Eli5: how will the merger affect specialties like fm, pmr, psych?

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Yeah so I was curious, had a bit of time, and figured what the heck. I randomly check the first 60 Psych programs on Freida. About 1/3-1/2 don't list data, and of those that did, the highest cutoff for Step 1 was 210, and that was only one program. Most were either 192, 200 or 205. Averages of recent residents were almost across the board 201-220, but a couple were 221-240.

Yeah, I mean unless that first 60 on the list are very unrepresentative of most psych program (they constitute like 30% of them), then I kind of doubt the majority have cutoffs on Freida of 220.

I think 220 is probably representative of a very highly competitive area like Socal. Most psych programs don't have major cutoffs because they're more happy taking someone with a 193 who is good with patients than a 240 who shakes when he talks to someone with mild depression.

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[AlbinoHawk DO]

I can't speak for psych and PM&R; but for FM and/or IM a 210 is borderline not good enough these days. Certainly not for a decent program.

I don't think this is the case considering the average for all people is 229. Those wanting to go into FM on average have a lower average.

Unless your definition of a "decent" program is different than what most people think, I'd say you're off the mark. Can we both agree that Loma Linda University FM is a "decent" program? Because if we do, their average is 201-220 with 192 being minimum consideration.

 

[sazerac]

When I checked FREIDA online, the most common minimum Step 1 score required for a psych interview was 220.

Well I stand corrected. I can't find a single program that requires 220 now, and I checked a dozen high end programs and other programs I applied to. Either I was smoking crack, or the FREIDA database is a lot more accurate in December than it was in September.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well I stand corrected. I can't find a single program that requires 220 now, and I checked a dozen high end programs and other programs I applied to. Either I was smoking crack, or the FREIDA database is a lot more accurate in December than it was in September.

Rye Bourbon is preferable to crack.

 

[SLC]

I don't think this is the case considering the average for all people is 229. Those wanting to go into FM on average have a lower average.

Unless your definition of a "decent" program is different than what most people think, I'd say you're off the mark. Can we both agree that Loma Linda University FM is a "decent" program? Because if we do, their average is 201-220 with 192 being minimum consideration.

A lot of programs have these "minimum consideration" numbers. I think my program has a 200, that doesn't mean we interview many people with 200's, or match anyone with that score. I mean I guess we would if we really really wanted a particular person; but our ROL list was still mainly in the mid-230's when we hit the lower half of it. This year looks to be significantly stronger. Maybe we're not typical; but I have a feeling that places like UDub, Ventura, OHSU etc are similar to us.

And my definition of decent program is based on what I came across on the interview trail. The better places had higher requirements than most of the other programs and I also knew that simply meeting their "minimum" wasn't going to guarantee anyone anything.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Well I stand corrected. I can't find a single program that requires 220 now, and I checked a dozen high end programs and other programs I applied to. Either I was smoking crack, or the FREIDA database is a lot more accurate in December than it was in September.

Yeah no offense but this is the major case with SDN.

Folks talkin' out of their ass and freakin' out about nothing.

 

[SLC]

It's been an obnoxious tendency of yours since the day you scrambled into the program. Defense mechanisms are a lovely thing it would seem...

You could...you know, not read the posts. Place me on ignore or something.

But fine, I'll help you out. You think I'm obnoxious, I can leave the forum if you like. It's no problem for me, just say the word.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Lets keep things professional.

 

[Goro]

I doubt if anyone knows. NBME doesn't tell us Step I results, and my students only self-report, so only get a window, not the collective.

I'm genuinely interested in knowing which DO schools have 225-230 average. The couple "well-established" schools I know have a step1 average below 220. Please keep in mind that this doesn't even account for the fact that half of the class doesn't participate in the USMLE.

I agree with the point you are trying to make, however. 230 is the average score for step1 (229 actually), so statistically speaking, half of those who took it scored below 230. Primary care specialties tend to take the lion share of the bottom half of applicants. Therefore, it's a fair assumption that the vast majority of people going into FM have scores lower than 230.

SLC attends a prestigious program (I think I have an idea which one it is). I wouldn't be surprised that his program interviews top of the crop FM applicants on a regular basis. Therefore, the fact that his program interviews people with boards scores 2 STDV above that of the average FM applicant doesn't make FM more competitive than it has historically been.

 

[jw3600]

It's been an obnoxious tendency of yours since the day you scrambled into the program. Defense mechanisms are a lovely thing it would seem...

