Effect of Stanford going MCAT optional

[squids82]

Hey everyone,

I saw on Reddit that Stanford had announced that they are going MCAT optional for this cycle in that any already taken scores will be reported but one can still apply/interview/matriculate without a score if they have not already taken it.

I was wondering what all your opinions on this were, as well as the opinion of ADCOMS, relating to if a current score is therefore diminished in value or if this is essentially meaningless as the vast majority will have high scores and those that are accepted without have stellar applications that would have likely scored well anyways.

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Rachapkis]

Stanford will have its pick of high quality applicants. Those accepted with an MCAT score will have high MCAT scores as well as an excellent GPAs and ECs. Those accepted without MCAT scores will be exceptional in others ways in addition to having an excellent GPA.

 

[Hzreio]

Where did you read that? Their website states no such thing

 

[Med16484]

So what if I have a relatively strong application but my mcat is a little lacking for their preference (3.9 gpa at T20 but 514 MCAT)?

 

[penguinsfan71]

So what if I have a relatively strong application but my mcat is a little lacking for their preference (3.9 gpa at T20 but 514 MCAT)?

If you already have a score, you still need to send it. But if you haven't, they aren't requiring you to take it.

 

[KnightDoc]

I actually think this is totally meaningless unless and until a significant number of peer institutions join them. What are the odds that any applicant is going to only apply to Stanford, without a score, and be accepted? Stanford's waiver of the MCAT requirement doesn't mean anything if the other 20 schools you are applying to still require the score, in which case you will still take the test, and the score will still be reported to Stanford. The thing about sending scores is that you don't have a choice. AAMC administers the test, and AAMC runs AMCAS, so all scores are automatically sent to all schools you have applied to.

Much ado about nothing!!!

 

[GreenDuck12]

It would be interesting to see how many students, if any, are offered seats without an MCAT score. This late in the game, I think that this is a largely symbolic gesture to create the appearance of progressive admissions policies in the face of a pandemic. In practice, this likely will have a very small impact, if any impact at all.

 

[LizzyM]

I actually think this is totally meaningless unless and until a significant number of peer institutions join them. What are the odds that any applicant is going to only apply to Stanford, without a score, and be accepted? Stanford's waiver of the MCAT requirement doesn't mean anything if the other 20 schools you are applying to still require the score, in which case you will still take the test, and the score will still be reported to Stanford. The thing about sending scores is that you don't have a choice. AAMC administers the test, and AAMC runs AMCAS, so all scores are automatically sent to all schools you have applied to.

Much ado about nothing!!!

Not that I can imagine Stanford having a problem with yield but it could be a way to attract some top candidates who have no other choice.

 

[Goro]

How are they going to differentiate people who would normally have a 4.0/520 profile from 4.0/502???

 

[gyngyn]

I actually think this is totally meaningless unless and until a significant number of peer institutions join them. What are the odds that any applicant is going to only apply to Stanford, without a score, and be accepted? Stanford's waiver of the MCAT requirement doesn't mean anything if the other 20 schools you are applying to still require the score, in which case you will still take the test, and the score will still be reported to Stanford. The thing about sending scores is that you don't have a choice. AAMC administers the test, and AAMC runs AMCAS, so all scores are automatically sent to all schools you have applied to.

Much ado about nothing!!!

All of the CA schools (except Northstate and those that came after) have signed on to the same agreement.

 

[LizzyM]

How are they going to differentiate people who would normally have a 4.0/520 profile from 4.0/502???

They'll be going after non-trads with post-bac 4.0 after 3-5 years in a high flying career that provides a track record of success beyond grades and scores. Those students have maturity and were ready for the April/May MCAT and June application until Covid showed up.

 

[Goro]

They'll be going after non-trads with post-bac 4.0 after 3-5 years in a high flying career that provides a track record of success beyond grades and scores. Those students have maturity and were ready for the April/May MCAT and June application until Covid showed up.

Hmmm...sounds like some of the students in my SMP!

 

[KnightDoc]

All of the CA schools (except Northstate and those that came after) have signed on to the same agreement.

Well then, given how easy it is to get into at least one CA school, I guess this is a good thing for people who have not yet taken the test who have no need to apply outside CA.

Edit: I just looked up the joint statement -- I don't see a change from what they put out in May. What Stanford is doing is going further, since they are making the test optional for the entire cycle. The joint statement merely said secondary decisions would be made without the test, but the test would be required before admissions decisions were made.

