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Easy. Here's my July Schedule. Feel free to stop by if you're not a drug seeker.
1 Off
2 6a-2p
3 6a-2p
4 2p-10p
5-7 Off
8 6p-2a
9 6p-2a
10 6p-2a
11-12 Off
13 2p-10p
14 2p-10p
15 2p-10p
16 Off
17 2p-10p
18 Off
19 6a-2p
20 Off
21 6p-2a
22-23 Off
24 6a-2p
25-31 Off
That's 13 shifts and 17 days off including a 3 day block, two 2 day blocks, and a 7 day block. That's one more shift than I normally work. Not sure why. Probably about time to hire again maybe.
1 Off
2 6a-2p
3 6a-2p
4 2p-10p
5-7 Off
8 6p-2a
9 6p-2a
10 6p-2a
11-12 Off
13 2p-10p
14 2p-10p
15 2p-10p
16 Off
17 2p-10p
18 Off
19 6a-2p
20 Off
21 6p-2a
22-23 Off
24 6a-2p
25-31 Off
That's 13 shifts and 17 days off including a 3 day block, two 2 day blocks, and a 7 day block. That's one more shift than I normally work. Not sure why. Probably about time to hire again maybe.
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I see you have 4 overnight shifts. How much variability is there with this?
Piggybacking on this, which shifts are most sought after in your practice? If someone wanted to work solely the 2-10pm and 6p-2a shifts could they?
Here's mine
1 - 2-10
2- 3-11
3 - 1-9
4 - 3-11
5,6,7 off
8 - 8a-4p
9 - 7a-7p
10 7a-7p
11 7P-7A
12, 13, 14, 15 off
16 - 7p-7a
17, 18 off
19 - 8-4
20 2-10
21 - 5p-1a
22 - 11p - 7a
23, 24, 25, 26 off
27 7a-7p
28 off
29 7a-7p
30 7a-7p
16 shifts, 156 hours (picked up about 2 or 3 shifts of those on my own). Average is about 12-14 shifts per month and about 120-140 hours
1 - 2-10
2- 3-11
3 - 1-9
4 - 3-11
5,6,7 off
8 - 8a-4p
9 - 7a-7p
10 7a-7p
11 7P-7A
12, 13, 14, 15 off
16 - 7p-7a
17, 18 off
19 - 8-4
20 2-10
21 - 5p-1a
22 - 11p - 7a
23, 24, 25, 26 off
27 7a-7p
28 off
29 7a-7p
30 7a-7p
16 shifts, 156 hours (picked up about 2 or 3 shifts of those on my own). Average is about 12-14 shifts per month and about 120-140 hours
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Let the flood of PMs commence.
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I think this is highly misleading for people who are not EM physicians. I don't consider days to be off if you are working a single hour in that day. In other words, if you are scheduled to work until 2 am (or even 12 am), then this means you are working on two days... especially since you get home by 3 am and sleep by 3:30-400 am. That doesn't leave a whole day. It means that if you wake up at a good time, then you are groggy the rest of the day... So, I consider it a recovery day, not an "off" day. Recovery days are NOT off days in my book, at least not in the way non-EM folks think. I'm a zombie on my recovery day.
Additionally, on days we *do* work, we often work awkward hours. How often is it that we can't eat dinner with our families? And of course, how many weekends do we get completely off like folks in other lines of work?
This is more relevant for people with spouses and children. When you have to live your life in tandem with others, then it is not really a day off when you go to sleep at 4 am and your sleep pattern is all helter-skelter.
I know this is all well-known that the price we pay for so many days "off" is that we work evenings, weekends, and holidays. But, this is lost on non-EM folks when we boast about having X number of days off in the month. The hours and days we *do* work are often spread out in the most painful possible way, and this is lost on people outside of our field (including non-EM doctors and medical students). Give me thirteen 7am shifts all on workdays, then yeah that would be awesome. But, it's not like that. Nowhere near that. Our schedule is harsh, and this is NOT a lifestyle specialty.
Additionally, on days we *do* work, we often work awkward hours. How often is it that we can't eat dinner with our families? And of course, how many weekends do we get completely off like folks in other lines of work?
