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Anybody hae some details on Duke and UNC general surgery programs? Whta sort of numbers do you have to have to be competitive? How are the programs in terms of cases and lifestyle? Thanks.
Duke/UNC general surgery
- Thread starter kelsey
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I too would like info on the Duke general surgery residency. I was interested in it, or at least learning more about it, but there is very little info about it.
When I emailed the residency contact person, I was told to see their website for information (since they didn't mail out brochures). There is *1 page* of information on their residency. It looks more like an introductory letter by Pappas as opposed to info on the program. It mentions nothing of length, rotations, call schedule, etc.
FREIDA also has limited information.
Any people out there familiar with the Duke gen surg residency?
When I emailed the residency contact person, I was told to see their website for information (since they didn't mail out brochures). There is *1 page* of information on their residency. It looks more like an introductory letter by Pappas as opposed to info on the program. It mentions nothing of length, rotations, call schedule, etc.
FREIDA also has limited information.
Any people out there familiar with the Duke gen surg residency?
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Before I present my opinions, let me say that I am a diehard UNC fan - went there for undergrad and will graduate in May from the UNC medical school, and on March 20, I hope to find out that I will be a general surgery resident at UNC.
Okay, so I love UNC. The general surgery residency is excellent. It probably has the highest percentage of female residents of any program in the country. Research is optional. The attendings are fantastic. The program is NOT malignant. Residents are friends outside of work. Dr. Meyer, the chairman, is committed to the 80hour work week. Residents rotate at UNC and at Wake Med, a private hospital in Raleigh. The people are genuinely happy here. Don't get me wrong - there are moments where residents are tired and unhappy with things - it is a surgery residency. The program is a bit top heavy - interns don't get to the OR that much.
As far as Duke, it is a bit more traditional than UNC. Interns wear short white coats and white pants. It is a 7 year (or more) residency program. Everything is very formal. My impression of the residents (I did a rotation at a Duke affiliated hospital with some of their surgery residents) is that they are not friends outside of the hospital. I do believe that name recognition works in Duke's favor, but as far as excellent training, Duke is no better than UNC. Plus, UNC is in a much nicer location than Duke. Duke residents rotate at several hospitals throughout the state of NC and at a VA.
Again, I am definitely biased, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'd be happy to answer any more specific questions.
Okay, so I love UNC. The general surgery residency is excellent. It probably has the highest percentage of female residents of any program in the country. Research is optional. The attendings are fantastic. The program is NOT malignant. Residents are friends outside of work. Dr. Meyer, the chairman, is committed to the 80hour work week. Residents rotate at UNC and at Wake Med, a private hospital in Raleigh. The people are genuinely happy here. Don't get me wrong - there are moments where residents are tired and unhappy with things - it is a surgery residency. The program is a bit top heavy - interns don't get to the OR that much.
As far as Duke, it is a bit more traditional than UNC. Interns wear short white coats and white pants. It is a 7 year (or more) residency program. Everything is very formal. My impression of the residents (I did a rotation at a Duke affiliated hospital with some of their surgery residents) is that they are not friends outside of the hospital. I do believe that name recognition works in Duke's favor, but as far as excellent training, Duke is no better than UNC. Plus, UNC is in a much nicer location than Duke. Duke residents rotate at several hospitals throughout the state of NC and at a VA.
Again, I am definitely biased, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'd be happy to answer any more specific questions.
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Well our Tarheel friend is indeed biased. There's no doubt that UNC has a fine training program. Their Chair is a great guy, a great mentor, they have excellent faculty too. But Duke and UNC have very different missions: Duke has, and will always concentrate on training academic surgeons; UNC is obligated to train surgeons for the community as well as academic surgeons. The number of department chairs and division heads trained under Sabiston at Duke is actually quite astonishing. This attests to Duke's orientation.
If all you care about is whether residents are happy and adequately trained from a technical standpoint, then there really isn't much distinction between the two. In fact, UNC is probably the better choice (aside from the tremendous operative experience [not just volume] Duke residents get). If you want a launchpad for an academic career, Duke, along with other "academic" programs like Hopkins, the Brigham, &c., is the choice.
It's not about "name recognition", it's about what kind of career you want. If you want a nice, cush, community practice, why in the heck would you go to a research-oriented surgery program?--that's just silly.
