EM PD - Ask Me Anything

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Yea I spent a week playing it through. ME 1> ME3> ME2 > MEa.
Last of Us is by far a top 10 of all time along with bioshock 1 and bioshock infinite.

Too bad youre not into FPS like Battlefield 1, Destiny, or Overwatch. But if you are, send me your PSN.

Big overwatch fan except that there are a lot of loud annoying little kids that play that game.

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[gamerEMdoc]

Too bad youre not into FPS like Battlefield 1, Destiny, or Overwatch. But if you are, send me your PSN.

I played all of them, spending quite a bit of time in all 3 before eventually getting bored with them. I'm definitely looking forward to Destiny 2, but the new COD WWII game is the shooter I'm most excited about. I played the hell out of COD3 and then COD MW back when I was a resident, but the series just got too repetitive. I'm excited about a WWII game again.

 

[zyx189]

What are your thoughts on pineapple on pizza?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I played all of them, spending quite a bit of time in all 3 before eventually getting bored with them. I'm definitely looking forward to Destiny 2, but the new COD WWII game is the shooter I'm most excited about. I played the hell out of COD3 and then COD MW back when I was a resident, but the series just got too repetitive. I'm excited about a WWII game again.

I thought MW2 was the best. That AC130 killstreak was money!

What do you think makes an applicant a top 10%er?

Do you think networking at annual conferences help in acquiring interviews? I couldnt help but notice that ACEP 17 is right before interviews and so is SAEM17.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

What are your thoughts on pineapple on pizza?

I support its ban by constitutional amendment. Greasy NY style pizza is my favorite food. It should not be tarnished by pineapple, or worse, ranch dressing.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

What do you think makes an applicant a top 10%er?

Good clinical skills (in and out of the room in a reasonable amount, good differentials, good plans, follows up on results and rechecks patients) with a good personality to be around that fits in with our group well.

Do you think networking at annual conferences help in acquiring interviews? I couldnt help but notice that ACEP 17 is right before interviews and so is SAEM17.

I think they can. I mean, you know that programs filter down applicants to try to cut down to a number that are truly interested, so its easy to get geographically filtered out. I think if you networked a bit in person at a conference, it would be easy to potentially net a few interviews. Its not something I did when I was a student, but I'm sure people have found some success that way. I was talking to another ED doc that's on with me on the education committee of my states ACEP chapter and we were discussing the possibility of some type of med student Q+A session and residency fair at our annual state academic assembly next year for this very reason. I think trying to engage students earlier in the career is important in terms of driving interest in not only the organization, but also things like legislative advocacy that the organizations play a key role in.

 

[MelMcT2009]

I'm glad to hear that. I did not get interviews at the two I declined even though I think I was competitive for those programs. I assumed it was just coincidental but hard to know with such a small sample size. Thanks!

Did you decline actual acceptances, or did you withdraw the application before a decision was made?

 

[RockFlag&Eagle]

Did you decline actual acceptances, or did you withdraw the application before a decision was made?

Declined away rotation acceptances...the three programs I applied for that month all answered the same week.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Declined away rotation acceptances...the three programs I applied for that month all answered the same week.

Seems petty to me if thats why they didnt extend an interview. I mean, programs have to know that students are applying to get rotations at multiple places. You cant apply to one place and wait for weeks/months to hear if you get in before applying elsewhere. Its just the nature of the game.

 

[racerwad]

I support its ban by constitutional amendment. Greasy NY style pizza is my favorite food. It should not be tarnished by pineapple, or worse, ranch dressing.

Ok, I had nothing to add to this thread until now. I have always respected you, @gamerEMdoc, but now some of that large mountain of respect has eroded a little. Pineapple on pizza can be fantastic and this is scientific fact.

 

[general987]

Is there any detriment to the applicant from a residency program viewpoint from the same institution that the applicant declined the acceptance for medical school admission? As in will they hold it against us? Thank you!

 

[RockFlag&Eagle]

Seems petty to me if thats why they didnt extend an interview. I mean, programs have to know that students are applying to get rotations at multiple places. You cant apply to one place and wait for weeks/months to hear if you get in before applying elsewhere. Its just the nature of the game.

If that truly is the reason I didn't get the interviews then I just figure it's one way to thin out the pack of qualified applicants to offer interviews to...and hopefully not just simply pettiness. Luckily for us, there are just so many great programs out there that if you lose out on one or two it's not going to hurt you that much.

 

[doggydog]

Is there any detriment to the applicant from a residency program viewpoint from the same institution that the applicant declined the acceptance for medical school admission? As in will they hold it against us? Thank you!

