EM Resident : Palliative Medicine and You (Emergency Medicine)

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I am an EM-2 resident and will be applying for a palliative fellowship in the summer. The many insightful and inspiring posts you have shared on this forum had a lot to do with my decision to pursue HPM...so thank you again for that :)

This is very exciting news. Consider documenting your journey through applications/interviews/fellowship right here on this forum.

More data points and narratives for the field. I know I'd be interested in hearing about it -- so I'm sure many others would too!

Whether you decide to practice fulltime EM after fellowship (and use your palli skills), split practice, or full-time HPM (I hope you choose this option)... I'm confident you're going to come out ahead longterm in many many many ways.

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Yeah, sounds better than a day in the life of an EM attending in 2021 for sure. Here is a question I thought of: is there any possibility of having an outpatient practice after fellowship? I gather that after palliative fellowship, you are most likely going to employed by a hospital, but I am just curious if other arrangements are possible/plausible. Hospital admin drives me a little crazy with their obsession over metrics, but then maybe that is more of an EM problem.

Great question. In one word: yes. [Of course, there is more to it, but: "yes".]

Depending on your neck of the woods, there will be different availability of palliative services already in place for hospitals/specialists (read: oncologists, cardiologists, pulmonologists, nephrologists, etc.). On the one hand, if you are in a location with a lot of robust health systems or one main health system (but all the docs in the community are owned by the health system), it will be pretty damn hard. And on the other hand, if you are in an underserved area and the hospital has no formal palliative program (or maybe just a doc/np that does inpatient goals of care discussions), it is wide open for driving your stake in the ground with a private practice.

When there is a lot of competition (first example), many of the patients who will benefit from your expertise are going to be funneled to the teams that already have done great by that Oncologist (or whoever). If the docs are all owned by the health system, they will likely not refer to an outsider (per se) easily.

All that said, if you mean that you want to work outpatient (employed) after fellowship -- then, yes, and quite easily. There are many postings and opportunities for outpatient/clinic positions. Nevertheless, as with all specialties, it just gets harder if you want to be independent.

If you are thinking concierge or cash-based practice, I would heavily lean toward "no" -- it likely will not go well.

There is more to it, but it depends a bit on which way you were thinking...
 
Gotcha. That all makes a lot of sense and is encouraging. I was asking the question in a pretty vague sense really, what I was hoping to hear was simply that there existed some opportunities to have an employer besides the hospital. One of the lessons I've learned from being in EM is that its better to have options for what type of practice you can have.
 
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This is very exciting news. Consider documenting your journey through applications/interviews/fellowship right here on this forum.

More data points and narratives for the field. I know I'd be interested in hearing about it -- so I'm sure many others would too!

Whether you decide to practice fulltime EM after fellowship (and use your palli skills), split practice, or full-time HPM (I hope you choose this option)... I'm confident you're going to come out ahead longterm in many many many ways.
Will do!! Thank you :)
 
This is very exciting news. Consider documenting your journey through applications/interviews/fellowship right here on this forum.

More data points and narratives for the field. I know I'd be interested in hearing about it -- so I'm sure many others would too!

Whether you decide to practice fulltime EM after fellowship (and use your palli skills), split practice, or full-time HPM (I hope you choose this option)... I'm confident you're going to come out ahead longterm in many many many ways.
I am thinking I will likely will go the route of full-time HPM. Will you also be going this route as well? If so, I'm curious to hear more of your thoughts about going this path vs split practice vs full-time EM (with incorporation of HPM).

Thank you :)
 
Gotcha. That all makes a lot of sense and is encouraging. I was asking the question in a pretty vague sense really, what I was hoping to hear was simply that there existed some opportunities to have an employer besides the hospital. One of the lessons I've learned from being in EM is that its better to have options for what type of practice you can have.

Sure thing! While hospitals are likely the largest employer of palliative docs, freestanding cancer, and specialty practices also serve as employers across the country. For hospice, you have both nonprofit and for-profit agencies, large corporations, and tiny mom-and-pop shops. As I noted earlier, there are independent practices (granted rarer) -- or you could set up your own shop depending on the market and your energy/risk tolerance.
 
I am thinking I will likely will go the route of full-time HPM. Will you also be going this route as well? If so, I'm curious to hear more of your thoughts about going this path vs split practice vs full-time EM (with incorporation of HPM).

Thank you :)

I am taking a full-time palliative position, you got it.

In my opinion, the driver needs to be the individual's goals and interests. Pretty much my only satisfaction from working in the ED at this point is doing palliative medicine. So then the question arises -- if that is what I enjoy doing, why not just do it exclusively?

It took some time for me to be okay with leaving the ED. But after talking with colleagues who have been in the same/similar scenario and thinking it over myself, I've come to terms with it.

Cardiologists and gastroenterologists do not practice as their primary specialty, they don't try to search out a 50/50 split internist/cardiology job. It took some time for me to lose the guilt and appreciate that there is no reason to feel another way just because my primary specialty is EM instead of IM. I don't have to abandon that foundation, my EM knowledge and understanding will stick with me -- the skills, efficiency, and heuristics will ultimately rust.

I am however going to maintain a relationship with the ED in the form of being the liaison between our departments RE: protocols and policies to help bridge the services as smoothly as possible for our patients.

