middle-aged depression and suicide are Phoenix and Miami. And let's be real, the curriculum and your school has by far a greater impact on your mood than weather in medical school. I am a 2nd year and the most depressed I have ever been in medical school are those days in the spring and summer where everyone is outside enjoying themselves and I'm in the library trying to learn all the muscles in the arm. Seriously just think about it. Not to mention how great of an impact location has. When I'm actually off and want to relieve stress, I don't feel like hitting up some dive bars in Chapel Hill or sitting in some college quad in my mid-20's twiddling my thumbs when I can pretty much have unlimited choices in a bigger city with an actual central downtown, major league sports teams, ten times the restaurants, etc., like St. Louis. St. Louis might not be the greatest city, but ANY city beats Durham from my experience.

Two years ago I was deciding where to go, and I'll have to vote for WashU on this one, even though they rejected me. I got into Duke, Northwestern, and Michigan and chose Northwestern because of location, curriculum, and the people I met. I couldn't have been happier because I love living in a big city (totally unique from the other two choices). I lived in the Triangle for 3 years in college and it is the epidomy of suburban sprawl. Seriously the area around Duke doesn't even have any street lights on the roads! And lastly, the curriculum! This is the key folks! During my time at UNC I met a lot of Duke med students at the club I DJ'ed at (at the time it was called NV on Rosemary, not sure if it still open), and they were universally telling me "not to go to medical school" when I told them that that was my plan. Didn't exactly send off a good vibe, and years later after being a 2nd year and knowing that if I was at Duke I would literally have had to cram the past two YEARS of nonstop learning into one freaking year, I could see why.

And to the person who said he heard Duke had better clinical training than WashU, sitting here in medical school and interacting with docs for almost two years, I can tell you I have heard the opposite. A lot of doctors across this country seem to be suspicious of Duke's curriculum, to be real, probably because 99% of the doctors across this country spent their first 2 years in basic science and clinicals with the last half of medical school focused totally on clinicals. And no, there is no way in hell Duke has a "bigger name" than WashU. I don't know what some people in here are smoking but it came from the same person who said St. Louis has a high cost of living (!) which is just totally crazy. Anyway WashU is considered part of the Big Three by pretty much every doctor I've met, whether it was on the interview trail or in the actual hospital. Name recognition does not get bigger than the words "Washington University" or "Barnes-Jewish." Besides that is way too much of a Pre-Med mode of thought where the only thing you know is "name recognition" and you are in the mode of thought that you actually think where you go to medical school is going to make or break what you want to do.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[kaffy]

Did anyone here send a letter of intent to WashU?

 

[somewhere2010]

Did anyone here send a letter of intent to WashU?

i actually think i am going to today...trying to find a thread on how to write it though (damn search function is gone)! any quick tips?

 

[kaffy]

i actually think i am going to today...trying to find a thread on how to write it though (damn search function is gone)! any quick tips?

PM me if you want an idea of what I was going to write. I also need to find out if we are supposed to send a copy to the dean and the admissions office or what.

 

[Dookter]

And no, there is no way in hell Duke has a "bigger name" than WashU. I don't know what some people in here are smoking but it came from the same person who said St. Louis has a high cost of living (!) which is just totally crazy. Anyway WashU is considered part of the Big Three by pretty much every doctor I've met, whether it was on the interview trail or in the actual hospital. Name recognition does not get bigger than the words "Washington University" or "Barnes-Jewish." Besides that is way too much of a Pre-Med mode of thought where the only thing you know is "name recognition" and you are in the mode of thought that you actually think where you go to medical school is going to make or break what you want to do.

To MOST people Duke has a bigger name. I realize it should not matter what most people think. Actually, it really should only matter who has a bigger name within the medical community. But I have to be superficial here and admit that coming from a working class background and knowing mostly working class people, it is going to sound better to say I am going to Duke than WashU.
And I am not putting much stock in name recognition. And I definitely do not think where I go to med school is going to make or break what I do. I have a cousin who went to my state school and is now being groomed for an academic position in pediatric GI...he is going into private practice though when his fellowship ends in June. Hell, people basically acted like I was throwing my life away when I attended the University of Tennessee for undergrad...and they were completely wrong. I put very little stock into what medical school I attend when it comes to my future success. But like I said, I am from a working class background, so large private schools will most likely be cheaper than my state school, which has NO free money to give away whatsoever. So I guess I'll just have to go to the best school possible.