I love the thought of a medical school keeping a file on every applicant that ever spurned them in the past in order to possibly enact their revenge four years later.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Ok, I had nothing to add to this thread until now. I have always respected you, @gamerEMdoc, but now some of that large mountain of respect has eroded a little. Pineapple on pizza can be fantastic and this is scientific fact.

"Scientific fact" from a pineapple industry sponsored study I suspect. I don't get my facts from dinners with the dole pineapple reps.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Is there any detriment to the applicant from a residency program viewpoint from the same institution that the applicant declined the acceptance for medical school admission? As in will they hold it against us? Thank you!

I love the thought of a medical school keeping a file on every applicant that ever spurned them in the past in order to possibly enact their revenge four years later.

I like to think that persons job, to keep the files on every candidate whoever declined admission, only to try to screw them over 4 years later, would be amazing. It'd involve one of those big cork boards, lots of pictures connected by strings. If any school does this, please let me know. I'll send in my CV. 🙂

In all serious, there is no way anyone does this. First, schools and residencies are run by different people. The med school admissions office doesn't have any idea what the PD of the EM program is doing, and vice versa. Second, the logistics to run such a petty revenge program would be absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn't worry about this, at all.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

If that truly is the reason I didn't get the interviews then I just figure it's one way to thin out the pack of qualified applicants to offer interviews to...and hopefully not just simply pettiness. Luckily for us, there are just so many great programs out there that if you lose out on one or two it's not going to hurt you that much.

You may be right. I mean, I guess it wouldn't be petty if a program assumed you didn't have a true interest in their program. Programs know most people match at one their top 3 choices. If someone isn't likely to rank you in their top 3, you are most likely wasting that interview spot. So strategically, I guess that could make sense on the programs end. So I guess it could not be about being petty, but rather being strategic.

 

[EMGui2017]

or worse, ranch dressing.

This is almost the equivalent of when you discover that your favorite gun on COD is getting nerfed... I feel let down 🙁

 

[unnumzaan]

Re: regional filter for interview invites, how do you guys treat applicants who left the area for med school but would like to return? Assuming interest is either expressed somewhere in application or can be inferred from permanent address and college.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Yeah, so regional filtering isn't perfect. Our program coordinator handles a lot of the filtering on ERAS but my understanding is that you can filter by med school, but not by hometown or anything like that. I made a list of schools that were geographically closest, but it was a wide net of our state and several states around us. Those certainly aren't the only people that interview either.

As for people that are from the area, then leave but want to come back. My program's in a pretty small city. There are several small colleges around, and for the most part, we know the students who are going to med school who are from the area from those colleges. The hospital has a mentoring program for Junior/Seniors for local college students during the summer that's a paid internship to come rotate through all the different fields/programs for exposure, shadowing, and to boost their med school application, so that's one way GME at the hospital knows about students early who are local. Plus, its pretty rare that a local kid who wants to do EM doesn't try and rotate with us in their 4th year. Or at least doesn't go to one of the med schools in our regional filter. But if all that failed, I'm pretty sure they'd just email or call us and let us know they were local and didn't get an interview.

 

[umt43]

I like to think that persons job, to keep the files on every candidate whoever declined admission, only to try to screw them over 4 years later, would be amazing. It'd involve one of those big cork boards, lots of pictures connected by strings. If any school does this, please let me know. I'll send in my CV. 🙂

In all serious, there is no way anyone does this. First, schools and residencies are run by different people. The med school admissions office doesn't have any idea what the PD of the EM program is doing, and vice versa. Second, the logistics to run such a petty revenge program would be absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn't worry about this, at all.

While I completely agree that there is no way it matters, and that in general the people who run the school and residency are different - there IS an EM PD at a pretty well known EM program (which may or may not be in your program's state) who is also the dean of medical school admissions 🙂.

 

[surely]

While I completely agree that there is no way it matters, and that in general the people who run the school and residency are different - there IS an EM PD at a pretty well known EM program (which may or may not be in your program's state) who is also the dean of medical school admissions 🙂.

You just described my dream job.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

While I completely agree that there is no way it matters, and that in general the people who run the school and residency are different - there IS an EM PD at a pretty well known EM program (which may or may not be in your program's state) who is also the dean of medical school admissions 🙂.

Hahaha I was going to say the same thing. Definitely the last person who would care. One of the coolest people I've had the honor of working with.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

You just described my dream job.

Mine too. Being a med school dean would be amazing.