I do appreciate that the above is not for everyone. Some people take strong passion in the practice of emergency medicine -- for those people, it makes perfect sense to try to continue to implement it into their career part-time. That said, those opportunities exist. I came across multiple positions that were amenable to splitting time between HPM and EM.

For the true "100% EM forever doc" who wants to take their game to the next level and wants/needs to do a fellowship for XYZ reason, then an HPM fellowship makes a great option for adding specific tools to the toolbox that otherwise would not exist -- or at least not be as sharp.

It really depends on the person.
 
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Fellowship has so far proven to be the most enjoyable experience of my medical career. Granted it is still early in the year, learning the subspecialty day-by-day has been IMMENSELY rewarding. The clinical approach, the medications, the tailored regimens, the communication techniques et al are vastly different than in the ED. I feel the dedicated year to learn in becoming a board-certified subspecialist is warranted. My chief year in EM specifically was also very rewarding in many ways but rolling the dice to pursue the fellowship has absolutely proven to be the correct choice for me.

To frame things a bit more, I knew heading into EM residency that HPM was going to be on the radar and I in no way regret my primary specialty choice. I'd choose my EM residency program again 10 times out of 10.

For people on the fence this cycle, I experienced minimal "discrimination" by programs applying as an EM resident. (If you look at old threads, this was a concern of mine back then.) I say minimal in the sense that -- despite ACGME, ABMS, and AAHPM all acknowledging that EM residency is a perfectly fine pathway into HPM -- there were still a few programs that were not interested solely due to me not being IM/FM.

There are 3 of us at my program now. One is IM, one is FM, and I round out the trio with EM... I feel this is an excellent mix as we all bring new experiences, strengths, and goals to the year. We all learn from each other in ways which wouldn't have materialized if we were out of the same primary specialty.

For my EM residents, the lifestyle and daily routine is vastly different than in the pit. I'm at one of the more rigorous academic HPM fellowship programs, with a M-F, 8a-5p, Q3 week overnight call schedule for the entire year -- then add on top of that studying during evenings. Call has been very valuable for education. Additionally, you are learning and getting to practice a field that you love, so this isn't a bad thing. After all, you are doing what you sought to do. One year is a short amount of time to take it all in, so don't fret about "working hard". With that said, overall, a day on service is much less stressful than an ED shift (depending on the person). If you're exploring this field as an option, you likely enjoy talking with patients, prefer not being rushed, wish to relieve suffering, and highly value advocating for your patient's wishes. I'm happy to say that you will do all those things to the nth degree in HPM. Additionally, it was a twilight-zone moment discovering that consultants are happy when you call them back and grateful for your help -- they are the ones consulting you now. Coming out of the ED, this was pretty entertaining to see.

You will have the opportunity to still do some procedures depending on your patients, their primary team, and department culture. Procedures like paracentesis and thoracentesis could be doable for symptom management. On the other hand, you likely won't be intubating or doing chest tubes much anymore.

Patients and families are, as a whole, extremely grateful for your expertise, time, and attention. This is satisfying and a nice cherry-on-top to be appreciated.

Additionally, the team-based nature of the service is amazing. While much of healthcare delivery is now a "team sport", I can't think of many other specialties where that is more true than HPM. Much time is spent in IDT, where literally, you have numerous highly-trained and caring folks putting their minds together to achieve a common goal: make things better for the patient. While the practice of EM is also a team sport, in that the department would crumble without nurses, respiratory, etc... the culture and spirit is just completely different in HPM.

Long story short: if you are interested in being the essence of a physician, striving to relieve suffering in the sick/dying with confirmed pathology, and being part of the squad that gets called when ish hits the fan (in a sense similar to EM in that regard) consider looking more into subspecializing in HPM!

Happy to answer any questions you might have in the future!

It has been a bit over a year now since starting this thread.

Wanted to pop back in and update, esp since there are not a lot of resources out there for EM residents looking towards HPM as a subspecialty.

Fellowship, during the time, and now in the rearview, was phenomenal. I was just talking to my wife this week about something and somehow it came up where she pointed out: "there wasn't a day that year that you came home irritated or complained about something at the hospital". That was powerful to hear. And in retrospect, it was true. Regardless of the service, the team, or the venue -- every day was rewarding.

I hope that carries on as a general trend in my attending job!

Still getting settled in, but for your reference on the type of medicine you can practice coming out of EM residency as an attending if you dedicate 1 extra year to your training (i.e. fellowship):

I work at a large academic center with 50+ residency and fellowship programs, including an EM residency and HPM fellowship (I serve as faculty for the latter).

Depending on the week, I am either working on the inpatient consult service, the inpatient palliative unit, or in our palliative clinic.

Consult service functions for both complex symptom management and assistance with complicated decision-making/goals of care conversations. The team consists of attending, fellow, NP/PA, and any residents or med students that happen to be on the service. It runs M-F and days are flexible in that it is 830-900 to 4-5PM. Weekend coverage for acute consult needs is covered by whoever is the inpatient palliative unit doc for the weekend.