And St. L. has a higher cost of living than Durham. This is a thread about WashU and Duke...not NYC or Chicago. For people considering both schools as their top choices, it is worth noting that it will probably cost more to live in St. L., esp. in my position where I want to try to buy a house or condo.

And there is really no need to say that what others think is crazy or that we are smoking something... this is meant to be a thread to help those making this tough decision between two excellent schools a little easier [meaning positive, not negative].

 

[somewhere2010]

To MOST people Duke has a bigger name. I realize it should not matter what most people think. Actually, it really should only matter who has a bigger name within the medical community. But I have to be superficial here and admit that coming from a working class background and knowing mostly working class people, it is going to sound better to say I am going to Duke than WashU.
And I am not putting much stock in name recognition. And I definitely do not think where I go to med school is going to make or break what I do. I have a cousin who went to my state school and is now being groomed for an academic position in pediatric GI...he is going into private practice though when his fellowship ends in June. Hell, people basically acted like I was throwing my life away when I attended the University of Tennessee for undergrad...and they were completely wrong. I put very little stock into what medical school I attend when it comes to my future success. But like I said, I am from a working class background, so large private schools will most likely be cheaper than my state school, which has NO free money to give away whatsoever. So I guess I'll just have to go to the best school possible.

And St. L. has a higher cost of living than Durham. This is a thread about WashU and Duke...not NYC or Chicago. For people considering both schools as their top choices, it is worth noting that it will probably cost more to live in St. L., esp. in my position where I want to try to buy a house or condo.

And there is really no need to say that what others think is crazy or that we are smoking something... this is meant to be a thread to help those making this tough decision between two excellent schools a little easier [meaning positive, not negative].

well it sounds like you want to go to duke - so go to duke! are you really deliberating? it doesn't sound like it...

 

[docmode]

Don't go to Duke, they have lousy basketball, both teams lost yesterday!!! Hoorey.

 

[DrRads101]

To MOST people Duke has a bigger name. I realize it should not matter what most people think. Actually, it really should only matter who has a bigger name within the medical community. But I have to be superficial here and admit that coming from a working class background and knowing mostly working class people, it is going to sound better to say I am going to Duke than WashU.

And St. L. has a higher cost of living than Durham. This is a thread about WashU and Duke...not NYC or Chicago. For people considering both schools as their top choices, it is worth noting that it will probably cost more to live in St. L., esp. in my position where I want to try to buy a house or condo.

What the lay, non-medical person thinks of medical schools, besides being totally debatable on what indeed they do think and completely dependent on where you are located, is so utterly pointless to you as a medical student and as a doctor that why would you even bring it up. Besides having absolutely no impact in your life besides maybe a pat on the back when you go home for vacations, I absolutely gaurantee you that these same people you are talking about are so knowledgable that they would be even more impressed if you told them you went to Princeton Medical School or the University of California-Berkeley School of Medicine.

And you made the statement that St. Louis has a "high cost of living." It does not. If your objective criteria is Durham vs. X than pretty much every place in this country has a high cost of living. St. Louis is easily one of the cheapest large cities to live in in the country.

 

[ahumdinger]

I think most pre-meds think that Duke has a bigger name than WashU because many people on the coasts have never even heard of WashU, either the undergrad or the med school. But I'm pretty sure that within academic circles, WashU is no less recognized than Duke.

 

[ChocolateKiss]

I think the decision between two schools like WashU and Duke comes down to personal preference. We can argue about which is more presitigious, but really, both are top 5 schools, and both will give you every opportunity that you need to succeed in any specialty.

So think about things like whether you'd prefer to live in STL or Durham and whether you liked the Duke or WashU curriculum better. What about the students- did you feel more comfortable at one school?

I personally liked Duke MUCH MUCH more than WashU because I felt like the students were less socially awkward and more friendly and because I like North Carolina more than Missouri. Also, I like the 3rd year research opportunity, the emphasis on dual degrees, and the opportunity do get into clinical stuff your second year.

Good luck with the decision- you really can't go wrong with either school.

 

[huknows00]

I think it's definitely a regional thing. I go to a Northeast school and the first time I found out that Wash U was ranked top three in medical school I was like, Washington University in what?!