 

[KnightDoc]

They'll be going after non-trads with post-bac 4.0 after 3-5 years in a high flying career that provides a track record of success beyond grades and scores. Those students have maturity and were ready for the April/May MCAT and June application until Covid showed up.

But again, this only works if you don't need the MCAT for another school. SAT optional works because the applicant controls whether or not the school sees the score. MCAT optional is meaningless unless every school you apply to is optional AND you don't take the test, since you can't stop the school from seeing the score once you take the test. While the non trads you describe sound like ideal Stanford candidates, what percent of them are actually admitted each year, and how many of them only apply to CA schools?

 

[KnightDoc]

How are they going to differentiate people who would normally have a 4.0/520 profile from 4.0/502???

By seeing whether or not the application actually comes in without a test score?

I think it's highly unlikely that the 520 person would preclude the opportunity to receive any other As just to avoid sitting for the exam, while the 502 person would have nothing to lose by taking the shot!

 

[deleted804295]

Hmmm...sounds like some of the students in my SMP!

You should recommend them to apply

 

[deleted804295]

They'll be going after non-trads with post-bac 4.0 after 3-5 years in a high flying career that provides a track record of success beyond grades and scores. Those students have maturity and were ready for the April/May MCAT and June application until Covid showed up.

These students tend to already score very high on their MCATs from my own experience of meeting them.

 

[gyngyn]

Well then, given how easy it is to get into at least one CA school, I guess this is a good thing for people who have not yet taken the test who have no need to apply outside CA.

The only effect on the application cycle is that more folks will apply (whether they fit the mission or not).
Sort of like the way people think that holistic means that scores don't matter.

 

[KnightDoc]

The only effect on the application cycle is that more folks will apply (whether they fit the mission or not).
Sort of like the way people think that holistic means that scores don't matter.

But I think it's just the one school (I didn't see any reference to it at any other CA school). If that's the case, would it really draw more people to just apply to the one school, and how will they even know it if they aren't in the cycle anyway?

 

[gyngyn]

But I think it's just the one school (I didn't see any reference to it at any other CA school). If that's the case, would it really draw more people to just apply to the one school, and how will they even know it if they aren't in the cycle anyway?

The concept was discussed by all CA schools (except as above).
The exact execution at each school is going to be a moot point as MCAT testing centers have largely re-opened.
Only a fool would apply without an MCAT score to a single school.
Stanford wouldn't (knowingly) admit fools.

 

[LizzyM]

By seeing whether or not the application actually comes in without a test score?

I think it's highly unlikely that the 520 person would preclude the opportunity to receive any other As just to avoid sitting for the exam, while the 502 person would have nothing to lose by taking the shot!

It is not to avoid sitting for the exam but where it was not possible to sit for it.

 

[KnightDoc]

It is not to avoid sitting for the exam but where it was not possible to sit for it.

Yes, yes, I understand. My point is that, with no other school doing this, it is meaningless. It IS possible to sit, because tests resumed on 5/29, and all test centers were open as of 6/19. It is definitely inconvenient for some, but it is not impossible for anyone to take a test by 9/28.

The Stanford offer is generous on its face, but meaningless in practice unless you are willing to just apply to the one school this cycle. I was joking that someone who knows they are headed for a bad score might take a shot by taking Stanford up on its offer, and, to answer @Goro's question, Stanford would know who they are because they would be the only applicants applying without a score.

It will not be impossible for anyone heading for a 520+/- score to take the test in time to apply this cycle, even though their score might not be received until October. (I guess this could change if things close up again before the end of September, but even still, no other school has waived the requirement, so buying a lottery ticket for one T3 school hardly constitutes an application cycle.)

Nobody serious about applying this cycle will choose not to sit, even in September, and just take their one shot with Stanford. If for some reason it does become impossible to sit for the exam, would it really be worth the effort for most to just apply to the one school versus waiting until next year?

 

[Neuro244]

Although this may benefit some students who have not yet received their score or have ever taken it, for students who have already received their scores In the past and did poorly, will not have any advantage.

 

[KnightDoc]

Although this may benefit some students who have not yet received their score or have ever taken it, for students who have already received their scores In the past and did poorly, will not have any advantage.

Actually, this will not benefit anyone who isn't limiting their applications to schools that will not require the MCAT before making decisions, which as of today, is exactly one school!!!

 

[penguinsfan71]

Actually, this will not benefit anyone who isn't limiting their applications to schools that will not require the MCAT before making decisions, which as of today, is exactly one school!!!