The inpatient palliative unit is for patients with a clear delineation in their desired care and are either transferred to our service or direct admit. We function as the primary team so are in charge of everything -- from high-level palliative sedation decisions -- to placing diet/ambulating orders. Given the circumstances of their disease process and admission status, the mortality rate for the unit is understandable at >50%. We also have some hospice patients on our unit when they need to be admitted for GIP level care. The census is very doable typically ranging between 3-8 pts at any given time. This is a 7-days per week service, so when you are on you're on for 7 days. We are available for overnight calls during this week, but first call goes to the fellow/NP/PA and we are their back-up as needed. It works out to being on home-call about every 5-6 weeks.

Clinic is where we see out folks... you guessed it... in the outpatient clinic. You can have everything from new consults to quick check-ins with patients you have been following for years. Note, however, that even the quick check-ins feel luxurious as there are only 2 types of time slots for bookings: either 60 minutes or 30 minutes. There are no 10-minute bookings or double-booking. Our clinic has a cap of 10 patients per day. It is eye-opening seeing how some PCP colleagues have to see 30+ patients per day. I feel spoiled with a cap of 10, but given the complexity and needs of our patients/families, it is still a day's hard work. The schedule is M-F 830-4 PM. We could have fellows and residents in the clinic any given day, in which case they take on some of those aforementioned 10 patients scheduled for the day.

Benefit-wise, they are quite generous with what works out to be essentially 7-8 weeks PTO. There is a CME fund and a 403b+457 plan with guaranteed employer contributions which work out to about 15k per year extra by the institution. I think I mentioned previously that current compensation hovers around 300. Every day regardless of service I have at least a 1-hour lunch. No complaints really.

Given my background in EM, I have been asked to get involved or eventually spearhead the workflow/protocols with our ED. I haven't taken this on yet, but will perhaps once I get my feet under me. I can see how the background lends to more understanding from the ED doc side of things than perhaps if an IM/FM trained palliative doc was sitting in the same seat.

Many of the folks in EM like to work with "sick" -- let me tell you that you will be working with often times the sickest of the sick. While you won't be focusing on resuscitative emergencies anymore -- there is still a surplus of daily symptomatic emergencies to tend to which given the values and goals of our patients are just as high acuity/importance to manage. Improve things for your patient. Find meaning in your work. Do a good job.

So if HPM is a field where the essence captures your interests and passion, this sort of a career is available to you coming from EM residency. My day to day life is 0% resembling work in the ED, for whatever that is worth. Still would have chosen EM as my primary specialty!

Anyway, I get many PM's about palliative and the EM/HPM mix on here -- please feel free to post those questions or comments on here instead of PM so that those that come after you can benefit from our discussions.
 
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If anyone wouldn't mind answering (especially you, Frazier! Your answers and info have been incredibly elucidating regarding EM/Palliative in general!), if I decide to do a Palliative/Hospice fellowship straight out of EM residency, will most fellowships allow me to do shifts in their respective EDs? I am worried that if I do a Palliative/Hospice fellowship straight out of residency and have no ED exposure for that year, that my fresh skills may diminish quickly, or that it may be an issue to employers for a gap of EM when I am looking for other EM jobs right after the fellowship. Are these justified worries, especially in the worsening EM market (would I even be able to moonlight depending on location)? Thank you for any answers!
 
Per ACGME rules I was not allowed to work as a faculty in the same institution that I was a fellow. Moonlighting was fine, on the other hand.
 
If anyone wouldn't mind answering (especially you, Frazier! Your answers and info have been incredibly elucidating regarding EM/Palliative in general!), if I decide to do a Palliative/Hospice fellowship straight out of EM residency, will most fellowships allow me to do shifts in their respective EDs? I am worried that if I do a Palliative/Hospice fellowship straight out of residency and have no ED exposure for that year, that my fresh skills may diminish quickly, or that it may be an issue to employers for a gap of EM when I am looking for other EM jobs right after the fellowship. Are these justified worries, especially in the worsening EM market (would I even be able to moonlight depending on location)? Thank you for any answers!
As the wise WilcoWorld noted, it is possible!
A similar scenario here, I was welcome to moonlight ED shifts as a HPM fellow.
I did some shifts and then just stopped eventually because I valued my time more.
My hesitation to stop was in line with what you described: erosion of EM skills.
However, at the same time, I knew the aim was working full-time as a palliative doc... and I didn't need the money... so I asked myself "why am I doing this again? Cardiologists don't typically moonlight as hospitalists. I should focus on my subspecialty."

HOWEVER, if my goal was to still work part-time (or full-time) in the ED, I would 100% recommend moonlighting during fellowship. Which, if that describes you, means that it is something you should check on with each program before finalizing your rank list.

You could alternatively do locums somewhere, but that is a more complex route than just picking up some moonlighting at your fellowship institution.

As a side note, I would def recommend doing the fellowship right after residency if you are serious about it. Don't delay.

Great questions!
 
Thank you for the info! I will be seriously considering palliative care. As an EM resident now even though I enjoy the pace of the ED, I can't see myself doing this for decades. Though obviously residency is tougher with worse hours compared to attending life and not my main reason to pursue the fellowship, I will eventually want to slow things down.
 
Thank you for the info! I will be seriously considering palliative care. As an EM resident now even though I enjoy the pace of the ED, I can't see myself doing this for decades. Though obviously residency is tougher with worse hours compared to attending life and not my main reason to pursue the fellowship, I will eventually want to slow things down.

