Duke Univ, others: Step 1 AND Step 2 req.?

[SLUsagar]

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In my search for places to apply and their subsequent requirements, I've come across only a few that ask for both STEP 1 AND 2 -- specifically Duke Univ for example.

Anyone else found anything similar probs w/places asking that you have STEP 2 just to apply?

yaah and others, COMMENTS?????????

 

[caffeinegirl]

Hey there

there are a greater number of programs in path than other specialties that require Step 2 for application.... many others "strongly recommend" Step 2. From what I've seen on this forum, it's really up to you..
check what the programs you're applying to require
evaluate your Step 1 score, and decide if you need step 2...
this would depend on whether it's a requirement for the program and/or if your step 1 score was weak.

Another strategy would be to release your usmle transcript to eras BEFORE you take step 2. Then take step 2 like in Sept/October, and depending on those results you can update your usmle transcript on ERAS to reflect those changes.

Hope this helps!

 

[deschutes]

my $0.02...

I found more programs than I was expecting who either wanted Step 2 scores (a) at application, or (b) by the time the rank-order lists closed.

UMich told me they wanted Step 2 scores by November. I believe all of New Hampshire wants Step 2 scores by December - heard it's a state licensing thing. UIowa said they wanted them by the time the ROLs were in - I have some other names in this category that I can't remember off-hand.

Thing is, I was asking this question after they knew that I was a Canadian student. So I am not sure if the perception of me being an IMG affected their responses.

Bottomline: I would agree with caffeinegirl's approach.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

my $0.02...

I found more programs than I was expecting who either wanted Step 2 scores (a) at application, or (b) by the time the rank-order lists closed.

UMich told me they wanted Step 2 scores by November. I believe all of New Hampshire wants Step 2 scores by December - heard it's a state licensing thing. UIowa said they wanted them by the time the ROLs were in - I have some other names in this category that I can't remember off-hand.

Thing is, I was asking this question after they knew that I was a Canadian student. So I am not sure if the perception of me being an IMG affected their responses.

Bottomline: I would agree with caffeinegirl's approach.

Oh well I guess I'm screwed. I'm taking step 2 in mid-December...for a reason. But now I feel foolish in doing so.

 

[yaah]

Well, deschutes, that might be an IMG requirement - Michigan didn't comment about my step II when I visited in November. I took step II two days before christmas. Dartmouth was the only one that told me it was required to be passed. They say that they require people to pass step II before January 1, however when I was there they told me that is only required because they want to make sure people have enough time to take it again before the rank lists go out. I forget what the exact new hampshire law is. Iowa didn't mention it to me either.

I did what others recommended - take step II after submitting ERAS but well before ROL was due, that way if I did well I could submit the score to different programs, plus it would also give me an excuse to write to my favorite programs to let them know I was still interested, and by the way here's my step II score.

Some med schools require their students to take step II before the end of december.

Still though, while it is recommended, I don't think it is necessarily required. I would recommend getting it out of the way. Worst case scenario, you fail, you can take it again. Best case scenario, you can do what I did.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Best case scenario, you can do what I did.

Yep...and if you're truly as smart as yaah, this truly IS the best case scenario. 😉

Seriously speaking, I'm taking Step II in mid-December. I predict that I'm gonna be sick thinking about it considering that I finish med school on October 22nd. I don't foresee myself studying a whole 6-7 weeks for Step II; I think I'd go crazy.

 

[2005]

Andy,
I have to take the bait. I've seen you comment several times that you'll be done with med school in October. How does that happen and what are you doing until residency starts?

 

[deschutes]

I'm still waffling about Step 2. I want to make up my mind but I'd like input from those who have done it.

If I do it in December, I will only have completed 4.5 of the 7 mandatory rotations, with 1/2 of Ob/Gyn as well as Anaes and Surg to go and no holidays/study break except for the end-of-year 2-weeker. Is it possible to score >85 on Step 2 with that sort of background? I know nothing about AN & Surg at this point. It sounds masochistic to have to stress out over Step 2 while trying to pass 3rd year clinicals, but maybe I just need a swift kick in the behind.

And let's not talk about Step 2 CS for now.

I took Step 1 on New Year's Eve 2003. I kept surprising Security, who kept surprising me in the empty hollow halls. 😱 I would like to not have to do that again this year, but what the hey. It's not as if I'm going anywhere Christmas/New Year's.

Gawd the things I do for path.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Andy,
I have to take the bait. I've seen you comment several times that you'll be done with med school in October. How does that happen and what are you doing until residency starts?

Gotcha! I'm gonna fire up the grill.

