educationaly disadvantaged

[igcgnerd]

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This was brought up at a pre med meeting and I couldn't answer this myself:
Does being a first generation college student or come from a blue collar working family constitue educational disadvantage? What about putting yourself throug college by working full time?

 

[LJoo83]

good question. i myself work full time and it sucks.
oh well. sleep is just a suggested activity right?

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

This was brought up at a pre med meeting and I couldn't answer this myself:
Does being a first generation college student or come from a blue collar working family constitue educational disadvantage? What about putting yourself throug college by working full time?

No, my parents went to college and they're both idiots.

Working might affect the time you have to study, but sacrificing TV time can make up for it.

 

[braluk]

Im a first generation college student and worked 3 jobs (which KILLED my UG GPA) but didn't file for being educationally disadvantaged. I always thought that being educationally disadvantaged meant learning disabilities, other predisposing factors out of your hands that affect your education, but im not sure.

 

[mdvargas]

I think so... I'm the first one in the family to attend college and working while in school is no option for me. I'm doing my finals this week and my parents have no idea why I have to study so much, oh and don't even ask what they think about med school's application process. I can't stand to hear another "so, did you get accepted yet?"

 

[mdvargas]

I always thought that being educationally disadvantaged meant learning disabilities, other predisposing factors out of your hands that affect your education, but im not sure.

That could be true also.

 

[etf]

i put that i was educationally disadvantaged because i went to berkeley. didn't work.

 

[notdeadyet]

Does being a first generation college student or come from a blue collar working family constitue educational disadvantage? What about putting yourself throug college by working full time?

No. I believe educational disadvantage pertains to your pre-college experiences, not college.

 

[tinker_rebel]

Well I think that does not constitute educational disadvantage. I think that status applies if you went to a poorly funded high school with a bad curriculum (no AP/honors available), or if you have some kind of learning disability. I myself am a first generation college student, worked throughout college and most of high school, and am now working full time. However, I don't see it as being disadvantaged educationally. Although working does take away from the time that others devote to spectacular ecs....but what can you do?

 

[Noeljan]

Yes I think it does.
I am from a similiar situation except in my case I was the first to graduate even high school.😱

 

[eagleeye]

Being a first generation college student does constitute an educational disadvatage. You ask, "Why?"...If you are in high school and you need help with trigonometry homework, who's going to help you when the people in your household think sine is what you read while driving.

Coming from a family of blue collar workers can constitute an educational disadvatage. You again ask, "Why?"...If your family can't afford sat prep courses or don't know the importance of taking sat prep courses, its a good bet that you will perform less than a person who has had an sat prep course.

If you watch the movie, Rudy, you will get an idea of educational disadvantages that affected him.

Regards,
eagleeye

 

[braluk]

Being a first generation college student does constitute an educational disadvatage. You ask, "Why?"...If you are in high school and you need help with trigonometry homework, who's going to help you when the people in your household think sine is what you read while driving.

Coming from a family of blue collar workers can constitute an educational disadvatage. You again ask, "Why?"...If your family can't afford sat prep courses or don't know the importance of taking sat prep courses, its a good bet that you will perform less than a person who has had an sat prep course.

If you watch the movie, Rudy, you will get an idea of educational disadvantages that affected him.

Regards,
eagleeye

Well the fact that you have access to the internet precludes you from being disadvantaged in the first place. You have access to the largest wealth of information in the world all at the tip of your fingertips, that someone who isfully disadvantaged may not have the luxury of having. And granted, yes, SAT prep courses, MCAT prep courses are expensive, and not everyone can afford them. But, that's not an automatic death sentence, nor an excuse, to having poor MCAT scores should you get them. In fact, I have many friends who are relatively poor, couldn't afford a prep course, and got in the mid 30s for their MCATs, in the end its about self-discipline, not expensive courses that determines your success. If it came to finances, I would imagine what educationally disadvantaged truly means is to be in near poverty- someone who has to rely paycheck to paycheck, on welfare and food stamps, terrible socioeconomic, neighborhood conditions (not to mention being the first going to graduate HS or College), and someone who really has to struggle to get by day to day and barely has what you need to do well in school.

 

[Noeljan]

Well the fact that you have access to the internet precludes you from being disadvantaged in the first place. You have access to the largest wealth of information in the world all at the tip of your fingertips, that someone who isfully disadvantaged may not have the luxury of having. If it came to finances, I would imagine the educationally disadvantaged to be in near poverty.

not true. The first time I personally was ever on a computer or internet was when I started college. Yes, once I got here and could use the schools computer I had that info at my fingertips. Can you really compare that to someone who has had such knowledge all along? I 100% argree with the previous poster who gave reasons why it is a disadvantage, exactly what I was thinking but didn't say. Also, it is hard for people who have never experienced that to really comprehend what it is like to grow up in an uneducated environment.