After all these years, after talking to faculty mentors, and after interviewing there, Wash U definitely rose in my opinion to be one of the best schools in the country certainly deserving of its high rank. But if you go with Wash U, it's could get tiring trying to explain to all of your friends and family where you go to school and that it's not in Washington State or DC. On the other hand, if you can go to a place like Duke or similar school on the coasts, you would need a compelling reason to turn it down for St. Louis. It's sad but true, I'm grappling with the situation right now (damn if only they would move Wash U to Jersey and drop the "in St. Louis"!)

 

[kirexhana]

I think it's definitely a regional thing. I go to a Northeast school and the first time I found out that Wash U was ranked top three in medical school I was like, Washington University in what?!

After all these years, after talking to faculty mentors, and after interviewing there, Wash U definitely rose in my opinion to be one of the best schools in the country certainly deserving of its high rank. But if you go with Wash U, it's could get tiring trying to explain to all of your friends and family where you go to school and that it's not in Washington State or DC. On the other hand, if you can go to a place like Duke or similar school on the coasts, you would need a compelling reason to turn it down for St. Louis. It's sad but true, I'm grappling with the situation right now (damn if only they would move Wash U to Jersey and drop the "in St. Louis"!)

hahaha! totally! i had to explain to my entire family a bajillion time the difference between University of Washington, Wash U and George Washingtion U

 

[studentstudent]

hahaha! totally! i had to explain to my entire family a bajillion time the difference between University of Washington, Wash U and George Washingtion U

I'm not sure why, but a lot of my friends keep assuming Wash U and Duke are in Michigan. Not sure what the fixation on Michigan is, but it's really funny, and shows how unless I get into a CA school, these two acceptances look like backups to my family/friends.

 

[superdevil]

to briefly chime in...

Cons for WashU: a research powerhouse, but lacking in clinical experience for the students, high cost of living, despite the fact that it is one of the best schools, it doesn't have the name recognition that other schools have

we have plenty of clinical experince, both within our curriculum and otherwise. to me it seems that this point is often paired as the whole "good at research, bad with people" stigma of schools like washu. its just not true.


also, as ctwickman pointed out, you'll never live in a cheaper "big city" than st. louis. if durham is your gut-feeling preference, so be it. but the cost of living here is pretty comparable to anywhere else in the midwest.

and not to beat a dead horse, but the name recognition thing is a little skewed. people at taco bell may not know washu from a hole in the ground, but residency program directors will be mighty pleased to see it on your transcript. in academia, washu's name is plenty recognizable (understatement).

lastly, i think someone mentioned a dearth of public policy stuff here. just in my first year, i've already personally spoken with william peck two separate occasions. dr. peck was the dean of the med school, was the chair of the aamc, chair of the aamc council of deans, and is now on the 22-person national committee on health care reform. he's a pretty big player on the national level, and he still takes time to lecture 1st year students and chat with us personally. if you like policy, you can make inroads here almost as well as you can anywhere (except for maybe harvard, jhu, whatever).

good luck with the decisions, people! 👍

 

[Dookter]

I think it's definitely a regional thing. I go to a Northeast school and the first time I found out that Wash U was ranked top three in medical school I was like, Washington University in what?!
Wash U definitely rose in my opinion to be one of the best schools in the country certainly deserving of its high rank. But if you go with Wash U, it's could get tiring trying to explain to all of your friends and family where you go to school and that it's not in Washington State or DC.

See, this is exactly what I mean, even as silly as it may be. And don't get me wrong, I might end up at WashU next year, so I love the school. But I don't want to have to walk around explaining to people that I go to a good school. It is sort of like my MCAT score. Within the premed/med community, I have a solid score...not unbelievable, but solid enough for most all schools. But when people would ask how I did on the MCAT [people not "in the know"], it would go something like this: "Well, hmmm, it's out of what again? 45? Well, I guess that is an ok score." And then I would have to annoy myself and that person trying to explain that people don't usually score that high on the exam, etc. I don't want to find myself saying, "Well, ACTUALLY, WashU is one of the best schools in the country, even if you've never heard of it." Definitely a superficial point, but I guess I am looking at all the details.

 

[Wahina]

I have thought about this in the other way. It would be kind of nice to go to one of the best med schools in the nation and not have people be in awe of you every time they find out. Like if you tell someone that you go to Harvard med, people will think you are a genius/nerd, but if you say WashU, most people probably think you go to a state school or somewhere else they've never heard of, so no big deal.

