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Chemistjoey

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A few days ago a user started a thread discussing discrimination he/she suffered while on an interview at the Albert Einstein School of medicine. I have noticed that the thread has been deleted and no trace of this post exists. Was there a valid reason for the thread being removed or is this SDN's attempt at censorship?
 
Was going to start a thread asking the same thing. The post stimulated discussion about racial discrimination in the medical field. It was very unlikely that it was a troll post, as the OP showed a screenshot of an email from Einstein that only interviewees received.
 
One of the more intriguing threads I've seen around here recently for sure. Interesting that it got wiped off the face of the earth.
 
No idea or opinion on whether or not the OP from that thread was telling the truth, but for historical purposes, Google has a cached page of the thread.

EDIT: Upon reconsideration, I took down the link, but it's still not hard to find online.
 
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Chemistjoey said:
A few days ago a user started a thread discussing discrimination he/she suffered while on an interview at the Albert Einstein School of medicine. I have noticed that the thread has been deleted and no trace of this post exists. Was there a valid reason for the thread being removed or is this SDN's attempt at censorship?
Click to expand...

Glad its gone. Let's keep it that way and not try to start it again
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Glad its gone. Let's keep it that way and not try to start it again
Click to expand...

I saw the cache...and I'm unhappy that this thread it gone. Racial discrimination, and rampant Islamophobia (Which is...ta-dah religious discrimination) should be frowned upon by the entire Medical Community.

Einstein needs to figure this out, it's makes their school look horrible.
 
sb247 said:
Sdn owns the page...they set the rules
Click to expand...

This was a blatant attempt at sweeping a valid concern about racial discrimination under the rug. It really saddens me that we choose to ignore racism instead of fighting against it, especially in 2015. This is a major step in the wrong direction, and further validates points made in the deleted thread implying the medical community's lack of desire to address these issues.
 
GavinThePremed said:
I saw the cache...and I'm unhappy that this thread it gone. Racial discrimination, and rampant Islamophobia (Which is...ta-dah religious discrimination) should be frowned upon by the entire Medical Community.

Einstein needs to figure this out, it's makes their school look horrible.
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You weren't there you don't know what did or didn't happen. Don't judge a school based on one persons side of the story
 
I just read the cache... And while I'm not going to comment on the validity of the contents, I wonder what the OP expected to gain from posting it. This is something that should have been taken up with admissions right away.

On a thread like this where things really can't be checked for veracity, all that happens is inflammatory posts and hand wringing. No one was going to argue that that happened was right had it happened, but these channels aren't right for any sort of conclusion to what may have happened.
 
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Chemistjoey said:
This was a blatant attempt at sweeping a valid concern about racial discrimination under the rug. It really saddens me that we choose to ignore racism instead of fighting against it, especially in 2015. This is a major step in the wrong direction, and further validates points made in the deleted thread implying the medical community's lack of desire to address these issues.
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Or this was an attempt of defamation that SDN didn't want published on their website
 
I don't imagine it was deleted because SDN judged it to be a "troll" thread or in an attempt to either downplay the significance of the event (ignoring blatant racism/Islamophobia) or to avoid a heated internet clash.

1) SDN moderation does a good job of locking down troll threads as soon as the thread, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is revealed to be a troll or nonsense thread.
2) There have been SO many heated clashes on SDN over the years. Some have even happened simultaneously over similar - frequently racial, sexual or otherwise sensitive - topics across different "board" on the forum.

My hypothesis? If the OP's story was true those are some very serious allegations against Einstein and while I am sure that the school would never stand behind such statements, I do not think it is impossible that one of their faculty could harbor such views as those views are not unheard of, generally speaking, though I would certainly hope that none of their esteemed faculty would express themselves in such a crass, ignorant, prejudiced way.

In light of that, I would have done the same. Taken the post down, contacted the OP and told him that he should bring this up with the Einstein administration as soon as possible with whatever evidence he can and further explain that due to the gravity and scope of such allegations a public forum would not be the best place to discuss such matters. If the thread had been about Islamophobia in general, as I'm certain this one will soon become, I doubt the SDN mods would have done anything other than keep an eye on it for civil behavior; however, an individual and in fact a whole institution was accused of what anyone would recognize as gross misconduct and what most academic institutions would be openly disgusted about.

