Echo certification necessary after CT fellowship?

[Metalblade]

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Hey people,

I would appreciate your input on a decision I'm contemplating. I've been out of residency a year and am considering going back to do a cardiac fellowship.

I was wondering how important is to get echo certified to do cardiac in the real world? Do private practice groups care if you are or not? Do you need it to bill for TEE?

After the orals, I'm not sure I want to go through the exhaustive process of preparing and taking this exam. I've heard most cardiac guys in private practice aren't certified. Thanks!

 

[sevoflurane]

If you are going through the trouble of doing a fellowship, why not sit for the Echo boards?

Another option:

You and I both don't have to do a CT fellowship to sit for the Echo boards. I believe the last class that could do this was the gradutating class of 2009.

I'm not echo certified although I am contemplating taking the exam without the fellowship. You just have to read and do bunch of cases (300 I think) and have someone who is certified sign off on them.

I read and bill for my own echo's. No cardiology presence in my CT cases. In my group, only 1 of 4 is Echo certified.

 

[aredoubleyou]

I've heard most cardiac guys in private practice aren't certified. Thanks!

I think thats changing, progressively towards more certification. Unquestionably you don't need to be certified or fellowship trained to do hearts. Being young guys, its harder to get on the heart team in big groups without those things now. And yes, you bill for TEE exam, its a question of when and if payers will require a certification for reimbursement. As far as I know that is not yet the case, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[IlDestriero]

If you are going through the trouble of doing a fellowship, why not sit for the Echo boards?

One of the primary goals of the fellowship is to prepare you for the Echo certification. I could have done cardiac after residency with my experience if I wanted, and some did. I'm sure most residents could, especially if they did an extra couple months of CV and/or CVICU in CA3. If you don't want to get certified, why do the fellowship at all.😕

 

[deleted126335]

Right now having the skills are more important than having the fellowship or the echo certification. Over the course of your career the value of having the fellowship and the certification will only go up. It would not surprise if the number of open heart programs in the US shrinks quite a bit in the next decade or two and the price of entry in some markets to do cardiac anesthesia will be echo certification. It will only get harder to prepare for the exam the further away that you get from your training. From what I have heard, passing the exam for a fellowship trained cardiac doc is not that hard.

 

[BLADEMDA]

One of the primary goals of the fellowship is to prepare you for the Echo certification. I could have done cardiac after residency with my experience if I wanted, and some did. I'm sure most residents could, especially if they did an extra couple months of CV and/or CVICU in CA3. If you don't want to get certified, why do the fellowship at all.😕

Agree completely.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

One of the primary goals of the fellowship is to prepare you for the Echo certification. I could have done cardiac after residency with my experience if I wanted, and some did. I'm sure most residents could, especially if they did an extra couple months of CV and/or CVICU in CA3. If you don't want to get certified, why do the fellowship at all.😕

I was browsing around and the certification board I found was The National Board of Echocardiography. Is this the board a fellow would get certified with? On their site they have:

Levels of Certification

Certification is offered in

• Transthoracic 2-D and Doppler Echocardiography interpretation alone (t),
• Transesophageal Echocardiography (e),
• Transthoracic plus Transesophageal Echocardiography (te),
• Transthoracic plus Stress Echocardiography (ts), or
• Comprehensive (c) which includes all three procedures above.
• Advanced Perioperative Transesophageal Echocardiography
• Basic Perioperative Transesophageal Echocardiography

Physicians who have been certified in Transthoracic Echocardiography (or higher) by the NBE may apply for additional certification once their level of service meets the minimum requirements.

Someone said you don't need a fellowship to get basic certification (the bottom one on the list, I assume), but need a fellowship to get the advanced. Would an anesthesiologists get the (te) cert to be certified in transthoracic too? Just curious. Thanks!

 

[Metalblade]

My reasons for considering a cardiac fellowship are 1) I do enjoy it 2) to make me more marketable for jobs.

After I graduated from residency, I had a hard time finding a job. I was restricted to a metropolitan area out of preference and my wife's work. I'm not particularly happy with the gig I have now and the job market still looks a little tight. I thought doing a cardiac fellowship would give me another skill and make me more marketable.

I'm not too keen on taking another board exam. I was trying to assess how important it is to private practice groups that you can do cardiac cases and echo in the OR, but not have the certification?

I was also thinking of going to non accredited programs, as the income loss isn't as great, and I've heard sometimes they let you do 6 months of training. Can anyone verify this? I graduated before 2009 so if I wanted to do get certified in the future I can without an accredited fellowship.

Thanks for all the responses. Appreciate it.

 

[aredoubleyou]

My reasons for considering a cardiac fellowship are 1) I do enjoy it 2) to make me more marketable for jobs.

After I graduated from residency, I had a hard time finding a job. I was restricted to a metropolitan area out of preference and my wife's work. I'm not particularly happy with the gig I have now and the job market still looks a little tight. I thought doing a cardiac fellowship would give me another skill and make me more marketable.

I'm not too keen on taking another board exam. I was trying to assess how important it is to private practice groups that you can do cardiac cases and echo in the OR, but not have the certification?

I was also thinking of going to non accredited programs, as the income loss isn't as great, and I've heard sometimes they let you do 6 months of training. Can anyone verify this? I graduated before 2009 so if I wanted to do get certified in the future I can without an accredited fellowship.

Thanks for all the responses. Appreciate it.

I have no doubt that in your head, and with your circumstance, this all makes sense to you. To me, and probably most everybody else, this is complete nonsensical rubbish. If you want to increase your stock, then do a real fellowship at a place people have heard of, and get the certificate. 6 month training fellowships are for desperate people in desperate situations.

 

[maceo]

just another BS board to report to and give moneytoo. great.. sign me up right away. you can find a cardiac job anywhere if you are truly interested in cardiac which I dont know why one would be. cases are too long, payer mix is terrible, surgeons think they are god. That room has everything that I am not interested in. plus the friggin cases are NOT that hard at all. its cook book. A cardiac fellowhip is a waste of a year. my 2 cents On top of that .. you work twice as hard as the cardiac guy

 

[IlDestriero]

just another BS board to report to and give moneytoo. great.. sign me up right away. you can find a cardiac job anywhere if you are truly interested in cardiac which I dont know why one would be. cases are too long, payer mix is terrible, surgeons think they are god. That room has everything that I am not interested in. plus the friggin cases are NOT that hard at all. its cook book. A cardiac fellowhip is a waste of a year. my 2 cents On top of that .. you work twice as hard as the cardiac guy

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