ECs Grocery Store Work

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Good thread OP.

I have a question about non-trads applying since I'm looking into working abroad for 2-3 years after graduating college.

Didn't you have this job ~10 yrs ago Studyshy? For older applicants, is it still appropriate to list college activities that could have possibly taken place this long ago (yet still were significant at the time)? For me I'm wondering if I could still list freshman-sophomore year activities 7 years in the future when I apply, if I were to wait that long.

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I practically worked full time throughout college in order to help pay the bills along with intermittent volunteer opportunities around. I'm definitely putting that on my application and even will be mentioning it in my personal statement (since my GPA did suffer a bit as a result). Its weird that among my friends who were privileged, a lot of them still worked either on or off campus jobs, so I can see why some people might find it weird that even kids who come from money don't work.
 
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Good thread OP.

I have a question about non-trads applying since I'm looking into working abroad for 2-3 years after graduating college.

Didn't you have this job ~10 yrs ago Studyshy? For older applicants, is it still appropriate to list college activities that could have possibly taken place this long ago (yet still were significant at the time)? For me I'm wondering if I could still list freshman-sophomore year activities 7 years in the future when I apply, if I were to wait that long.

Well, you still get the same 15 slots as anyone else, so I guess if you've filled up all the other slots with more recent stuff and still remember some quality stuff from undergrad, why not?
 
There's a new autobiographical section on the AMCAS where you should have the opportunity to clarify how you grew up; I sure you could include working through college as a continuation of growing up below the poverty line.

There are several other threads (one was quite recent) about declaring disadvantaged status, if you want to read up on that in particular.

AAMC had good reasons to use education as a proxy for socioeconomic status. While there are outliers, on a population basis when looking at thousands of medical students, for the most part, family income is correlated with parental income. And while many parents with MD, JD, PhD, MBA, etc are making big bucks, we also know that there are circumstances where due to injury, illness or economic downturns a family may not be doing as well as expected given parents' education. (Heaven knows, many college instructors are cobbling together part-time jobs at a string of colleges as tenured positions become more scarce.)

There is no longer a "disadvantaged" check box on the AMCAS application. Every applicant is given the opportunity to provide information about childhood and family.

This information is used to paint a more detailed picture of an applicant and their life experiences. It isn't a substitute for a financial aid application.

I was wondering about this with the new changes to the AMCAS application. So now it is basically left up to the adcoms to determine if the student was disadvantaged or not? This seems more reasonable. I know a lot of people were questioning whether or not they should consider themselves "disadvantaged".

Great advice. I like that schools make the designation as to 'disadvantaged' now instead of me. It's hard to make the distinction. Hopefully this helps adcoms see that hard work and overcoming obstacles can make a great applicant who maybe has less than stellar stats.
 
Great advice. I like that schools make the designation as to 'disadvantaged' now instead of me. It's hard to make the distinction. Hopefully this helps adcoms see that hard work and overcoming obstacles can make a great applicant who maybe has less than stellar stats.

I believe you still have to decide whether or not to check the box. The adcoms will just have more ammunition to call "BS" if it is, in fact, BS.
 
Good thread OP.

I have a question about non-trads applying since I'm looking into working abroad for 2-3 years after graduating college.

Didn't you have this job ~10 yrs ago Studyshy? For older applicants, is it still appropriate to list college activities that could have possibly taken place this long ago (yet still were significant at the time)? For me I'm wondering if I could still list freshman-sophomore year activities 7 years in the future when I apply, if I were to wait that long.

List tha major stuff from college (particularly anything that took >8 hrs/wk) otherwise it looks as if you did nothing while in college. I've seen applicants list stuff from 15 years earlier because it was relevant. I'd recommend listing f/t jobs regardless of when they occurred and accounting for any gaps in your education or employment of >6 mos.
 
If anything it shows proof of good time management. Grades are one thing, but when you they see that you also were managing to squeeze in hours of work at the same time, that just makes it a bit more "impressive".
 
List tha major stuff from college (particularly anything that took >8 hrs/wk) otherwise it looks as if you did nothing while in college. I've seen applicants list stuff from 15 years earlier because it was relevant. I'd recommend listing f/t jobs regardless of when they occurred and accounting for any gaps in your education or employment of >6 mos.

