Electrical Engineering pre-med unique situation

[yacooob]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hey guys,

I have been lurking on SDN for a while now, and I have seen all different types of posts. Since you guys are knowledgeable on a lot of subjects, I was hoping you would be able to help me out with a couple inquiries I have. I want to let you know that I have called different school of medicine admission offices (it was helpful to an extent) and have tried to search for people in the same boat as I am in (on SDN and other websites), but haven't had any luck.

I'm currently studying Electrical Engineering at one of the UC campus' and I will be graduating in Spring of 2014. I transferred into the UC from a community college, where I took a few pre-reqs classes (intro to bio, physics 1/2, calculus).

I'm in a debt hole right now which isn't largely significant at the moment, but will become an issue when I graduate. I was told from a couple admission personnel that as a non-tradition student I would need to take the rest of my pre-reqs at a formal post-bacc program.

Post-baccs are super expensive from what I have read up on, and it seems very unlikely and unappealing that I would want to spend >26K per year for two years to finish pre-reqs.

Would I be able to take these courses at a community college or perhaps a state university? I will be applying to both D.O. and M.D. (if that kind of helps narrow things down).

My cumulative GPA is about 3.1, however, I am on an upward trend and have two years before graduation.

The courses I still need: Chem 1B, Chem 1C, All of the organic chemistry, all bio courses (besides the intro), biochemistry, and perhaps genetics?

I was thinking to split the lower division at CC, and the upper division at my state university.

You input/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I'm in a debt hole right now which isn't largely significant at the moment, but will become an issue when I graduate. I was told from a couple admission personnel that as a non-tradition student I would need to take the rest of my pre-reqs at a formal post-bacc program.

You can take the classes you need where is it economically feasible. No one can fault you for that. Formal post-bacc is not required. What if you lived where there wasn't one? Thats what happened to me so I had to do it on my own.


Would I be able to take these courses at a community college or perhaps a state university? I will be applying to both D.O. and M.D. (if that kind of helps narrow things down). You would be better off applying DO given your stats.


My cumulative GPA is about 3.1, however, I am on an upward trend and have two years before graduation. Your science GPA is going to be the important one.


The courses I still need: Chem 1B, Chem 1C, All of the organic chemistry, all bio courses (besides the intro), biochemistry, and perhaps genetics? You only need one year of biology. I would skip the genetics (you get what you need in biochem) and not waste your money. I would take micro over genetics, that is more important in the medical field clinically unless you plan to do genetics reasearch or a genetics specialist in planned parenting for families at risk for genetic disorders.


I was thinking to split the lower division at CC, and the upper division at my state university. Shouldn't matter where you take your classes. You need A's

 

[yacooob]

Thank you very much for the advice Cabinbuilder!

"You can take the classes you need where is it economically feasible. No one can fault you for that. Formal post-bacc is not required. What if you lived where there wasn't one? Thats what happened to me so I had to do it on my own."

That makes complete sense. I guess my worry is just how admission committees will view my transcript going into community college --> UC campus --> community college again and perhaps state school for upper division.

"You would be better off applying DO given your stats."

Would you recommend that I apply to M.D. as well, just to see what happens?

"You only need one year of biology. I would skip the genetics (you get what you need in biochem) and not waste your money. I would take micro over genetics, that is more important in the medical field clinically unless you plan to do genetics research or a genetics specialist in planned parenting for families at risk for genetic disorders."

Any other recommended courses besides micro for med school? E.g. physiology or perhaps immunology?

"Shouldn't matter where you take your classes. You need A's"

Awesome, thanks for the clarification


Thanks again for the reply I appreciate it.

 

[thefritz]

I'm a third year med student and a former electrical engineer.

Finish the electrical engineering degree. If you don't make it into med school, you'll be able to get a decent paying job.

Your GPA is too low to make it into med school as is. Med school is absurdly competitive in terms of GPA these days. Do what you can to boost it. Take as many fluff "easy A" classes as you can. It's all a game. You just have to play it.

Also, med school sucks and it's unlikely someone interested in electrical engineering will be interested in clinical medicine. Apples and oranges. Make sure you want to to do it.

Do what I did. Get a job in electrical engineering and take the prereqs at night at a community college. You'll make a lot of money, save money on classes (with a legitmate excuse -- a full time job), and learn if you really hate EE enough to go through the hell that is med school and residency.

