Early Decision and MSTP Admissions

[ninebillion]

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Can early decision positively affect (e.g., faster decision, higher likelihood of acceptance, etc.) an MSTP application?

 

[surge]

I wasn't aware MD/PhD programs had early decision. Which schools are you talking about?

 

[Gradient Echo]

I agree with surge. I've never heard of an MSTP that participates in early decision.

 

[nothingman]

I don't know of any others, but Penn's MD/PhD is offering Early Decision as of this coming year...

http://www.med.upenn.edu/md_phd/students/

 

[surge]

Very interesting. I'm not sure how an MD/PhD program would profit from doing that, but obviously they feel they would.

On the applicant side, however, my impression has always been that early decision is, if anything, more competitive than the regular process. Of course, you get the benefit of knowing early. I wonder if they would consider people who don't get in early decision in the regular process.

 

[Newquagmire]

I was also surprised to find this on the Penn website a week ago since I had already submitted my AMCAS by then. It was quite a shock to me. For a lot of places, ED seems to be a little more competitive, but there's often a higher acceptance rate too. Since I already submitted, it's too late for me to change, so I'm not really worrying about it at the moment.

 

[Primate]

In general, early admission favors a university. In order to apply for early admit, one commits to matriculating there should the offer be proffered (how lyrical). Typically, early acceptances are only handed out to high calibre applicants. This effectively locks in some high-end talent early in the decision cycle, and the university then competes with everyone else for the remaining students. The obvious benefit here is that the school has some aces in the hole and doesn't have to worry about competing with other universities for every single spot (which is driving many PDs crazy at the moment - there is a huge competition for talent as the top programs are expanding and the student pool is not, at the moment).

From a student perspective, be sure you want that school as your #1 choice when you apply, 'cuz you're obligated should you get what you ask for (typically).

And, yes, schools will typically consider you in the regular process should you fail to get an early offer. The only risk is in actually getting in!

P

 

[Neuronix]

I agree with Primate. This past year, I wonder how many of Penn's first choices actually came there. Instead, almost everyone I know who came there came off the waitlist (myself included) very late in the season. Maybe they're trying to bring this down.

I dunno, I'll have to ask.

 

[Newquagmire]

The big concern for me is that you can't apply to any other schools until Oct 1. For me, this sounds like a big disadvantage to the applicant.

 

[magpie]

There was an article in the New York Times last year regarding early decision programs (I'm too cheap to pay the fee to retrieve it from the on line archives). The article said that UPenn had used early decision to greatly reduce the number of offers it had to make to fill its undergraduate class. My memory is a bit hazy, but I seem to recall that something like 70% of Penn's undergrad class is filled by early decision applicants. Using early decision allowed Penn's selectivity rating to skyrocket and make it a much tougher institution to get into. This allowed Penn to be able to say that its admission was more competitive than some of the other Ivies, and also to raise its standing in rankings that look at the number of offers made for each opening. The author of the article felt that early decision benefits the institution and the person that applies e.d., but harms the individual that wants to look at a number of options before making a decision.

I guess that the thinking at Penn's MSTP is that they will be able to improve their yield by filling part of their class with e.d. people, so that instead of having to make 50 offers to fill 20 spots (hypothetically), they may only need to make 30 offers. This would save them some work because they might be able to interview fewer applicants, and it allow them to say that their program is more difficult to get into than others. In addition, they will probably not need to relay as much on the wait list to fill their class. I guess this could be a good thing. For instance, people interested in Penn merely as a backup will not be holding spots that they do not really want (while waiting for offers from other schools); in the past, this has resulted in others being stuck on the Penn waitlist for long periods of time. Still, as an applicant I would be concerned about locking myself into a single program without having an opportunity to look at everything that is out there. It will be interesting to see how this works out & whether other programs follow their lead.

 

[Neuronix]

Originally posted by magpie
For instance, people interested in Penn merely as a backup will not be holding spots that they do not really want (while waiting for offers from other schools); in the past, this has resulted in others being stuck on the Penn waitlist for long periods of time.

I am fairly certain that Penn waited until May 15th to look at its waitlist regardless of how many students withdrew before that date. I can't say this for sure, because they wouldn't give me firm numbers on how many they wanted to accept and how many they accepted in the first batch. However, I'm convinced of this timetable from conversations with faculty, other applicants (at least 5 of which who withdrew well before May 15th), and matriculants. From there, Penn did not actually extend acceptances until they brought applicants back and heard that they were definately going to come if granted an acceptance. Almost every other program was offering waitlist positions well before May 15th, but as far as I know, Penn did not.

All of this waiting denied a bunch of people the opportunity to do a summer rotation. I wish they'd change their admissions procedures for future applicants.

If the MSTP really has shifted to an early decision program, I think magpie's reasons are right on the money. It really benefits the program and not the applicant. My personal advice to applicants: DO NOT APPLY EDP ANYWHERE! Apply to a range of schools, go there, and see what you like. Your opinions of places and maybe what you want in schools will change as you apply. Don't get locked into anything too early.

 

[surge]

Originally posted by Neuronix
DO NOT APPLY EDP ANYWHERE! Apply to a range of schools, go there, and see what you like. Your opinions of places and maybe what you want in schools will change as you apply. Don't get locked into anything too early.

Ditto.

 

[Primate]

If you're good enough for EDP, you'll prolly have a choice in the end. EDP only cuts down anxiety in the short run. It may increase it in the end (if you start thinking about where else you could have gone).

That said, EDP at the right place isn't so bad. 😉

P

 

[DarkChild]

another huge downside to applying ED as an MSTP is that before interviewing (and even before revisiting really) you dont have a good feel for the school. given the extended length of these programs i think its even more important to make sure that you really fit with the school. especially when you get into your phd years, then the academic environment will really start to take a huge toll on you if you just dont jive with the school. since there is no real way to meet researchers and talk to MD/PhD students before hand, I dont think ED is a good idea.

 

[Newquagmire]

No doubt. I've heard it said that what an applicant wants in a school will change just about every week. I didn't really believe it until now. I know I've shifted my list around quite a bit since I started trying to seriously decide where I want to end up.

That said, the places where I wanted to be (at first) are still at the top of my "list." But I haven't actually visited or revisited any of those yet.