 

[DrBowtie]

Being a first generation college student does constitute an educational disadvatage. You ask, "Why?"...If you are in high school and you need help with trigonometry homework, who's going to help you when the people in your household think sine is what you read while driving.

Coming from a family of blue collar workers can constitute an educational disadvatage. You again ask, "Why?"...If your family can't afford sat prep courses or don't know the importance of taking sat prep courses, its a good bet that you will perform less than a person who has had an sat prep course.

If you watch the movie, Rudy, you will get an idea of educational disadvantages that affected him.

Regards,
eagleeye

How many people even with parents who hold a college degree, could ask their parents what sine was?

Unless your parents are graduates in a science field, I doubt they would know. Most people don't use trig daily in their everyday life.

 

[Noeljan]

Being a first generation college student does constitute an educational disadvatage. You ask, "Why?"...If you are in high school and you need help with trigonometry homework, who's going to help you when the people in your household think sine is what you read while driving.

Coming from a family of blue collar workers can constitute an educational disadvatage. You again ask, "Why?"...If your family can't afford sat prep courses or don't know the importance of taking sat prep courses, its a good bet that you will perform less than a person who has had an sat prep course.

If you watch the movie, Rudy, you will get an idea of educational disadvantages that affected him.

Regards,
eagleeye

100% agree.

 

[Noeljan]

How many people even with parents who hold a college degree, could ask their parents what sine was?

Unless your parents are graduates in a science field, I doubt they would know. Most people don't use trig daily in their everyday life.

Bret
it goes way beyond this. Try having parents who discouraged you from wanting to go to college, because they could NEVER understand why someone would not just want to work right out of HS. Compare that to someone with support and parental guidance along that route. Again, it is really difficult I think for people that had that to comprehend the differences and how it can affect a child.

 

[DrBowtie]

Bret
it goes way beyond this. Try having parents who discouraged you from wanting to go to college, because they could NEVER understand why someone would not just want to work right out of HS. Compare that to someone with support and parental guidance along that route. Again, it is really difficult I think for people that had that to comprehend the differences and how it can affect a child.

I agree, I was just stating how the example didn't really fit since the vast majority of the population wouldn't know either.

 

[Noeljan]

I agree, I was just stating how the example didn't really fit since the vast majority of the population wouldn't know either.

true. I also think that in some cases perhaps there are very encouraging/supportive parents who were not able to obtain an education themselves. These people could be very much into seeing their children succeed. I guess it is an indivual experiences as well, which is why there is a place for one to describe why in fact they felt at a disadvantage. So I don't mean to take anything away from those parents who were in fact supportive despite being uneducated.

 

[braluk]

I mean you bring up very valid points, but I dont think (at least I believe I dont think) that the AAMC or AMCAS recognizes any educational disadvantages except medical reasons (Im speaking from the AAMC point of view- personally Id like to see this be a valid option for many students as it exists, and it does have a real effect on students). Economically disadvantaged is the other disadvantage that they recognize. Being educationally disadvantaged seems just way too subjective (the fact that we're debating this on SDN is already a testament to that), to accurately access and grant. What makes one student have a larger educational disadvantage over another? What if two different students were both similarly educationally disadvantaged but one got straight As while the other one had straight Cs- would you reject the former applicant for educational disadvantages on the grounds that the former one has straight As and thus, needs "less help"? Educational (medically) and Economic disadvantages are well documented situations, with discrete numbers and facts, that require very little debating. Being the first to college, or having parents discourage you from furthering your education are certainly factors that affect students, but from an AAMC standpoint, way too subjective to accurately access without a judge and jury

 

[DrBowtie]

true. I also think that in some cases perhaps there are very encouraging/supportive parents who were not able to obtain an education themselves. These people could be very much into seeing their children succeed. I guess it is an indivual experiences as well, which is why there is a place for one to describe why in fact they felt at a disadvantage. So I don't mean to take anything away from those parents who were in fact supportive despite being uneducated.

Again, I agree. It's more about the attitude and environment, rather than tapping into their knowledge.

 

[eagleeye]

Well the fact that you have access to the internet precludes you from being disadvantaged in the first place. You have access to the largest wealth of information in the world all at the tip of your fingertips, that someone who isfully disadvantaged may not have the luxury of having. And granted, yes, SAT prep courses, MCAT prep courses are expensive, and not everyone can afford them. But, that's not an automatic death sentence, nor an excuse, to having poor MCAT scores should you get them. In fact, I have many friends who are relatively poor, couldn't afford a prep course, and got in the mid 30s for their MCATs, in the end its about self-discipline, not expensive courses that determines your success. If it came to finances, I would imagine what educationally disadvantaged truly means is to be in near poverty- someone who has to rely paycheck to paycheck, on welfare and food stamps, terrible socioeconomic, neighborhood conditions (not to mention being the first going to graduate HS or College), and someone who really has to struggle to get by day to day and barely has what you need to do well in school.

