EM PD - Ask Me Anything

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How important is the actual interview for most applicants? My gut instinct is that we're all essentially pre-ranked and that the interview is to screen for psychopathy.

I feel that most of my interviews are going well, but really amount to little more than small talk. I know that the idea of "fit" is important, but I honestly can say that that I feel that I would "fit" with any of the programs that I've interviewed with thus far.
 
I know cancelling an interview within 2 weeks is a big no-no, but what about moving the interview to an earlier date? Trying to move a date 12 days away to one 5 days from now.
 
Jabbed said:
How important is the actual interview for most applicants? My gut instinct is that we're all essentially pre-ranked and that the interview is to screen for psychopathy.

I feel that most of my interviews are going well, but really amount to little more than small talk. I know that the idea of "fit" is important, but I honestly can say that that I feel that I would "fit" with any of the programs that I've interviewed with thus far.
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Oh my no. The interview, at least to me, is one of the most important part of the application. I pre-score the individual apps for my program, but the interview is one of the biggest parts of the application score. Do not minimize the importance of the interview. Candidates can not only completely sink themselves with a bad interview if they shoot themselves in the foot, but if a candidate clearly seems like a fit with the residency, it can really help. You are right that the majority of interviews are small talk. My goals when I interview someone are twofold. I want to address any questions I had about their app, if there are any and give them a chance to ask me any questions they want to ask me. After that, my only goal is to get to know them as a person and try to determine their fit within our team.
 
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I'm considering dropping an interview at an east coast place in a great location, but with a previous history of poor/limited reputation per SDN and one PD on the east coast said I shouldn't even bother applying. Any way to get any other information? Or should I just drop it? If # of IVs is not a question.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Oh my no. The interview, at least to me, is one of the most important part of the application. I pre-score the individual apps for my program, but the interview is one of the biggest parts of the application score. Do not minimize the importance of the interview. Candidates can not only completely sink themselves with a bad interview if they shoot themselves in the foot, but if a candidate clearly seems like a fit with the residency, it can really help. You are right that the majority of interviews are small talk. My goals when I interview someone are twofold. I want to address any questions I had about their app, if there are any and give them a chance to ask me any questions they want to ask me. After that, my only goal is to get to know them as a person and try to determine their fit within our team.
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How do you view interviews for students who have already rotated at your program?
 
OneTwoThreeFour said:
How do you view interviews for students who have already rotated at your program?
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We generally try to get them done when the student is here on rotation, assuming its during interview season. If the student is here in The summer before ERAS opens, its just to early and we bring them back.

Obviously for people that already rotated most of their questions are already answered and you kind of already have gotten to know them. So the interview basically is more to address any issues that you may have questions about feom their app about something in their sloes, mpse’s etc. After that I usually use some of the time to ask what we could do better to improve our rotation experience, etc. And i ask the ones that rotated early and came back where else they went and what they liked about those programs/rotations.

Not sure if that answers your question.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
We generally try to get them done when the student is here on rotation, assuming its during interview season. If the student is here in The summer before ERAS opens, its just to early and we bring them back.

Obviously for people that already rotated most of their questions are already answered and you kind of already have gotten to know them. So the interview basically is more to address any issues that you may have questions about feom their app about something in their sloes, mpse’s etc. After that I usually use some of the time to ask what we could do better to improve our rotation experience, etc. And i ask the ones that rotated early and came back where else they went and what they liked about those programs/rotations.

Not sure if that answers your question.
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I guess I was piggybacking on how highly you consider interviews during the rank process, I was wondering if that was different for students who had rotated at your institution (or, more broadly, if you think interviews have less emphasis after spending a month rotating there).
 
I see. It’s for the most point not as big of a deal bc for those that rotated you already have a sense of how their personality and work ethic meshes within the group of the residency. But Thats a generalization, over the years Ive had candidates help and hurt themselves considerably with the interview based on things that got brought up about their application that we didnt know at the time of the rotation.
 
On the subject of early rotating. When I interviewed at the end of my July rotation, outgoing PD said I needed to come back and spend a couple of days on shift with the new PD when they got in and working. I met with the new PD unofficially, and got the "Please don't feel like you need to" when I mentioned coming back for a couple of shifts.

