EM and "burnout"

[pj_seattle]

I am a first year and I have always been interested in EM. I worked in an emergency department and enjoyed it, but now everyone cautions me away from it and says that the "burn out" rate is too high.

I would love to hear opinions on this from anyone who has experience in the field, especially EM docs or residents. Do you think you will "burn out"?

Also, in a word or two what are the things you like best/least about EM?

Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by pj_seattle
I am a first year and I have always been interested in EM. I worked in an emergency department and enjoyed it, but now everyone cautions me away from it and says that the "burn out" rate is too high.

I would love to hear opinions on this from anyone who has experience in the field, especially EM docs or residents. Do you think you will "burn out"?

Also, in a word or two what are the things you like best/least about EM?

Thanks.

I have two comments. One, older docs will talk about the burnout of non-EM trained docs working in the ED. As far as I know, there are no studies that look at the attrition rate of EM residency trained docs compared to other specialties. I know they have done satisfaction surveys of EM docs and the satisfication is quite high. So, I would tell those docs that comment about burnout "there is no evidence to support that." That should shut them up, unless they're a surgeon.

Secondly, I know you have to plan for a career, but if deep in your heart you feel that EM is the only right choice for you, then prophylactic career planning is a stupid reason to avoid it. I'd rather have 10, 20, ?30 years in a specialty which I currently live and go nuts and quit then spend 40 years in a specialty where I know I will start off from day one being miserable.

Lastly, you're a first year. It's good you're thinking about this, but concentrate on doing as well as possible your first two years. In third year, try to schedule some time shadowing an ED doc at an EM RESIDENCY program. ie, don't shadow an EM doc (who might not be EM board certified) in a little ****ty ED like my university hospital of my med school. I say this because you usually don't do EM rotations until 4th year at most places and because you're going to be getting lots of negative views of EM from surgery, IM.

mike

 

[Seaglass]

Good advice. I'll tell you that I was asked about this a lot on the interview trail and my response was both that burn-out was probably more of an issue before we became a specialty drawing people who intended from day 1 to do EM, and that there are so many practice styles available to EM physicians that you have to be able to find something that fits your personality or you aren't looking. Just look at the number of styles represented in this forum, there's plenty out there.

Now do what PJ said.

Casey

 

[beyond all hope]

I've met burned out surgeons, psychiatrists, internists and pediatricians, as well as ER docs. I've also met a lot of docs in their sixties who have been doing it for fourty years, can't imagine retiring, and don't want to do anything else.

There have been several studies showing that all specialities have burnout, and a recent study showing that EM-trained EM docs burn out at about the same rate as anyone else.

Do what you think you want to do. There are opportunities to change fields, retrain, etc. Besides, there is a lot of flexibility within a specialty. Administration, teaching, research, they sound pretty dull now but just wait a few years and see how you feel.

 

[jonwilli]

there has to be some of the same opportunities for EM docs as there are for others, such as doing clinic work, fast track, or something like that if there is an issue with burn-out asa you age!!

j

 

[youcandoit]

Hi there - consider reading "Just Here Trying to Save a Few Lives" by Dr. Pamela Grim. Its a pretty depressing book in that I think Dr. Grim experiences a lot of burnout as an ER doctor; it seems like all her patients died, and she didn't include many positive or uplifting stories, she never talks of an outside family life or anything like that. I actually hated that book but have tried to take from it lessons on preventing future burnout or at least use it as a worst-case scenario for job prospect... meaning, it can't get much worse than this!

 

[NinerNiner999]

Many great words of advice above. That being said, you are a first year medical student, and have not yet even worked hard yet (no offense, but second year is usually when things pick up a bit, third year is its own ball game). You know yourself the best, and will find your limits by the end of your third year. If you don't either you lack something important personally or you will excel in any field you choose.

Clinical medicine offers many unique challenges, and each field deals with them in their own way. the burnout question is one that only you can answer. Any job, be it medicine, business, or shining shoes will have its down days and moments you wake up in the morning and just don't want to go. I think the trick is finding the career where those days are greatly outnumbered by the days you wake up with a smile to go to work. That is why I chose EM - because I liked being there and found nothing better I would ever want to do - my "calling" of sorts. The nay-sayers will always label our field as having high Burnout, and that is because one negative doctor can have more impact on other people than 100 happy ones.

To stop my rambling - take the time during your third year to learn more than the clinical aspects of treating patients. Learn yourself, your limits, and how you handle situations and moments of adversity. Only then will you know where you stand on the "burn-out" issue.

 

[pj_seattle]

Sound advice from all. Thanks.

 

[cowbydoc]

One other reason I have heard for the "high" rate of ER doc burnout is the the personalities of ER physicians tend to be the ones who like the big, bad toys. I know of a few residents and attendings who went out and bought anything from trucks to boats to a very nice Ferrari and then had to work very hard for very long and burnt out because of their loans.

 

[Sessamoid]

One other reason I have heard for the "high" rate of ER doc burnout is the the personalities of ER physicians tend to be the ones who like the big, bad toys. I know of a few residents and attendings who went out and bought anything from trucks to boats to a very nice Ferrari and then had to work very hard for very long and burnt out because of their loans.

Wow, you revived a long dead thread! Anyway, yeah, you're right. Cause I"ve never met a surgeon who bought way too much crap then ended up working to support his collection of stuff. Actually, the problems I've seen more often among surgeons is paying alimony to their ex-wife/wives. Not that EP's don't get divorced too, but in my limited experience (though more extensive the most on these boards) the surgeons are divorced far more often.