You may consider having internet access as a luxury. I would agree with you on that. It is a luxury having internet access in the home. However, there are thousands or maybe millions of households without that luxury. So, it is a disadvantage to take a bus or rail to the nearest library...It is a disadvantage to scrape up enough money to cover fees that the scholarships don't cover...etc...etc.

Regards,
eagleeye

 

[Noeljan]

I mean you bring up very valid points, but I dont think (at least I believe I dont think) that the AAMC or AMCAS recognizes any educational disadvantages except medical reasons (Im speaking from the AAMC point of view- personally Id like to see this be a valid option for many students as it exists, and it does have a real effect on students). Economically disadvantaged is the other disadvantage that they recognize. Being educationally disadvantaged seems just way too subjective (the fact that we're debating this on SDN is already a testament to that), to accurately access and grant. What makes one student have a larger educational disadvantage over another? What if two different students were both similarly educationally disadvantaged but one got straight As while the other one had straight Cs- would you reject the former applicant for educational disadvantages on the grounds that the former one has straight As and thus, needs "less help"? Educational (medically) and Economic disadvantages are well documented situations, with discrete numbers and facts. Being the first to college, or having parents discourage you from furthering your education are certainly factors that affect students, but from an AAMC standpoint, way too subjective to accurately access without a judge and jury

yep. I guess it varies. An applicant can list as such and explain in the essay, leaving it up to the school to decide. I do remember there being like three questions (yes or no or decline to answer) followed by an area for an essay. The questions were something like, were you or your family ever on government support; what was the income level of your family from birth to age 18, do you believe your area was underserved (which I actually put no comment, and then it was listed U by Amcas)
anyways, my point is you put the info there and explain it as well. They may or may not agree🙂

 

[Seanses]

To igcgnerd

You may be "disadvantaged" by the situation but you should never put on an application that you are a Disadvantaged Anything. Instead, your resume, the activity section of your application and your personal statement will reflect the extra challenges you may have faced while attending college, studying for MCAT etc.

Everyone has challenges and you don't want to be the one listing a normal challenge many people face as a special circumstance.

 

[eagleeye]

How many people even with parents who hold a college degree, could ask their parents what sine was?

Unless your parents are graduates in a science field, I doubt they would know. Most people don't use trig daily in their everyday life.

It was a statement and a joke. I'll tell you another joke if you laughed at the first one?.....Ok...Here it is. "If you are in high school and doing trigonometry homework, who's going to help you if members of the household think pi is what you eat with apples or cherries inside."

Regards,
eagleeye

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm a little troubled if things have degenerated in the pre-med world to the state that folks feel disadvantaged because their parents didn't go to college and they had to work through school.

Sure, we all would have done better were we born to rich PhDs, but "blue collar" is not the disadvantaged that AAMC is looking for. "Blue collar" is more than half this country.

 

[t-funk]

I think that AMCAS asks specifically if a person has been economically disadvantaged, not educationally. But oftentimes these things go hand in hand. However, if one was only educationally disadvantaged, I do not believe that it would be appropriate to consider oneself disadvantaged. I plan on indicating myself to be disadvantaged bc I grew on welfare, food stamps etc, in underserved rural communities, and my mother was in and out of mental hospitals due to bipolar disorder. I am also a 1st generation college graduate and I know how hard it is to grow up in a household where education is not valued whatsoever.
But sometimes I feel guilty about it bc my mom is also a computer whiz who now makes great money. I also have an uncle who is an obstetrician and another uncle who the head of a major astrophysics research program. Am I really that disadvantaged even though I clearly qualify to consider myself so? I don't know.

 

[Noeljan]

I'm a little troubled if things have degenerated in the pre-med world to the state that folks feel disadvantaged because their parents didn't go to college and they had to work through school.

Sure, we all would have done better were we born to rich PhDs, but "blue collar" is not the disadvantaged that AAMC is looking for. "Blue collar" is more than half this country.

The problem with your argument is we are not talking about the profession of "half the country" We are talking about trying to enter a field where excellent educational, volunteering, test scores, and opportunites come into play in order to even have a shot. I think it is a problem if we continue to deny in this country that those coming from education and money are on an equal playing field as those who do not. Look up the studies and profiles that have been done on medical students and you find in most cases, high educational attainment and income is positvely correlated with students test scores (heck this even goes for the SAT).