Didn't the UC's also go MCAT optional?

 

[gyngyn]

Didn't the UC's also go MCAT optional?

The CA schools (except Northstate and those that followed) have all promised to consider applicants whose scores are not available at the point that the application is initially considered. The goal is that these applicants not be disadvantaged because of MCAT exam site closures. Now that there is generally available testing, the point is moot.

 

[KnightDoc]

Didn't the UC's also go MCAT optional?

No - what they said is that you shouldn't wait for an MCAT score before submitting an application, due to the COVID delay, and that they would send secondaries and maybe even issue IIs without a score, but they were clear that no admission decisions would be made without a score. That has not yet changed, except, of course, at Stanford.

 

[Alpha-ketogluterate]

Hey everyone,

I saw on Reddit that Stanford had announced that they are going MCAT optional for this cycle in that any already taken scores will be reported but one can still apply/interview/matriculate without a score if they have not already taken it.

I was wondering what all your opinions on this were, as well as the opinion of ADCOMS, relating to if a current score is therefore diminished in value or if this is essentially meaningless as the vast majority will have high scores and those that are accepted without have stellar applications that would have likely scored well anyways.

Thanks!

Kind of random, but my own MCAT experience was absolutely essential for my growth. I learned so much in the effort of studying for the exam. Since then, I've been teaching the exam as a hobby of sorts to students in my school, and overwhelmingly I hear that the process of studying for the exam taught them more than their undergrad sciences. The MCAT forces you to make connections between topics that you may not have made otherwise. I hope the MCAT does not turn into the next SAT with all the weird controversy around it. I am not from a high SES family, I didn't take any classes for the exam, and most of the students I worked with who scored 520+ just studied independently as well (as in not having taken expensive prep courses - so while I believe that having more resources helps, I do not buy the argument that high family income and or resources directly results into high scores or even that they are of significant help; they are of SOME help, not significant help. The bulk of the effort is still on the individual student).

Anyways, and coming back on topic. I had a lot of students this cycle who had their original exams canceled, had COVID in the family, experienced layoffs, etc. But, they ALL managed to squeeze in the MCAT and take it (with all the extra dates offered this summer), most of them doing well. I think that Stanford's intentions here are good, but I think they send the wrong message. As others have said though, it probably will have little to no impact.

 

[squids82]

Kind of random, but my own MCAT experience was absolutely essential for my growth. I learned so much in the effort of studying for the exam. Since then, I've been teaching the exam as a hobby of sorts to students in my school, and overwhelmingly I hear that the process of studying for the exam taught them more than their undergrad sciences. The MCAT forces you to make connections between topics that you may not have made otherwise. I hope the MCAT does not turn into the next SAT with all the weird controversy around it. I am not from a high SES family, I didn't take any classes for the exam, and most of the students I worked with who scored 520+ just studied independently as well (as in not having taken expensive prep courses - so while I believe that having more resources helps, I do not buy the argument that high family income and or resources directly results into high scores or even that they are of significant help; they are of SOME help, not significant help. The bulk of the effort is still on the individual student).

Anyways, and coming back on topic. I had a lot of students this cycle who had their original exams canceled, had COVID in the family, experienced layoffs, etc. But, they ALL managed to squeeze in the MCAT and take it (with all the extra dates offered this summer), most of them doing well. I think that Stanford's intentions here are good, but I think they send the wrong message. As others have said though, it probably will have little to no impact.

Thanks for your perspective! I had already taken it last August and done relatively well so it was borne more out of concern that my score may not hold weight at schools anymore

 

[Alpha-ketogluterate]

Thanks for your perspective! I had already taken it last August and done relatively well so it was borne more out of concern that my score may not hold weight at schools anymore

O absolutely, im sorry I should have clarified. I didn't mean to write that as advice for you that you should "like" the MCAT. it was just a general thought that came to my mind when I found out about the Stanford thing. Congrats on doing well!!

 

[emergencydancing]

What are our thoughts on the recent Stanford changes where you don't have to send your MCAT if it's during the pandemic (I don't know how they'll enforce this since it's automatically sent?) FAQ related to COVID-19

Also UCSF seems to have jumped on board How to Apply to Medical School | UCSF Medical Education

It seems like both will not be using the MCAT for their interview decisions at all. EDIT: UCSF not using, Stanford not using for initial review for interviews (so vague!).