:thumbup: Thank you.
 
I believe you still have to decide whether or not to check the box. The adcoms will just have more ammunition to call "BS" if it is, in fact, BS.

Well darn. Oh well.

But I thought it was always possible to give an explanation of why you checked the box. If you still have to check it why does everyone need to even bother with the background info? Seems like more work to me leading to pretty much the same outcome as before.

If anything it shows proof of good time management. Grades are one thing, but when you they see that you also were managing to squeeze in hours of work at the same time, that just makes it a bit more "impressive".

Yeah the ideal is to get the 4.0 at the same time as working a full time job and studying independently for the MCAT while still making a 40! :laugh:
I do agree that I learned very early how to manage my time though. Good skill to have but I still wish I could have spent more time on studies and afforded that prep class like most of my peers.
 
Let's face it, there are only 168 hours in a week. If you can get a job where you can study while working (library circulation desk is one of the most common in this regard, late night babysitting and reception work are others) you can stretch an hour to cover two activities. Attend meetings held at mealtime and you've combined a necessary activity with a resume builder.

A few long term activities are ideal. I love seeing someone who has had at least one summer job, an academic year job, involvement in an organization for >1 year, a fun activity, a research gig, volunteering, shadowing. That's seven items. Anything more is gravy. You may think we'd prefer to see a semester's involvement in 6 differnt organizations rather than 3 years in a single organization but you'd be wrong.

LizzyM or anybody can you talk about the "Fun Activity." For it to be meaningful, do you have to do it for great than eight hours a week? I have some fun activities like my music and photography, but I consider them hobbies. I don't do a "Fun Activity" on a set schedule for greater than eight hours a week? Any advice?
 
LizzyM or anybody can you talk about the "Fun Activity." For it to be meaningful, do you have to do it for great than eight hours a week? I have some fun activities like my music and photography, but I consider them hobbies. I don't do a "Fun Activity" on a set schedule for greater than eight hours a week? Any advice?

Lmao YES you're expected to devote 8 hours a week to a consistent fun activity for 3 years. :rolleyes:
 
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Lmao YES you're expected to devote 8 hours a week to a consistent fun activity for 3 years. :rolleyes:

No seriously, I know they want well rounded people who do a lot of different stuff but I don't know how to differentiate between a fun activity and just a hobby.
 
No seriously, I know they want well rounded people who do a lot of different stuff but I don't know how to differentiate between a fun activity and just a hobby.

They are one and the same.

Unless your hobby isn't fun.
 
LizzyM or anybody can you talk about the "Fun Activity." For it to be meaningful, do you have to do it for great than eight hours a week? I have some fun activities like my music and photography, but I consider them hobbies. I don't do a "Fun Activity" on a set schedule for greater than eight hours a week? Any advice?

successful-troll-is-successful.jpg
 
LOL no. Unfortunately a lot of kids who are that wealthy are handed everything. This is the same reason rich kids do drugs too; they can afford whatever they want with their $100+ weekly allowance (and that's seriously low-balling it for some people.)

Srsly. My ex used to get ~$1000 a month during college. She always managed to go broke by the end of the month too... :rolleyes:

No seriously, I know they want well rounded people who do a lot of different stuff but I don't know how to differentiate between a fun activity and just a hobby.
calm%2Bdown%2Bbro.jpg
 
Good thread OP.

I have a question about non-trads applying since I'm looking into working abroad for 2-3 years after graduating college.

Didn't you have this job ~10 yrs ago Studyshy? For older applicants, is it still appropriate to list college activities that could have possibly taken place this long ago (yet still were significant at the time)? For me I'm wondering if I could still list freshman-sophomore year activities 7 years in the future when I apply, if I were to wait that long.

It was job that I had almost ten years ago now when I was a teenager but in college.
 
I don't care if you are >30 years old, if you worked 20+hr/wk while in college, it should go on your application to show that you were doing something other than just going to school while you were in college. If you had a full time job before college, that should go on the application even if this was >10 yrs ago because otherwise it looks like a gap on the application and that's never good.