 

[Noeljan]

I'm a little troubled if things have degenerated in the pre-med world to the state that folks feel disadvantaged because their parents didn't go to college and they had to work through school.

Sure, we all would have done better were we born to rich PhDs, but "blue collar" is not the disadvantaged that AAMC is looking for. "Blue collar" is more than half this country.

BTW I do agree though that just because one has parents who were not educated does not nec. mean disadvantged. It is variable, as I explained in my previous post.

 

[notdeadyet]

BTW I do agree though that just because one has parents who were not educated does not nec. mean disadvantged. It is variable, as I explained in my previous post.

Only 29% of Americans between the ages of 25 to 29 have a BA or above. Not going to college does not mean not educated.

btw, I agree with your earlier posts on the thread about the criteria for what is disadvantaged.

 

[tinker_rebel]

Noeljan, I have to say you and eagleeye have swayed me a bit. I guess I just don't see myself as being disadvantaged because I went to a good high school, went to a good college too. However, the point about having blue collar parents is so true. You guys have no idea how often my family just assumed straight out of college I would work or could do research. They questioned why I would want medicine. I have one grandpa that argues with me constantly about wanting to be a doctor. Telling me I'm insane for going into that much debt when I could just be a teacher he says. They focus on the here and now, not the future. Decisions are often centered on money.To me, most parents are so proud that their child wants to be a doctor, especially if it's of the child's own persuasion.
What I mentioned earlier, the problem of spending free time working (due to financial stress) istead of on ecs, is a bigger problem to me. I've seen people with spectacular ecs that are unique and can get an application attention. I didn't have time between taking 16+ science credit loads, working part time, and medical volunteering, to do anything extraordinary. Now some may, so don't flame me there, but I sure didn't. I didn't have a car to get places. When I went home for summer, my family had one car and my grandpa works full time 2nd shift. So no way to get anywhere, except to a job to help pay for school. I'm not whining but I wish I had the opportunity to do some of the stuff some people on sdn have. Not only because it makes an application stand out, but also because it's life experience and sounds fun.
Does it make me educationally disadvantaged? I don't know...I do agree my parents could never help me with anything school related. I had to do everything on my own for college, and med school applying. Does being a first generation college student and child of blue collar parents put be at a disadvantage in this process?Yes it does, there is just no box to check to reflect that on any application.
That being said, I'm not making excuses. There are people out there in far worse situations than mine and they have gotten in. It's not impossible. Just don't check any boxes that say "disadvantaged" or what not unless you know for a fact you can defend it.

 

[MossPoh]

I'm going to say the other side of the argument now and disagree. Your parents not going to college does not automatically mean they don't understand trig, or that they are even idiots. Just as dropping out of high school doesn't mean that. The problem is that people tend to have lower intelligence that do not go to college, but that is not the case every time. I have seen statistics in one of my classes that people of supposedly equal IQ will actually wind up making around the same amount of money oftentimes, the person without the college degree just finds other ways to do it. My brother never went to college, he is the smartest person I know. He makes well into 6 figures while barely finishing high school. (He almost got expelled.) I would put money on him aiding his child and paying for college if needed over man who had parents that did go to college. But he is also in mensa, and just never felt the need for higher education when he could teach himself everything. 😛

 

[LizzyM]

Let's look at what the adcom sees when you complete the AMCAS:

Your employment during college including number of hours worked per week
The number of credit hours per semester you took
Your parents' the county where they live, most recent school attended, highest educational attainment, and their current job
Your permanent address
The place where you were born

So, without claiming disadvantage, an adcom can know that (for example) your mom never finished high school, that your dad attended junior college but didn't graduate, and they live in a rural (or urban) county where you were born. They can see that you immigrated or that you were born here but that they went to school abroad. They see what kind of employment your parents do (or that they are unemployed, disabled, retired, or deceased). They can know that you worked 3 jobs for a total of 40 hours per week while taking 15-16 credits per semester.

Now, if on top of all that, if you think that you were economically deprived during childhood (before college) because your family had a low income, received federal aid (e.g. welfare, medicaid, food stamps, free school lunch), that you worked during H.S., that you did /didn't contribute your wages to the household expenses then you can provide additional information on the AMCAS about that disadvantage.

In some cases the disadvantaged thing sheds some light on the family circumstances (parent with high education but mental illness that precluded working thus resulting in a very low family income and minimal support at home). Used wisely it can be helpful to the applicant but if one sounds like it could hurt anotherwise acceptable applicant.

 

[braluk]

These are all good points brought forth. The fact is, can you be educationally disadvantaged without being economically disadvantaged. As a previous poster had said, the two go hand in hand. All those issues brought forth before, are usually as a result of economic impairment, on one level to another (barring aside personal circumstances which should be explained in the personal statement anyway). Thus, what is the purpose of being labeled educationally disadvantaged when they already have that option listed under a different name- economically disadvantaged.