All that said, here's as objective picture as possible of what Duke provides: First, Duke runs the flat-out best interview process of all surgery programs that I saw. They're organized, there's none of this idle residents wandering in and out and talking among themselves in their scrubs and finagling free food; a representative from each year gives a presentation of what happens in their year, and the Chiefs are responsible for coordinating the process and making sure applicants aren't stuck staring off in space. Each applicant feels that the Program is paying attention to them as an individual, and the number of interviewees is low (as opposed to the Brigham, for example).
Yes, they are traditional...so applicants have to decide whether they like this or not--this is purely personal preference. Their reason for the formal approach is that you know exactly what is expected of you as a trainee. Some people do better in less structured environments.
As for resident camaraderie--actually many residents do socialize with one another outside of the hospital (e.g. meeting at the local trendy bar). It's hard to generalize about such a thing, because dynamics vary from year to year at ANY program.
Yes, interns and JARs wear short coats and white pants, this is probably a bit silly--the only advantage is that people know who they are talking to when they are talking with a surgery resident. Though wearing scrubs outside the OR area is not the mortal sin it used to be; no one wears scrubs in the clinic or when rounding. It's just another feature of the formal nature of the program. Sabiston's original intent was that patients at a training hospital cannot "pick" their doctor, thus it's incumbent on house staff to look as professional as possible.
Decide what you want, and then the distinction between any Duke-type program and UNC-type program is clear.
If all you care about is whether residents are happy and adequately trained from a technical standpoint, then there really isn't much distinction between the two. In fact, UNC is probably the better choice (aside from the tremendous operative experience [not just volume] Duke residents get). If you want a launchpad for an academic career, Duke, along with other "academic" programs like Hopkins, the Brigham, &c., is the choice.
It's not about "name recognition", it's about what kind of career you want. If you want a nice, cush, community practice, why in the heck would you go to a research-oriented surgery program?--that's just silly.
All that said, here's as objective picture as possible of what Duke provides: First, Duke runs the flat-out best interview process of all surgery programs that I saw. They're organized, there's none of this idle residents wandering in and out and talking among themselves in their scrubs and finagling free food; a representative from each year gives a presentation of what happens in their year, and the Chiefs are responsible for coordinating the process and making sure applicants aren't stuck staring off in space. Each applicant feels that the Program is paying attention to them as an individual, and the number of interviewees is low (as opposed to the Brigham, for example).
Yes, they are traditional...so applicants have to decide whether they like this or not--this is purely personal preference. Their reason for the formal approach is that you know exactly what is expected of you as a trainee. Some people do better in less structured environments.
As for resident camaraderie--actually many residents do socialize with one another outside of the hospital (e.g. meeting at the local trendy bar). It's hard to generalize about such a thing, because dynamics vary from year to year at ANY program.
Yes, interns and JARs wear short coats and white pants, this is probably a bit silly--the only advantage is that people know who they are talking to when they are talking with a surgery resident. Though wearing scrubs outside the OR area is not the mortal sin it used to be; no one wears scrubs in the clinic or when rounding. It's just another feature of the formal nature of the program. Sabiston's original intent was that patients at a training hospital cannot "pick" their doctor, thus it's incumbent on house staff to look as professional as possible.
Decide what you want, and then the distinction between any Duke-type program and UNC-type program is clear.
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Triathlete...Let's lay the groundwork: my blood runs Carolina Blue too, but come on now...
I'll pay you to keep screaming the propaganda, 'cause it makes my chances better. If you want to be a community surgeon, then that's great; and Carolina and Duke can produce those just fine. The majority of folks at Duke however, plan for fellowships, and tend to get them at high power places.
White pants...who cares.
I play golf with the lab residents every Monday afternoon, and so I don't know about the camraderie thing... The only thing that I envy Carolina for (and probably played a huge part in my going there for undergrad) are the girls.
I'll pay you to keep screaming the propaganda, 'cause it makes my chances better. If you want to be a community surgeon, then that's great; and Carolina and Duke can produce those just fine. The majority of folks at Duke however, plan for fellowships, and tend to get them at high power places.
White pants...who cares.
I play golf with the lab residents every Monday afternoon, and so I don't know about the camraderie thing... The only thing that I envy Carolina for (and probably played a huge part in my going there for undergrad) are the girls.