Bottom line, anytime you were working >20 hrs/wk, put it on the application.
 
My first two years of college, I paid for medic school by working at a grocery store (20-30 hours a week). This would be very low on my EC list (like 15), but I was wondering if it was even worth mentioning at all. What is your take for others who have had menial-type jobs? Should it even go on my CV?

I cannot emphasize how important this is to put on your application if you have worked in this kind of job....It makes you sound like a normal person who has to work for what he wants and not someone who just gets by on their fathers credit card. (**not that there is anything wrong with that**)

This is one of the best questions I think I can ask when I am interviewing prospective students. It really makes you sound like a hard worker when you have worked a blue-collar job. Believe it or not, most people who go to medical school come from pretty well-off backgrounds, and never work "real jobs". Often when I ask someone in my school what their first job EVER was they say "I did research in so and so lab on whatever receptor" and they have never understood how ****ty it is to wait tables and get yelled at for $8/hr, or wake up at 430am so you can start loading trucks for the construction site.

Also working these jobs exposes you to a lot of different types of people, people who will likely never be your colleagues again. Getting to understand how they think and what is important to them (if you are from a completely different background) is one way that will allow you to make them feel comfortable around you when you are treating them.

I lived off of my parents credit card while I was in school, but my father also made me do construction work over the summers and work at supermarkets or restaurants when I had time off because it builds character and depth. To this day those were some of the best life-lessons I have ever had.
 
I cannot emphasize how important this is to put on your application if you have worked in this kind of job....It makes you sound like a normal person who has to work for what he wants and not someone who just gets by on their fathers credit card. (**not that there is anything wrong with that**)

This is one of the best questions I think I can ask when I am interviewing prospective students. It really makes you sound like a hard worker when you have worked a blue-collar job. Believe it or not, most people who go to medical school come from pretty well-off backgrounds, and never work "real jobs". Often when I ask someone in my school what their first job EVER was they say "I did research in so and so lab on whatever receptor" and they have never understood how ****ty it is to wait tables and get yelled at for $8/hr, or wake up at 430am so you can start loading trucks for the construction site.

Also working these jobs exposes you to a lot of different types of people, people who will likely never be your colleagues again. Getting to understand how they think and what is important to them (if you are from a completely different background) is one way that will allow you to make them feel comfortable around you when you are treating them.

I lived off of my parents credit card while I was in school, but my father also made me do construction work over the summers and work at supermarkets or restaurants when I had time off because it builds character and depth. To this day those were some of the best life-lessons I have ever had.

This is interesting because it makes sense. When I was 18, I actually thought people were going to look down on me because I took a job and went to school at the same time. I always thought they were going to say "Why don't you just do one or the other." I thought that because I had a part-time job, I was not a "real" student because I wasn't devoting 100% of my time to school. Looking back, I don't regret working (I have no choice because I needed to pay the bills) but I do know lots of students who did end up in med school who never worked a real job so the whole idea is confusing.
 
How do you list it when the best you can produce is a phone number but no contact person?

Additionally, LizzyM, you say to put anything down that was more than 20hrs/wk, I have been in my current position for 9 years, but held three other FT positions after college. They have no bearing on my decision to go to med school other than that they concreted in my mind that I hate lab work. Add or not?
 
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How do you list it when the best you can produce is a phone number but no contact person?

Additionally, LizzyM, you say to put anything down that was more than 20hrs/wk, I have been in my current position for 9 years, but held three other FT positions after college. They have no bearing on my decision to go to med school other than that they concreted in my mind that I hate lab work. Add or not?

Like a resume, you don't want a gap, particularly a gap reflecting 3 full time jobs. :eek: Your current position plus three other FT jobs still leaves 11 other slots for experiences so you should be fine.

With regard to phone number but no contact, all this would be used for would be to confirm that what you have listed is true. Call the store and ask who someone would contact to confirm your employment at the store. A big employer might have a human resources person and a smaller store might have just a manager who has the employment records. (They are kept for tax purposes as well as for background checks on behalf of former employees). Most employers keep these records and answer these questions (usually just start & end date) routinely.
 