Thank you.

I encourage you to do a rotation or shadow if possible at a large academic center (with a robust department) to more likely see the breadth of what the field can offer in regard to practice settings.
 
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Hi guys, currently an EM2 resident ripping all my hair out trying to figure out what I should do in a year and a half's time when graduation rolls around. I've been toying with the idea of a HPM fellowship since intern year, however as of recent I can't seem to get over the psychological hurdle of the lack of EM exposure during a HPM fellowship. It makes it more complicated that I'm here on a visa and hence moonlighting may be restricted too. The plan is the do EM full time for some decades with some HPM on the side, then transition to full time HPM closer to retirement.

Very nerve-wrecking to see the possibility of taking a whole year out of EM freshly out of residency, then walking in to the ED after fellowship forgetting how to intubate, put chest tubes, etc. Almost makes me want to do a couple years in EM as an attending then go back for a fellowship. Other than the income difference, what's the biggest con against doing so?

Definitely seeing HPM in the future but not sure exactly when in the future quite yet.... Would appreciate some advice for better direction. Thank you guys!

PS. Love the energy in this thread. Makes me excited about HPM.
 
Hi guys, currently an EM2 resident ripping all my hair out trying to figure out what I should do in a year and a half's time when graduation rolls around. I've been toying with the idea of a HPM fellowship since intern year, however as of recent I can't seem to get over the psychological hurdle of the lack of EM exposure during a HPM fellowship. It makes it more complicated that I'm here on a visa and hence moonlighting may be restricted too. The plan is the do EM full time for some decades with some HPM on the side, then transition to full time HPM closer to retirement.

Very nerve-wrecking to see the possibility of taking a whole year out of EM freshly out of residency, then walking in to the ED after fellowship forgetting how to intubate, put chest tubes, etc. Almost makes me want to do a couple years in EM as an attending then go back for a fellowship. Other than the income difference, what's the biggest con against doing so?

Definitely seeing HPM in the future but not sure exactly when in the future quite yet.... Would appreciate some advice for better direction. Thank you guys!

PS. Love the energy in this thread. Makes me excited about HPM.
Doing a couple years of EM, while enjoying a modest increase in cost of living but mostly saving that pay difference, will put you in a great position for HPM fellowship. You'll have a nice financial cushion, you'll be a more mature clinician (helps a lot in HPM), and you'll be less afraid of skill atrophy.

Sounds to me like you already know what is best for you ;)
 
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Hi guys, currently an EM2 resident ripping all my hair out trying to figure out what I should do in a year and a half's time when graduation rolls around. I've been toying with the idea of a HPM fellowship since intern year, however as of recent I can't seem to get over the psychological hurdle of the lack of EM exposure during a HPM fellowship. It makes it more complicated that I'm here on a visa and hence moonlighting may be restricted too. The plan is the do EM full time for some decades with some HPM on the side, then transition to full time HPM closer to retirement.

Very nerve-wrecking to see the possibility of taking a whole year out of EM freshly out of residency, then walking in to the ED after fellowship forgetting how to intubate, put chest tubes, etc. Almost makes me want to do a couple years in EM as an attending then go back for a fellowship. Other than the income difference, what's the biggest con against doing so?

Definitely seeing HPM in the future but not sure exactly when in the future quite yet.... Would appreciate some advice for better direction. Thank you guys!

PS. Love the energy in this thread. Makes me excited about HPM.
Hey great question! Full disclosure- I have been out for a couple of years as an EM attending and am now going into HPM fellowship starting in July. I think it is valuable to practice EM after residency especially if you do not have any concrete plans as to what you want your future practice to look like. Practicing as an EM attending will not only give you confidence (which is so important in our field) but also give you a better idea of what is important to you in your future job. The two years out of residency have taught me that 1. I really do love EM -the pathology,procedures,flow 2. The stress of EM is unsustainable if thats all you do until 50-60. 3. Being home for dinner and sleeping in my bed is important to my wellness. I ultimately want to practice a blend of both specialties and eventually only HPM-but I don’t think I could have made this decision without being an EM attending first. Also it’s so nice to have already saved up money while I solidified my decision to pursue fellowship. Sorry for the grammatical errors. I typed this in a hurry.
 
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@Frazier @WilcoWorld and others…. I’m a community ER doc close to applying, but am torn between palliative and pain. Palliative probably a better fit for me but concerned about dealing with death everyday, plus hung up on the fact I’d be working more to make less. And from some other posts seems the job market is tightening. Would you choose the field again? Any great way to know how to proceed? Will be shadowing soon so hopefully that will help. Thanks
 
I think shadowing is your best way to gain insight on fit. I would 100% chose to enter HPM again. I do make less, but I expect I'll be able to do this for many more years, so financially it'll be a wash.
 
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@Frazier @WilcoWorld and others…. I’m a community ER doc close to applying, but am torn between palliative and pain. Palliative probably a better fit for me but concerned about dealing with death everyday, plus hung up on the fact I’d be working more to make less. And from some other posts seems the job market is tightening. Would you choose the field again? Any great way to know how to proceed? Will be shadowing soon so hopefully that will help. Thanks
Agree with my colleague above. Would absolutely choose the subspecialty again.
It is very different than interventional pain -- despite the fact that you "manage pain" from both fields.
You are correct that with palliative you will work more hours and earn less money. While it would always be nicer to have a larger paycheck regardless of the figure, my time at work in palliative is almost the opposite of EM in every way. It is hard to compare the hourly since they are so different. I would be more burned out doing 1 shift of EM per week than I am working FT in palliative. I imagine it depends on the person.