EDIT: Others beat me to it and in less words.
 
ridethecliche said:
I just read the cache... And while I'm not going to comment on the validity of the contents, I wonder what the OP expected to gain from posting it. This is something that skulls have been taken up with admissions right away.

On a thread like this where things really can't be checked for veracity, all that happens is inflammatory posts and hand wringing. No one was going to argue that that happened was right had it vanished, but these channels aren't right for any sort of conclusion to what may have happened.
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You'd be surprised. Later on in the thread, several people argued that the interviewer's questions were sensible to ask, and that they should just have been worded/framed differently.

If I misunderstood what you were saying there, then nvm.
 
sb247 said:
Sdn owns the page...they set the rules
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Agreed. I have not always been liked the decisions that mods make, but I recognize that they are faced with an enormous task of trying to prune this chaos into a garden of useful knowledge. Forum moderation is one of the most necessary and yet thankless jobs on the net, and it is usually carried out by volunteers. Gotta respect them, and accept that they probably have reasons for their decisions, some of which may not be obvious without privileged information.
 
Lucca said:
I don't imagine it was deleted because SDN judged it to be a "troll" thread or in an attempt to either downplay the significance of the event (ignoring blatant racism/Islamophobia) or to avoid a heated internet clash.

1) SDN moderation does a good job of locking down troll threads as soon as the thread, beyond a shadow of a doubt, is revealed to be a troll or nonsense thread.
2) There have been SO many heated clashes on SDN over the years. Some have even happened simultaneously over similar - frequently racial, sexual or otherwise sensitive - topics across different "board" on the forum.

My hypothesis? If the OP's story was true those are some very serious allegations against Einstein and while I am sure that the school would never stand behind such statements, I do not think it is impossible that one of their faculty could harbor such views as those views are not unheard of, generally speaking, though I would certainly hope that none of their esteemed faculty would express themselves in such a crass, ignorant, prejudiced way.

In light of that, I would have done the same. Taken the post down, contacted the OP and told him that he should bring this up with the Einstein administration as soon as possible with whatever evidence he can and further explain that due to the gravity and scope of such allegations a public forum would not be the best place to discuss such matters. If the thread had been about Islamophobia in general, as I'm certain this one will soon become, I doubt the SDN mods would have done anything other than keep an eye on it for civil behavior; however, an individual and in fact a whole institution was accused of what anyone would recognize as gross misconduct and what most academic institutions would be openly disgusted about.

EDIT: Others beat me to it and in less words.
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure if it was the right thing. Recognizing the seriousness of it, sure. But just deleting the thread is a poor gesture that suggests the worst.

On a side note to this sad thread, to whom could you attribute "Three weeks in lab will save you one hour in the library."
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
You weren't there you don't know what did or didn't happen. Don't judge a school based on one persons side of the story
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Yup, lets not publish horrible instances of racism on the interview trail, lest we be called trolls on the internet.

The guy posted evidence of having an interview...seemed genuine. If you're from Einstein, sorry if you feel attacked, but even if this was my own UG, which I love, I'd be like..yup need an investigation because this is disgusting.
 
blueharbor said:
You'd be surprised. Later on in the thread, several people argued that the interviewer's questions were sensible to ask, and that they should just have been worded/framed differently.

If I misunderstood what you were saying there, then nvm.
Click to expand...

Actually the argument was about context as that was blatantly missing. If you took the post at face value then there is no argument. You would be a fool to do that though.
 
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philosonista said:
I'm really not sure if it was the right thing. Recognizing the seriousness of it, sure. But just deleting the thread is a poor gesture that suggests the worst.

On a side note to this sad thread, to whom could you attribute "Three weeks in lab will save you one hour in the library."
Click to expand...

It would be nice if there was a little note from the mods that explained it, but the only people that would really notice are regular users like us. I don't think they owe us an explanation or anything like that, personally. It was probably the best decision for the forum.

My PI says it pretty regularly to remind the grad students/the group to actually look things like spectra and constants up before we try to calculate them/run an experiment and waste everyone's time and money lol.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Actually the argument was about context as that was blatently missing. If you took the post at face value then there is no argument. You would be a fool to do that though.
Click to expand...
Cool so you're going to Einstein ? - The Fool...haha hope you know how foolish you sound bud, relax and see this for what it is.