Ok, wasn't sure... Sorry to thread hijack... what if one of the places is now defunct/bankrupt/closed?? I used to work for The Parker Hughes Institute, and the owner did some shady things, had his MD put on hold for 3 years, and subsequently closed the business...
 
Ok, wasn't sure... Sorry to thread hijack... what if one of the places is now defunct/bankrupt/closed?? I used to work for The Parker Hughes Institute, and the owner did some shady things, had his MD put on hold for 3 years, and subsequently closed the business...

If there is someone who knows you from there (co-worker, supervisor) then you could ask if you could use them as a reference. (You can find many folks on Facebook and Linkedin. Otherwise, I'd put "defunct business" in the contact space and "none" in the phone number space (or 555 555 5555)
 
a question concerning mentioning non-relevant work experience. the summer after my first year in college, i worked at a tanning bed while taking classes. should i mention this even though tanning is heavily frowned upon, especially by health care professionals?
 
a question concerning mentioning non-relevant work experience. the summer after my first year in college, i worked at a tanning bed while taking classes. should i mention this even though tanning is heavily frowned upon, especially by health care professionals?

LOL... this reminds me of the student who worked for the summer near the construction site of the Alaskan pipeline... as a hooker.

You aren't obligated to list every job so if you think that the negatives regarding this legal occupation outweigh the positive (customer service job, hard work, dealing with safety issues to prevent customer injuries) then don't list it.


P.S.: In 2011 it looked like AMCAS was going to do away with the "disadvantaged" box and give everyone the opportunity to answer questions about socioeconomic status in childhood. AMCAS opened up the questions to everyone but left the disadvantaged box, too, so the April 2011 posts about the box being gone are not accurate.
 
To avoid opening a new thread I will reply here...
I am not sure if I should for sure be claiming disadvantaged status. Growing up, my family qualified for WIC and the head start program. Parents divorced when I was 2 but father was involved. Mom is a teacher with a BA, Dad is a farmer with HS degree. Situation became a little bit better growing up, but I still had to work to cover any expenses past the basics. I worked appx 20 hours a week in high school and now in college I work my work study (8 hours/week), as a paramedic (PRN, it could average out to appx 12-24 hours a week over the year) and as a ward clerk (approximately 12 hours/week) My parents still pay for my insurance and my father as a farmer can get loans at a lower interest rate, thus he pays my out of pocket expenses for school as a way to make up for not paying child support. I do qualify for the full Pell grant. The area I grew up in is declared underserved for healthcare. There are only 2 doctors in my county.
Would that be adequate to claim disadvantaged?
 
To avoid opening a new thread I will reply here...
I am not sure if I should for sure be claiming disadvantaged status. Growing up, my family qualified for WIC and the head start program. Parents divorced when I was 2 but father was involved. Mom is a teacher with a BA, Dad is a farmer with HS degree. Situation became a little bit better growing up, but I still had to work to cover any expenses past the basics. I worked appx 20 hours a week in high school and now in college I work my work study (8 hours/week), as a paramedic (PRN, it could average out to appx 12-24 hours a week over the year) and as a ward clerk (approximately 12 hours/week) My parents still pay for my insurance and my father as a farmer can get loans at a lower interest rate, thus he pays my out of pocket expenses for school as a way to make up for not paying child support. I do qualify for the full Pell grant. The area I grew up in is declared underserved for healthcare. There are only 2 doctors in my county.
Would that be adequate to claim disadvantaged?

Your parents highest education attained and occupation goes on the application automatically. So does how you've paid for college (proportion from parents, from you, from need based aid, from merit aid, there might be other categories). Your jobs in college would go in the experience section.

Your county will automatically show up as underserved and it might be tagged "rural" too.

Read the prompt for disadvantaged, search your heart, and answer truthfully.
 
I'm listing all of the jobs I've had in college (not that many, but a couple blue collar). I would list it, especially since it's 20-30 hrs/wk (a significant amount of time). Adcoms see how much time you spent on all of your activities, and adding this in will demonstrate your industriousness and productivity with your time.

For those out there that disdain blue collar work or think it's impossible to glean anything from the experience about why you want to attend medical school ... I question your ability for introspection.

