EM is not a lifestyle specialty

[Braves123]

Lifestyle specialty is probably more like:

Work 8-4p on MWF, with 1 hour lunch from 12-1.
Work 8-12p on Tuesday.

Off on Thursday, Sat, Sunday.

THAT'S a lifestyle specialty. That's what derm and orthodontists do while still hitting 300-400K.

Not - I have to work 10 days in a row so I can have a 6 day weekend.... And in those 10 days, I may have to do a double back once between a night shift and into an afternoon shift. That's not a lifestyle specialty. That's brutal work just so I can make it to a string of days off. I don't see what's so "lifestyle" about working 8-4p, 8-4p, 8-4p, then 4-12a, 4-12a, 4-12a then coming back for a 8-4p then 4-12a then 12a-8a, then back for a 4p-12a.

That's frickin' brutal.

EM has the variability and the option to move your shifts around so you can take a longer break here and there, but it's not easy.

First of all that's probably not what derms do....and they have to build their practice and take the risks of the business.

and your schedule is not bad at all...unless your doing 8AM-4AM (which is not a standard shift at any residencies I know), your doing pretty standard days. 4-12a is not bad at all either, a bit busier to start with but calms down near the end. Get some zolpidem and its all good. beats working 21 days of 7am-7pm for a 2 day vacation which I had to do on medicine during med school. I'm not saying I worked anywhere near as hard, but it gave me a glimpse of medicine folk's life. 6 days on one day off is kinda the standard, compare to that we have it pretty damn good. I think the definition of a lifestyle specialty is anything with better hours than general internal medicine:
Rads/RadONC, EM, Gas, Derm, Ophto, Path, Pysch ?ENT. If for you money is a significant part of your lifestyle, you can knock Path and Pysch off

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[JacobMcCandles]

I like having the ability to work extra shifts if you want and I also love having a weekday off thrown in there as I am much more productive during a weekday off rather than a weekend day off. The hours make it sound like a lifestyle specialty but when you have to work those hours may not be considered consistent with a lifestyle specialty by some people but overall, I think it's pretty great.

If you made me be an ophtho guy from 8a-3p 4 days a week, I'd be miserable at work and at home.

 

[donkeykong1]

i still think EM wins most specialty wars when it comes to hours worked, pay, variety of work day, and flexibility. it's really damn tough to have your own issue of any sort when you work every weekday 8-4 - try having an injury and needing to do PT, and working that schedule. it's absolutely impossible.

if you know from day 1 that family life and kids are #1 in your life and you want to be at ever t-ball game and piano recital and see all of the firsts every one of your kids have, AND see your spouse for hours a day... you probably shouldn't be a physician. i'm not trying to be callous (and yes i'm a woman, and a rather bleeding heart/great patient satisfaction sort of softie, so don't even go there!) -- but medicine is a PROFESSION. it cuts both ways sometimes.

and i'll say it again - given the medicine is a PROFESSION, i think EM has a nice balance of factors. i agree w/ most of what Ectopic said. you get to be a "real" doctor, get paid well, stay in tune w/ the real world (whether that's good or bad sometimes).... not a bad gig imho. despite its warts, and the fact that i was damn cranky on Sunday after having a rough Saturday, there's not another specialty i'd pick over EM.

well said. I think that kind of sums things up pretty nicely.

 

[GeneralVeers]

EM absolutely is a lifestyle speciality. I can take 10 days vacation every month if I want. In June/July I am linking my blocks to take 3 weeks off for a European cruise. I don't have to worry about my practice being covered. I simply leave, enjoy myself without worry and come back and pick up where I left off. I don't think even Derm allows this.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

EM absolutely is a lifestyle speciality. I can take 10 days vacation every month if I want. In June/July I am linking my blocks to take 3 weeks off for a European cruise. I don't have to worry about my practice being covered. I simply leave, enjoy myself without worry and come back and pick up where I left off. I don't think even Derm allows this.

Amen brother.