As I suggested before- its too risky to have "educational disadvantage" because its too subjective to gauge, who one is over another. I think its better for the schools to decide who has been educationally disadvantaged or not, as a previous poster suggested. All these things should be in a personal statement. No one in my family has ever graduated High School- I'm the first one to graduate high school, enter college, graduate and enter into medicine. I worked three jobs in college to pay off debts, and as a result, gotten a low GPA. I also grew up without having a computer, finally had one towards the end of high school, live in a terribly crime ridden area, had friends shot and killed before, but never once did I consider myself disadvantaged enough to have to file for some type of status. After all, I had the books, I had access to a computer SOMEWHERE, and my learning capacity was not limited by any medical condition. I eventually managed to get myself into a medical school this cycle by having a spectacular personal statement, and everything else, which explained my situation, enrolled into an SMP, and ultimately, the school made the decision to admit me. We are all disadvantaged in many ways, but I think letting the school decide that, versus one making that statement themselves, is often better (as most of that info is available, or should be available to them), and ends up with better results. If you take it from the admissions stand point, if I see your application and its littered with low grades, and then I see that you made the claim that you are educationally disadvantaged..automatically I'll be thinking one of several things 1) Does he have a documented medical condition which supports this? 2) Why is he claiming to be economically disadvantaged? Is this an excuse to his poor grades? 3) Why doesn't he just let his personal statement do the talking, does he need to make a statement to the adcoms in case we don't pick up on his situations? 4) What makes him more disadvantaged then say this applicant who makes the same income, has a similar socioeconomic background but got better grades? It would probably raise more flags than lower. Harsher schools probably see a wide spectrum of applicants. In particular, there have been many educationally disadvantaged applicants who managed to get into medical school because their stories were inspirational. I can imagine at these harsher schools, it'd be an easy means to automatically discredit your application should you file yourself as education impairment, because as LizzyM said, it could come off as , or "cry me a river", "excuse maker", especially when there are probably "tons of applicants worse off than you" who "made it". I hope I'm not sounding off as an assh@le here, I'm just taking it from how an admissions committee will probably see it realistically. I would understand what LizzyM said, that it would probably damage your application more than help it when all those factors are already in an adcoms face already without you having to spell it out for them

As I said earlier, theres alot of different factors into play, and it would be nice if this option were possible, if there were an accurate means to grant such a title. There are many people who are disadvantaged. But from the standpoint of the AAMC who is already facing heat for instituting the URM, it wouldn't make much sense to them to try to institute something else controversial. If you and a friend had requested to be considered as educationally disadvantaged, and you had straight Cs, while ur friend got straight As, and you had gotten it, but your friend didnt, does your friend have any reason to be upset? Were it his grades that got him rejected? Would your friend be wrong to assert that you "only got it" because you needed more help than me to get into med school even though we both come from the same background? Or what about the flip side of that? Or what if none of you had received it? Or both? Its just alot of gray area that Im sure the AAMC nor med schools want to deal with. Consideration of the URM "quota" (if it even exists) is already a tough enough task to handle, I sincerely doubt they want to take on another task when they can make that decision when they review your AMCAS and essays.

 

[OctoberSky]

I don't know if coming from a blue collar background necessarily qualifies you as educationally disadvantaged. However, alot of educational institutions do ask for your parents highest educational acheivement. Not going to college does tend to result in being "blue-collar". They go hand in hand.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my mom recently.

Me- Well, its tough going back to school full time is there any way you guys could help?
my mom-I don't understand. No one helped me and your father go to college.
me-Gee mom, which is exactly WHY you guys never went!!

Alot of non-degree holding parents just don't understand the blood, sweat, tears and $$$ that are shed to go to college. They never had that experience, so sometimes you completely lack a support network that many students have. They don't understand why you won't just go to the votech and start making money in a year, rather than rack up debt to get one of them thar' degrees.

Alot of stress is alleviated when you don't have to work your a#$# off at 3 jobs to go to school. Too many of us have no legacy to rely on, we've got to start our own from scratch! I feel like that does put one a couple of steps behind, but I've never used it as a crutch.

 

[eagleeye]

The fact is, can you be educationally disadvantaged without being economically disadvantaged.