I definitely want to list my work too, I just want to know how much they care about the work that I did you know? I know the time I have worked especially during school is impressive, but do they want to know what I did? It's kind of like how I change my resume for certain situations. I worked at AT&T as a Technical Intern for 2 summers in a row and I have decided to set this aside from my restaurant/blue collar jobs. Is this a good idea? There are a lot of technical terms to describe my projects at AT&T or I can go the route where I just saw I worked with a group or was a team leader, etc...

What do you guys think?
 
You mean there are a lot of applicants that have never had a real job? I always thought every college kid did some type of part-time work for some spending money? This is new to me.

Yes. As we know, tons of college kids don't work in school and more don't work over the summer. You shouldn't be surprised when more than half of your med school classmates have never worked in their life. Especially if they got easy access to money from parents, not needing to work.
 
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I definitely want to list my work too, I just want to know how much they care about the work that I did you know? I know the time I have worked especially during school is impressive, but do they want to know what I did? It's kind of like how I change my resume for certain situations. I worked at AT&T as a Technical Intern for 2 summers in a row and I have decided to set this aside from my restaurant/blue collar jobs. Is this a good idea? There are a lot of technical terms to describe my projects at AT&T or I can go the route where I just saw I worked with a group or was a team leader, etc...

What do you guys think?

If it was 2 summers of f/t work, I'd separate it from the restaurant/blue collar jobs. It sounds much different. The technical stuff might make some eyes glaze over but the team work and critical thinking and problem solving aspects are all good.
 
Only if your parent has a PhD in art history or some other useless "artistic" major. :smuggrin:
Whoa there...ever seen what a Ph.D student makes? You can support a family on it, but I'm pretty sure that a $20k/yr stipend (for a science major, yeah) for 2 people, while above the poverty line, is at least close enough that you have to google to see what the poverty line actually is. It's certainly close enough that the more-than-a-fulltime-job student has to pick up weekend gigs to cover doctor's bills or AP exam fees (just trust me on that one).
 
Yes. As we know, tons of college kids don't work in school and more don't work over the summer. You shouldn't be surprised when more than half of your med school classmates have never worked in their life. Especially if they got easy access to money from parents, not needing to work.
Not surprised at all. Tuition in medical school has gotten ridiculous without a concomitant increase in value (esp. in the first 2 years). Most people entering medical school these days are quite affluent. Those who enter Caribbean schools tend to be even more affluent (in which the only requirement is a valid credit card or cash on hand, not actual good grades/stats).
 
Whoa there...ever seen what a Ph.D student makes? You can support a family on it, but I'm pretty sure that a $20k/yr stipend (for a science major, yeah) for 2 people, while above the poverty line, is at least close enough that you have to google to see what the poverty line actually is. It's certainly close enough that the more-than-a-fulltime-job student has to pick up weekend gigs to cover doctor's bills or AP exam fees (just trust me on that one).
Yeah, have YOU seen what a PhD student in Art History makes?
 
Yes. As we know, tons of college kids don't work in school and more don't work over the summer. You shouldn't be surprised when more than half of your med school classmates have never worked in their life. Especially if they got easy access to money from parents, not needing to work.

It's funny because I KNOW this, but it always is a huge surprise to me, because of the benefits I have had from working. I guess this fact is even more of a reason to show the ADCOM what role work has played in your life. It has always separated me from my peers, having to go to work and still balancing a bigger load of classes. It is only to your advantage to highlight what role that job played in to your career path, and what lessons you have learned having the responsibility of school and work at the same time.
 
If it was 2 summers of f/t work, I'd separate it from the restaurant/blue collar jobs. It sounds much different. The technical stuff might make some eyes glaze over but the team work and critical thinking and problem solving aspects are all good.

Another question, I have is can work be a most meaningful experience? Because my work at AT&T those two summers as intern showed me that that's not the path I want to take in my life. I had to do it because I would always regret not knowing what it would be like to be in an office and just to start working right away, but it just solidified my passion for medicine, because I found myself bored.
 