 

[Yellow Jacket]

Graduate and get a job as an engineer and take classes as you work. That's what I have been doing and it is very doable. If you are lucky, the company you are working for will be paying the tuition (not the bio classes, but obviously chemistry is job related in most engineering jobs so they will not have a problem and will actually support you), therefore you can take those classes at a 700/ credit institution since most companies have about 10K a year cap.

 

[cabinbuilder]

That makes complete sense. I guess my worry is just how admission committees will view my transcript going into community college --> UC campus --> community college again and perhaps state school for upper division. Really, nobody cares. Nobody asks. Take them where you need to. There are so many non-trads out there going to medical school. They look at your trend and your grades.


Would you recommend that I apply to M.D. as well, just to see what happens?

I personally wouldn't waste my money on the MD side unless you have a really high MCAT and at least a 3.7 GPA. It is far too competitive to dink around with it and can get very expensive very quickly. The DO side looks at the entire package before deciding. The MD side generally has strict number cut offs and if your numbers aren't there, it's the automatic reject pile.


Any other recommended courses besides micro for med school? E.g. physiology or perhaps immunology? Immunology is covered in about 3 hours of lecture in medical school. It is horribly complicated and I think you would be wasting your time and efforts trying to deal with it in undergrad and you would be risking your GPA on a class you really don't need. I personally don't like physiology. If you know your anatomy before medical school, that is a huge benefit but that course is very time consuming.
[
Awesome, thanks for the clarification You are welcome.

 

[yacooob]

I'm a third year med student and a former electrical engineer.

Finish the electrical engineering degree. If you don't make it into med school, you'll be able to get a decent paying job.

Your GPA is too low to make it into med school as is. Med school is absurdly competitive in terms of GPA these days. Do what you can to boost it. Take as many fluff "easy A" classes as you can. It's all a game. You just have to play it.

Also, med school sucks and it's unlikely someone interested in electrical engineering will be interested in clinical medicine. Apples and oranges. Make sure you want to to do it.

Do what I did. Get a job in electrical engineering and take the prereqs at night at a community college. You'll make a lot of money, save money on classes (with a legitmate excuse -- a full time job), and learn if you really hate EE enough to go through the hell that is med school and residency.

Those are some good points. I am planning on working in the industry once I finish, and as you said probably take classes while working full-time. I have had medical school on my mind since the end of community college. Luckily I have been gaining some great experience in extra curricular activities. I have shadowed an otolaryngologist, anesthesiologist, (hematologist and orthopedic surgeon in clinics), urologist, and some other ones I am probably forgetting. I recently landed an electrical engineering research position in fiber optics at my university, that should be fun and worth some great experience. I spent 14 years of my life practicing and studying different styles of martial arts (kung-fu, tang soo do, taekwondo, shotokan, and kick boxing). My goals are to increase my GPA and to put emphasis onto a good MCAT score. Thanks for the advice!

 

[yacooob]

Graduate and get a job as an engineer and take classes as you work. That's what I have been doing and it is very doable. If you are lucky, the company you are working for will be paying the tuition (not the bio classes, but obviously chemistry is job related in most engineering jobs so they will not have a problem and will actually support you), therefore you can take those classes at a 700/ credit institution since most companies have about 10K a year cap.

That's straight up awesome. Most likely I will be working and attending community college once i graduate. Who would I approach at the company to find out if they are willing to pay for tuition? Perhaps billing? Thanks for the advice!

 

[yacooob]

That makes complete sense. I guess my worry is just how admission committees will view my transcript going into community college --> UC campus --> community college again and perhaps state school for upper division. Really, nobody cares. Nobody asks. Take them where you need to. There are so many non-trads out there going to medical school. They look at your trend and your grades.

Would you recommend that I apply to M.D. as well, just to see what happens?

I personally wouldn't waste my money on the MD side unless you have a really high MCAT and at least a 3.7 GPA. It is far too competitive to dink around with it and can get very expensive very quickly. The DO side looks at the entire package before deciding. The MD side generally has strict number cut offs and if your numbers aren't there, it's the automatic reject pile.


Any other recommended courses besides micro for med school? E.g. physiology or perhaps immunology? Immunology is covered in about 3 hours of lecture in medical school. It is horribly complicated and I think you would be wasting your time and efforts trying to deal with it in undergrad and you would be risking your GPA on a class you really don't need. I personally don't like physiology. If you know your anatomy before medical school, that is a huge benefit but that course is very time consuming.
[
Awesome, thanks for the clarification You are welcome.