This is more relevant for people with spouses and children. When you have to live your life in tandem with others, then it is not really a day off when you go to sleep at 4 am and your sleep pattern is all helter-skelter.
I know this is all well-known that the price we pay for so many days "off" is that we work evenings, weekends, and holidays. But, this is lost on non-EM folks when we boast about having X number of days off in the month. The hours and days we *do* work are often spread out in the most painful possible way, and this is lost on people outside of our field (including non-EM doctors and medical students). Give me thirteen 7am shifts all on workdays, then yeah that would be awesome. But, it's not like that. Nowhere near that. Our schedule is harsh, and this is NOT a lifestyle specialty.
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I don't have any overnight shifts. My latest shift ends at 2 am. An "overnight" ends no earlier than 6 am. Big difference to me and most other emergency docs. 4-6 hours of anchor sleep is huge.
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Yes, partners can do that in my practice. The most sought after are the 6a-2p and 10a-6p shifts. They also pay the least.
my schedule in july is pretty rough. 9 days in row 7-4 for 5. 5p-2a for 4. then 5 additional shifts scattered most of which are overnights with 3 days of admin time. its no holy grail but i couldnt see myself doing anything else in medicine besides cc.
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No wonder EM is so hot these days. Those are some beautiful schedules. Maybe i should do a EM residency hehe
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What sounds good now, probably won't sound so good later in life.
Working mainly nights, weekends gets old if you have a family with a normal schedule.
I don't mind my schedule and it's probably better than most, but pick the field only if you enjoy the actual work.
Working mainly nights, weekends gets old if you have a family with a normal schedule.
I don't mind my schedule and it's probably better than most, but pick the field only if you enjoy the actual work.
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I'm running on about 4h of sleep myself right now, flipping back to days. The night-day flip can be utterly miserable - I tried to sleep later today and couldn't. Sleep hygiene is so important, and the irregularity is harder than it seems, especially as you get older. That, and it's balls-to-the-wall when we're actually in the department.
Anyway, I'm recovering from some serious burnout that made me almost leave medicine altogether, so I slashed my hours big-time. I have a few hobbies now, and life is much better. Still, I develop compassion fatigue when I'm working too much, and that isn't the doctor I want to be. So... less pay, but still pretty damn good.
Here's my June: (FWIW, I generally shoot for 10-12 shifts a month, but as an independent contractor, I have a lot more say over my schedule than an employee, which is also a factor here.)
1: 7a-5p
2: 7a-5p
5: 7a-5p
7: 2p-12p
11: 11a-9p
14: 4p-1a
18: 11a-9p
19: 11a-9p
21: 9a-6p
23: 7p-4a
25: 2p-12a
26: 6p-4a
(That's 2 hospitals, so some 10s and some 9s.) It's also 1 more shift than I'd prefer to work, but if either group gets into a pinch, I will help out.
It's a lot of time off, and my main group has 2 full time nocturnists, and several part timers who pretty much only work nights. (The main group's differential is only if you sign up for mostly nights.) Hence, more day shifts for me, which is really nice. Still, "day" is relative. If you're getting off at midnight, that's only sort of a day shift. Anything past 3 am is "night" in my mind. I also happen to not have children and my husband understands (he's a critical care/cath lab nurse who was a paramedic for over a decade, so he gets it.) Well, I don't have children that I have to raise. I inherited 2 practically grown stepkids and got to pace the hospital floors for the birth of the first grandchild. Lemme tell you, skipping the actual parenting part is awesome. But I digress.)
Also, I don't *have* to work more. My only debt is 2 mortgages (one on a rental property that is under contract to sell), and my main home, with the goal to have that mortgage paid off in less than 5 years. I figure that if I work less, I'm also lowering my malpractice risk, just by the sheer fact that there is less exposure to that risk, because in EM, it's sort of a crapshoot. You never know if that chart you're going to pick up is a grenade. I'm trying to say "no" to things at this point, so I can travel more and redevelop hobbies that got shafted when I was doing a bunch of administrative stuff.
Anyway, I'm recovering from some serious burnout that made me almost leave medicine altogether, so I slashed my hours big-time. I have a few hobbies now, and life is much better. Still, I develop compassion fatigue when I'm working too much, and that isn't the doctor I want to be. So... less pay, but still pretty damn good.