The answer is yes. Our high school students in major cities have all types of students. Rich, poor, motivated and unmotivated. When a student first enters the 9th grade s/he doesn't have a choice in choosing a class with all the smart people. So, a motivated high schoool freshman may be in a class of 40 students, where almost 80% of the students are in school just to socialize. That leaves this highly motivated freshman high school student at an educational disadvatage. S/he must sit at the front of the class and strain to hear what the teacher has to say (in between all the classroom discipline). If his/her grades are good enough then s/he can transfer to the district's magnet school. Until then, s/he has to do her/his best. Also, the teacher may or may not be the most qualified teacher (that's a TFA topic).😉

Regards,
frybread

 

[braluk]

The answer is yes. Our high school students in major cities have all types of students. Rich, poor, motivated and unmotivated. When a student first enters the 9th grade s/he doesn't have a choice in choosing a class with all the smart people. So, a motivated high schoool freshman may be in a class of 40 students, where almost 80% of the students are in school just to socialize. That leaves this highly motivated freshman high school student at an educational disadvatage. S/he must sit at the front of the class and strain to hear what the teacher has to say (in between all the classroom discipline). If his/her grades are good enough then s/he can transfer to the district's magnet school. Until then, s/he has to do her/his best. Also, the teacher may or may not be the most qualified teacher (that's a TFA topic).😉

Regards,
frybread

Point noted. However, can you safely make that argument to a medical school or to the big bad AAMC and convince them to give you a disadvantaged status? Things of the High School nature seem to be forgotten when applying to medical school and SAT scores are no longer important, everything is forgiven and forgotten. If you bring up high school as the reason for an educational disadvantage, it seems like you are opening up Pandora's box of subjective arguments that might not pan out with AAMC. I'm talking more about students in college. Students in college, if they have an educational disadvantage is because its more likely an issue with having an economic disadvantage rather than an educational disadvantage, barring aside a medical condition (after all- all schools are US accredited and you learn essentially the same things in science, irregardless of poor instruction, infrastructure or otherwise).

 

[MossPoh]

The answer is yes. Our high school students in major cities have all types of students. Rich, poor, motivated and unmotivated. When a student first enters the 9th grade s/he doesn't have a choice in choosing a class with all the smart people. So, a motivated high schoool freshman may be in a class of 40 students, where almost 80% of the students are in school just to socialize. That leaves this highly motivated freshman high school student at an educational disadvatage. S/he must sit at the front of the class and strain to hear what the teacher has to say (in between all the classroom discipline). If his/her grades are good enough then s/he can transfer to the district's magnet school. Until then, s/he has to do her/his best. Also, the teacher may or may not be the most qualified teacher (that's a TFA topic).😉

Regards,
frybread

Doesn't have to be major cities. It happens everywhere. I personally feel like I haven't had a great education. I wouldn't call myself disadvantaged. In fact, I think about 14 years of my education have been a complete waste. I am usually self taught...does that count me as "disadvantaged"? I consider it more along the lines of severely add, while working a large majority of the time and then not having finances on top of it.

 

[t-funk]

I have never thought of checking the disadvantaged box as an excuse for poor performance or as a whiny type thing. I am very proud of everything I've overcome in life and how successful I have been. Taking care of my brother and sister while my mother was in the mental hospital and paying for college completely on my own amongst the many other obsticals I've faced makes me very proud. I felt like I had comerades the first or second year of undergrad with like pasts and experiences and they slowly all fell away to the point where I have yet to really meet someone who went through as much as me who has 'made it'. I'm very proud of that and sad for all of my comerades.

I feel like I am completely surrounded at work and such by people who had very advantaged childhoods and I oftentimes get sick of the judgmental coments they make about the have-nots. I even have one co-worker that basically states that statistics show that those with higher IQs make more money so obviously all those poor people are only that way because of their lack of intelligence. Somehow she fails to remember the fact that mommy and daddy paid for everything and basically assured her success while many others were just left hanging to do it on their own. Personally, I believe the disadvantaged section is an equalizer for this.

I can basically say I've jumped over this many non-numerical hurdles to get to the point that I am at. I think that this says something about my dedication, my work ethic, my ability to handle stressful situations and to take responsibility when stressful situations occur. I'm sorry, but tricking your delusional mom as a teenager to admit herself into a mental hospital in order to 'save' the residents there while she has absolutely no recognition of who you are is inherently more stressful, shows more wear-with-all, and more strength than trying to struggle work study with finals while mom and dad cover everything. And I don't plan to mention any of this in my personal statement bc I have no reason to. It has absolutely nothing to do with my reasons for wanting to go to med school. And I fully expect to have to have the same (or better) GPA, MCAT, ECs, and application as the other applicants. What I'm trying to say is that 95%+ of the people who had similar life backgrounds to me didn't make it and that means something. I think.