 

[Camel]

See, this is exactly what I mean, even as silly as it may be. And don't get me wrong, I might end up at WashU next year, so I love the school. But I don't want to have to walk around explaining to people that I go to a good school. It is sort of like my MCAT score. Within the premed/med community, I have a solid score...not unbelievable, but solid enough for most all schools. But when people would ask how I did on the MCAT [people not "in the know"], it would go something like this: "Well, hmmm, it's out of what again? 45? Well, I guess that is an ok score." And then I would have to annoy myself and that person trying to explain that people don't usually score that high on the exam, etc. I don't want to find myself saying, "Well, ACTUALLY, WashU is one of the best schools in the country, even if you've never heard of it." Definitely a superficial point, but I guess I am looking at all the details.

Yeah, I'm with you but not just between Duke and WashU. Ultimately, I don't think I'll weight this very much. Unless you are going to be a publishing researcher, going to a state school (for example) that isn't well known won't make a difference. I happen to love MUO, so I'm having great difficulty deciding - especially when finances are brought into the picture.

I should add that I am coming from the hypothetical point of view of someone who wants to publish and be well known for her/his work. This is not my personal perspective, or my application process would have looked a little different. Like most people, though, I'm wary of closing doors 🙂

 

[DeadorAlive]

Duke 2nd Look invite arrived in inbox 10:01am EST, 3/7
WashU 2nd Look invite arrived in inbox 10:02am EST, 3/7

bizarre.

 

[studentstudent]

Duke 2nd Look invite arrived in inbox 10:01am EST, 3/7
WashU 2nd Look invite arrived in inbox 10:02am EST, 3/7

bizarre.

For WashU, was it the actual invitation or the email to save the date and sayign that the invitation will arrive later?

 

[Wahina]

Duke 2nd Look invite arrived in inbox 10:01am EST, 3/7
WashU 2nd Look invite arrived in inbox 10:02am EST, 3/7

bizarre.

Yeah mine came like 20 min apart

 

[DrRads101]

both are top 5 schools

Actually Duke is #6.

 

[DeadorAlive]

It was an email you're supposed to respond to by March 24. To me that's an official invitation... don't know if we'll get anything else.

 

[kirexhana]

omg! i have this dilemma, now too! i think i'm going to faint... 😳

 

[DrRads101]

I don't want to find myself saying, "Well, ACTUALLY, WashU is one of the best schools in the country, even if you've never heard of it." Definitely a superficial point, but I guess I am looking at all the details.

Gosh, I don't know why I post in here but honestly I am trying to help, because thoughts like these, well, you are just going to have a good laugh at them not even 6 months from now. So better to learn now than be willingly ignorant and base a decision off of this. Personally I am shocked and little depressed that this is part of the thought process pre-meds are going through these days. I don't ever remember trying to base my life decisions off of having my academic record be recognized by someone not in my field.

I just want to be very clear that when you are in medical school, you don't walk around telling people where you go. It sounds like you are basing something off of when you go home to visit family? Who really cares then. I mean come on now. If you actually went to WashU how many doctors and people in the health care field, the field that you are going to be saturated with and the field that is going to become your life with everyone you know BUT your family coming from, are going to not know what WashU is? I mean seriously. I guess it's easy to think differently now because you ARE a lay person and are surrounded by the lay person. In 1 year, you will be completely surrounded and saturated by a totally different population, and a light bulb will go off and you will wonder what the hell you were ever thinking. You realize you are going to move your entire life to another city/region and another workforce/population. The thought of the "working class" back home will become a distant memory mere months after you start school.

You are on a slippery slope so you might as well mature fast before you end up making some decisions for the wrong reasons. These same people you are trying to appease will look strangely at you later on if you tell them you want to be, let's say, an Interventional Radiologist. They will even wonder if that's a real doctor or what the heck that is. If you care so much about this then make the life altering decision to be a "General Surgeon" instead because it "sounds better" to the lay person probably because they've heard of it before. Never mind that in reality it is not nearly as prestigious, competitive or high paying as the Interventional Radiologist. Appeasing the working class masses back home will end up dissapointing you REAL quick from my experience, and it won't do ANYTHING for you. I repeat, you will get NOTHING out of your current way of thinking so do yourself a favor and check it at the door immediately. I'm seriously just trying to help.