Wow great responses, thank you!

I wrote some of my extra curricular activities on my reply to "thefritz." As far as extra curricular are concerned for D.O. is it any different than an M.D.

For instance, I believe for a good chunk/portion of D.O. schools require a LOR from a D.O.
I haven't shadowed any D.O. physicians at the moment, however, I am trying to look around and find someone in my city/area.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I wrote some of my extra curricular activities on my reply to "thefritz." As far as extra curricular are concerned for D.O. is it any different than an M.D. Not really, you answered your own question below, need to shadow a DO and hopefully one who uses OMM regularly so you can see the difference in practice styles especially with patients with back pain and headaches. Very easy to fix if you know what you are doing.



For instance, I believe for a good chunk/portion of D.O. schools require a LOR from a D.O.
This is definitely true


I haven't shadowed any D.O. physicians at the moment, however, I am trying to look around and find someone in my city/area Go on the AOA website and do a doctor search for a DO near you. Osteopathic.org

 

[yacooob]

I wrote some of my extra curricular activities on my reply to "thefritz." As far as extra curricular are concerned for D.O. is it any different than an M.D. Not really, you answered your own question below, need to shadow a DO and hopefully one who uses OMM regularly so you can see the difference in practice styles especially with patients with back pain and headaches. Very easy to fix if you know what you are doing.


For instance, I believe for a good chunk/portion of D.O. schools require a LOR from a D.O.
This is definitely true


I haven't shadowed any D.O. physicians at the moment, however, I am trying to look around and find someone in my city/area Go on the AOA website and do a doctor search for a DO near you. Osteopathic.org

Great website, thank you for that!

I actually had a question regarding post-bacc. A post-bacc would help increase the undergraduate GPA correct? But taking the pre-reqs at community college/state college would only increase the CGPA at the CC? This means if I am not going to a post-bacc program and only at CC/state college, my CGPA I end with at the UC will be unchanged right? The only way to increase my undergraduate CGPA/SGPA at my 4-year university would be to take a post-bacc program eh?

Thanks for your help Cabinbuilder. 🙂

 

[cabinbuilder]

Great website, thank you for that!

I actually had a question regarding post-bacc. A post-bacc would help increase the undergraduate GPA correct? But taking the pre-reqs at community college/state college would only increase the CGPA at the CC? This means if I am not going to a post-bacc program and only at CC/state college, my CGPA I end with at the UC will be unchanged right? The only way to increase my undergraduate CGPA/SGPA at my 4-year university would be to take a post-bacc program eh?

Thanks for your help Cabinbuilder. 🙂

OMG, I am confused by your confusion. You are forgetting that the reason you take classes over is because AACOMAS allows for grade replacement so your C in bio becomes an A when you retake and you plug your grades into the application. On the MD side that C becomes a B with the A because the MD side averages. You can't change your undergrad GPA, once that is set, it''s set. Post bacc whether formal or informal just means you are taking the pre-reqs for the first time post degree or you are taking failed classes over for GPA repair. SO the GPA has NOTHING to do with where you are taking the classes. It has to do with the final after you plug all your classes into the application and AACOMAS does the calcuation.

Just be careful that if you take a class over, it is the same level, same credit hours if you retake at a different school.

 

[yacooob]

OMG, I am confused by your confusion. You are forgetting that the reason you take classes over is because AACOMAS allows for grade replacement so your C in bio becomes an A when you retake and you plug your grades into the application. On the MD side that C becomes a B with the A because the MD side averages. You can't change your undergrad GPA, once that is set, it''s set. Post bacc whether formal or informal just means you are taking the pre-reqs for the first time post degree or you are taking failed classes over for GPA repair. SO the GPA has NOTHING to do with where you are taking the classes. It has to do with the final after you plug all your classes into the application and AACOMAS does the calcuation.

Just be careful that if you take a class over, it is the same level, same credit hours if you retake at a different school.

Sorry for the confusion! That makes complete sense, thank you. I'm going to give you a little example.

Lets say I receive a 3.3 GPA at my 4-year university in EE (with no pre-reqs complete). Then i go to CC and complete all my pre-reqs where i land a ~3.5/6. Does the SGPA take into account all pre-req courses, where the CGPA is the culmination of all courses at the 4-year university and CC? Sorry if this question comes off as being unclear or stupid. Please let me know if you would like me to rephrase the question.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Sorry for the confusion! That makes complete sense, thank you. I'm going to give you a little example.