Also blatantly*
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
You weren't there you don't know what did or didn't happen. Don't judge a school based on one persons side of the story
Click to expand...

Just so. And even if it happened exactly as was reported, it still doesn't speak to the biases of the entire school. The interviewer may have had a bias, but that doesn't remotely mean that the school knows that and endorses that opinion. If the original OP didn't seek redress from the school directly, there is no way for them to even know how the larger organization would behave toward them.

Just because someone makes it through to become a physician and an adcom, that alone is not a guarantee that they are a person of unimpeachable virtues, without fault.

Curious how long it will be before this thread is closed. Threads about closed threads seem unlikely to thrive.
 
Promethean said:
Just so. And even if it happened exactly as was reported, it still doesn't speak to the biases of the entire school. The interviewer may have had a bias, but that doesn't remotely mean that the school knows that and endorses that opinion. If the original OP didn't seek redress from the school directly, there is no way for them to even know how the larger organization would behave toward them.

Just because someone makes it through to become a physician and an adcom, that alone is not a guarantee that they are a person of unimpeachable virtues, without fault.

Curious how long it will be before this thread is closed. Threads about closed threads seem unlikely to thrive.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. If Einstein knew someone like that was making admissions decisions for them, I'm pretty certain that wouldn't sit well with them. Or at least, I'd hope so.
 
GavinThePremed said:
Yup, lets not publish horrible instances of racism on the interview trail, lest we be called trolls on the internet.

The guy posted evidence of having an interview...seemed genuine. If you're from Einstein, sorry if you feel attacked, but even if this was my own UG, which I love, I'd be like..yup need an investigation because this is disgusting.
Click to expand...

Firstly:
Einstein freaking offers a second interview opportunity if you want. If OP really felt the way he did Einstein is actually willing to give a redo.

Secondly:
An invitation to interview is not evidence that Einstein is racist.

Thirdly:

I'm not arguing against contacting the school. I'm arguing against posting on an online forum where you have zero evidence and are posting in a manner that is one sided. We can't possibly make any judgment based on one side of the story.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Actually the argument was about context as that was blatently missing. If you took the post at face value then there is no argument. You would be a fool to do that though.
Click to expand...
The argument that I engaged in with other users was not about context. It was exactly what I said it was about. Your argument may have been about context, but other users DID feel that different framing/wording would have justified the interviewer's questions.

Edit: Oh, and in what contexts would those questions have been justified? I'm curious.
 
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GavinThePremed said:
, but even if this was my own UG, which I love, I'd be like..yup need an investigation because this is disgusting.
Click to expand...

If every disgusting thing alleged on the internet lead to a full investigation, nothing else would ever get done.

Original OP has access to proper recourse... which is to approach the school directly. If OP did that, I'm sure the matter would be looked into. Turning up anonymously to publicize an unsubstantiatable claim is just libelous. SDN was right to shut the thread because until people actually involved address the situation through correct channels, none of us have any basis to form a legit opinion.
 
blueharbor said:
The argument that I engaged in with other users was not about context. It was exactly what I said it was about. Your argument may have been about context, but other users DID feel that different framing/wording would have justified the interviewer's questions.
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The OP had a lot to do with the mannerisms of the interviewer. I read the whole thread and saw what everyone was posting. The whole bit about the whispering and non verbal communication the OP portrayed the interview as exhibiting was clearly a point of discussion. If the interviewer asked what are your opinions on the state of isreal that wasn't objectionable. But the OP put out a context which made it seem like it was asked in a way that made it seem the OP hated isreal. That may not have even been close to reality rather the OP might have just perceived it in that way.
 
Promethean said:
If every disgusting thing alleged on the internet lead to a full investigation, nothing else would ever get done.

Original OP has access to proper recourse... which is to approach the school directly. If OP did that, I'm sure the matter would be looked into. Turning up anonymously to publicize an unsubstantiatable claim is just libelous. SDN was right to shut the thread because until people actually involved address the situation through correct channels, none of us have any basis to form a legit opinion.
Click to expand...