Safe bet to say I don't need to come back to work with them?
 
gamerEMdoc said:
I see. It’s for the most point not as big of a deal bc for those that rotated you already have a sense of how their personality and work ethic meshes within the group of the residency. But Thats a generalization, over the years Ive had candidates help and hurt themselves considerably with the interview based on things that got brought up about their application that we didnt know at the time of the rotation.
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Could you elaborate a little on what kind of things?
 
LostinLift said:
I'm considering dropping an interview at an east coast place in a great location, but with a previous history of poor/limited reputation per SDN and one PD on the east coast said I shouldn't even bother applying. Any way to get any other information? Or should I just drop it? If # of IVs is not a question.
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My experience has been that the advice on here is pretty accurate if there is a consensus of opinion.
 
cubanlink said:
Could you elaborate a little on what kind of things?
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Yeah, dont want to get into the details from past years, you never know reads the forums and I certainly don't want to throw any students under the bus. But realize, when a student rotates with you before interview season, you really don't know much about their application. Which is nice in a way, since you get an unbiased opinion of them clinically, but there may be big red flags in their ERAS app. Things like taking extended periods off during school without a great reason, board failures, school honor code violations, etc. You don't know any of that stuff until you see their ERAS app. Not only that, but you don't work with every student more than once or twice, and sometimes barely at all when there are 6-8 students rotating at a time and you have a ton of faculty. So sometimes your gut about a students personality may be very different on the interview trail that the one shift you worked with them. And sometimes people just flat out shoot themselves in the foot during the interview. When I was a resident, I remember a med student at the interview dinner asking if it was possible to buy text books with the education money and then return the books and keep the cash. LOL. I mean, I'm not saying people don't do that, I'm just saying that you probably shouldn't talk about fraudulently gaming the system in an interview.
 
CajunMedic said:
On the subject of early rotating. When I interviewed at the end of my July rotation, outgoing PD said I needed to come back and spend a couple of days on shift with the new PD when they got in and working. I met with the new PD unofficially, and got the "Please don't feel like you need to" when I mentioned coming back for a couple of shifts.

Safe bet to say I don't need to come back to work with them?
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I wouldn't think so. I think second looks are completely unnecessary personally, and doubly so if you already spent a month there.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
When I was a resident, I remember a med student at the interview dinner asking if it was possible to buy text books with the education money and then return the books and keep the cash.
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Some people are so freakin' stupid. If you're going to do the crime, don't TELL anyone! We had a locums at my job that told everyone he was flying in a pregnant woman from Syria so that she could have the kid in the US. Seriously - if you're going to do it - cheat, steal, lie, whatever, don't tell anyone!
 
Hey gamerEMdoc,

Long time lurker & fan. I had a question about my app. I recently got my SLOE back from my only away and it was less than stellar. The program told me they had held the SLOE for a while - i finished the rotation end of October - because they wanted to make sure I got interviews. Spoke to clerkship coordinator who said that I had been given feedback of missing PE findings & shotty histories both of which I do not believe I had ever been told. I also was given the feedback of needing to maintain a broad Ddx. On the plus side, everyone in the program liked me and I was told I did great with patients. My home SLOE was top 1/3 & had great comments based on what I've been told on my interviews so far. I've never been lower anything so first time for everything - would have preferred if it had happen a different time. I was just wondering if you have any ideas what my outlook is like. I have 11 more interviews (total 16)- was gonna drop one to 15 but probs not best now. Step1: mid 240s; Step 2: low 250s for what its worth. Thank you for ur time.
 
I have a question because I'm in a unique situation (not a red flag). I will be doing my audition rotations outside the typical time (this upcoming February, March, and April) and then I'll do one more next October which will be my actual application year. I plan on getting SLOE's during my Feb/Mar/Apr rotations. Is it going to be difficult to get these considering I am outside the typical audition time? Are these SLOE's going to be viewed differently?

Thank you for everything you do on this forum!
 