 

[itsallsmiles]

What are our thoughts on the recent Stanford changes where you don't have to send your MCAT if it's during the pandemic (I don't know how they'll enforce this since it's automatically sent?) FAQ related to COVID-19

Also UCSF seems to have jumped on board How to Apply to Medical School | UCSF Medical Education

It seems like both will not be using the MCAT for their interview decisions at all. EDIT: UCSF not using, Stanford not using for initial review for interviews (so vague!).

Thats crazy. Do you know if any other schools are doing this? Or how can we get notified of which school is doing this asap?

 

[KnightDoc]

What are our thoughts on the recent Stanford changes where you don't have to send your MCAT if it's during the pandemic (I don't know how they'll enforce this since it's automatically sent?) FAQ related to COVID-19

Also UCSF seems to have jumped on board How to Apply to Medical School | UCSF Medical Education

It seems like both will not be using the MCAT for their interview decisions at all. EDIT: UCSF not using, Stanford not using for initial review for interviews (so vague!).

You are not fully understanding -- Stanford has made the MCAT totally optional for this cycle, but if you already have a score (or will receive one before the end of the cycle) they will receive it, so this has no practical effect unless you haven't already and don't plan to take the test, and, as of now, plan on only applying to Stanford. They can and will use it if they receive it, and they will receive it automatically if it exists.

Stanford has said "the MCAT will not be part of the screening and initial review process for interview decisions, but they also said "applications may be submitted without an MCAT score unless reported by AAMC," and ALL scores are automatically reported by AAMC, so the only reasonable inference to draw is that they will send IIs without looking at MCATs, but will use them to make admission decisions if they are available, which they will be for anyone who is applying anywhere else this cycle, as well as for anyone who has ever taken the MCAT. Unlike the College Board, AAMC and AMCAS offers no functionality to allow candidates to choose which scores go to which schools. ALL scores go to ALL schools to which you apply, with no ability to opt out.

All of the other CA schools have previously announced that they will send secondaries and maybe make interview decisions without a score, but will not make admission decisions without one. Again they WILL use the score if they have it, but won't wait for it if it is delayed. So all this really is is an accommodation to allow you to not have to wait to submit an application if your test was delayed due to the MCAT cancellations in the spring.

 

[KnightDoc]

Thats crazy. Do you know if any other schools are doing this? Or how can we get notified of which school is doing this asap?

You don't get notified. You would have to go on each school's website to find it, and it's not relevant unless you haven't already taken the test and don't plan to, because each AMCAS schools automatically receives every MCAT score directly from AAMC.

 

[itsallsmiles]

You are not fully understanding -- Stanford has made the MCAT totally optional for this cycle, but if you already have a score (or will receive one before the end of the cycle) they will receive it, so this has no practical effect unless you haven't already and don't plan to take the test, and, as of now, plan on only applying to Stanford. They can and will use it if they receive it, and they will receive it automatically if it exists.

Stanford has said "the MCAT will not be part of the screening and initial review process for interview decisions, but they also said "applications may be submitted without an MCAT score unless reported by AAMC," and ALL scores are automatically reported by AAMC, so the only reasonable inference to draw is that they will send IIs without looking at MCATs, but will use them to admission decisions if they are available, which they will be for anyone who is applying anywhere else this cycle, as well as for anyone who has ever taken the MCAT.

All of the other CA schools have previously announced that they will send secondaries and maybe make interview decisions without a score, but will not make admission decisions without one. Again they WILL use the score if they have it, but won't wait for it if it is delayed. So all this really is is an accommodation to allow you to not have to wait to submit an application if your test was delayed due to the MCAT cancellations in the spring.

So Stanford is fully optional, but when UCSF says,
"For the 2021 Admissions Cycle, the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine will accept applications without an MCAT score due to the COVID-19 pandemic. All candidates will be screened and interview decisions will be offered without utilization of an MCAT score." they mean that they will make interview decisions etc. without MCAT, but they expect it later in the cycle?

 

[KnightDoc]

So Stanford is fully optional, but when UCSF says,
"For the 2021 Admissions Cycle, the University of California San Francisco School of Medicine will accept applications without an MCAT score due to the COVID-19 pandemic. All candidates will be screened and interview decisions will be offered without utilization of an MCAT score." they mean that they will make interview decisions etc. without MCAT, but they expect it later in the cycle?

