- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
What are considered the elite programs in the country? What programs are considered top 3-5?
Elite Programs
- Thread starter Radiologyreviews2015
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2013
- Messages
- 426
- Reaction score
- 225
Lol.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
... lots and lots of discussions about this. just scroll through the forums...
Elite: UCSF, MGH. Others: Penn, Hopkins, Brigham, NYU, MIR, Michigan, Duke
Elite: UCSF, MGH. Others: Penn, Hopkins, Brigham, NYU, MIR, Michigan, Duke
MGH, BWH, Hopkins, UCSF, MIR, UPenn and Duke.
NYU and UMich are not in the same League. It doesn't mean you won't get even a better education at these programs but they don't have the brand name of Hopkins, MGH or BWH or the very unique reputation of UCSF.
NYU and UMich are not in the same League. It doesn't mean you won't get even a better education at these programs but they don't have the brand name of Hopkins, MGH or BWH or the very unique reputation of UCSF.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
What do you mean by "unique reputation of UCSF"?
It means it has a unanimous excellent reputation nationally among radiologists. Probably unique is not a good term for it.
D
deleted564680
UCSF doesn't have a "medicine name" throughout the whole country either but according to SDN it's unanimous radiologic heaven. I would say top 2 by name only would be MGH and Hopkins if you're looking for guaranteed "ooh and ahhs" from every type of doctor in every state in the country.
The rest of the list above are again amazing in radiology - Duke, MIR, Penn, BWH but oddly may not get you the same "awe factor" as even places with bigger names relative to their "worse" radiology prestige like Yale, Mayo, or Cleveland Clinic if you're asking people outside the specialty. The general public and even other doctors don't know "the top 10 radiology programs" but everyone has heard of Yale, Mayo, and Cleveland Clinic.
The question though is who are you trying to impress? Yourself? Your family? Radiologists? Other doctors? These "name" programs will vary with each audience but really only MGH and Hopkins will impress every subset in every part of the country.
The rest of the list above are again amazing in radiology - Duke, MIR, Penn, BWH but oddly may not get you the same "awe factor" as even places with bigger names relative to their "worse" radiology prestige like Yale, Mayo, or Cleveland Clinic if you're asking people outside the specialty. The general public and even other doctors don't know "the top 10 radiology programs" but everyone has heard of Yale, Mayo, and Cleveland Clinic.
The question though is who are you trying to impress? Yourself? Your family? Radiologists? Other doctors? These "name" programs will vary with each audience but really only MGH and Hopkins will impress every subset in every part of the country.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
Where the hell does UCSF not have a medicine name?
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
DO bias!
Subjective grading!
Okay, see you guys next time this topic comes up.
Subjective grading!
Okay, see you guys next time this topic comes up.
BWH is an exception to your rule because you can tell the general public that you were trained at "Harvard" and you are not lying. Also disagree that UCSF does not have medicine name. It is considered an excellent training program among physicians.
The name brand of program can be assessed at 3 levels:
1- Among radiologists: MIR, Hopkins, UCSF, MGH and BWH are all very impressive and open a lot of doors if you want to get an academic job. For private practice, local big academic center works the best.
2- Among other physicians: MIR is still Wash U and is considered a top hospital. The same for MGH, BWH, Hopkins or UCSF.
3- Among general public: Harvard and Hopkins and even Yale impress general public more than MIR and Cleaveland Clinic. For example, in California people don't get impressed by Cleaveland Clinic name but everyone knows Yale and Hopkins.
At the end of the day you have to choose what works best for you.
D
deleted564680
The Midwest.
Definitely true about "Harvard." People know that name. WashU also.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
Stanford?
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
Most people aren't going to top places hoping to get jobs in the midwest.
D
deleted564680
That's a shame because it's the best living.
The best jobs are in rural midwest. It has been the case always.
You can't call most people stupid. There is a good reason that people do two fellowships to get a job in SF, Boston or LA which is much more work, less secure and still pays half of what they can make in midwest by doing only one fellowship.
The reality it that we make enough to live a comfortable and upper class life anywhere IF we can find a good job. After a few years in practice this will be your priorities:
Location >> Quality of the job >> Money
I have lived in east coast, midwest, intermountain area, south in the past and then moved to California. Coastal California is like a heaven compared to most parts of the country. Honestly, I won't live in midwest even if you pay me twice my current salary. East coast salaries are similar or even less than Cali so no need to argue. YMMV.
D
deleted564680
I didn't call anyone stupid. I know people have their own opinions.