No, they won’t be viewed differently, but getting the majority of SLOEs you third year could be risky because you’ll be judged against a bunch of students who were very polished 4th years. Though, I suspect there is more to this story and this isn’t your third year, and you are off cycle or something, because otherwise I’m not sure how you’d get 3 months of elective time in the spring of third year.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
No, they won’t be viewed differently, but getting the majority of SLOEs you third year could be risky because you’ll be judged against a bunch of students who were very polished 4th years. Though, I suspect there is more to this story and this isn’t your third year, and you are off cycle or something, because otherwise I’m not sure how you’d get 3 months of elective time in the spring of third year.
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Yeah I've already completed my third year and I'm currently in my 4th year. I'm one of the OMM fellows at my school so we have an alternating schedule of 4 month blocks (4 months OMM, 4 months regular 4th year rotations, 4 month OMM, etc.) which puts me off cycle and unfortunately I will be on an OMM block for July/Aug/Sept of my application year which are the prime audition months.

Thank you!
 
Hi gamerEMdoc!

Would you mind answering whether I have a good chance at EM given that my mentor from my pre-clinical years is strongly dissuading me? I'm a MS3 at a Northeastern Allopathic school. Step 1: 228, high pass in family and psych, pass in pediatrics so far.

Before I get labeled paranoid....
My pre-clinical mentor and I went over NRMP, ERAS, and Program Director Survey together and it seems by all means I'm near middle of the pack if not slightly below. However my mentor is extremely wary of my chances as he states most of people who match into EM from our school have honors across the board for their third year, with step 1 in the high 250's, but only get 1-2 interviews because of a pass in a EM sub-I. Honors are only for the top 10% of our class... Regardless, because of my current clinical grades and OK step 1 score, he said if I truly wanted EM I should consider applying to both EM and IM to be safe...

I think the hardest blow was that he said my chances aren't great considering that most of my classmates have started working towards EM during their first year through shadowing, research, etc and have made their names known. He candidly let me know that I'm technically already behind. But screw that, I spent my first year of medical school just doing the minimum to pass and gaming 8 hours a day. I have no regrets #YOLO

I'm trying not to believe everything he says given that he is in IM, but I also trust him and he does chat with the EM residency director at this school and is familiar with the profile of the graduating class for at least the last two years...

FWIW I'm not trying to match into a top tier program. I'd be ecstatic with a middle of the pack academic or community program.

I appreciate your help!
 
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DummyHippo said:
Hi gamerEMdoc!

Would you mind answering whether I have a good chance at EM given that my mentor from my pre-clinical years is strongly dissuading me? I'm a MS3 at a Northeastern Allopathic school. Step 1: 228, high pass in family and psych, pass in pediatrics so far.

Before I get labeled paranoid....
My pre-clinical mentor and I went over NRMP, ERAS, and Program Director Survey together and it seems by all means I'm near middle of the pack if not slightly below. However my mentor is extremely wary of my chances as he states most of people who match into EM from our school have honors across the board for their third year, with step 1 in the high 250's, but only get 1-2 interviews because of a pass in a EM sub-I. Honors are only for the top 10% of our class... Regardless, because of my current clinical grades and OK step 1 score, he said if I truly wanted EM I should consider applying to both EM and IM to be safe...

I think the hardest blow was that he said my chances aren't great considering that most of my classmates have started working towards EM during their first year through shadowing, research, etc and have made their names known. He candidly let me know that I'm technically already behind. But screw that, I spent my first year of medical school just doing the minimum to pass and gaming 8 hours a day. I have no regrets #YOLO

I'm trying not to believe everything he says given that he is in IM, but I also trust him and he does chat with the EM residency director at this school and is familiar with the profile of the graduating class for at least the last two years...

FWIW I'm not trying to match into a top tier program. I'd be ecstatic with a middle of the pack academic or community program.

I appreciate your help!
Click to expand...

Yeah, his advice is not grounded in reality. Plenty of people match in EM with boards much worse. Sure if you want a huge name residency, maybe thats what he means, but just matching... his statements arent backed up by any facts.

The last match data that is available is 2016. Based strictly on step one score, for applicants with a step one score between 220 and 230, 309 candidates matched and 21 did not. For scores of 210 to 220, 180 candidates matched and 20 did not. Thats a 90% match rate in the board score tier below you. Granted, this is basing things off of a board score, and board scores were not nearly the most important part of an application. SLOE will make or break almost everyone’s application when it comes to applying to EM.