 

[brk81144]

What's your take on this new video interview?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

What's your take on this new video interview?

My first reaction was "whats the point". Then I thought about it, and maybe it has potential to help those that score low on boards but are clinically good get some interviews since its another way for programs to filter applicants other than just a board score. In the end, like anything, I think We just need to see what it is, how it will be used, and how its implemented. If its free and helps open up some doors for students then Id welcome it. If its going to lead to a costly process that is not in the students best interest, then Id obviously be against it.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Does updating programs of new developments, submission of a manuscript, or a publication in your CV make a difference if they want to interview you after you have already submitted your application?
What would you view more highly? A great SLOE from an average school, or an average letter from a great school in terms of securing an interview?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Does updating programs of new developments, submission of a manuscript, or a publication in your CV make a difference if they want to interview you after you have already submitted your application?

Maybe not while waiting to hear about an interview, although it won't hurt to try. But definitely after the interview. I usually ask candidates to email me if they have anything like another SLOE, pending STEP 2 score, etc as a reminder to go back and add that to their application score.

What would you view more highly? A great SLOE from an average school, or an average letter from a great school in terms of securing an interview?

Depends on what you consider average and great. It's all in the eye of the beholder. I've seen docs from big name places that could never function in a busy community hospital without a billion resources. So when it comes to evaluating candidates, I keep that in mind, and I don't really care about the name on the SLOE. Understand though, that's my perspective coming from a community EM program. I'm sure that some program leadership from big name university places care more about letters from other big name university places. So the name of the place doesn't matter to me. What matters is the grade distribution. I'm more impressed by a great SLOE from a place who doesn't give great SLOEs to everyone than I am a great SLOE from a big name program. If there's a community EM program that doesn't inflate their grades and gives a great SLOE, thats more meaningful than a great SLOE from a big name place that has significant grade inflation. But I wouldn't try to plan rotations around that though. Because grading/SLOEs are going to change all the time as clerkship directors change all the time.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Do the majority of interview invites applicants have 1 SLOE by the time they interview or 2 SLOEs?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Do the majority of interview invites applicants have 1 SLOE by the time they interview or 2 SLOEs?

In October, a sizable percentage only have one SLOE. By December, I'd say the vast majority have 2.

 

[DrWhozits]

@gamerEMdoc how do you feel about MS1 or 2s shadowing at prospective residencies?

I'm interested in shadowing a little over the summer in an ED to get a closer look at the specialty. But do you think there is any value in doing it at a place with a residency program to possibly make connections?

 

[gamerEMdoc]

@gamerEMdoc how do you feel about MS1 or 2s shadowing at prospective residencies?

I'm interested in shadowing a little over the summer in an ED to get a closer look at the specialty. But do you think there is any value in doing it at a place with a residency program to possibly make connections?

I don't know, I honestly think you'd just get in the way in a residency program. The summer is so busy with heavy patient loads, new residents, and MS4's flooding the ED trying to get early SLOEs. To throw a M1/2 into the mix, I'm not sure how much you'd get out of that, and how much that would be seen as an annoyance to be honest. If you honestly are just shadowing with the intent of seeing what EM is like, then probably best to stick to non-residency based sites. Obviously that won't get you early connections, but you'd likely get more attention than a residency site in July when they have a bunch of new learners already.

 

[Jabbed]

Is not having a membership in any of the big national organizations (ACEP, SAEM, EMRA) something of a red flag when reviewing and interviewing applicants?

 

[DrWhozits]

I don't know, I honestly think you'd just get in the way in a residency program. The summer is so busy with heavy patient loads, new residents, and MS4's flooding the ED trying to get early SLOEs. To throw a M1/2 into the mix, I'm not sure how much you'd get out of that, and how much that would be seen as an annoyance to be honest. If you honestly are just shadowing with the intent of seeing what EM is like, then probably best to stick to non-residency based sites. Obviously that won't get you early connections, but you'd likely get more attention than a residency site in July when they have a bunch of new learners already.

Dang, well thanks for you answer. Would your answer change if it were mid-year?

 

[TheMountainsAreCalling10]

Do ACGME residencies view an applicant with 2 AOA SLOEs differently than someone with 2 SLOEs from both ACGME programs?

 

[lucid_leprechaun]

Just out of curiosity, what are the usual reasons that people match low on the rank list/ don't match? Especially people with good board scores, good interviews, and successful aways.
I know some people that are fun to talk to, boards > 240 and H on aways that were offered amazing interviews and yet didn't match/ match in the top 5.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Is not having a membership in any of the big national organizations (ACEP, SAEM, EMRA) something of a red flag when reviewing and interviewing applicants?