I prefer seasonal weather, lower taxes, conservative government, friendly culture/people, and my money to go far.
As I said YMMV.
Lower taxes and "your money to go far" are less important when you make enough to have a comfortable life. I don't ignore that it is important but not as much as you may think now. That 30-40K that you may pay less in taxes has less importance than you may think after 5-10 years of private practice work.
I personally would rather be able to drive to the beach any weekend of the year (or go on a 70 degree hike), then spend many tens of thousands of dollars escaping the winter. The money you are saving by taking the Midwest job will easily be eaten up by such expenses. Life is too short to be bored by where you live.
D
deleted564680
And I dislike the beach and love the winter 🙂
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2008
- Messages
- 995
- Reaction score
- 507
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
What about Cornell? Top 10, yo.
Agreed.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2014
- Messages
- 4,509
- Reaction score
- 4,134
ya man it sucks these days with plane tickets costing 30k each way
They take vacation.
I live 10 minutes from the beach. Someone mentioned that he/she hates the beach. People have different tastes, but a lot of vacation destinations in the world are across the beach. I love the beach and water sports.
I can drive 2 hours or even less and get to relatively nice mountains. I can drive 2-3 hours and ski. The ski resort is not world class, but I am also not a professional skier. I can drive 2 hours and get to the desert.
The diversity and quality of food is probably only second to New York here. Night life is very good, not comparable to Manhattan but still very good.
AND the weather is great year round. Last weekend all of my friends in east coast were freezing and I was playing volleyball on the beach.
The dream of having 10 weeks of vacation to travel becomes very important if you live in a place that you dislike or in a place that there are not a lot of things to do.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
Shark! I believe you about how awesome california is, I'm not one of those defending the midwest. Hire me plz!
All this talk about California is making me wonder if I made the right decision to rank a mid-tier program in the South/Southwest over a community program in LA near my hometown last year...
Looking outside at the gloom and crappy weather...
The better training better be worth it.
and @shark2000 please hire me in 6 years lol
Looking outside at the gloom and crappy weather...
The better training better be worth it.
and @shark2000 please hire me in 6 years lol
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2002
- Messages
- 863
- Reaction score
- 651
Living close to family/friends is also an important factor to consider. You can always work hard at your South/SW program and land a spot in a strong fellowship in the geographic area of your choice. I'm originally from the northeast (tristate area) and am currently living in northern cali working in a pretty solid private practice. Weather/quality of life (in addition to the quality of the job) are great, but at times I wonder whether I would be happier living close to family in a "crappier" environment/job.
Yeah, I'm so glad I don't want to practice in a highly desirable area.
That means I don't have to be classmates with the incorrigible and arrogant schmucks that frequent those "top" programs. I've met quite a few of them on the interview trail, and didn't like any of them.
Maybe generalization, but dunno about justification. I met probably around 10 interviewees that really wanted to go to a "top" program, and they were absolutely unbearable. As to whether or not all of them are, I can't say.
As for me, I've never wanted to be a top tier academic clinician, so I don't know that it would have been necessary to go to those places.
Those places that are listed as "top tier" also are located in cities with a very high cost of living. Something I'm not interested in at all. That Mustang I just bought by NOT being at those programs is pretty freaking sweet.
I've never wanted to live in California, so I cancelled my California interviews (not an easy thing to get, with being from WV).
I want to practice in a rural setting. Maybe in rural Texas, so my program is perfectly fine.
Thanks for the useful comment though. Which one did you go to residency at? I'd bet UCSF.
Last edited:
Wouldn't call it justification. I felt very similarly when interviewing. A lot of obnoxious people non-stop getting off to their top whatever invites/rank lists. Working with some of them would be insufferable.
Like it or not, there are lots of high egos in medicine esp among non radiologists. As a radiologist you have to deal with surgeons, ED doctors, family doctors, IM doctors and etc on a daily basis. Many of these people have high egos and are hard to work with. You can not escape it. You have to accept it and LEARN how to deal with these people.
Escape may work temporarily but is an immature reaction.
Dealing with those people in a consult capacity is an intermittent, temporary nuisance. They call or stop in, ask their question, then leave. They literally take up a few minutes of your time at each interaction.
If you have to deal with them all the time when consulting, why would you want to just lay down and accept dealing with them as co-workers? I can only imagine how trying to trade shifts with one of those guys would go...Anyway, justify it all you want (see what I did there???!!!!!!!???!?!?!?! 🙂), as an applicant, I'm not going to voluntarily go to a program that seems to attract arrogant jerks.