Indeed there is much death and suffering -- however you will be quite comfortable with it. Also, it is significantly different experience for the physician regarding managing death/notifications/etc. This isn't calling a code of a drowned 3-year-old while mom/dad cry in the corner of resus bay, this isn't delivering the gut-wrenching bad news to a young husband joined by kids when asked "how is my wife?" after a MVC.

I have had hundreds of my hospice/palliative patients die by this point and am quite comfortable with managing them through end-of-life and working with their families along the way. Death in the emergency department is usually much different.

In regard to your shadowing -- good idea. However, keep in mind the field is practiced many different ways. Whatever you experience might not be fully representative of the field (i.e. say the culture of the dept you shadow happens to do only GOC talks).
 
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Agree with my colleague above. Would absolutely choose the subspecialty again.
It is very different than interventional pain -- despite the fact that you "manage pain" from both fields.
You are correct that with palliative you will work more hours and earn less money. While it would always be nicer to have a larger paycheck regardless of the figure, my time at work in palliative is almost the opposite of EM in every way. It is hard to compare the hourly since they are so different. I would be more burned out doing 1 shift of EM per week than I am working FT in palliative. I imagine it depends on the person.

Indeed there is much death and suffering -- however you will be quite comfortable with it. Also, it is significantly different experience for the physician regarding managing death/notifications/etc. This isn't calling a code of a drowned 3-year-old while mom/dad cry in the corner of resus bay, this isn't delivering the gut-wrenching bad news to a young husband joined by kids when asked "how is my wife?" after a MVC.

I have had hundreds of my hospice/palliative patients die by this point and am quite comfortable with managing them through end-of-life and working with their families along the way. Death in the emergency department is usually much different.

In regard to your shadowing -- good idea. However, keep in mind the field is practiced many different ways. Whatever you experience might not be fully representative of the field (i.e. say the culture of the dept you shadow happens to do only GOC talks).
Hi Frazier, I just wanted to commend you on your posts about transitioning from EM to Pall. I know I found the information you provided genuinely useful. I'am actually a 13+ year EM attending starting a HPM fellowship in July 2023. It's been even more reassuring hearing that you seemed to have found the right fit career-wise.
Sorry to say, but my own personal experience with EM has become a dumpster fire. For the sake of our younger colleagues, I truly hope things change for the better - my advice is to band together. We are indispensable in healthcare, and there's no shame in fighting for our worth. Personally, I'm done with EM and and looking forward to a new career endeavor. Happy to discuss my own application journey to those interested, but just wanted to highlight Frazier as I found their posts to be very helpful!
 
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Hi Frazier, I just wanted to commend you on your posts about transitioning from EM to Pall. I know I found the information you provided genuinely useful. I'am actually a 13+ year EM attending starting a HPM fellowship in July 2023. It's been even more reassuring hearing that you seemed to have found the right fit career-wise.
Sorry to say, but my own personal experience with EM has become a dumpster fire. For the sake of our younger colleagues, I truly hope things change for the better - my advice is to band together. We are indispensable in healthcare, and there's no shame in fighting for our worth. Personally, I'm done with EM and and looking forward to a new career endeavor. Happy to discuss my own application journey to those interested, but just wanted to highlight Frazier as I found their posts to be very helpful!

This is awesome news to hear. Thanks for updating us. I am thrilled to hear about your successful new adventure into HPM.

Please consider either adding your experiences with what led you to this subspecialty, or your application/interview experience coming from land of being an EM attending, or how your time in fellowship goes... feel free to add to this thread or instead make a new dedicated thread to your new journey (please be sure to include "EM", "emergency medicine", and "palliative" etc in the thread title for the search engine results). I had gotten many many messages from EM folks about my original posts -- so I have no doubt that your experience would be equally valued by future readers (especially EM folks).

Thanks again.
 
Hi Frazier, I just wanted to commend you on your posts about transitioning from EM to Pall. I know I found the information you provided genuinely useful. I'am actually a 13+ year EM attending starting a HPM fellowship in July 2023. It's been even more reassuring hearing that you seemed to have found the right fit career-wise.
Sorry to say, but my own personal experience with EM has become a dumpster fire. For the sake of our younger colleagues, I truly hope things change for the better - my advice is to band together. We are indispensable in healthcare, and there's no shame in fighting for our worth. Personally, I'm done with EM and and looking forward to a new career endeavor. Happy to discuss my own application journey to those interested, but just wanted to highlight Frazier as I found their posts to be very helpful!
Hi Patonk,

Thanks for posting. I am an HPM fellow and went straight through to fellowship after EM residency. I have yet to practice EM as an attending and struggle with this everyday. I knew pretty early on that I wanted to make the majority of my career HPM-focused once I decided on fellowship, but a huge part of me battles with whether or not I will ever go back to the ED. Part of me misses it and then a huge part of me remembers the "dumpster fire" that it is as you so perfectly stated. Any insight you can share about why you have decided to pursue HPM and leave EM would be helpful/appreciated :)
 