Nope. I rarely look at it to be honest. I realize students only have limited funds. I think its impressive when a student gets involved or holds a national position in a committee. Otherwise, I don't put too much stock in that part of the application.

Dang, well thanks for you answer. Would your answer change if it were mid-year?

It would certainly be a better time, but I guess my question is, what is your goal? If its just to make contacts, I think you can do that by seeking out an advisor in their department, maybe going to a weekly conference here and there. I'm just not sure anyone gets much out of just shadowing on either end. I get it when it comes to college kids who have to get some medical shadowing. Never made much sense to shadow as a med student though. But that's just my opinion.

Do ACGME residencies view an applicant with 2 AOA SLOEs differently than someone with 2 SLOEs from both ACGME programs?

I think it makes it look like you are likely doing the AOA match. We're a former AOA program, switched to ACGME in the first group approved as part of the merger. So I've been on both sides. Being on the ACGME side, it's incredibly frustrating to lose great candidates that would've matched with you who tell you they want to go the ACGME route, but are too imitidated and match AOA. It's absolutely maddening, and I can't wait for a few more years when the match is combined. That being said, from my perspective (n=1; I'm speaking for no one else here) a SLOE is a SLOE as long as it comes from a residency program.

Just out of curiosity, what are the usual reasons that people match low on the rank list/ don't match? Especially people with good board scores, good interviews, and successful aways.
I know some people that are fun to talk to, boards > 240 and H on aways that were offered amazing interviews and yet didn't match/ match in the top 5.

It's either something in the application they don't know about, like a comment in a SLOE that's a killer (for instance something like "frequently showed up late for their shift"), or they don't interview well, or lastly, their rank list was more competitive than their application. Simplified, a great candidate with a list full of good programs will likely match at #1. A good candidate with a list full of great programs will likely match further down their list.

 

[Jabbed]

Does not waiving your right to see your SLOEs result in being automatically screened out?

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[gamerEMdoc]

Automatically screened out? Probably not, I doubt most programs are going to look that closely. Now, from the standpoint of the SLOE writer, I probably wouldn't write a SLOE without the student waiving the right to see the letter. The entire point is objectivity, and no one is objective when the other person knows what is written.

 

[SamtheWise]

My home program strongly dislikes the Doximity rankings and encourages students to steer clear of it. Because of this and the fact that I was fortunate enough to have good advising, I had little use for Doximity. However, not everyone is as fortunate.

What is your opinion on the Doximity rankings, and do you feel like they have helped/harmed/made no difference in the quality and quantity of applicants that your program is getting?

 

[ShowtimeKaner88]

Any input on how many audition rotations a student should do? If you have the ability to do 4, should you do 4? I currently plan on doing 3 coming from an osteopathic school with no EM home program.

Your advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Any input on how many audition rotations a student should do? If you have the ability to do 4, should you do 4? I currently plan on doing 3 coming from an osteopathic school with no EM home program

For osteopathic students I'd say 3-4, for allopathics 2-3. The reason for the difference is because often times osteopathic students don't know which match they are going to do early on, so they schedule rotations at both AOA and ACGME sites.

 

[Gaborik10]

Thanks for the great thread. As far as the regional filtering goes, besides away rotations is there anything an applicant can do to boost chances of getting interviews if they are applying to regions of the country where they have no ties? Can sending an email explaining my interest to a PD/PC help? I'd prefer to leave my region of the country but I don't have ties anywhere else.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

My home program strongly dislikes the Doximity rankings and encourages students to steer clear of it. Because of this and the fact that I was fortunate enough to have good advising, I had little use for Doximity. However, not everyone is as fortunate.

What is your opinion on the Doximity rankings, and do you feel like they have helped/harmed/made no difference in the quality and quantity of applicants that your program is getting?

Choosing a residency doesn't have to do with "prestige of the program" for many people. I ranked the current #1 NE program last on my list in favor of a bunch of community EM programs that I'm sure aren't anywhere to be found and cancelled interviews at tons of other "prestigious" programs because at that point in my life I wasn't looking to train in a University based setting. I was looking more for "fit" than I was prestige. You have to remember, no matter where you go, you will receive fairly standardized training at an ACGME program. There will be little differences, but for the most part, EM is EM. If research resources are important to you, then I'd definitely target research heavy places. If fellowships are important to you (all 5% of you out there in EM), then target places that traditionally place people in fellowships. If you want to work in a University setting, target University programs. If you only ever wanted to work out in the community or in a community EM residency, consider community EM programs. And in the end, don't worry no matter where you match as long as you match somewhere. You'll be trained well no matter what.