Weekends, a few holidays, evenings, and some night shifts....I think SDN easily forgets the 'bigger picture'. The average american works 8-5: Monday-Friday and makes 37K per year. Honestly, I am not sure how 'average' that is in this economy any more...

I liked how other people mentioned that 'lifestyle' went out the window with the MD. With the other options out there, EM is still a pretty well rounded package.

 

[KiloAxe]

In my group - there are 7 or so full time ER docs and about 7 part time. So, we are expected to work at least 4-5 weekend days a month... that means I only get 1 true full weekend off a month (this is what we call a "golden" weekend). Not to mention I have to staff half the holidays - I can't have NYE off if I have Christmas off.



Let me correct your error - there's only 28 days in a 4 week work period. So, you work 18, you're off 10 not 12. And 18 is not full, full time. 20 is. So with 20, you're off 8 days. Consider you have 2-3 night shifts going into a day off - you really have 5-6 "true" days off in a month.

I havent heard of any attending working 'full time ' at 20 shifts a month, thats what most residency programs are working. The most I've heard right out of residency is 17/month, with most around 15-16, and these are 8 hour shifts. The staff here work 1 weekend every 3-4 weeks, and I can't imagine an attending job where you are expected to work 4-5 out of 8 weekend days a month. I hope they are paying you bank!

 

[Hamhock]

EM absolutely is a lifestyle speciality. I can take 10 days vacation every month if I want. In June/July I am linking my blocks to take 3 weeks off for a European cruise. I don't have to worry about my practice being covered. I simply leave, enjoy myself without worry and come back and pick up where I left off. I don't think even Derm allows this.

I think this is what it comes down to...and why there are such different perspectives.

Perhaps, unlike many other fields. EM is incredibly variable in terms of lifestyle...and this variance is well within one standard deviation.

Unlike many specialties, you can easily make EM the best lifestyle specialty or one of the worst.

HH

 

[RafaTech]

Take a look at this survey. EM physicians overall have it pretty good compared to most specialties.

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/lifestyle/2012/public

 

[Hercules]

Good discussion with lots of different viewpoints. I think if you talk to enough people in EM you will find that younger EM docs without children find our field to be much more lifestyle friendly than those of us with a spouse and children. I know I underestimated how much my schedule would impact my family. I looked at as many of you who focused on the hours worked and days off. The problem is the rest of the world functions on a M-F 9-5 schedule. You will miss more weddings, parties, religious ceremonies, dinners, bedtimes, and other events than you realize. Once your children are in school your weekends and evenings become much more important to you.

I love our field and would definitely do it again, but it's important to enter it with eyes wide open and the understanding that your lifestyle needs in your 30s, 40s, and 50s will likely be different that those of your 20s when many of us pick our specialty.

 

[LastMinEMROLQs]

Good discussion with lots of different viewpoints. I think if you talk to enough people in EM you will find that younger EM docs without children find our field to be much more lifestyle friendly than those of us with a spouse and children. I know I underestimated how much my schedule would impact my family. I looked at as many of you who focused on the hours worked and days off. The problem is the rest of the world functions on a M-F 9-5 schedule. You will miss more weddings, parties, religious ceremonies, dinners, bedtimes, and other events than you realize. Once your children are in school your weekends and evenings become much more important to you.

I love our field and would definitely do it again, but it's important to enter it with eyes wide open and the understanding that your lifestyle needs in your 30s, 40s, and 50s will likely be different that those of your 20s when many of us pick our specialty.

one of the best answers to this thread

 

[pinipig523]

I dunno, brother pig - sounds like a raw deal to me. You sure you want this gig ?

Yeah, I wanted this job. It's a fantastic job... I can live pretty close to there and still be in prime location (close to the city, great family area, excellent schools). It's more of me doing it to myself than the job. I'm sure I'll end up working less weekends, but I'm prepping myself for similar-to-residency hours/schedule just so I don't have any misconstrued expectations (keep expectations low, I say to myself).

I don't mind it, like I said - I love my job. But I'm not working an hour over 160.