Another question, I have is can work be a most meaningful experience? Because my work at AT&T those two summers as intern showed me that that's not the path I want to take in my life. I had to do it because I would always regret not knowing what it would be like to be in an office and just to start working right away, but it just solidified my passion for medicine, because I found myself bored.
sure, if that is most meaningful to you... go ahead and honestly tag it as most meaningful.
 
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I don't care if you are >30 years old, if you worked 20+hr/wk while in college, it should go on your application to show that you were doing something other than just going to school while you were in college. If you had a full time job before college, that should go on the application even if this was >10 yrs ago because otherwise it looks like a gap on the application and that's never good.

Bottom line, anytime you were working >20 hrs/wk, put it on the application.
As a non-trad, would it be worth bumping something more recent off the list to mention summer jobs from a decade ago?
I already have other things listed from undergrad (TA, research, frat president) as well as FT jobs both before undergrad (clinical) and after (international English teaching). To put in the summer jobs (telemarketing, waitressing, catering, ebay sales/shop clerk) from way back when, I could potentially bump the recent TA experience (during post-bacc) as it technically appears on my transcript, though it's a little cryptic there. Or I could bump Hobbies (reading, gardening, cooking/baking). Which would be more interesting to an adcom?
 
As a non-trad, would it be worth bumping something more recent off the list to mention summer jobs from a decade ago?
I already have other things listed from undergrad (TA, research, frat president) as well as FT jobs both before undergrad (clinical) and after (international English teaching). To put in the summer jobs (telemarketing, waitressing, catering, ebay sales/shop clerk) from way back when, I could potentially bump the recent TA experience (during post-bacc) as it technically appears on my transcript, though it's a little cryptic there. Or I could bump Hobbies (reading, gardening, cooking/baking). Which would be more interesting to an adcom?
given that you have some college activities and given that getting to know you as a person are important I'd collapse hobbies into one slot, recent TA experience in one slot and leave out college summer jobs if there's no room at that point.
 
Any opinions on internships in different fields (finance, consulting etc.) during later college years, mainly to just explore the area? I first thought that it wouldn't look bad, and may even look positively to adcoms as long as you have plenty of medical/clinical experience, but now I am not so sure since if one does it during junior or senior year it may question their devotion to medicine. Do any adcoms wish to chime in?

@Goro @LizzyM
 
given that you have some college activities and given that getting to know you as a person are important I'd collapse hobbies into one slot, recent TA experience in one slot and leave out college summer jobs if there's no room at that point.
Ok.
Hobbies were already collapsed, and I'm at 15 slots anyway (3x long-term full-time jobs, 3x research experiences, 1x posters, 1x acknowledgements in publications, 1x volunteering, 1x clinical internship, 1x leadership, 1x hobbies, 1x honors, and 2x TAing (UG & post-bacc))
I would generally agree that I've learned useful life lessons from those summer jobs, which are relevant re: people skills and not being pretentious, but I've run out of room...
Thanks for the response :)
 
Ok.
Hobbies were already collapsed, and I'm at 15 slots anyway (3x long-term full-time jobs, 3x research experiences, 1x posters, 1x acknowledgements in publications, 1x volunteering, 1x clinical internship, 1x leadership, 1x hobbies, 1x honors, and 2x TAing (UG & post-bacc))
I would generally agree that I've learned useful life lessons from those summer jobs, which are relevant re: people skills and not being pretentious, but I've run out of room...
Thanks for the response :)
Collapse the TAing into 1 slot.
 
Collapse the TAing into 1 slot.
Can't. They're totally different and I need the explanation in one (the UG one) to fill in details for part of my PS. Like I said, I could drop the post-bacc TAing since it's technically on the transcript, but they can't be merged.
 
Can't. They're totally different and I need the explanation in one (the UG one) to fill in details for part of my PS. Like I said, I could drop the post-bacc TAing since it's technically on the transcript, but they can't be merged.
Put 'TA'
Do a long explanation of the important one
Then add in just one line of "also I TA'd during my postbacc"

Be creative
 
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The thought that you're not interested in Medicine would cross my mind.


but now I am not so sure since if one does it during junior or senior year it may question their devotion to medicine. Do any adcoms wish to chime in?
 
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