So I guess my point is, I don't think doximity adds a ton to how people pick residencies. For those that want prestige, then doximity is probably helpful. For those that don't care, then its not. The training will be the same no matter what. You'll notice that prestigious programs will have higher board pass rates than others, but if you let any program start matching people with step scores north of 260 for their entire class, they'd all have a 100% pass rate too. The best predictor on board pass rate is how people did on standardized tests before, not where they train, in my opinion. If you are a good test taker with board scores in the 270's, you could probably pass the EM board without ever doing residency.

In the end, people choose residencies (and places choose residents) for different reasons. Not everyone values a prestigious name, and not every place values top shelf board scores. A lot of the audition/match process is about finding a "fit" on both sides of the aisle. I don't think doximity helps in that. My program, being a community EM program, certainly is never going to be at the top of the doximity list, but I'll pit my residents clinically against any program out there. Students come and rotate at my institution almost completely on word of mouth. We aren't on VSAS. When 3rd years ask 4th years above them where to rotate, people that had a great experience here recommend us. That's just not something that is going to show up on a doximity rank list, but thats ok. Like I said, everyone values different things.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

Thanks for the great thread. As far as the regional filtering goes, besides away rotations is there anything an applicant can do to boost chances of getting interviews if they are applying to regions of the country where they have no ties? Can sending an email explaining my interest to a PD/PC help? I'd prefer to leave my region of the country but I don't have ties anywhere else.

Rotations in the area of the country you may want to end up. I'd also consider an email to the PC explaining your interest in their program despite the geographic difference.

 

[nkb115]

I am currently an ObGyn intern and want to switch EM. I'm not even sure if this is a possibility but would love any sort of guidiance on how I can go about even seeing if this is a possibility.

 

[gamerEMdoc]

I am currently an ObGyn intern and want to switch EM. I'm not even sure if this is a possibility but would love any sort of guidiance on how I can go about even seeing if this is a possibility.

It's possible, but you're going to have to go through the match this year. And you're going to have to tell your program director that you're looking at switching specialties. Because you're likely going to want a letter of recommendation from your program director and need time off for interviews. I'm assuming you probably don't have EM letters of recommendation, which will likely hurt, but people who are switching specialties are in a totally different situation. If there is a way you can swing doing an elective to get an EM letter, that would be helpful. If The hospital you are at for OB has an ED program, that will almost certainly be your best bet of matching assuming you're on good terms with them. If there is an ed program there, Id get in touch with the pd or apd soon to let them know of your interest and ask for advice on making you competitve for their specific program, since that will be your best bet.

 

[Bouddha]

I am currently an ObGyn intern and want to switch EM. I'm not even sure if this is a possibility but would love any sort of guidiance on how I can go about even seeing if this is a possibility.

You don't necessarily have to for through the match, if you can find a vacant spot. Check out here: Residency Vacancy Services

 

[gamerEMdoc]

You don't necessarily have to for through the match, if you can find a vacant spot. Check out here: Residency Vacancy Services

True. CORD has a list of openings too, but usually most programs seem to be looking for a year of EM residency experience.

 

[medhopeful82]

I am a current M1 at an US allopathic school. I am very interested in EM, but my school does not have an EM residency program. There is not even a EM residency in the city. How can I set myself up for mentoring and enough SLOE's? My school averages 10-12 EM matches every year so they all find a way to make it work, I'm just not sure how to go about it since I won't have any possibility of doing EM rotations until the very end of M3/beginning of M4. I have heard that I shouldn't expect a SLOE out of my first EM rotation because I will have so much to learn that I won't be as impressive as I hopefully will be by the next rotations... would you agree with this?

Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[RockFlag&Eagle]

I am a current M1 at an US allopathic school. I am very interested in EM, but my school does not have an EM residency program. There is not even a EM residency in the city. How can I set myself up for mentoring and enough SLOE's? My school averages 10-12 EM matches every year so they all find a way to make it work, I'm just not sure how to go about it since I won't have any possibility of doing EM rotations until the very end of M3/beginning of M4. I have heard that I shouldn't expect a SLOE out of my first EM rotation because I will have so much to learn that I won't be as impressive as I hopefully will be by the next rotations... would you agree with this?

Thank you for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

I'd ask the 10-12 M4s that just matched EM from your school...they'll be able to speak more specifically to your situation and give you recommendations.