 

[pinipig523]

Good discussion with lots of different viewpoints. I think if you talk to enough people in EM you will find that younger EM docs without children find our field to be much more lifestyle friendly than those of us with a spouse and children. I know I underestimated how much my schedule would impact my family. I looked at as many of you who focused on the hours worked and days off. The problem is the rest of the world functions on a M-F 9-5 schedule. You will miss more weddings, parties, religious ceremonies, dinners, bedtimes, and other events than you realize. Once your children are in school your weekends and evenings become much more important to you.

I love our field and would definitely do it again, but it's important to enter it with eyes wide open and the understanding that your lifestyle needs in your 30s, 40s, and 50s will likely be different that those of your 20s when many of us pick our specialty.

Yes, this is a good post.

Your priorities change and what may have been important to you as a late 20 year old will not be the same as when you turn 50.

First of all that's probably not what derms do....and they have to build their practice and take the risks of the business.

and your schedule is not bad at all...unless your doing 8AM-4AM (which is not a standard shift at any residencies I know), your doing pretty standard days. 4-12a is not bad at all either, a bit busier to start with but calms down near the end. Get some zolpidem and its all good. beats working 21 days of 7am-7pm for a 2 day vacation which I had to do on medicine during med school. I'm not saying I worked anywhere near as hard, but it gave me a glimpse of medicine folk's life. 6 days on one day off is kinda the standard, compare to that we have it pretty damn good. I think the definition of a lifestyle specialty is anything with better hours than general internal medicine:
Rads/RadONC, EM, Gas, Derm, Ophto, Path, Pysch ?ENT. If for you money is a significant part of your lifestyle, you can knock Path and Pysch off

That is what my dermatologist does and that is what my dermatologist friend does as well. And I have been on other services, lest you forget that I am a resident, including optho/burn/trauma/peds/medicine/stepdown. Medicine is not a schedule I would want, no way for sure... that's a tougher schedule in my eyes. I would not want to be a surgeon on call either - especially OB. FP - long days and not enough reimbursement, probably not for me either.

I think the ones I would consider to have better schedules than EM are probably the sub specialists like optho, derm, etc. Although I've seen some long optho hours as well (but that's in residency).

I havent heard of any attending working 'full time ' at 20 shifts a month, thats what most residency programs are working. The most I've heard right out of residency is 17/month, with most around 15-16, and these are 8 hour shifts. The staff here work 1 weekend every 3-4 weeks, and I can't imagine an attending job where you are expected to work 4-5 out of 8 weekend days a month. I hope they are paying you bank!

Like I said, my choice. They only require 120h/mo as full time but I want to work hard for 5 years or so then scale back. I'm only 29, I should be able to handle it. I know what to expect and that's most important.

 

[MatchedEM]

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[GeneralVeers]

Good discussion with lots of different viewpoints. I think if you talk to enough people in EM you will find that younger EM docs without children find our field to be much more lifestyle friendly than those of us with a spouse and children. I know I underestimated how much my schedule would impact my family. I looked at as many of you who focused on the hours worked and days off. The problem is the rest of the world functions on a M-F 9-5 schedule. You will miss more weddings, parties, religious ceremonies, dinners, bedtimes, and other events than you realize. Once your children are in school your weekends and evenings become much more important to you.

I love our field and would definitely do it again, but it's important to enter it with eyes wide open and the understanding that your lifestyle needs in your 30s, 40s, and 50s will likely be different that those of your 20s when many of us pick our specialty.

You just made the best case I've ever heard for never having children!

 

[EctopicFetus]

Again, I think it varies. EM would be more a lifestyle "specialty" if I was working 110-120 hours a month. This is true for any field. IMO full time is 140-ish. I love my job, I would pick it again but like Hercules said missing numerous events, weekends etc makes it hard.

While as someone pointed out you wont imss weddings you want to go to. Things like baseball practice are a given. I volunteered to coach my kids T ball team which is a minor time commitment given it is t ball but I couldnt even do that cause of my schedule. Perhaps things would be better but we tend to get our schedule like 2 weeks before the next month starts which blows.

