Duke vs. WashU

[LumberJack]

I'm been finished with my interviews for a while, and now I'm having just a little tinge of hesitation about the relative ranking of these programs on my list. In other words, right now Duke is a solid #1 but WashU is only slightly behind.

I'll provide some limits to the discussion, as I'm perfectly capable of reading fellowship match lists and deciding between St. Louis and Durham on my own. Specifically, I would appreciate any thoughts on how these two programs compare in terms of clinical rigor, resident autonomy, mentorship, exposure to procedures, and general level of clinical education. If you feel the need to use terms such as "cush" or "malignant" then please provide justification. I've found these labels mean very little once I've seen these programs in person.

Thanks for the help, SDN wizards. To the applicants--good luck with the rest of your interviews!

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[HarryGary]

Can't go wrong with either. Wash U is more on the cush side. Duke more on the malignant. Both are awesome baller residencies. You should be pumped to match at either.

 

[2heavy]

Within 6 months of my intern year at Wash U I was certified in central lines, paracentesis, abg, LP. On every patient room is their doctor's name and that is always the intern. All consultants provide input directly to the intern, and 99% of all orders, tasks, etc. go directly through the intern. I feel very autonomous. Can't say much regarding Duke as I only have my interview their to go off of.

 

[gutonc]

I'm been finished with my interviews for a while, and now I'm having just a little tinge of hesitation about the relative ranking of these programs on my list. In other words, right now Duke is a solid #1 but WashU is only slightly behind.

I'll provide some limits to the discussion, as I'm perfectly capable of reading fellowship match lists and deciding between St. Louis and Durham on my own. Specifically, I would appreciate any thoughts on how these two programs compare in terms of clinical rigor, resident autonomy, mentorship, exposure to procedures, and general level of clinical education. If you feel the need to use terms such as "cush" or "malignant" then please provide justification. I've found these labels mean very little once I've seen these programs in person.

Thanks for the help, SDN wizards. To the applicants--good luck with the rest of your interviews!

I love you wo/man.

I was initially going to just smash your post into the "Help Me Rank" megathread with all the other "I interviewed at 4 community programs nobody has ever heard of...help me rank them based on my chances of getting a cards spot at Duke" and "I interviewed at 14 of the Top 10 programs in the country, I have no geographic preference, don't know what I want to do after residency and I'm putting them here in random order" posts. But since you asked a very specific, if not particularly answerable question, I'm going to leave it alone.

To get to your question, I think you're probably splitting hairs here. If you go with your gut on this one, you're going to be fine. I had a bad "gut" reaction to WashU that had nothing to do with the training and everything to do with the culture of the program. But I'm man enough to admit that, had I clicked better there, it would have been a great place to be. Duke rejected me...so F*** them (kidding...kind of).

 

[LumberJack]

Thanks to everyone. I agree that this may be splitting hairs. It occurs to me that to a large extent you get what you put into a residency. By that, I mean that if you want to do procedures and have lots of autonomy, then such will be the case.

Revelations of obviousness aside, I continue to appreciate any insight or opinions you guys may have.

 

[KRichards62]

Both great programs and very comparable regarding the specifics you asked about. For what it's worth - I got the sense that Duke is the "Harvard reject" crowd and therefore tend to have a chip on their shoulder for perpetually being in the bottom half of the top 10 (i.e. lots of falsely inflated ego). WashU seems to be more comfortable with their position as an academic powerhouse tucked away in the midwest.

 

[HarryGary]

Both great programs and very comparable regarding the specifics you asked about. For what it's worth - I got the sense that Duke is the "Harvard reject" crowd and therefore tend to have a chip on their shoulder for perpetually being in the bottom half of the top 10 (i.e. lots of falsely inflated ego). WashU seems to be more comfortable with their position as an academic powerhouse tucked away in the midwest.

Probably the most negative way to look at a wonderful program.

 

[LumberJack]

Probably the most negative way to look at a wonderful program.

Yes.

 

[docsaab]

Within 6 months of my intern year at Wash U I was certified in central lines, paracentesis, abg, LP. On every patient room is their doctor's name and that is always the intern. All consultants provide input directly to the intern, and 99% of all orders, tasks, etc. go directly through the intern. I feel very autonomous. Can't say much regarding Duke as I only have my interview their to go off of.

Just wondering - certified by who?

 

[LumberJack]

Just wondering - certified by who?

I'm pretty sure he just means that he was "signed off" in terms of the institution's policy for performing procedures independently.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

I'm pretty sure he just means that he was "signed off" in terms of the institution's policy for performing procedures independently.

Correct.

I was in the same position many full moons ago. I would say WashU is more supportive crowd and really concerned about your well being - really involved PD and the Chaiman. The program itself is laid back and no one is breathing down your neck. This is just hear say but there is no Durham regional ICU to prep you until you are "deemed fit" to be in Duke ICU.

Both places will give you opportunities you need and open doors. I'm not sure about Duke, but at WashU, you have mentors in medicine program that gives you real money to do research and C-STAR to give you protected time and course work for that research if you so desire. If you are into global health, your 1 month outside US is paid for - I am not sure if it's paid for at Duke or you pay for it - but both programs have well developed global health programs if you are into that. You will get to do a ton of procedures at both programs but the absolute numbers depend on you - the program is going to give you basic minimum after that its up to you. We have had residents put in temp pacer wires, multiple swan-ganz, multiple bone marrow biopsies not because these are required but they were interested and seek those procedure when the opportunity was there.

But if your gut feeling said, Duke then go with that. You can't go wrong with either.