I just find it absurd that there’s advisors telling people not to apply based on a single step one score, when the data clearly indicates success otherwise.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
I just find it absurd that there’s advisors telling people not to apply based on a single step one score, when the data clearly indicates success otherwise.
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I'm not. Most med school advisers (just like most pre-med advisers) can barely tell their heads from their arses.
 
gamerEMdoc said:
If only there were some place to go for sound advice...
:angelic:
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I know...right?

Funny thing is, many (most?) pre-med and med school advisers actively discourage their students from coming to SDN for advice.

Probably because they don't want to be put out of a job by a bunch of volunteers on the intarwebz.
 
I had written a response in this person's now locked thread, which was locked while I was composing. I said the same about an IM mentor for an EM aspirant, and how SDN has some more robust virtual advising. Of course, I also had a beer or several in me...
 
gutonc said:
I know...right?

Funny thing is, many (most?) pre-med and med school advisers actively discourage their students from coming to SDN for advice.

Probably because they don't want to be put out of a job by a bunch of volunteers on the intarwebz.
Click to expand...
What's funny is the advice he got from his adviser is the stereotype of advice you get from SDN. "AOA, 250+, all honors, multiple publications or go FM."
 
gamerEMdoc said:
Yeah, what has the internet ever accomplished. Makes more sense listening to an IM physician about how to match in EM. Hahahaha.
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My very large med school class had a grand total of 5 "official" clinical advisors. 2 IM, 1 GS, 1 OB, 1 Peds. Interested in a different specialty? Better find your own or otherwise figure it out for yourself.
 
Bill Brasky said:
What's funny is the advice he got from his adviser is the stereotype of advice you get from SDN. "AOA, 250+, all honors, multiple publications or go FM."
Click to expand...

Guess it depends on who you choose to listen to. Lots of voices and opinions out there.
 
DummyHippo said:
Hi gamerEMdoc!

Would you mind answering whether I have a good chance at EM given that my mentor from my pre-clinical years is strongly dissuading me? I'm a MS3 at a Northeastern Allopathic school. Step 1: 228, high pass in family and psych, pass in pediatrics so far.

Before I get labeled paranoid....
My pre-clinical mentor and I went over NRMP, ERAS, and Program Director Survey together and it seems by all means I'm near middle of the pack if not slightly below. However my mentor is extremely wary of my chances as he states most of people who match into EM from our school have honors across the board for their third year, with step 1 in the high 250's, but only get 1-2 interviews because of a pass in a EM sub-I. Honors are only for the top 10% of our class... Regardless, because of my current clinical grades and OK step 1 score, he said if I truly wanted EM I should consider applying to both EM and IM to be safe...

I think the hardest blow was that he said my chances aren't great considering that most of my classmates have started working towards EM during their first year through shadowing, research, etc and have made their names known. He candidly let me know that I'm technically already behind. But screw that, I spent my first year of medical school just doing the minimum to pass and gaming 8 hours a day. I have no regrets #YOLO

I'm trying not to believe everything he says given that he is in IM, but I also trust him and he does chat with the EM residency director at this school and is familiar with the profile of the graduating class for at least the last two years...

FWIW I'm not trying to match into a top tier program. I'd be ecstatic with a middle of the pack academic or community program.

I appreciate your help!
Click to expand...

Look at the spreadsheet for this years applicants and check the "applicant info tab." Spreadsheet

Do a good job on aways and apply broadly and I would think youd be fine. I dont think it could hurt to try to get involved in your school's EM program in some way (interest group?) if you can too. It also helps to have something that sets you apart from the pack (board scores aren't going to be it unless you crush step 2, so really good aways, some cool extracurricular...).

Also look at this thread that is buried a few pages back: What do programs look for?? FAQ
 
boomshaketheroom said:
Look at the spreadsheet for this years applicants and check the "applicant info tab." Spreadsheet

Do a good job on aways and apply broadly and I would think youd be fine. I dont think it could hurt to try to get involved in your school's EM program in some way (interest group?) if you can too. It also helps to have something that sets you apart from the pack (board scores aren't going to be it unless you crush step 2, so really good aways, some cool extracurricular...).