LOL. I love it.

-I start off thinking god damn this SLC is guy pretentious. And as a Fm resident? Only 230-240+ for interviews?? Is he nuts.

-Someone calls him out for constantly overnight inflating his program, which he of course denies. Then a poster who doesn't eat up garbage literally finds half a dozen quotes with the words prestigious or elite littered amongst them.

-Then I'm trying to remember how I know this guys name. And I'm like I swear he was like the main poster in some scramble thread a couple years ago.

-Boom. Old reliable SS puts him in his place. He's literally boasting about a scramble FM spot that sometimes doesn't fill.

I don't know how you walk away from this thread anything other but embarrassed and with an L man.

 

[jw3600]

Lets keep things professional.

My bad. I didn't see this until I made my comment. I shall cease and desist.

 

[SLC]

LOL. I love it.

-I start off thinking god damn this SLC is guy pretentious. And as a Fm resident? Only 230-240+ for interviews?? Is he nuts.

-Someone calls him out for constantly overnight inflating his program, which he of course denies. Then a poster who doesn't eat up garbage literally finds half a dozen quotes with the words prestigious or elite littered amongst them.

-Then I'm trying to remember how I know this guys name. And I'm like I swear he was like the main poster in some scramble thread a couple years ago.

-Boom. Old reliable SS puts him in his place. He's literally boasting about a scramble FM spot that sometimes doesn't fill.

I don't know how you walk away from this thread anything other but embarrassed and with an L man.

My offer to SS stands, and I'll extend it to you. Say the word and I'll leave. No skin off my nose.

In the meantime, quit trolling.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Yo... let's all chill.

Both of my peeps in FM and Gen Surg are rollin' in cash and ballin' hard.

Who gives two flying effs if somebody soap'ed into a spot and who cares if your residency is filled with only folks with Ivy league name brands.

At the end of the day...

Y'all are professionals that us med students look up to.

SDN...

where errrryybooddyyy in tha club gettinnn' tipsy

 

[jw3600]

My offer to SS stands, and I'll extend it to you. Say the word and I'll leave. No skin off my nose.

In the meantime, quit trolling.

I know it's hip to misuse words nowadays but I'm not trolling. Trolling is saying things to rile people up solely to get a reaction whether you believe them or not. I'm not doing that. I'm sincere in my enjoyment in you getting called out on your pretentiousness.

As to you leaving or staying. Feel free to do whatever you like. Just know that people are free to make comments on your stated position as they see fit.

 

[SLC]

I know it's hip to misuse words nowadays but I'm not trolling. Trolling is saying things to rile people up solely to get a reaction whether you believe them or not. I'm not doing that. I'm sincere in my enjoyment in you getting called out on your pretentiousness.

As to you leaving or staying. Feel free to do whatever you like. Just know that people are free to make comments on your stated position as they see fit.

I'll invite you to review this stickied thread at the top of this, the osteopathic forum:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/derailing-threads-and-unproductive-posts.988630/

Pay particular attention to the first two bullet points.

Give some thought to how it is you think your post contributed to this thread while the moderators do the same...your post has been reported.

 

[jw3600]

I'll invite you to review this stickied thread at the top of this, the osteopathic forum:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/derailing-threads-and-unproductive-posts.988630/

Pay particular attention to the first two bullet points.

Give some thought to how it is you think your post contributed to this thread while the moderators do the same...your post has been reported.

I'll concede not much. Similar to dozens of your inaccurate posts about step 1 scores for FM?

 

[hallowmann]

No one else cares about this argument. Stop it. It's over.

Back to the topic at hand. The merger isn't really affecting those fields except by letting DOs apply and rank more broadly due to not having to choose between matches and what not. That said, those fields are in general becoming more competitive because of how the medical school climate is changing regardless of the merger.

(1) Med school matriculant averages are going up across the board for MD and DO schools, (2) there will be about 10,000 more AMGs in the next few years compared to 10 years ago (due to MD and DO expansion that numerically has been very similar) and only about 6,000 new residency spots to compensate, (3) those residency applicants are numerically more competitive than in previous years, and ultimately (4) the application process/technology has made it much easier for applicants to apply to a huge number of programs "just because" and forced programs to dig through those huge numbers of applications with almost arbitrary filters that they wouldn't have considered in the past, but now must due to the sheer nunber of applications they have to whittle down.

This doesn't even take into account the normal ebbs and flows of specialty interest that tends to happen over time (see: rads/gas and psych).