Seriously, I finish in October because my 4th year of med school only consists of 4 months and a vacation month. Why is that? That's what the MD/PhD students do at my school. The program pays tuition for our education and doesn't pay for a bunch of electives. So hence, we only get to do 2 subinternship months, 2 electives, and then the vacation month. Since my buddy's wedding is at the end of October and I'm the best man in it, I wanted to get med school completely over with beforehand. So I decided to complete my 4th year during July, August, September, October and take November as my vacation month.

What will I be doing until residency starts? Several things in no particular order:
1) Postdoc research in the lab where I did my PhD research in. Got a couple of projects I wanna finish up and a manuscript or two to complete.
2) Go to the bar with my buds and reminisce laughing about how ridiculous medical school was.
3) Enroll in alcohol rehab. (yes I think I need to cut down, yes I get angry and annoyed when people approach me about drinking, yes I feel guilty about it, and I just had my eye opener).
4) Travel to exotic countries (mostly during spring time though).
5) Study a bit for Step 2.
6) Go to interviews.

 

[SLUsagar]

i plan on taking both step2's cs/ck in late Jan 2005. too late..?.. i hope not

Dechutes, u wrote:
I found more programs than I was expecting who either wanted Step 2 scores (a) at application, or (b) by the time the rank-order lists closed.

You really found programs that said (b) was sufficient? wow, that gives me hope then. I'll have to physically call places and ask more details. A few of the places that posted on the website req. as wanting step 1 and 2 actually said step1 would be sufficient, while others simply haven't replied to me.
Then there's DUKE Univ that boldly demands both steps as well as a minimum score!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Here's Duke's official stance regarding deadlines...just checked out their residency homepage for the first time today:

Medical student candidates must be graduates of approved medical schools in the United States or Canada. International graduates* must have ECFMG certification. All applications must be submitted through ERAS and accompanying documentation (curriculum vitae, personal statement, and three (3) letters of recommendation, deans letter and transcript) must be received by November 15th. All applicants must have passed steps I and II of the USMLE with a minimum score of 80 on both.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic but it doesn't formally say here that applicants must have taken step 2 by nov. 15th.

 

[deschutes]

Allow me to clarify the spirit behind my initial post of Aug 7...

I didn't mean to mislead anyone about requirements for US seniors vs. IMGs/Canadian grads, and noted as much in said post. I was merely thinking at the time that the info re: Step 2 might save some people some long-distance phonecalls - guess not!

I found more programs than I was expecting who either wanted Step 2 scores (a) at application, or (b) by the time the rank-order lists closed.

SLUsagar, (b) to me is still a bummer because from what I understand, to have scores available by the time the ROLs close means taking it in late December as it takes 6 weeks for the scores to be released if you want to see the scores before the programs do.

Since Aug 7, I have run into some programs outside of Dartmouth who said they wanted Step 2 scores, even before they heard I was a Canadian grad. (And no, it's not because I sound like a foreign grad - Americans have told me I sound Canadian and Canadians have told me I sound... British.)

All applicants must have passed steps I and II of the USMLE with a minimum score of 80 on both.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic but it doesn't formally say here that applicants must have taken step 2 by nov. 15th.

I have seen almost identical statements on most residency program websites. My question is - why would they specify a requirement for a Step 2 score >80 unless they wanted it to help them make out their rank list?

Am I thinking too much? I hope so.

All the experience stories I've heard is leading me to think that a lot of these website statements re: scores are CYA (for lack of a better term).

I'm now tempted to burn some cash applying to the places that told me they needed scores by February or earlier.

 

[SLUsagar]

in my freaking out about not having step 2 until Jan 2005, i asked my advisor/PD about the situation. She strongly suggested i disregard a programs claim that they req step 2. She said maybe a harvard or so program might actually stick to this, but most will not and should interview w/just step 1, assuming you are AT LEAST a decent student, who speaks English, has 2 eyeballs to look thru scopes, and knows the difference btw a live pt and a cadaver.

 

[deschutes]

SLUsagar - thank you much! That was good to hear - I know I have two eyeballs.

Burn cash... woohoo!!

Wake Forest mailed me something interesting today - "Step 2 scores are required during the first year after graduation".

 

[SLUsagar]

??? deschutes, that is weird indeed, step 2 req after the first year...?
isn't step 2 required BEFORE you get 1st year resid. i.e. just to get your MD?

?
On WF website, all they say is they need LOR etc etc and USMLE scores, no real specification as far as i know. BUt i'm interested in your reply!

 

[deschutes]

I know... doesn't make any sense to me either.

Pragmatically-speaking, I think I'm going to disregard it, and apply your PD/advisor's rule to the whole process.