 

[clsr2nrvna]

Educationally disadvantaged is used to define those prior to college. Being in college proves that you are not educationally disadvantaged. Circumstances such as coming from a town where the school have no funding, lack of suitable equipment (ie. paper & pens), special ed. help, etc. The fact u can read, (and as stated above) are using a computer means that you are educationally at an advantage. Dont get me wrong, i grew up more poor than most, and i wish they gave credit for that, however that's falls under the term of "Blue Collar Depressive Syndrome", and because it is not yet recognized as a valid illness, you'll have to settle with this OTC, i've found it to be a great help:

 

[akademiks1989]

Yes I think it does.
I am from a similiar situation except in my case I was the first to graduate even high school.😱

Sounds like a lovely Kodak moment. Congratulations (belated of course!)

 

[Karina 07]

Let's look at what the adcom sees when you complete the AMCAS:

Your employment during college including number of hours worked per week
The number of credit hours per semester you took
Your parents' the county where they live, most recent school attended, highest educational attainment, and their current job
Your permanent address
The place where you were born

So, without claiming disadvantage, an adcom can know that (for example) your mom never finished high school, that your dad attended junior college but didn't graduate, and they live in a rural (or urban) county where you were born. They can see that you immigrated or that you were born here but that they went to school abroad. They see what kind of employment your parents do (or that they are unemployed, disabled, retired, or deceased). They can know that you worked 3 jobs for a total of 40 hours per week while taking 15-16 credits per semester.

Now, if on top of all that, if you think that you were economically deprived during childhood (before college) because your family had a low income, received federal aid (e.g. welfare, medicaid, food stamps, free school lunch), that you worked during H.S., that you did /didn't contribute your wages to the household expenses then you can provide additional information on the AMCAS about that disadvantage.

In some cases the disadvantaged thing sheds some light on the family circumstances (parent with high education but mental illness that precluded working thus resulting in a very low family income and minimal support at home). Used wisely it can be helpful to the applicant but if one sounds like it could hurt anotherwise acceptable applicant.

A question about ....

In my applications, I really wanted to put down something about my background: originally very poor because I lived with my very poor mom, then not because we moved in with my dad, then poor again because he had been cheating on taxes and went bankrupt and such -- but more important than all of this, there was a lot of domestic violence going on, and I moved out while in high school and don't even keep in touch with either of them at all.

But the reason I really want to include mention of all of that wherever I can is that I want to represent.

I'm proud of what I've done, I don't feel like it held me back in any way, it only forced me to succeed, and I want my strong application to help counteract images of broken women or whatnot. Mostly, it's just part of who I am, and I want to represent, as I say. Here I am, here's what I am, and look at what I did, so go us kinds of people and we're not all screwed up.

That being said, every time in the past I've mentioned it in scholarship applications, I haven't won, and I've won a *lot* (like half a dozen things) from people who had no clue. So, I think somehow mentioning it actually seems to have, historically, hurt my chances. As odd as that sounds. Which only makes me more convinced that somewhere out there is an underlying bias that I'm fighting against, which is part of why I want to represent.

So -- given all that, is it wrong to put it down on an application? Am I really hurting my chances?

 

[Karina 07]

Edit: Sorry, after a while felt uncomfortable with posting up my additional info/diversity statement.

 

[Karina 07]

P.S. If it helps, I'm a very strong applicant. So, I'm not making excuses for anything.

Anything I did wrong, that's my fault. But if you ask me what my background is, I'm sure going to want to tell you. This is me.

 

[braluk]

I think it's all how you frame it. If you mention it in passing, but don't dwel on it, thats alot better than say, spending a couple paragraphs talking about it. You are mature, I can tell from the post and your way of handling it. It wouldn't hurt if this is a relevant experience and has a relevant connection to what you may want to do in the future (perhaps going into women's healthcare to treat battered women, etc.) However, mentioning it out of the blue may strike the reader surprisingly, and may feel (at least from what Ive read in many personal statement type books) that you are holding their emotions hostage, which may be unfair to them (as in, why did you mention this? are you trying to hold my feelings hostage and make me seem like a bad person if i dont accept your application?). These are things that might hurt an application more than help it. However, I think mention something in passing, and then quickly move over it, probably gives them enough information about you that you want to convey, without having them feel like you are mentioning it deliberately to "get something from it". Does thi smake sense?

 

[eagleeye]

Point noted. However, can you safely make that argument to a medical school or to the big bad AAMC and convince them to give you a disadvantaged status? Things of the High School nature seem to be forgotten when applying to medical school and SAT scores are no longer important, everything is forgiven and forgotten. If you bring up high school as the reason for an educational disadvantage, it seems like you are opening up Pandora's box of subjective arguments that might not pan out with AAMC. I'm talking more about students in college. Students in college, if they have an educational disadvantage is because its more likely an issue with having an economic disadvantage rather than an educational disadvantage, barring aside a medical condition (after all- all schools are US accredited and you learn essentially the same things in science, irregardless of poor instruction, infrastructure or otherwise).