Here's my June: (FWIW, I generally shoot for 10-12 shifts a month, but as an independent contractor, I have a lot more say over my schedule than an employee, which is also a factor here.)
1: 7a-5p
2: 7a-5p
5: 7a-5p
7: 2p-12p
11: 11a-9p
14: 4p-1a
18: 11a-9p
19: 11a-9p
21: 9a-6p
23: 7p-4a
25: 2p-12a
26: 6p-4a
(That's 2 hospitals, so some 10s and some 9s.) It's also 1 more shift than I'd prefer to work, but if either group gets into a pinch, I will help out.
It's a lot of time off, and my main group has 2 full time nocturnists, and several part timers who pretty much only work nights. (The main group's differential is only if you sign up for mostly nights.) Hence, more day shifts for me, which is really nice. Still, "day" is relative. If you're getting off at midnight, that's only sort of a day shift. Anything past 3 am is "night" in my mind. I also happen to not have children and my husband understands (he's a critical care/cath lab nurse who was a paramedic for over a decade, so he gets it.) Well, I don't have children that I have to raise. I inherited 2 practically grown stepkids and got to pace the hospital floors for the birth of the first grandchild. Lemme tell you, skipping the actual parenting part is awesome. But I digress.)
Also, I don't *have* to work more. My only debt is 2 mortgages (one on a rental property that is under contract to sell), and my main home, with the goal to have that mortgage paid off in less than 5 years. I figure that if I work less, I'm also lowering my malpractice risk, just by the sheer fact that there is less exposure to that risk, because in EM, it's sort of a crapshoot. You never know if that chart you're going to pick up is a grenade. I'm trying to say "no" to things at this point, so I can travel more and redevelop hobbies that got shafted when I was doing a bunch of administrative stuff.
its possible to have a happy family life. but there needs to be expectations on all sides (spouse, children and yourself). you will miss school events holidays and weekend trips. You will be tired when everyone is awake and need to sleep when everyone is making noise in your house. As long as these expectations are understood, its very possible to be happy. im be pretty happy right now.
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Yes but that has come from perspective. Keep in mind that if you asked you would find the vast majority of professionals are not happy with their "life and career." Take a look at some of the other boards and see how happy other specialties are, or pharmacists, or dentists. Or check around the internet to see how happy lawyers are. Or accountants. The grass is rarely greener on the other side, and there is a reason it is called "work" not "play."
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In EM, that's 0 overnight shifts.
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Yeah not Quite sure what I was thinking when I posted that, thanks for the catch
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This. It's definitely work, but I'd have to say I'm pretty happy overall as well. Have there been times where I was miserable? Sure. But yeah, at least I'm not a neurosurgeon. Or an OB. Or (gasp) a lawyer. A few days off temper the misery. And honestly, all it takes is one really awesome shift every so often and you're suddenly reassured that yes, you made the right decision. One great catch, one nursemaid's elbow...
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Naive incoming MS-1 here but was hoping I could ask y'all a question as I've been interested in EM for the past few years (yes I'm keeping my options open) - feel free to grill me if you feel it necessary!
Is it advantageous for someone in EM if they're a morning person? As in, habitually waking up at 4am, not because they have to but because they enjoy it. Partially because I've always been a morning person plus the military helped out a bit too. Any answers or criticisms are greatly appreciated, thanks!
Is it advantageous for someone in EM if they're a morning person? As in, habitually waking up at 4am, not because they have to but because they enjoy it. Partially because I've always been a morning person plus the military helped out a bit too. Any answers or criticisms are greatly appreciated, thanks!
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As has been outlined above, the early AM shifts are the most sought after, for everyone not purely chasing $$$.
If you like waking up at 4am and being at work at 5, a surgery residency may be in your future.
most shop's morning ED shifts start at 6 or 7. surgery, anaesthesiology on the other hand wake early.
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Quite the opposite. EM favors night hawks and people who wake up late. On my evening and night shifts I will in fact force myself to wake up as late as possible in order to be well rested.
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You can have all my 6 am shifts for your 8+ am shifts.