I think for a money/life balance EM cant be beat but working a M-F 9-5 and half day friday with nights and weekends off with no call also doesnt sound half bad.

Again I would pick this specialty 100/100 times but some of the people on here cant seem to see any downside or just blow it off like its nothing. I would simply say as you get older your priorities change.

 

[spitfire5454]

While not the ultimate lifestyle specialty, I find it hard to beat. I work 12 12s a month which averages me a 4 days off a week. With over 300k salary. No overhead. The ability to increase compensation at will by picking up more shifts. The ability to decrease work load as I get older by decreasing shifts. Rearrange shifts to fit vacation so I still hit my monthly shift quota thus not sacrificing any income. The price I pay for this is that I have to work some nights and some weekends. I really don't mind though, with a wife and kid, life is pretty busy. in my previous life, When I worked m-f, sure, I had my weekends, but they were so busy I hardly enjoyed them. I can't tell you how therapeutic I find a random Monday or Tuesday off where I have nothing to do, wife is at work and the kids are at daycare. I find the key is keeping the hours reasonable. It is very easy to look at that new car and say "well that's just picking up another shift a month". Before you know it, your working 15-16 12s and hating life. I have yet to find a better bang for the buck speciality.

My hospitalist buddies make a little under what I do, but they work 2 weeks on 1 week off, and 24hr call every other day while on. That's almost twice as many hours I work and for less pay. For me It's all about where your reference point is.

 

[CommunityED]

Full time for me is 125 hours/ month in 8 and 9 hour shift (15/mo). I can't think of any job where you work so little and make the kind of money we do. Granted, its hard work while I'm there, but when I'm off I'm truly off as I work in a community shop with no teaching responsibility.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Full time for me is 125 hours/ month in 8 and 9 hour shift (15/mo). I can't think of any job where you work so little and make the kind of money we do. Granted, its hard work while I'm there, but when I'm off I'm truly off as I work in a community shop with no teaching responsibility.

Full time for us is 108 hours to get benefits. We add $5/hour for all hours over 120 to reward the people who work more.

 

[namethatsmell]

Full time for us is 108 hours to get benefits.

Pure awesome.

 

[medicsb]

MS-II here.

I'm curious as to why there isn't increasing flexibility put in place for senior physician to allow them to work more shifts of their desire? I find it kind of baffling that a physician who has been practicing at the same place for decades can't have precedent over others less experienced. Would anyone be willing to share some insight as to why this isn't the case?

Thank you.

 

[tkim]

MS-II here.

I'm curious as to why there isn't increasing flexibility put in place for senior physician to allow them to work more shifts of their desire? I find it kind of baffling that a physician who has been practicing at the same place for decades can't have precedent over others less experienced. Would anyone be willing to share some insight as to why this isn't the case?

Thank you.

Do you, as a new graduate, want to do all the nights, weekends, and holidays in a grey-heavy shop? Do you think you could attract anyone to work there with such a setup?

 

[Arcan57]

MS-II here.

I'm curious as to why there isn't increasing flexibility put in place for senior physician to allow them to work more shifts of their desire? I find it kind of baffling that a physician who has been practicing at the same place for decades can't have precedent over others less experienced. Would anyone be willing to share some insight as to why this isn't the case?

Thank you.

New grads are ephemereal. In general, it's expected they will move around frequently (few docs stay 3 years in their first job). One of the major CMG even offers to let you set your own schedule the first year out.

The doc that's been working there 8 years and has ties to the community and kids in school that is far more likely to put up with a worse schedule because they don't want to disrupt their lives. By the time kids are off to college, you are old enough that you aren't going to be super-attractive to groups (unless you've made a name for yourself in academics or administration) who could hire someone 15 years younger and not have to worry about them deciding to cut down on night shifts due to fatigue.