I have faith in the medical school admission committees. As stated before by Lizzy M, medical school admission committees can discern where educational disadvantages take place. I know that some medical school secondaries ask, "What kind of high school did you graduate from?"

The choices:
a. Urban school in a major city
b. Suburban school
c. High school with an enrollment of < 1000 students
d. Rural high school
e. Private high school

Karina 07

When you put your experiences in an essay, have more than one person read it. The people who read your essay need to be persons that you can absolutely trust and can give you an honest evaluation (i.e Health Profession Advisor, English Professor, A High School Teacher, Your Best Friend). Ask them, "Do you think it's too whiny?" There is a fine line when you put bad experiences in your essay and the committees that read them. That line is, "Are you tugging on the emotional strings of committee members?" That being said, these experiences are a part of our story and makes us who we are.

Regards,
eagleeye

 

[45408]

You may be "disadvantaged" by the situation but you should never put on an application that you are a Disadvantaged Anything. Instead, your resume, the activity section of your application and your personal statement will reflect the extra challenges you may have faced while attending college, studying for MCAT etc.

Everyone has challenges and you don't want to be the one listing a normal challenge many people face as a special circumstance.

I disagree, and so do admissions personnel I've heard talk about this. If you're genuinely disadvantaged, you should say so. Everybody thinks that a URM = black/Mexican, but schools are also looking for people who are the first in their family to go to college or other things like that. A friend of mine is a first generation college student, among other difficulties in applying, and she was invited to a luncheon by the Student Affairs office meant for disadvantaged applicants. Don't say you're disadvantaged because you had to pay your own tuition though.

 

[123165]

On the AMCAS application don't they ask about your parent's (parents') education?

 

[tncekm]

This was brought up at a pre med meeting and I couldn't answer this myself:
Does being a first generation college student or come from a blue collar working family constitue educational disadvantage? What about putting yourself throug college by working full time?

I'd give a big fat "hell yeah", not because you're not afforded the same opportunities as everyone else, but because nobody at home understands the value of an education and you have to figure that one out on your own. Uneducated families tend to not care if you have homework--its just playing in books after all, right? Get out and get a job. 😀

Now, is it an excuse for failure? Nope. Disadvantaged doesn't mean "excuse to fail" it simply means "extra obstacle".

I definitely started out on the wrong foot with my education. My education consisted of me breaking school records on absences and detentions, then switching back and forth between schools to makeup for lost credit, etc. I am not quite sure how I graduated, but all that mattered to my parents when I did graduate is that they didn't have to deal with my teachers all the time anymore b/c I was a pain in the ass.

Luckily, growing up in a home like this has taught me a lesson. I have good parents, they're nice people, but I learned some things from my family (immediate and extended) that I'll never forget, and they're lessons on what NOT to do and I think my life experiences will benefit me greatly. So, it'll all even out in the end.

The kid whose parents served him breakfast lunch and dinner on a silver platter while he studied from morning to night and had it pounded into his head that he "has" be be a doctor (lawyer, etc, etc) will have had the educational advantage, but I've got experience with weird people and bad times, valuable lessons learned in those experiences indeed! 😀

 

[BucsFan813]

Does being a first generation college student or come from a blue collar working family constitue educational disadvantage? What about putting yourself throug college by working full time?

It really depends. For example, I came from a disadvantaged background (working class parents, neither went to college), but my school district had a program that bused "disadvantaged" students to good public schools. Then I was awarded a scholarship to attend a prestigious boarding school for high school. So although my parents are working class people, I haven't had any educational disadvantage since the 6th grade. In fact, I probably had more advantage that some kids whose parents went to college and made more money.

I think educational disadvantage is based on your personal educational experienecs and not necessarily the SES of your family.

 

[lilnoelle]

I think one of the "disadvantages" in coming from a "blue collar" or lower income class background is that a child doesn't really know what their job or educational options are. The concept that I could be a doctor or even have a real career didn't even come to me till I was halfway through college. Now I feel that I came from a great background. My parents were fantastic and did a lot for me and my three siblings. There are tons of individuals who were much worse off than me. As many others have mentioned, I went to college. (Though I'm sure I wouldn't have been able to if it weren't for scholarships and grants) However, it probably took me a little longer to come to the realization of what I wanted to do than those from a more privaleged background. I also wasn't able to do much volunteering/shadowing or other exciting extracurriculars that others due to financial stressors in college and thereafter.
However, as LizzyM has already mentioned, apparently adcomm really do look at such factors, because I'm rather certain that my background helped me get into medical school or rather my background helped explain other portions of my application which would've otherwise hindered my acceptance to medical school.
Note, I didn't check the economically disadvantaged box on the application, though I found out quite a bit later I could have.