Yes. Carefully read the rest of their statement -- "The Medical College Admission Test (MCAT), required of all applicants, is administered multiple times per year. We encourage applicants to take the MCAT in the spring rather than the summer. This way, you can take the test again if you feel that your initial test scores do not reflect your ability. For applicants who decide to take the MCAT more than once, the committee looks at the most recent scores. The MCAT must be taken within three years of the date you plan to enter medical school and, at the latest, by September of the preceding year. We will accept scores from 2018, 2019, and 2020 for applications submitted by October 15, 2020."

There is also this joint statement from the CA medical schools:

MCAT Tests

We will accept applications from individuals who were unable to take the MCAT due to COVID-related test cancellations. For these candidates, we will base secondary application decisions on the information that is available to us at the time of the application. Assuming that MCAT testing resumes prior to October, we will require applicants to have taken the MCAT before we make admissions decisions for the Class of 2025. Accordingly, applicants should not delay applying simply because an MCAT score is not yet available.

Raquel Arias, MD
Associate Dean of Admissions
Keck School of Medicine at USC

John Balmes, MD
Associate Dean of Admissions
Keck School of Medicine at USC

Clarence Braddock III, MD, MPH
Vice Dean for Education
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

Daphne Calmes, MD
Associate Dean for Medical Education
Charles R. Drew University of Medicine

Iris C. Gibbs, MD
Associate Dean of MD
Stanford University School of Medicine

Kama Guluma, MD
Associate Dean
and Student Affairs
UC San Diego School of Medicine

Mark Henderson, MD
Associate Dean for Admissions
University of California Davis

Megan Osborn, MD, MHPE
Associate Dean for Students
University of California Irvine

Sarah Roddy, MD
Associate Dean for Admissions
Loma Linda University School of Medicine

Emma M. Simmons, MD, MPH
Senior Associate Dean, Student Affairs
University of California Riverside

Lindia Willies-Jacobo, MD
Associate Dean for Admissions
Kaiser Permanente Bernard J. Tyson
School of Medicine

David Wofsy, MD
Associate Dean for Admissions
University of California San Francisco

 

[emergencydancing]

You are not fully understanding -- Stanford has made the MCAT totally optional for this cycle, but if you already have a score (or will receive one before the end of the cycle) they will receive it, so this has no practical effect unless you haven't already and don't plan to take the test, and, as of now, plan on only applying to Stanford. They can and will use it if they receive it, and they will receive it automatically if it exists.

Stanford has said "the MCAT will not be part of the screening and initial review process for interview decisions, but they also said "applications may be submitted without an MCAT score unless reported by AAMC," and ALL scores are automatically reported by AAMC, so the only reasonable inference to draw is that they will send IIs without looking at MCATs, but will use them to make admission decisions if they are available, which they will be for anyone who is applying anywhere else this cycle, as well as for anyone who has ever taken the MCAT. Unlike the College Board, AAMC and AMCAS offers no functionality to allow candidates to choose which scores go to which schools. ALL scores go to ALL schools to which you apply, with no ability to opt out.

All of the other CA schools have previously announced that they will send secondaries and maybe make interview decisions without a score, but will not make admission decisions without one. Again they WILL use the score if they have it, but won't wait for it if it is delayed. So all this really is is an accommodation to allow you to not have to wait to submit an application if your test was delayed due to the MCAT cancellations in the spring.

My mistake, I misread "With regard to the 2021 application cycle, applications may be submitted without an MCAT score taken during the COVID-19 pandemic, March 14 - September 30, 2020." as you can choose whether to send it.

Regardless, people are understating the importance of getting an II without an MCAT score. I don't know if they will send a lot out, but for those that do get them, their chances increase substantially assuming they keep the number of II constant. Once a school has invested energy in interviewing you, your chances go way up, in normal years.

I wonder if this cycle they are doing this to increase diversity of URMs?

 

[emergencydancing]

Yes. Carefully read the rest of their statement -- "The Medical College Admission Test (MCAT), required of all applicants, is administered multiple times per year. We encourage applicants to take the MCAT in the spring rather than the summer. This way, you can take the test again if you feel that your initial test scores do not reflect your ability. For applicants who decide to take the MCAT more than once, the committee looks at the most recent scores. The MCAT must be taken within three years of the date you plan to enter medical school and, at the latest, by September of the preceding year. We will accept scores from 2018, 2019, and 2020 for applications submitted by October 15, 2020."

This is their standard MCAT explanation for every year. COVID related requirement announcements trump ordinary guidelines/requirements, and new school specific news trumps old joint statements.

