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EM/IM and EM/Peds harder to get into than EM alone?

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by trkd, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. trkd

    10+ Year Member

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    Just curious to know if it is harder or easier to get into the combo programs. I know there are less spots but do they generally take people with higher boards scores, etc? I have looked around but I can't seem to find out how competitive these programs are.

    In general, the order of competitiveness seems to be:

    1. EM
    2. Peds
    3. IM

    Where do the combo programs come in? Any thoughts? :confused:
     
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  3. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    Go to the 2005 NRMP match stats, you can find them at www.scutwork.com. In brief em/im filled, the em/peds program did not. The numbers for each are so small that it is difficult to compare them to EM. I would note that I've retrained a bunch of FP, IM and Peds grads, so they are now double boarded. They are all practicing EM exclusively. Why do it?

    bkn PD
     
  4. trkd

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    I have looked at the match stats but have yet to look at scutwork. I have also looked at the websites for all of the combo programs. I saw that em/peds did not fill and also saw on frieda that the average number of PGY1 interviews was 6. But I didn't really understand if this was because they aimed too high with the candidates they interviewed or because people don't want to do the long programs.

    I must admit, my line of reasoning for considering em/peds (more so than em/im) is this... I am a US-IMG going to school in Sydney, Australia. Great school :thumbup: in a great city :thumbup: which has provided me with the best experience of my life :thumbup: BUT :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: not that great for getting back into EM programs. As you may know, only 47 US-IMGs matched to PGY1 programs in 2004 (which I suspect probably had spectacular 260+ on their boards vs my average Step 1).

    I am passsionate about doing EM and not settling for a career doing FP or IM (which I could get into easier). If it takes a few extra years and takes care of the fellowship as well, than I am willing to submit to that.

    All that said, I have thought about peds EM and don't think it would hurt at all to have done the combo program and come out doing peds EM in the end. Ideally though, I would want to match EM and decide that around fellowship time.

    At the end of the day, I will have several US EM letters and, due to better circumstances, probably a better Step 2 score BUT still may not be enough to get the interview. It's all about facing reality and working with what you have. ;)
     
  5. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    I imagine the latter. bkn
     
  6. trkd

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    Interesting. I would have thought there would be more interest in it. Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  7. Mary Jane Watson

    Mary Jane Watson Senior Member
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    According to the ABEM, you cannot be board-certified in pediatric emergency medicine unless you do a fellowship. Doing a combo program will make you BE in EM and peds, not peds EM. Most places you practice peds EM are academic and they are looking for BC/BE in peds EM, so the fellowship is required. I thought about doing EM/Peds as well, but I didn't want to have to do a 5 year program + a fellowship to be boarded in peds EM. Before January 1999, the combo peeps used to be able to sit for the boards, but now you must have completed a fellowship. :luck: MJ
     
  8. CS_22

    CS_22 Senior Member
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    With all due respect, and as an individual who is looking HIGHLY at EM/Peds, I would hope you wouldn't apply for the very few EM/Peds positions because you feel its an easier way to go. Don't mean to ride you on it, just feel that there really isn't that much room as it is anyway.

    CS
     
  9. trkd

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    Well it seems I misunderstood all along. I am interested in EM and peds EM. Not BC in peds to be honest with you. It seems EM/Peds residency won't get me to peds EM so it is not really worth it for me.

    So the spot is all yours. I don't suck THAT bad.

    Thanks for the info Mary Jane Watson!
     
  10. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    I don't think that a person certified as Peds EM is as qualified as one who is double boarded. I'm would be very surprised if a peds university hospital wouldn't look at a double certifed doc. In addition the double boarded guy can see adult EM patients.

    BKN
     
  11. Zweihander

    Zweihander Billygoat Gruff
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    I've been told that pediatric emergency doctors are in high demand because regular ED docs don't have the best training or experience when it comes to dealing with children in the ER. Would you say that specializing in emergency and then doing a fellowship in emergency peds is redundant/unnecessary for someone interested in being a dedicated ER physician?

    thanks
     
  12. BKN

    BKN Senior Member
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    IMnotHO, those who say this are Ped EM guys trying to convince the mothers of America to bypass the General Hospitals and come to the Peds hospital. Something that doesn't seem to happen much.

    Yes, I would. I also think you'll cut your income if your are EM trained and then go to Peds EM. I think that the Peds to Peds EM people increase theirs.

    Incidentally, I've trained 2 pediatricians, 3-5 internists, and >10 F.P.s. They are all practicing EM exclusively. I don't think fellowships or double boarding adds much. We are valuable because we'll see anybody around the clock. Academic departments do need at least one EMS type, one Peds type, one research guy, one toxicologist etc. The community hospitals don't care. So if you do a fellowship, do it for love of the subject.
     
  13. trkd

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    I've been trying to minimize ALL income with 10 years of college and counting. I am always looking for new ways to minimize income. :laugh: Sign me up!
     
  14. bubbles!

    bubbles! Junior Member
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    Just to clarify the stats about the EM/Peds programs not "filling" last year. At one of the combined programs I interviewed at they stated that there is no pressure to fill those spots so they only rank the candidates they really want in the program. Last year, the p.d. mentioned that they made the choice to only rank one applicant. So they didn't "fill" on purpose, not due to lack of interest. Of course this could be spin, but I've met lots of strong and committed peds/EM applicants on the trail, it's very difficult for me to believe that those programs didn't fill due to lack of interest. There are only six total slots after all.
     
  15. DrMom

    DrMom Official Mom of SDN
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    If you notice, the thread is from 2005 so the didn't-fill statistics were from 2004.
     

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