 

[medicsb]

I wasn't trying to suggest that a new grad should do all nights, weekends, and holidays, which I do not think would be fair. But I certainly do not think it would not be unreasonable to let some of the most senior physicians (those with, say, 20+ years on the job) be allowed to work fewer nights and weekends.

Considering that new grads move around a lot, I see how it could be difficult to accommodate all senior physicians.

 

[docB]

I wasn't trying to suggest that a new grad should do all nights, weekends, and holidays, which I do not think would be fair. But I certainly do not think it would not be unreasonable to let some of the most senior physicians (those with, say, 20+ years on the job) be allowed to work fewer nights and weekends.

Considering that new grads move around a lot, I see how it could be difficult to accommodate all senior physicians.

One thing that's true about shifts is that they are a zero sum game. Meaning that there are a certain number that have to get filled and if someone doesn't work them someone else has to.

There are a lot of groups that allow the old timers to work fewer undesirable shifts but that makes those groups less attractive to new comers.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Docs over 50 don't work night shifts at my grouop (unless they want to).

Also the "make your own schedule" thing is accurate, however if someone starts, and says they only want to work day shifts and no-weekends, it demonstrates a lack of team-play, and likely they won't make it past their 1 year trial period. It's kind of a test. We'll let you do it, but it may reflect badly on you if you take advantage of it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

my group pays a healthy night dif so people dont have to work nights unless they want to. We are actully oversubscribed on nights and some of the folks who want to work nights have to work day or evening shifts to get their hours.

Our policy is that after 20 years we guarantee no nights.. Right now most months our partners dont work nights unless by choice. i think its a good and fair policy. we are a super stable group with low turnover. In my 3 years we have lost 3 people. All left Emergency medicine. Groups like ours are out there but are hard to find.

We split evenings, weekends and holidays equally. Thats how it should be in a group that wants to nurture the young and not eat and dispose of their young.

 

[residentdoc8]

edited

 

[wobit]

I'm female, married, two kids under 5, and most of one year into EM residency. I couldn't possibly be more junior in the field (so I hope others chime in), but with only a few months in the ED schedule to compare to other fields of medicine that I've rotated through, I feel like I'm a better and more available parent when I'm working in the ED.

Of course I wish I had a wife. Doesn't everyone want someone else to cook and clean? My husband works full time, and we both pitch in on all the chores. Many of the months that I'm not in the ED he has to pick up more of the slack. When I'm in Trauma or the ICU, he does all the shopping and the child-schlepping and nearly all the cooking and cleaning. When I'm in the ED I am able to do many of the household errands and about half the child-schlepping because the odd shift schedules leave me free during daylight hours. If I work a Saturday shift (when my husband can take the kids) it means I'll have a Tuesday off that I can be at the museum with them.
It takes a lot of communication and flexibility, and it's not a traditional division of labor, but they see much more of me and I do more "mom" stuff than the Medicine or FM residents. My residency does 8 hour shifts, which means that no matter whether I'm on days, evenings, or nights, I get to see my kids for 1 real sit down meal every day. On other rotations, I often see them only to tuck into bed.

If you really want to be a traditional wife and handle most of the domestic engineering, you can't work full time in nearly any field of medicine. FM is mostly primary care, which is long hours unless you are only part-time. Urgent care is an option, but it's borrrrring because all the fun cases triage out.

 

[EctopicFetus]

What are your thoughts on FM and going into urgent care? Sounds like a better lifestyle because of no nights (at most urgent care places), shift work, and maybe it's less pay but a better schedule and less stress. I've struggled between EM and urgent care-- I LOVE EM as a student, but i'm female and single and can work any unlimited amounts of hours without any repercussions on relationships....this will change when i'm out of my 20's, married, popping out kids, and managing a household....is career in EM even conducive to family life as a FEMALE?? Men seem to better handle this sort of "lifestyle" (changing shifts, nights, weekends, holidays, etc. with a wife at home taking care of everything). Sorry to sound sexist...but it is what it is. Any thoughts to this for those who are out and have been practicing for a number of years?