 

[KnightDoc]

My mistake, I misread "With regard to the 2021 application cycle, applications may be submitted without an MCAT score taken during the COVID-19 pandemic, March 14 - September 30, 2020." as you can choose whether to send it.

Regardless, people are understating the importance of getting an II without an MCAT score. I don't know if they will send a lot out, but for those that do get them, their chances increase substantially assuming they keep the number of II constant. Once a school has invested energy in interviewing you, your chances go way up, in normal years.

I wonder if this cycle they are doing this to increase diversity of URMs?

I honestly think you are reading way too much into it with respect to URMs. They already review URMs separately from the rest of the pool with a view toward increasing the diversity of the class. This is totally, exclusively, just to not prejudice people who currently do not have a score through no fault of their own because their tests were cancelled from March-May.

You are 1,000% correct about the importance of receiving an II, because something like 80%+ of applicants at each school do not receive them. The fact remains, though, that most people with great GPAs have great MCATs. The unanswerable question is what would happen with someone with a great application who receives an II, does well on the interview, and then ends up having a crappy MCAT score?

That remains to be seen, but my guess would be that those cases will be far and few between. Since plenty of people are rejected post interview for a variety of reasons, I'd bet that a school will write off its investment and ultimately reject someone who ends up with a sub par MCAT, unless that person performed so spectacularly on the interview that the school is willing to ignore the MCAT, as opposed to just ignoring it on the front end in order to salvage its sunk cost in the interview. JMHO.

 

[KnightDoc]

This is their standard MCAT explanation for every year. COVID related requirement announcements trump ordinary guidelines/requirements, and new school specific news trumps old joint statements.

Sure, but it's on their website right now, along with the COVID statement. If they weren't still requiring the MCAT, that would be the place to say so. The MCAT statement is NOT a standard explanation for every year. It specifically references applications submitted by October 15, 2020; not October 15th of any generic year. I am very sure that if they change their MCAT requirement that they will be sharp enough to edit the reference on their website to conform to the change, just like they posted the COVID statement to track what is contained in the joint statement.

They are very careful in saying that "All candidates will be screened and interview decisions will be offered without utilization of an MCAT score." To date, at no time and in no place has UCSF said that it will make ADMISSION decisions without utilization of an MCAT score. Their website, the joint statement and their COVID statement couldn't be more clear. MCATs are not required to receive a secondary or II, but they are required to receive an offer of admission, since MCAT testing has indeed resumed prior to October 2020. Of course, this could change if testing is shut down again as COVID cases spike throughout the country, but this is the state of play today, as applications have begun to be transmitted to schools and MCAT testing resumed on 5/29.

 

[emergencydancing]

This was also a question for the adcoms in the group, one of which is a CA med school faculty member, I believe?

 

[WhiteCoat2016]

Not that I can imagine Stanford having a problem with yield but it could be a way to attract some top candidates who have no other choice.

Sounds like me - sadly the MCAT didn't work out for me and now can only apply to Stanford and Penn this year (Penn needs MCAT latest by Feb 2021). Non-trad undergrad 3.9 GPA from top 5 liberal arts with MPhil and PhD from Cambridge + major US-UK scholarship and experience in VC/entrepreneurship. Feels kind of lonely applying to so few schools... Maybe it will work out.

 

[LizzyM]

Sounds like me - sadly the MCAT didn't work out for me and now can only apply to Stanford and Penn this year (Penn needs MCAT latest by Feb 2021). Non-trad undergrad 3.9 GPA from top 5 liberal arts with MPhil and PhD from Cambridge + major US-UK scholarship and experience in VC/entrepreneurship. Feels kind of lonely applying to so few schools... Maybe it will work out.

 

[emergencydancing]

Sounds like me - sadly the MCAT didn't work out for me and now can only apply to Stanford and Penn this year (Penn needs MCAT latest by Feb 2021). Non-trad undergrad 3.9 GPA from top 5 liberal arts with MPhil and PhD from Cambridge + major US-UK scholarship and experience in VC/entrepreneurship. Feels kind of lonely applying to so few schools... Maybe it will work out.

Out of curiosity, what was your reason for not having an MCAT?

 

[KnightDoc]

Out of curiosity, what was your reason for not having an MCAT?

If you're answering questions, I was more interested in why you are putting yourself through this for two very low probability shots rather than just waiting another year and allowing yourself to be in a position to answer "no" to any school that asks if you have ever previously applied to a MD program? No matter how great your background is, you have placed yourself in a very high risk / high reward position if your only two possibilities are Stanford and Penn.