Also look at this thread that is buried a few pages back: What do programs look for?? FAQ
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SDN mangles links to the spreadsheet. Try this one if the above doesn't work: Official 2017-2018 Emergency Medicine Application and Interview Sheet

It's not super duper complete, but it helps give you some idea of the state of people who have gotten invites. But the sample sizes could be a lot larger, that's for sure.
 
gutonc said:
I know...right?

Funny thing is, many (most?) pre-med and med school advisers actively discourage their students from coming to SDN for advice.

Probably because they don't want to be put out of a job by a bunch of volunteers on the intarwebz.
Click to expand...

Admittedly you can get some **** advice from SDN as well. It's all about diversity of information. Take in from everywhere and distill the most accurate interpretation. Someone who only came to SDN for advice would probably end up applying to 100+ programs and sending out LOIs to every single one of them with average step scores.
 
EM2018orBUST said:
Admittedly you can get some **** advice from SDN as well. It's all about diversity of information. Take in from everywhere and distill the most accurate interpretation. Someone who only came to SDN for advice would probably end up applying to 100+ programs and sending out LOIs to every single one of them with average step scores.
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Says the guy/gal that’s been here for a month and a half.
 
I appreciate the help!

I've been trying to get an EM advisor but it's interviewing season so most are busy. I even met with the EM residency director but he blew me off telling me to wait until February. I got some soul searching to do after my IM mentor gave me pretty negative advice albeit dubious... Also I have to select my 4th year schedule in early January so pretty crappy advice from the EM director and IM mentor hasn't helped.

As a random aside, since we've been talking about games. Destiny 2 has been super disappointing, as has been CoD WW2, but my lord is Rainbow Six Siege fun. Check it out!
 
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DummyHippo said:
I appreciate the help!

I've been trying to get an EM advisor but it's interviewing season so most are busy. I even met with the EM residency director but he blew me off telling me to wait until February. I got some soul searching to do after my IM mentor gave me pretty negative advice albeit dubious... Also I have to select my 4th year schedule in early January so pretty crappy advice from the EM director and IM mentor hasn't helped.

As a random aside, since we've been talking about games. Destiny 2 has been super disappointing, as has been CoD WW2, but my lord is Rainbow Six Siege fun. Check it out!
Click to expand...

So last year I was in a similarly advisor-less situation (my advisor left, then I got a new one...who also left), right before picking my 4th year schedule. I emailed some EM people who I had heard were friendly to students, and who were involved in the residency program so they knew what was up; I explained the whole issue (no advisor, need to pick schedule, not sure what to do), and they all were willing to meet with me to discuss stuff. One of them couldn't meet in person due to scheduling stuff, so we talked on the phone.
Basically, my point is - email other people (as many as it takes til you get a good response), explain the situation, and you'll find someone to help out. EM people in general are pretty willing to lend a hand, even during interview season - just keep trying!
 
DummyHippo said:
I appreciate the help!

I've been trying to get an EM advisor but it's interviewing season so most are busy. I even met with the EM residency director but he blew me off telling me to wait until February. I got some soul searching to do after my IM mentor gave me pretty negative advice albeit dubious... Also I have to select my 4th year schedule in early January so pretty crappy advice from the EM director and IM mentor hasn't helped.

As a random aside, since we've been talking about games. Destiny 2 has been super disappointing, as has been CoD WW2, but my lord is Rainbow Six Siege fun. Check it out!
Click to expand...

Well, feel free to message me anytime if you have any questions going forward. I'm always willing to help any student, no matter where they are in the process.

As for games, I had a blast with Destiny 2, but haven't played in a few weeks. I played COD for one night and was like, I can't believe I bought this... I've been playing the hell out of Wolfenstein 2 lately.
 
Hey gamerEMdoc,

Thanks a lot for this thread. Just wondered if you could give me an idea of when programs sit down and finalize their rank list. Everything going well for me, but I will not have a Step 2 score in until the 1st-2nd week of Feb now (beyond my control). Will this affect my position at a lot of places, if everything else is good/in line for my application?
 
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