UC isnt just less pay it is way less pay.. also most of your hours will be in the evenings which for my family is a killer. The women I know just scale back their hours. Most do like 8 -12s a month which still works out to a great salary. If you like EM urgent care all day every day is bound to bore you.

 

[residentdoc8]

edited

 

[zinjanthropus]

I did a lot of UC moonlighting my 3rd year of residency - in a really nice UC clinic - but, wow, I could NOT do that for a living - it's like working fast track in the ED all the time..more than a few shifts of that a month and you just go crazy...not fun and 3.5 - 4/hour....i would take 3 shifts of week of sickies at any time of day or weekends or holidays over UC hands down

 

[Apollyon]

I did a lot of UC moonlighting my 3rd year of residency - in a really nice UC clinic - but, wow, I could NOT do that for a living - it's like working fast track in the ED all the time..more than a few shifts of that a month and you just go crazy...not fun and 3.5 - 4/hour....i would take 3 shifts of week of sickies at any time of day or weekends or holidays over UC hands down

From one of our FM friends:

 

[la gringa]

i did UC part-time while getting over an injury... pay was not great but better than nothing. anyone sick you had to send out. often saw 5-6 pts/hr... argh. i agree w/ those above - i'd rather see 2+ even remotely sick pph than try to run the worried well through!

 

[wobit]

...but how often do you see your husband with alternating work schedules and how is your relationship holding up?

Residency is hell on relationships. Having two very young children in the house is hell on relationships. Both of those are true no matter what field I'm in. The healthiest part of my relationship with my husband right now is that we can look at each other and say, "we can get through this" and have concrete plans for it to be totally different in just a few short years. Soon enough I'll be able to release him from a career that he does purely for the dollars (no joy). We talk about maybe having more kids after residency, when we can hire out the housework. If he's on board with that, it can't be too bad.
In sum, it's rough but survivable.

Again, as little as I see of him, I feel as though I see more of him than some of the medicine-medicine pairs, or those with kids in other fields. And my prospects for lots of excellent mini vacations get pretty sweet in just 2 more short years.

 

[Lysinee]

How is it not lifestyle if you work twelve 12's in a month? I agree that the times might be a pain, but you aren't on call for 18 days.

 

[residentdoc8]

edited

 

[Hercules]

Residentdoc08, I am an EM physician who works full time in the ED and owns an urgent care that I work a few shifts in as well. If you're considering both UC and EM, I can tell you without a doubt that you should do an EM residency. Residency for EM and FM is the same length and being boarded in EM will give you opportunities that FM will not. You can always cut back on your EM shifts or transition into UC if you choose. With a few exceptions, there is not a ton of money to be made in working an urgent care as a physician. The money is made by owning it and the hours aren't as great as you might think (8a-8p is pretty standard). If you train in EM you will have the option of working in an ED and will be the most qualified physician to work in an urgent care as well. If you train in FM you will be better at primary care but unable to work in the more sought after ED jobs.

 

[Birdstrike]

.

 

[wobit]

I love my kids, I really do, and they are a source of irreplaceable joy in my life. But for a few years, they really do turn all other sources of joy in life to ****. They mess up your sleep, your house, your personal grooming rituals, your diet, **** up all your social plans and grownup past-times. I used to do all kinds of quirky fun extracurricular stuff and now it's pretty much only knitting, because it's portable and I can drop it when I need to jump up and fish a child out of the [fill in the blank].

They're worth it. But go into that time of life with open eyes. It's not at all like the dating phase of couplehood.

This will be true for parenthood no matter what career you have. Unless your spouse is a stay at home saint with rare wrangling skillz.

 

[DreamingTheLive]

So, for those keeping score so far....

1) EM can be absolutely Pro- or Anti-lifestyle depending on your actual life-style, schedule, family situation, expectations, etc. (Perhaps the broadest scope of variability/opinions within a specialty (vs. surgery, IM, derm, PM&R where for the most part the opinions are largely congruent))
2) Kids. Think long and hard.