Hi Patonk,

Thanks for posting. I am an HPM fellow and went straight through to fellowship after EM residency. I have yet to practice EM as an attending and struggle with this everyday. I knew pretty early on that I wanted to make the majority of my career HPM-focused once I decided on fellowship, but a huge part of me battles with whether or not I will ever go back to the ED. Part of me misses it and then a huge part of me remembers the "dumpster fire" that it is as you so perfectly stated. Any insight you can share about why you have decided to pursue HPM and leave EM would be helpful/appreciated :)
hi visceral, ha, good on you to have the foresight to do a non-EM fellowship straight out of residency! :shifty:

i think the decision to leave EM has been in the works for the last few years. however, i wanted to try to ensure that i was pursuing an hpm fellowship on its own merit, and not as an "out" of EM per se, or certainly not as the residual of burnout. over the years in em, i realized my value system aligns much more with perceived (personal and patient) quality of life, and shared patient goals, two main facets of hpm.

before i devolve this post into a full-on mimic of my personal statement, ill just say that em feels like a very different field than when i first started as an attending almost 14 years ago. there was more of a general sense that em physicians were valued members of the medical staff. the market was also great as there were far less residencies/job applicants, and less midlevel creep.

not stating anything ground breaking here but the push towards metrics and patient satisfaction has likely sapped our own job satisfaction. i think as self-driven, intelligent people, physicians just want to maintain a certain sense of control and autonomy over our professional lives. in its current state, the practice of em is increasingly more out of our control and the return is just not there anymore for me.

ultimately, my perspective on em has likely changed more radically than the field. i still have many close friends in em who aren't necessarily happy with the job, but not even close to walking away. they still enjoy aspects of patient care, or schedule control, or the money, or the time off. its very much a personal threshold as to how much of em you are willing to withstand, for the expected reward(s).
 
hi visceral, ha, good on you to have the foresight to do a non-EM fellowship straight out of residency! :shifty:

i think the decision to leave EM has been in the works for the last few years. however, i wanted to try to ensure that i was pursuing an hpm fellowship on its own merit, and not as an "out" of EM per se, or certainly not as the residual of burnout. over the years in em, i realized my value system aligns much more with perceived (personal and patient) quality of life, and shared patient goals, two main facets of hpm.

before i devolve this post into a full-on mimic of my personal statement, ill just say that em feels like a very different field than when i first started as an attending almost 14 years ago. there was more of a general sense that em physicians were valued members of the medical staff. the market was also great as there were far less residencies/job applicants, and less midlevel creep.

not stating anything ground breaking here but the push towards metrics and patient satisfaction has likely sapped our own job satisfaction. i think as self-driven, intelligent people, physicians just want to maintain a certain sense of control and autonomy over our professional lives. in its current state, the practice of em is increasingly more out of our control and the return is just not there anymore for me.

ultimately, my perspective on em has likely changed more radically than the field. i still have many close friends in em who aren't necessarily happy with the job, but not even close to walking away. they still enjoy aspects of patient care, or schedule control, or the money, or the time off. its very much a personal threshold as to how much of em you are willing to withstand, for the expected reward(s).
Thank you so much for your insight. Tremendously helpful and I share your feelings about the value of quality of life and importance of shared patient goals. Although I miss the ED daily, I will say that I was never able to fully actualize things like quality of life and shared goals with my patients and now that I am, it’s like night and day; not to mention extremely rewarding. I hope you do choose to pursue an HPM fellowship after all!
 
BWAAAhahhahahaa!
EM is a total dumpster fire these days!

I got completely out of EM right as Covid was hitting, and now do exclusively hospice and love it. But I have a unicorn gig, at least as long as it lasts. I have a freestanding hospice house and do exclusively GIP level care (and occasionally guest-host our big team IDGs to cover for vacations) and act as medical director when our director is on vacation. As I think Frasier and Wilco pointed out, I didn't do a fellowship and basically apprenticed in knowing full well I only wanted to do inpatient stuff since I'm great at critical care and lousy at primary care. I eased in slowly, and eased out of EM equally slowly, doing it over 3-4 years.
Sat for the HMDC boards last summer - or was it summer before? Geez, I don't even remember now.

For the most part, my life is much, much more manageable now. There are bumps in the road, like all things, but again, there's no comparison to the flaming dumpster fire of EM. There's no way I could keep doing it...
 
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BWAAAhahhahahaa!
EM is a total dumpster fire these days!

I got completely out of EM right as Covid was hitting, and now do exclusively hospice and love it. But I have a unicorn gig, at least as long as it lasts. I have a freestanding hospice house and do exclusively GIP level care (and occasionally guest-host our big team IDGs to cover for vacations) and act as medical director when our director is on vacation. As I think Frasier and Wilco pointed out, I didn't do a fellowship and basically apprenticed in knowing full well I only wanted to do inpatient stuff since I'm great at critical care and lousy at primary care. I eased in slowly, and eased out of EM equally slowly, doing it over 3-4 years.
Sat for the HMDC boards last summer - or was it summer before? Geez, I don't even remember now.