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For a small differential, sure
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Anything is possible but it's not very common in my experience to routinely pay people to work your shifts. You don't want to be the guy in your group who always changes the schedule around. If you want to come in and work 10 nights a month, great. If you want to pay partners $500-1000/shift to pick up your nights once in a while, fine. But don't trade your days around every month; every group has "that guy", we all know who they are, and it's annoying.
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June:
15th 0800-1800
16th backup
18th 0600-1600
19th 0600-1600
21st 1700-0300
27th 2100-0700
28th 2200-0730
So, yes, six shifts. Plus ~32 hours/mo in-office for research administration responsibilities, another ~20 hours/mo in meetings, clinical content development, and education.
It's possible to escape the grind if properly motivated.
15th 0800-1800
16th backup
18th 0600-1600
19th 0600-1600
21st 1700-0300
27th 2100-0700
28th 2200-0730
So, yes, six shifts. Plus ~32 hours/mo in-office for research administration responsibilities, another ~20 hours/mo in meetings, clinical content development, and education.
It's possible to escape the grind if properly motivated.
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It's definitely better to do it as a system than individually. One of the upsides of a small democratic group. You get to run it the way you collectively want to run it.
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Just thought it was cool that you were the creator of mdapplicants.
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Yes or always asking for coverage. So annoying. Once in awhile of course. But multiple times a month? How do people not have self-awareness and realize they are way outside the mean?
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You know, I actually don't mind being off when other people are working.
The gym is way less crowded, I can get stuff done at the bank, post office/ bike shop etc. Plus, my wife works part time, so I'm off with her at least 2 weekdays per week....
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The gym is way less crowded, I can get stuff done at the bank, post office/ bike shop etc. Plus, my wife works part time, so I'm off with her at least 2 weekdays per week....
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Are you married +/- have kids?
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I think a full time EM schedule is great and the benefits is greater than the sacrifices.
Yeah I work odd hours, weekends, holidays, flip and flop.
But I get to go shopping on the weekdays when its not crowded, go to any child big events during school, drop my kids off at school and pick up 75% of the time, take vacation when I want to, sleep in all the time, less traffic
I wouldn't trade an EM schedule for any 9-5 job and fight traffic all the time.
Now that I am locums, I avg 10 dys a month and work when I want. I took a 2 wk vacation and only worked 8 dys last month.
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My wife/family is just as happy with me doing EM and working 12 shifts/month than if I worked in most other fields of medicine. My wife wasnt any happier or frustrated when I was on EM as a resident or when I was off service.
Will your family always be happy with your schedule? No. But they wouldnt always be hppy no matter what you do. Its what you do with your free time that makes the difference.
Also, if going balls to the wall in a busy place full time and working nights is making you tons of money but ruining your personal life, EM offers a ton of flexibility. You can only work part time doing locums shifts at sleepy places and make more than a primary care doc. Just because you can make 500k a year in EM doesnt mean you have to make that much. Find a job that fits you and your families happiness needs as much as they fit the financial needs.
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If you're making less than half the money doing urgent care, you'd need to work so many more urgent care shifts that it would make your schedule worse.
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A better strategy would be to work some of your shifts in a sleepy ED. Sometimes, if they are understaffed, the locums rate is quite good, and it'd be easy work. I'd do that over Urgent Care, which just isn't going to pay well, and is actually pretty busy (albeit less stressful than working in a busy ED obviously).
There are ED's where you can make $200 an hour, work a 12 hour night shift, and see 6 people and sleep half the night. Will you get a contract to be staff there at that rate? Probably not. But when they don't have coverage, as many of these small EDs don't, they'll have to pay locums rates. As a locums ED doc, you could work at 6 different hospitals if you want. You could work only days. Only nights. Only weekdays. You are in charge of what you are willing to do.
There are ED's where you can make $200 an hour, work a 12 hour night shift, and see 6 people and sleep half the night. Will you get a contract to be staff there at that rate? Probably not. But when they don't have coverage, as many of these small EDs don't, they'll have to pay locums rates. As a locums ED doc, you could work at 6 different hospitals if you want. You could work only days. Only nights. Only weekdays. You are in charge of what you are willing to do.