 

[gutonc]

So, for those keeping score so far....
2) Kids. Think long and hard.

A friend of ours (the original producer of Kojak...now a high school math teacher in upstate NY...in his early 60s with several adult kids from a previous marriage, currently married to a 50-something actress without kids) put it beautifully: "If you have kids, you miss out on a lot of stuff...if you don't have kids, you miss out on a lot of stuff."

What that "stuff" is, you will only discover a posteriori.

 

[Croooz]

fyi, Not a physician but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

Lifestyle has been described to me as time + money. It would seem that y'all have both therefore my non-medical professional opinion is that EM is a lifestyle specialty. A couple EM docs told me that "EM is a lifestyle specialty...but you have to like the lifestyle." I get the impression lifestyle is being defined as 9-5, Mon-Fri, nights, weekends, holidays, birthdays off.

Perhaps if "lifestyle" was defined you guys might come to a consensus.

 

[zinjanthropus]

lifestyle for me means working a limited amount of clinical hours so that it stays fun and rewarding when i do work (about 30 hours a week) but also having the income to enjoy my time off, my family, and other interests/hobbies so that i can return to work as a better doctor every shift

 

[gman33]

lifestyle for me means working a limited amount of clinical hours so that it stays fun and rewarding when i do work (about 30 hours a week) but also having the income to enjoy my time off, my family, and other interests/hobbies so that i can return to work as a better doctor every shift

 

[docB]

fyi, Not a physician but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

Lifestyle has been described to me as time + money. It would seem that y'all have both therefore my non-medical professional opinion is that EM is a lifestyle specialty. A couple EM docs told me that "EM is a lifestyle specialty...but you have to like the lifestyle." I get the impression lifestyle is being defined as 9-5, Mon-Fri, nights, weekends, holidays, birthdays off.

Perhaps if "lifestyle" was defined you guys might come to a consensus.

I have found that the number of hours is not much more important than the regularity of hours. I work a random assortment of shifts. It's pretty disruptive to life with kids and other obligations. I would be able to spend more time doing things with my kids if I worked a regular schedule, even if I worked more hours.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Perhaps if "lifestyle" was defined you guys might come to a consensus.

But of course...

Are you single? Then EM is a lifestyle specialty.

Do you have a family? Then it's not.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

My stance on lifestyle in EM is already above... but for the others mentioning the issues with the kids..

Do you guys ever do many partial shifts?

Those are popular in my group.... We only work 12s.. but some of the guys with the kids in basketball/baseball/dance class/etc... they will often trade out the last 4 hours of their shift.. which tends to be a posh deal as we stop seeing new patients the last 60-90 mins.

I have done these a few times, but since I rarely needs a few hours of my shift covered, I just end up with the extra hours and people are particular on wanting X number of hours so they rather trade than give them up (personally I would rather take them!). A few of the guys with the kids often do several of these trades with each other... there hours remain the same and it helps them get to practice or whatever.

Just wanted to through that out to folks to maybe consider trying in their groups...

 

[DreamingTheLive]

A friend of ours (the original producer of Kojak...now a high school math teacher in upstate NY...in his early 60s with several adult kids from a previous marriage, currently married to a 50-something actress without kids) put it beautifully: "If you have kids, you miss out on a lot of stuff...if you don't have kids, you miss out on a lot of stuff."

What that "stuff" is, you will only discover a posteriori.

Well put. Good thing I like "stuff."

 

[residentdoc8]

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[dotcb]

I moonlit in urgent care during EM residency. A bad day in the ED is better than a good day in urgent care. I can't think of any circumstances that would ever cause me to seek work in that setting again. Shifts were 8a-8p (more like 8-9), bad medicine (read Abx and placebos for URI's), mildly stressful, high volume, and just as much paperwork. If you want to optimize your lifestyle, take high paying shifts, minimize them, only do the ones you want, and titrate to balance income w/ time off/family needs. I practice EM and enjoy it.