Lets say I receive a 3.3 GPA at my 4-year university in EE (with no pre-reqs complete). Then i go to CC and complete all my pre-reqs where i land a ~3.5/6. Does the SGPA take into account all pre-req courses, where the CGPA is the culmination of all courses at the 4-year university and CC? Sorry if this question comes off as being unclear or stupid. Please let me know if you would like me to rephrase the question.

See below for clarification between MD and DO calculations of GPA. Yes the CGPA is ALL classes taken where ever you took them. Science GPA for DO schools is physics, chemistry, and biology. Science GPA for MD schools includes math. Really, your GPA for engineering doesn't mean much in this instance. It's going to come down to the pre-req's in your situation. And again, NO ONE is going to care where you take them as long as you do well in them.


GPA Calculator
Professional and graduate schools, and the application services they use, expect you to report all attempted classes as part of your overall GPA calculation. Please refer to the "course work" sections of the instruction manuals -- available below -- for how to accurately compute your Math-Science or Science GPA and overall GPA based on your professional goals.




AMCAS for applicants to Allopathic Medical Schools (MD):

BCPM GPA: all Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math courses, including both grades from repeated courses.

Overall GPA: all undergraduate courses, including both grades from repeated courses.

AACOMAS for applicants to Osteopathic Medical Schools (DO):

Science GPA: Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses; only the last instance of a repeated course is included.
Overall GPA: all undergraduate courses; only the last instance of a repeated course is included.

 

[yacooob]

See below for clarification between MD and DO calculations of GPA. Yes the CGPA is ALL classes taken where ever you took them. Science GPA for DO schools is physics, chemistry, and biology. Science GPA for MD schools includes math. Really, your GPA for engineering doesn't mean much in this instance. It's going to come down to the pre-req's in your situation. And again, NO ONE is going to care where you take them as long as you do well in them.


GPA Calculator
Professional and graduate schools, and the application services they use, expect you to report all attempted classes as part of your overall GPA calculation. Please refer to the "course work" sections of the instruction manuals -- available below -- for how to accurately compute your Math-Science or Science GPA and overall GPA based on your professional goals.




AMCAS for applicants to Allopathic Medical Schools (MD):

BCPM GPA: all Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math courses, including both grades from repeated courses.

Overall GPA: all undergraduate courses, including both grades from repeated courses.

AACOMAS for applicants to Osteopathic Medical Schools (DO):

Science GPA: Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses; only the last instance of a repeated course is included.
Overall GPA: all undergraduate courses; only the last instance of a repeated course is included.

This is an extremely useful and thoughtful explanation. I can't thank you enough Cabinbuilder. I appreciate all the advice you have given me. 🙂 👍

 

[EE12BMD]

AACOMAS for applicants to Osteopathic Medical Schools (DO):

Science GPA: Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses; only the last instance of a repeated course is included.
Overall GPA: all undergraduate courses; only the last instance of a repeated course is included.

I think AACOMAS includes engineering courses in their science GPA calc...

 

[cabinbuilder]

I think AACOMAS includes engineering courses in their science GPA calc...

I don't think so. The info I posted I cut and pasted off the AACOMAS website and engineering is not listed. If they don't include math, why would they include engineering?

 

[ChE04]

I think AACOMAS includes engineering courses in their science GPA calc...

I've no experience with the DO application, but as far as I know TMDSAS is the only one to count engineering.

 

[EE12BMD]

I don't think so. The info I posted I cut and pasted off the AACOMAS website and engineering is not listed. If they don't include math, why would they include engineering?

Well AACOMAS got it on their site.... and TDMSAS do include it in their science calc too...

https://aacomas.aacom.org/survey/views/client/aacomas/collegesinstructions4.html

GPA and Credit Hour Computations

AACOMAS will calculate your GPA and credit hours according to the following rules -- GPAs and credit hours will be calculated for Science, Non-Science and All course work. Science GPAs include Biology/Zoology, Biochemistry, Inorganic Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Other Science, and Physics. Non-science GPAs include Behavioral Science, English, Math, and Other Non-science.

Other Science
Agricultural Science
Astronomy
Chiropractic
Electronics
Engineering
Epidemiology
Geology
Kinesiology
Medical Technology
Meteorology
Nutrition
Pharmacy
Physical Anthropology
Physical Geography
Physical Science
Physician Assistant
Radiology

 

[cabinbuilder]

Fair Enough. Glad I am so far removed from having to worry about that anymore.