Perfectly said.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
The OP had a lot to do with the mannerisms of the interviewer. I read the whole thread and saw what everyone was posting. The whole bit about the whispering and non verbal communication the OP portrayed the interview as exhibiting was clearly a point of discussion. If the interviewer asked what are your opinions on the state of isreal that wasn't objectionable. But the OP put out a context which made it seem like it was asked in a way that made it seem the OP hated isreal. That may not have even been close to reality rather the OP might have just perceived it in that way.
Click to expand...

What does the state of Israel have to do with anything? Einstein was created as a medical school because Jewish students faced discrimination from entering the profession. That's why Einstein lent his name.

Israel doesn't factor into the discussion at all. Many practicing jews I know are against Israel's policies. Does that mean that they're anti-Semitic? Come off it.

Promethean said:
If every disgusting thing alleged on the internet lead to a full investigation, nothing else would ever get done.

Original OP has access to proper recourse... which is to approach the school directly. If OP did that, I'm sure the matter would be looked into. Turning up anonymously to publicize an unsubstantiatable claim is just libelous. SDN was right to shut the thread because until people actually involved address the situation through correct channels, none of us have any basis to form a legit opinion.
Click to expand...

Ugh. Some schools don't respond. I talked to a school and sent a letter to a school over an interview I perceived as being way too pointed and insulting. The school hasn't written back to me.
 
I can understand why SDN doesn't want it on its page. However, a discussion of the matter should be allowed to occur on a different platform or webpage in a constructive manner.
 
ridethecliche said:
What does the state of Israel have to do with anything? Einstein was created as a medical school because Jewish students faced discrimination from entering the profession. That's why Einstein lent his name.

Israel doesn't factor into the discussion at all. Many practicing jews I know are against Israel's policies. Does that mean that they're anti-Semitic? Come off it.



Ugh. Some schools don't respond. I talked to a school and sent a letter to a school over an interview I perceived as being way too pointed and insulting. The school hasn't written back to me.
Click to expand...

Einstein at yeshiva is a Jewish school and can ask about isreal if they want to. Really a medical school interview doesn't have to be solely about medicine. If they want to ask about your opinion on they keystone pipeline that doesn't make them racist.

This has nothing to do with anti semitism BTW. Einstein has the right to ask about isreal if they want to. I'm sure adcoms here would agree with that statement.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Einstein at yeshiva is a Jewish school and can ask about isreal if they want to. Really a medical school interview doesn't have to be solely about medicine. If they want to ask about your opinion on they keystone pipeline that doesn't make them racist.

This has nothing to do with anti semitism BTW. Einstein has the right to ask about isreal if they want to. I'm sure adcoms here would agree with that statement.
Click to expand...
Ok, well first you questioned whether or not this person was telling the truth, but are okay with the conjecture so as long as it refers to Einstein's innocence...cool.

It's inappropriate to ask as to the ethnicity of your recommenders, inappropriate to focus on the religious/ethnic group the student identifies, in a blatantly negative way, and it's inappropriate to conduct an interview in such an Islamaphobic way.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Einstein at yeshiva is a Jewish school and can ask about isreal if they want to. Really a medical school interview doesn't have to be solely about medicine. If they want to ask about your opinion on they keystone pipeline that doesn't make them racist.

This has nothing to do with anti semitism BTW. Einstein has the right to ask about isreal if they want to. I'm sure adcoms here would agree with that statement.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you think repeating yourself like 3 times makes your point come across as more valid.

Hint: It doesn't.

It might make be valid-ish if they ask every interviewee about it, but asking a student that had a 'muslim name' and lots of arabic/muslim oriented activities comes off as stupid, if this ever happened. My interviewer and I talked about judaism and it was fine. I'm hindu by birth but mostly agnostic. The guy was stressing how religion isn't all that important at einstein because it's not 'really' a religious school even though there are lots of people that practice there and they have religious facilities.

GavinThePremed said:
Ok, well first you questioned whether or not this person was telling the truth, but are okay with the conjecture so as long as it refers to Einstein's innocence...cool.

It's inappropriate to ask as to the ethnicity of your recommenders, inappropriate to focus on the religious/ethnic group the student identifies, in a blatantly negative way, and it's inappropriate to conduct an interview in such an Islamaphobic way.
Click to expand...