 

[Camel]

Gosh, I don't know why I post in here but honestly I am trying to help, because thoughts like these, well, you are just going to have a good laugh at them not even 6 months from now. So better to learn now than be willingly ignorant and base a decision off of this. Personally I am shocked and little depressed that this is part of the thought process pre-meds are going through these days. I don't ever remember trying to base my life decisions off of having my academic record be recognized by someone not in my field.

I just want to be very clear that when you are in medical school, you don't walk around telling people where you go. It sounds like you are basing something off of when you go home to visit family? Who really cares then. I mean come on now. If you actually went to WashU how many doctors and people in the health care field, the field that you are going to be saturated with and the field that is going to become your life with everyone you know BUT your family coming from, are going to not know what WashU is? I mean seriously. I guess it's easy to think differently now because you ARE a lay person and are surrounded by the lay person. In 1 year, you will be completely surrounded and saturated by a totally different population, and a light bulb will go off and you will wonder what the hell you were ever thinking.

You are on a slippery slope so you might as well mature fast before you end up making some decisions for the wrong reasons. These same people you are trying to appease will look strangely at you later on if you tell them you want to be an Urologist, an Interventional Radiologist, etc. They will even wonder if that's a real doctor or what the heck that is. If you care so much about this then make the life altering decision to be a "General Surgeon" instead because it "sounds better" to the lay person, even though in reality it is not nearly as prestigious, competitive or high paying as the Interventional Radiologist. Appeasing the working class masses back home will end up dissapointing you REAL quick from my experience, and it won't do ANYTHING for you. I repeat, you will get NOTHING out of your current way of thinking so do yourself a favor and check it at the door immediately. I'm seriously just trying to help.

That was... beautiful. You rock my socks.

 

[Dookter]

Gosh, I don't know why I post in here but honestly I am trying to help, because thoughts like these, well, you are just going to have a good laugh at them not even 6 months from now. So better to learn now than be willingly ignorant and base a decision off of this. Personally I am shocked and little depressed that this is part of the thought process pre-meds are going through these days. I don't ever remember trying to base my life decisions off of having my academic record be recognized by someone not in my field.

I just want to be very clear that when you are in medical school, you don't walk around telling people where you go. It sounds like you are basing something off of when you go home to visit family? Who really cares then. I mean come on now. If you actually went to WashU how many doctors and people in the health care field, the field that you are going to be saturated with and the field that is going to become your life with everyone you know BUT your family coming from, are going to not know what WashU is? I mean seriously. I guess it's easy to think differently now because you ARE a lay person and are surrounded by the lay person. In 1 year, you will be completely surrounded and saturated by a totally different population, and a light bulb will go off and you will wonder what the hell you were ever thinking. You realize you are going to move your entire life to another city/region and another workforce/population. The thought of the "working class" back home will become a distant memory mere months after you start school.

You are on a slippery slope so you might as well mature fast before you end up making some decisions for the wrong reasons. These same people you are trying to appease will look strangely at you later on if you tell them you want to be, let's say, an Interventional Radiologist. They will even wonder if that's a real doctor or what the heck that is. If you care so much about this then make the life altering decision to be a "General Surgeon" instead because it "sounds better" to the lay person probably because they've heard of it before. Never mind that in reality it is not nearly as prestigious, competitive or high paying as the Interventional Radiologist. Appeasing the working class masses back home will end up dissapointing you REAL quick from my experience, and it won't do ANYTHING for you. I repeat, you will get NOTHING out of your current way of thinking so do yourself a favor and check it at the door immediately. I'm seriously just trying to help.

Man, you're taking a minor point way too seriously. At this point I could flip a coin and be happy at either school. I am only leaning toward Duke b/c of the curriculum. All I said was that Duke has a bigger name to most people, which it does. And to be honest, the minute I get so caught up in medicine that I forget how normal people think or what is important to them, I have lost that connection with the very people I will be treating...sorry if I don't want to exist in a medical vacuum. If that means nothing to you or anyone else, why would I care? And I never once said I would choose Duke over WashU b/c of the name on the letterhead. If I choose Duke, it will be b/c of the curriculum and the "vibe" I get [and second look weekend of course]. Trust me, there are tons of reasons I would rather live in St. L. and be closer to my family and have my longtime girlfriend much happier. I would never give up anything for the name "Duke" on paper. And I fully expect some drawn out response about how I am obviously going into medicine for the wrong reasons [even though I never mentioned a single of my reasons] or how stupid I am or how great WashU is in the medical community [which I never once denied], so this is the last F-ing time I am going to bother with the crap you keep saying.