Last edited:
You don't know what you are talking about because you are just a resident and have not had the experience of real world.
The interaction with clinicians is temporary and at times can be very annoying. Almost all practicing radiologists constantly receive emails or messages from referring doctors complaining about their reports or demand something unreasonable. Many of these complains will go to the hospital admins or to other referring physicians.
I can tolerate even the most malignant radiologist in my group 10 times easier than an obnoxious referring physician. Don't forget that in private practice you can not simply tell your referring clinicians "go to hell".
Calling the people who go to top programs arrogant jerks is a good example of your inferiority complex and your pathologic personality. Grow a pair and admit that you could not make it to the so called top programs and move on. One of my former classmates used to say " it is better to tell people that you did not match at MGH than to tell them you chose a crappy program over MGH." There is nothing wrong with not matching at MGH or a top program. But in the latter case, people will think that you are either lying or you are crazy.
You're reminding me of why I stopped visiting this board. It's because of my inferiority complex and my pathologic personality.
Later, dude. Enjoy that life.
Take note, applicants.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2009
- Messages
- 1,673
- Reaction score
- 1,770
Ok it's time to name and shame. What programs are so full of "these people"? I'm at an "elite" program and there is perhaps one resident in the 100 residents and fellows I dislike. I know tons of people at other programs and they aren't the way you describe.
Either we interviewed at different programs, or this might be a case of "if everyone is an dingus, perhaps the the dingus is you"
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2015
- Messages
- 1,181
- Reaction score
- 74
What?! You don't like a resident at MGH?! Please do tell, time to name and shame 😛 anyways, I heard your program director often falls asleep at the workstation, time for some change?
Yeah, I think that there are plenty of arrogant and obnoxious people that are shooting for top programs and don't realize how annoying they are blabbing about their interviews and whatnot. But from my interview at Hopkins, I thought most of the residents and some applicants were actually down to earth, normal people. I specifically said in my interview with a resident how surprised I was that everyone was normal. Programs that are very competitive and highly desired get to pick the people that are not only personable but also very intelligent.
Most residents are happy where they are and will justify it. I don't believe the chief resident at (insert random top 20-50 program here) that told me every resident had ranked them 1 or 2. If I end up at Emory over Hopkins, it's because I wasn't good enough for their program, not the other way around.
Most residents are happy where they are and will justify it. I don't believe the chief resident at (insert random top 20-50 program here) that told me every resident had ranked them 1 or 2. If I end up at Emory over Hopkins, it's because I wasn't good enough for their program, not the other way around.
Like I said, I didn't interview at any of those places. I made a cutoff at about mid-Virginia and went south. I wanted nothing to do with those programs for a number of reasons (climate, cost of living, etc). The impression I got from the other applicants I saw, that I've already mentioned, just made me go, "Wow, that was a good decision." Not like I avoided the programs because of those people.
I'm telling you that the applicants I couldn't stand on the interview trail, by and large, wanted to go to top tier programs. Not that all the applicants for those programs, or the residents that eventually matched there, are all like that. Maybe they get screened out later in the process. I couldn't tell you.
We have one resident I would like to get rid of, too. That's inevitable. There are just going to be people we don't like anywhere we go. It's what makes the world go round, right? I was giving my experience in this thread, because I feel that it was warranted. I'm glad someone at one of these programs chimed in and said it wasn't the case. Then again, similar to what you said, maybe all of you dingus(es?) fit in well together and the one guy you don't like is the normal one 😉
Last edited:
D
deleted564680
As I've stated previously in this thread, I never want to ultimately live in the NE or California (cost of living, culture, etc), but if MGH picked me, I'd go. There are some programs (probably 2-3) that you go to regardless of any other views you may have.
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2005
- Messages
- 287
- Reaction score
- 12
Dudes here is some practical advice - I'd put MGH as top of the heap. It just is, and here is a real life example. I have 4 friends who went there in different subspecialties (IR, body, breast) - all got great job offers. Heck even I interviewed there for fellowship there but chose to stay close to home. Some names carry you far and PP or academics jiz in their pants when they hear MGH.
Keep it real.
I would state that they are a fellow driven program so fellowship from MGH >> residency.
UCSF has same resonance in Cali for PP jobs and Kaiser (they are a feeder) but MGH is an unquestionable all over USA brand name.
Keep it real.
I would state that they are a fellow driven program so fellowship from MGH >> residency.
UCSF has same resonance in Cali for PP jobs and Kaiser (they are a feeder) but MGH is an unquestionable all over USA brand name.