Neither you nor I saw the full original thread. Why are you so intense about this?
 
ridethecliche said:
I'm glad you think repeating yourself like 3 times makes your point come across as more valid.

Hint: It doesn't.

It might make be valid-ish if they ask every interviewee about it, but asking a student that had a 'muslim name' and lots of arabic/muslim oriented activities comes off as stupid, if this ever happened. My interviewer and I talked about judaism and it was fine. I'm hindu by birth but mostly agnostic. The guy was stressing how religion isn't all that important at einstein because it's not 'really' a religious school even though there are lots of people that practice there and they have religious facilities.
Click to expand...
+1

Your interview = appropriate discussion on religion.

The other post = exact opposite.
 
GavinThePremed said:
Ok, well first you questioned whether or not this person was telling the truth, but are okay with the conjecture so as long as it refers to Einstein's innocence...cool.

It's inappropriate to ask as to the ethnicity of your recommenders, inappropriate to focus on the religious/ethnic group the student identifies, in a blatantly negative way, and it's inappropriate to conduct an interview in such an Islamaphobic way.
Click to expand...

I'm merely presenting an alternative narrative to the one that was presented. Im not willing to convict a well respected medical school with zero evidence like you're willing to.


You have no idea if the interview was islamaphobic or not. You weren't there and believing every word that guy said and not questioning it one bit is silly. I'm sorry but I don't believe everything I read. I often exaggerate things that happen in my interviews and at the very least I suspect that this happened.
 
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DoctorSynthesis said:
I'm merely presenting an alternative narrative to the one that was presented. Im not willing to convict a well respected medical school with zero evidence like you're willing to.


You have no idea if the interview was islamaphobic or not. You weren't there and believing every word that guy said and not questioning it one bit. I'm sorry but I don't believe everything I read. I often exaggerate things that happen in my interviews and at the very least I suspect that this happened.
Click to expand...

Dude, no one is saying "Einstein as an institution is an Islamaphobic Muslim-hating racist school." What I'm saying is there's a possibility there's a bad egg on their adcom, and they need to figure out who it is before that person disparages their school more.
 
ridethecliche said:
I'm glad you think repeating yourself like 3 times makes your point come across as more valid.

Hint: It doesn't.

It might make be valid-ish if they ask every interviewee about it, but asking a student that had a 'muslim name' and lots of arabic/muslim oriented activities comes off as stupid, if this ever happened. My interviewer and I talked about judaism and it was fine. I'm hindu by birth but mostly agnostic. The guy was stressing how religion isn't all that important at einstein because it's not 'really' a religious school even though there are lots of people that practice there and they have religious facilities.



Neither you nor I saw the full original thread. Why are you so intense about this?
Click to expand...

I repeated one line twice and that's such a minute thing to care about.

I know you interviewed there and didn't have this experience. So wouldn't you think this kind of thing would have been out of place at an Einstein interview? Maybe the school was misrepresented? Maybe this isn't the best place to have this discussion since we can't know what was said and what wasn't? Don't you think this is better dealt with the interviewee and Einstein?

@Ismet @Winged Scapula we need this thread deleted again.
 
GavinThePremed said:
Dude, no one is saying "Einstein as an institution is an Islamaphobic Muslim-hating racist school." What I'm saying is there's a possibility there's a bad egg on their adcom, and they need to figure out who it is before that person disparages their school more.
Click to expand...

There may or may not be but this isn't the place to figure that out. Hence the deletion of the last thread.
 
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Just an FYI. Not all interviewers are on the adcomm. Mine had to write a letter to admissions detailing our conversation and his thoughts on my candidacy. Don't confuse interviewers with adcomms.

DoctorSynthesis said:
I repeated one line twice and that's such a minute thing to care about.

I know you interviewed there and didn't have this experience. So wouldn't you think this kind of thing would have been out of place at an Einstein interview? Maybe the school was misrepresented? Maybe this isn't the best place to have this discussion since we can't know what was said and what wasn't? Don't you think this is better dealt with the interviewee and Einstein?

@Ismet @Winged Scapula we need this thread deleted again.
Click to expand...

I only spoke to one person that does not speak for the school. Agree that nothing will happen based on this thread and I still don't see the point of duking something like this out with the theoretical view of the institutions. It's like a weird strawman with premeds speaking for a school.