2nd. There's no money in picking up urgent care shifts. You can say money doesn't matter but time does. If it takes 3-4 UC shifts to equal financially one ED shift, that's a pretty bad trade that kills a lot of off days.
As far as the schedule with a family, I really like it. I'm married with 4 kids ages 3-11. I work 13-14 eights a month so there's lots of time off and I can still have a life on the days I do work. As stated above I really like being off on the weekdays because I can get so much done without the crowds. Having a spouse who doesn't work outside the home makes our erratic schedule work better for our family as well (I think it would be challenging to have our schedule and be married to someone with a 9-5 job).
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This! This is what I am experiencing now.
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honestly, as someone who also favors time with family over making money in EM, I have to say it's probably not worth it. Being perfectly honest with myself, I wouldn't choose EM again if I had to do it all over again. I started residency believing I couldn't see myself doing anything else. Now that's all I think about. I don't think I've ever expressed this outwardly before.
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My feeling is that: if you were single and had no family commitments in the area, then EM schedule is pretty good. I'd love to have off days during the weekdays in order to go to the bank or post office.
On the other hand, if you are married to someone with a 9-5, and without kids, then this places a strain on the relationship. Especially if you are like me and need 2 days to fully recover from an EM shift and am otherwise walking around like a zombie in the house.
BUT, don't take my word for it, since I've numerous times on this board expressed that I wouldn't have gone into medicine to begin with. My burn out levels were off the charts in residency and my happiness is inversely proportional to my EM shifts. ALSO, because I am now actively working towards another career, this leaves very little time for the significant other--which creates a lot of strain on the marriage. So, maybe it wouldn't be bad if I was *just* doing EM. I don't know. But certainly, the abnormal of hours of my EM schedule *does* create a strain.
Thank God my wife is very understanding, but I know she feels it when she has to go to so many couples functions without me... due to the lack of weekends off regularly.
ALSO, I want to point out that the REAL choice in EM is not between morning and night shifts. Morning shifts are going to be about 20-30% of your overall shifts. In reality, the choice is between evening and night shifts. Both suck. Evening shifts take a piece of my soul away each time I work them. Night shifts are better but they then throw my entire sleep schedule and life routine out of whack. So, pick your poison.
I think more medical students should know this. I think most think that you will work "your fair share of night shifts and I'm cool with that," but in reality it is the reverse of what they think the split is. It's not 30% overnight shifts... it's 30% morning shifts, and the rest evenings and nights.
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Or have a self-employed spouse who can schedule flexibly.*
An ER Doc + a 9-5'er do not mix well.
*I should clarify that my wife runs her own business which has flexible hours and I have an extremely accommodating scheduler. So my situation is about as typical as other posters' no overnight schedules.
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Curious,
seems to be consistent that most ER doc work 10 or 12 shifts / month.
During your hire, does the hospital lay out a # of shifts you have to work?
If not, do you choose freely (obv with the restriction of set-times)?
Some docs take on more shifts (up to 16) to reserve only 8hr shifts or to maximize their income.
Are there docs that take on less shift (<8shifts/months) to make time for family/life? (Those who do not mind the paycut).
Or perhaps, as your body gives up to the rigor of the erratic schedule, can you cut down shifts/week?
I'm a bit confused on the inconsistency of the term "flexible"
- some claim to choose whatever shfits
- some claim to say the complete opposite = rare to get good times.
Those who have decent schedules, is there something unique about your credential/area/hospital/etc?
seems to be consistent that most ER doc work 10 or 12 shifts / month.
During your hire, does the hospital lay out a # of shifts you have to work?
If not, do you choose freely (obv with the restriction of set-times)?
Some docs take on more shifts (up to 16) to reserve only 8hr shifts or to maximize their income.
Are there docs that take on less shift (<8shifts/months) to make time for family/life? (Those who do not mind the paycut).
Or perhaps, as your body gives up to the rigor of the erratic schedule, can you cut down shifts/week?
I'm a bit confused on the inconsistency of the term "flexible"
- some claim to choose whatever shfits
- some claim to say the complete opposite = rare to get good times.
Those who have decent schedules, is there something unique about your credential/area/hospital/etc?
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Based on what I've seen and lived, this is false. Too low.