 

[DrRads101]

All I said was that Duke has a bigger name to most people, which it does.

And all I'm saying is that this is pointless because the only people that will really care or actually see where you went to medical school, besides your family, are the people within the medical community that will hire you. So in that sense and that sense only, you should not care what other people think because it has no impact on you or them.

And to be honest, the minute I get so caught up in medicine that I forget how normal people think or what is important to them, I have lost that connection with the very people I will be treating...sorry if I don't want to exist in a medical vacuum.

No offense but you have already lost your connection to your patient if you think he/she cares where you went to medical school. I never said "who cares what anyone thinks, period." But the patient cares first and foremost about your character and demeanor and whether they like you as a person, secondly where you are practicing since patients tend to prefer certain hospitals, thirdly your reputation if they can find out about it and if it some major operation they flew in to see you about, and lastly where you trained. And by "trained" I do not mean medical school.

Put it this way, If I had a dollar for everytime a patient asked my attending within the past full year what medical school he attended, I would not even be able to buy a 99 cent double stack at Wendy's.

 

[DrRads101]

double post

 

[kirexhana]

geez... what going on in here? it's supposed to be a happy thread of people that got into both schools. it seems like it's going to be mt. vesuvius any minute now... 🙂

 

[Smoke This]

This is a question I ask at every interview. I want to know if I will not only learn to think like a great doctor, but can I perform like one as well. I am accepted as the University of Tennessee and Emory. They have the Med and Grady. At these places you are allowed to touch basically any patient you want and are given MUCH more freedom to learn and practice medicine [emphasis on the word practice]. So I asked my interviewer at WashU [great guy by the way...I would love to work with faculty like him!] about the clinical experience. And my interviewer actually went to Baylor where they have Ben Taub, so he has a good basis for comparison. He said that WashU really is not about getting the "hands on" skills as much as some schools.

I'm not the biggest fan of Wash U, but in general I just want to set the record straight when I see people talking about experiences at these medical schools as though they know enough about it to be credible.

As for Grady, let me tell you something I don't think you appreciate. They have a substandard computer system. If you want to view any radiology studies, then you go down to the radiology department and retrieve it. If you are at Wash U and want to see a radiology study, you go to the nearest computer. If you want vitals at Wash U on all your team's patients in time for morning surgery rounds, you get a printout of every patient in your census automatically, already populated with vitals, I/Os, labs, and meds. At Grady you're going to be coming in at 4:30 am to help your intern make the list by hand. For a medical student, "hands on" means the team delegates the scutwork to you. If you want to be running back and forth from radiology and drawing bloods on patients your entire call night then be my guest. As a premed "hands on" sounds exciting and different, but believe me noneducational work that takes your already severely limited time away from reading up for the shelf/pimping on the wards/tomorrow's surgeries gets old really fast.

Medical decision-making ability only comes once you have maturity and experience. It's not a matter of how "hands on" the training is. I hardly think there is any real difference in medical student autonomy anywhere.

 

[Dookter]

Yeah, I have definitely been told that more hands-on stuff means you're doing scut work, and that part definitely is not something I want. In fact, I sort of like the thought of learning to think like a doctor rather than perform tasks that will probably not fall directly on me in the future anyway. However, there is an obvious advantage to having hands on experience. I have heard it from doctor after doctor and many med students. A 4th year down at Baylor even gave us a whole lecture about this while sitting in this beautiful sitting area in St. Luke's.

 

[ND2005]

On Grady, I've definitely heard that there is a good and a bad side to all that clinical exposure.

The good is that you will see EVERYTHING -- so many patients, so many problems. You also get to do a lot, b/c Grady legitimately needs contributions from med students to keep functioning.

The bad is that its a big trial by fire -- the docs don't baby you or show you how to do much -- they just tell you what to do and you better figure it out fast. They also throw tons of scutwork at you that they don't have time for. And, like someone said above, the hospital's network and organizational system isn't very advanced, so you have to run around a lot for labs, films, etc.

 

[bobob]

On Grady, I've definitely heard that there is a good and a bad side to all that clinical exposure.