DoctorSynthesis said:
Their may or may not be but this isn't the place to figure that out. Hence the deletion of the last thread.
Click to expand...

I agree with this entirely.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Einstein at yeshiva is a Jewish school and can ask about isreal if they want to. Really a medical school interview doesn't have to be solely about medicine. If they want to ask about your opinion on they keystone pipeline that doesn't make them racist.

This has nothing to do with anti semitism BTW. Einstein has the right to ask about isreal if they want to. I'm sure adcoms here would agree with that statement.
Click to expand...
You don't see how it might be awkward to ask an Arab student about zionism? Even worse, how it might be insulting to ask an Arab student if he thinks ISIS is a threat (When the vast majority of those killed and ravaged by those terrorists are arabs/muslims)? That's just completely uncalled for.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
I repeated one line twice and that's such a minute thing to care about.

I know you interviewed there and didn't have this experience. So wouldn't you think this kind of thing would have been out of place at an Einstein interview? Maybe the school was misrepresented? Maybe this isn't the best place to have this discussion since we can't know what was said and what wasn't? Don't you think this is better dealt with the interviewee and Einstein?

@Ismet @Winged Scapula we need this thread deleted again.
Click to expand...

Are you on Einstein's PR team or something? Why are you so adamant about the interviewer being in the right?
 
NYCdude said:
You don't see how it might be awkward to ask an Arab student about zionism? Even worse, how it might be insulting to ask an Arab student if he thinks ISIS is a threat (When the vast majority of those killed and ravaged by those terrorists are arabs/muslims)? That's just completely uncalled for.
Click to expand...

Zionism? They were asking about isreal. I think its fine for einstein of yeshiva university to ask any of its students about isreal. Also ISIS is a current event. Its OK to talk about them. It would be wrong if the interviewer made the OP out to be a supporter of ISIS but that didn't happen.
 
looncat said:
Are you on Einstein's PR team or something? Why are you so adamant about the interviewer being in the right?
Click to expand...

Im saying we don't know. I'm not saying the interviewer was right or wrong. I'm saying you dont know and we can't judge on here. This isn't the place for it.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Zionism? They were asking about isreal. I think its fine for einstein of yeshiva university to ask any of its students about isreal. Also ISIS is a current event. Its OK to talk about them. It would be wrong if the interviewer made the OP out to be a supporter of ISIS but that didn't happen.
Click to expand...
lol I don't know what to say.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Zionism? They were asking about isreal. I think its fine for einstein of yeshiva university to ask any of its students about isreal. Also ISIS is a current event. Its OK to talk about them. It would be wrong if the interviewer made the OP out to be a supporter of ISIS but that didn't happen.
Click to expand...
Zionism = Israel

And I'm not saying this negatively or anything, but I'm pretty sure the leader of their government is an ardent Zionist.

It's inappropriate to discuss issues like this within interviews. It's like asking about gay marriage.
 
DoctorSynthesis said:
Im saying we don't know. I'm not saying the interviewer was right or wrong. I'm saying you dont know and we can't judge on here. This isn't the place for it.
Click to expand...

Ya but calling for the deletion of this thread and getting super heated about people not talking about this is a little extreme. Nobody is going to sue the school over an internet post so it's just odd how defensive you're being towards them.

I think it's important that people talk about this, it isn't a reflection of the school as a whole so if you're going there don't get upset.
 
GavinThePremed said:
Zionism = Israel

And I'm not saying this negatively or anything, but I'm pretty sure the leader of their government is an ardent Zionist.

It's inappropriate to discuss issues like this within interviews. It's like asking about gay marriage.
Click to expand...
Zionism as a movement deals with controversial lands. You can't talk about isreal separately from Zionism.

Also you can talk about gay people in a medical school interview. It wouldn't be OK if the interviewer rejected you based on differences in political ideology. That wasn't what happened here.

looncat said:
Ya but calling for the deletion of this thread and getting super heated about people not talking about this is a little extreme. Nobody is going to sue the school over an internet post so it's just odd how defensive you're being towards them.

I think it's important that people talk about this, it isn't a reflection of the school as a whole so if you're going there don't get upset.
Click to expand...

I'm just not in favor of internet trials where we convict people with zero evidence as people seem to like to do.
 
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