In my experience, the number of shifts "most" EPs work is (The amount of shifts they want to work, and can work, without burning out) + 2
per month.
You can usually make just as much money doing telehealth as working in an UC. Sometimes more...
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Answering your questions one at a time:
During your hire, does the hospital lay out a # of shifts you have to work?
- This can vary, but in general: yes. You typically sign up for x number of shifts per month and your salary is based on that number. Locums works completely differently. Locums companies/hospitals hiring locums docs will frequently ask for a minimum number of shifts per month which you will agree to work. If you are clever, you will not agree to said minimum.
Are there docs that take on less shift (<8shifts/months) to make time for family/life? (Those who do not mind the paycut).
- Yes
Or perhaps, as your body gives up to the rigor of the erratic schedule, can you cut down shifts/week?
- Yes
I'm a bit confused on the inconsistency of the term "flexible"
some claim to choose whatever shfits
some claim to say the complete opposite = rare to get good times.
- Not entirely sure what you're asking. People that work locums enjoy flexibility in that it allows them to dictate their schedule. E.g. they can pick what specific shifts they are or are not willing to work. The downside is that they are not guaranteed work. If the hospital hires a full time doc to work there, then the locums doc may no longer be needed and won't be offered shifts and won't get paid.
People who are W2 employees generally do not get to dictate their schedule. They will work a mix of days, evenings, nights, weekends, holidays etc etc etc. There remains some inherent flexibility in EM for those people too in that working on those random days/nights means that you are not always working when the average person is. You can do things during a random weekday pretty easily. You can also request time off very easily and still work your required shift allocation (e.g. if I'm scheduled to work 12 days a month and I want to take a vacation, I can simply request that I not be scheduled any shifts for a set 1-2 week period. This is easy to do, provided you give 2-3 months notice, but will result in busier work weeks when I'm back as I now need to work those 12 days in a 2-3 week period instead of the usual 4.)
Those who have decent schedules, is there something unique about your credential/area/hospital/etc?
- Define "decent." I think my schedule is fair. See my previous paragraph for what is expected of an emergency physician in terms of scheduling. Within those confines, I have a fair schedule.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2009
- Messages
- 809
- Reaction score
- 216
Appreciate the schedule posts. Gives me a much better idea of the reality of being in EM after doing a rotation.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 744
- Reaction score
- 332
Here's my schedule for Aug:
1: swing 10 hr
2: swing 10 hr
15: mid day 12 hr
16: swing 10 hr
18: swing 10 hr
19: overnight 10 hr
23: morning 12 hr
24: morning 12 hr
25: swing 10 hr
28: swing 10 hr
29: swing 10 hr
this is a little lighter than normal, because of summer vacation.
I work, my wife doesn't. that makes it easier to care for our 2 kids. The "non-9-5" schedule is good for kids when theyre little and not in school. However, once they get old enough and school starts, you see your kids less. But you have more free time mid week to yourself. This is good (time away from kids ;D) and bad (time away from kids).
Right now I feel blessed, as this schedule is much nicer than my last job in EM!
1: swing 10 hr
2: swing 10 hr
15: mid day 12 hr
16: swing 10 hr
18: swing 10 hr
19: overnight 10 hr
23: morning 12 hr
24: morning 12 hr
25: swing 10 hr
28: swing 10 hr
29: swing 10 hr
this is a little lighter than normal, because of summer vacation.
I work, my wife doesn't. that makes it easier to care for our 2 kids. The "non-9-5" schedule is good for kids when theyre little and not in school. However, once they get old enough and school starts, you see your kids less. But you have more free time mid week to yourself. This is good (time away from kids ;D) and bad (time away from kids).
Right now I feel blessed, as this schedule is much nicer than my last job in EM!
- Joined
- May 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,244
- Reaction score
- 2,855
Much of this depends on your practice model and type. I work about 100 hours a month. I’m flexible and have never worked more than I wanted. Frankly, if I put a shift up for someone it’s typcially gone in under 2 hours except weekend overnights.
Weekday nights gone! Maybe my job is a unicorn. Of course it’s a true sdg so that helps.
Weekday nights gone! Maybe my job is a unicorn. Of course it’s a true sdg so that helps.