For the most part, my life is much, much more manageable now. There are bumps in the road, like all things, but again, there's no comparison to the flaming dumpster fire of EM. There's no way I could keep doing it...
Glad to hear you are happy in your current job! I am also very interested in hospice jobs, but feel like they are so few and far between. How did you end up getting your current job?
 
As an update to this thread, I changed jobs this year. Really enjoyed the people and position at my last institution, so it was a bittersweet pill to swallow. Opportunity opened up in our most desired geographic region, so we took the leap.

Concordant with what I recommend in my other posts, try to find your ideal job straight out of fellowship -- but be prepared to move within 1-2 years as different opportunities open that check off more and more of your boxes. Now that we are in our forever geographic region, there will be no plans to leave. There were no openings here when i finished fellowship -- so it might take you some time, don't be discouraged! Keep an eye on job postings.

My new position doesn't come with an inpatient palliative unit, which I will miss -- however the flipside is that I have no call as a result. I am currently working full time and negotiated the schedule which comes out to 3.5 days per week (the half-day remote from home). Mix of clinic and inpatient consult service. 0-7 patients per day. Salary ~275k, with tiny [but steady] annual increases.

Just putting it our there as further reference point on the opportunities out there and how they can be negotiated.

Good luck.
 
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Thank you so much for sharing, it’s invaluable. Is your new position academic? Do you mind sharing what region? PTO? Would you say that salary/schedule is easy to find in HPM? Thank you!

It is pseudo-academic... visiting residents/fellows rotate with us a couple months total out of the year, but the hospital doesn't have its own programs. I do occasionally still get opportunities to give lectures.

Previous job was on the east coast. Now I'm on the west coast. PTO is about 7 weeks.

Difficulty to find? I would say medium-to-hard, but not impossible. Many places will be flexible, and many will not be.
 
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As an update to this thread, I changed jobs this year. Really enjoyed the people and position at my last institution, so it was a bittersweet pill to swallow. Opportunity opened up in our most desired geographic region, so we took the leap.

Concordant with what I recommend in my other posts, try to find your ideal job straight out of fellowship -- but be prepared to move within 1-2 years as different opportunities open that check off more and more of your boxes. Now that we are in our forever geographic region, there will be no plans to leave. There were no openings here when i finished fellowship -- so it might take you some time, don't be discouraged! Keep an eye on job postings.

My new position doesn't come with an inpatient palliative unit, which I will miss -- however the flipside is that I have no call as a result. I am currently working full time and negotiated the schedule which comes out to 3.5 days per week. Mix of clinic and inpatient consult service. 0-7 patients per day. Salary ~275k, with tiny [but steady] annual increases.

Just putting it our there as further reference point on the opportunities out there and how they can be negotiated.

Good luck.
Hi Frazier, that’s great news! Congratulations on the new position!
 
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As an update to this thread, I changed jobs this year. Really enjoyed the people and position at my last institution, so it was a bittersweet pill to swallow. Opportunity opened up in our most desired geographic region, so we took the leap.

Concordant with what I recommend in my other posts, try to find your ideal job straight out of fellowship -- but be prepared to move within 1-2 years as different opportunities open that check off more and more of your boxes. Now that we are in our forever geographic region, there will be no plans to leave. There were no openings here when i finished fellowship -- so it might take you some time, don't be discouraged! Keep an eye on job postings.

My new position doesn't come with an inpatient palliative unit, which I will miss -- however the flipside is that I have no call as a result. I am currently working full time and negotiated the schedule which comes out to 3.5 days per week. Mix of clinic and inpatient consult service. 0-7 patients per day. Salary ~275k, with tiny [but steady] annual increases.

Just putting it our there as further reference point on the opportunities out there and how they can be negotiated.

Good luck.
 
I am an emergency medicine physician. I have been in practice for 4 years and am applying to HPM fellowships in the next few months. I have been reading your posts for some time and they have been helpful. I am a little nervous being a non traditional applicant especially one from em and I was hoping to know your thoughts what your process was like as an em applicant? The only thing I have on my resume that is HPM specific is basically doing all the capc modules and my practice of “what I call HPM in the ed.” Do most programs want additional experience? Thank you so much!
 
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I am an emergency medicine physician. I have been in practice for 4 years and am applying to HPM fellowships in the next few months. I have been reading your posts for some time and they have been helpful. I am a little nervous being a non traditional applicant especially one from em and I was hoping to know your thoughts what your process was like as an em applicant? The only thing I have on my resume that is HPM specific is basically doing all the capc modules and my practice of “what I call HPM in the ed.” Do most programs want additional experience? Thank you so much!

First off, CONGRATS!

It won't be a problem. You might not match at the ivory palaces, but you need not be at an ivory palace to become an excellent HPM specialist. Aim for an academic center instead of community program, IMO.

You will match assuming your app has no red flags. Even though you dont have a surplus of HPM-related badges and shiny experiences, if you have the story to WHY you are pursuing HPM then you will match.

Make sure it is a good story (not "I want to avoid nights and weekends").

Read the AAHPM primer before interviews to further build up a foundational knowledgebase... that is also about the only prep you would benefit from prior to fellowship, IMO.

What other questions do you have?
 
First off, CONGRATS!