The good is that you will see EVERYTHING -- so many patients, so many problems. You also get to do a lot, b/c Grady legitimately needs contributions from med students to keep functioning.

The bad is that its a big trial by fire -- the docs don't baby you or show you how to do much -- they just tell you what to do and you better figure it out fast. They also throw tons of scutwork at you that they don't have time for. And, like someone said above, the hospital's network and organizational system isn't very advanced, so you have to run around a lot for labs, films, etc.

All this talk about Grady is making me think of Ben Taub. I know the Baylor students were talking up how much "hands on" you get at this somewhat understaffed public hospital...anyone know if it has the same downsides as Grady?

 

[Dookter]

All this talk about Grady is making me think of Ben Taub. I know the Baylor students were talking up how much "hands on" you get at this somewhat understaffed public hospital...anyone know if it has the same downsides as Grady?

Have you seen both? I obviously do not know for sure, but it seems Ben Taub is a little more technologically advanced. At Grady there were people everywhere, the elevators were jammed...the place was just totally packed and crazy. Ben Taub seemed a little more organized and a little nicer. I have heard they are both excellent places to learn though!

 

[bobob]

Have you seen both? I obviously do not know for sure, but it seems Ben Taub is a little more technologically advanced. At Grady there were people everywhere, the elevators were jammed...the place was just totally packed and crazy. Ben Taub seemed a little more organized and a little nicer. I have heard they are both excellent places to learn though!

No, I haven't been to both, but the posts were making me a little cautious about the students enthusiasm for the "hands-on" environment at Ben Taub. I'm glad to hear they are more technologically advanced than Grady. I must admit I was excited after touring Ben Taub and speaking with the students about their experiences there.

I guess, like most things in life, with the good (more hands-on clinical experience/responsibilities during rotations) you have to take the bad (doing some scut-work for an understaffed facility).

 

[dockiedoc]

Hey guys, I just wanted to put my own 2 cents in. I'm currently a first year at WashU...I was in the same boat as you last year - Wash U vs Duke. I have to say that honestly, I wish I chose Duke. Yes the schools are similar as many of you have pointed out, and I saw that last year as an applicant. Academically and research-wise, as well as with recognition (at least amongst academic & residency circles with WashU) the schools are top notch.

The student body here at WashU is what makes me really wish I chose Duke. When I visited Wash U (interview and revisit weekend), the students I met were outgoing and friendly. However, the students who are currently in my class are not - they are VERY high strung, competitive, and not people I choose to associate with out of class. In class they are annoying and so competitive I feel like I am in an Urban-legend premed situation in which kids would kill each other to get a good residency/summer research position/the professor's approval. There are a few kids that I've become friends with, who are pretty cool. However, the kids who proclaim they are "laid back and cool" are often the opposite while in any academic/career situation. The great majority of my class drives me crazy--some of them even continuously make condescending comments (due to low self-esteem, I'm guessing) to make them seem like they are so much better than others. During my visits the then-first-year students (now second years) said they went out all the time during first year because it is P/F, but everyone in my class studies like crazy all the time, to a point where a lot of worthwhile extracurricular student groups may be cancelled next year due to lack of first-year involvement. I think the students totally put on a different face when meeting with prospective students, eg at interview pizza parties and revisit weekends, prolly to seem cooler than they actually are. The majority of my class is a bit socially awkward. And the second year class, no matter how laid back they seemed when I met them at revisit, have disappeared this year, because 2nd year is a H/HP/P/F graded system and notoriously known to be hard. (Second years even come up to us and say, you think you’re doing a lot of work this year, just wait till second year kills you.)


I guess it is hard to make your choice - when I was choosing, Wash U and Duke both had friendly, laid-back kids. Maybe it is context dependent, and Duke kids also go Jeckel-Hyde in academic situations. Anyway, GO TO DUKE!!! You wont regret it! I really wish I wasnt in such a cutthroat environment now…I wish I had chosen Duke.

 

[Dookter]

I guess it is hard to make your choice - when I was choosing, Wash U and Duke both had friendly, laid-back kids. Maybe it is context dependent, and Duke kids also go Jeckel-Hyde in academic situations. Anyway, GO TO DUKE!!! You wont regret it! I really wish I wasnt in such a cutthroat environment now…I wish I had chosen Duke.

Thanks so much for your input! I am just wondering, does anyone have any perspective on the students at Duke?