It won't be a problem. You might not match at the ivory palaces, but you need not be at an ivory palace to become an excellent HPM specialist. Aim for an academic center instead of community program, IMO.

You will match assuming your app has no red flags. Even though you dont have a surplus of HPM-related badges and shiny experiences, if you have the story to WHY you are pursuing HPM then you will match.

Make sure it is a good story (not "I want to avoid nights and weekends").

Read the AAHPM primer before interviews to further build up a foundational knowledgebase... that is also about the only prep you would benefit from prior to fellowship, IMO.
What other questions do you have?
Thank you! Why in your opinion academic vs community? Obviously I can glean overall why academic would be better for training. I only say that as I’m from the Philly area and am limited due to family in the number of programs to apply to.
 
Thank you! Why in your opinion academic vs community? Obviously I can glean overall why academic would be better for training. I only say that as I’m from the Philly area and am limited due to family in the number of programs to apply to.

When geographical limitations come into play, then you do what you gotta do. Community in city with your family beats academic program a few states away.

That said, my preference is for the most robust group of teaching physicians, IDT, and pathology for your singular year of fellowship.

Generally, the palliative programs at academic institutions have larger (more diverse) faculty... you might have attendings coming from EM, PMR, Psych, Neuro, etc... vs a smaller community program with a few faculty (which statistically would be, most likely, all IM/FM primary specialty docs).

Since the departments are larger, the IDT will likely be larger with chaplain, SW, nursing, +/- pharmacy, etc. Small community shops are more likely to be running a tight ship.

Academic programs will tend to have heavier didactics/lecture opportunities... if you want to find out when pain grand rounds are, they prob exist at an academic center... less likely at a community shop. Can replace Pain with any specialty/subspecialty. Perhaps you will want to be an expert of palliating H&N cancer, so would want to attend an ENT/Onc lecture on it... you get the idea.

Perhaps you want to do an elective in wound care. More likely to exist at a robust academic center. Etc etc.

The pathology will tend to be more diverse -- as often zebras will get referred to academic centers. You will get the bread and butter anywhere.

Overall, like I alluded to earlier-- you can be a great HPM doc from anywhere... but some places might require more self-teaching/simulation/imagination than others.
 
Thank you! Makes complete sense. Also what is your thought on not having a letter from my current boss/chair? (I don’t think they will write me a good letter not because I have not been a good employee but more so because I don’t think they would understand HPM and why I want to do it).
 
Thank you! Makes complete sense. Also what is your thought on not having a letter from my current boss/chair? (I don’t think they will write me a good letter not because I have not been a good employee but more so because I don’t think they would understand HPM and why I want to do it).

It is vital that you get LOR's from people that can write a high impact letter tailored to HPM.

The people reading your app give not a single damn about your PPH, RVU's, press gainey, critical care capture, etc. They want to know if you will be a good trainee and good HPM doc.

Find people that can attest to your interest in the field, end of life care, family meetings/communication, how you are as a professional and as a person.

I did not get a letter from my Chair/Medical Director... because [similar to you] I didnt feel confident that he would "get it". Things worked out well for me.
 
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I am an emergency medicine physician. I have been in practice for 4 years and am applying to HPM fellowships in the next few months. I have been reading your posts for some time and they have been helpful. I am a little nervous being a non traditional applicant especially one from em and I was hoping to know your thoughts what your process was like as an em applicant? The only thing I have on my resume that is HPM specific is basically doing all the capc modules and my practice of “what I call HPM in the ed.” Do most programs want additional experience? Thank you so much!
EM/HPM attending here. Assuming it's not some huge red flag "non-traditional" history, it could possibly be a strength. And, while EM->HPM is still uncommon, it's far from unheard of and enough programs have had success with EM applicants that there are plenty of places eager to interview EM grads.

If you can present some compelling stories about finding opportunities for Palliative Care in the ED, you'll do very well on interviews.
 
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I agree that academic centers have the advantage that you're more likely to see the really complex symptom management cases at a place with an active oncology presence. However, that will likely be a much smaller part of your HPM practice than will be bread and butter symptom management and goals of care discussions. So it might not be that big of a deal depending on what you do after fellowship.

Along those lines- a big caveat is what you want to do after fellowship. Do you want to work in a community hospital in a state where the only HPM fellowship is at a community hospital? In that case, you may be best served to do fellowship there, where the faculty have connections with your desired future job.
 
EM/HPM attending here. Assuming it's not some huge red flag "non-traditional" history, it could possibly be a strength. And, while EM->HPM is still uncommon, it's far from unheard of and enough programs have had success with EM applicants that there are plenty of places eager to interview EM grads.

If you can present some compelling stories about finding opportunities for Palliative Care in the ED, you'll do very well on interviews.
Thank you for all your responses! Yes I have a very large geriatric, nursing home population and have just been dissatisfied by how these patients are managed in our medical system…has been my drive to incorporate goals of care discussions, symptoms management plans etc into my practice. In addition cannot see myself doing em…just over seeing like 25 patients per shift and being annoyed by most of my patients (obviously not going to talk about that on interviews). HPM is the medicine I want to practice full time.

If you don’t mind me asking where do you practice geographically?
 
Thank you for all your responses! Yes I have a very large geriatric, nursing home population and have just been dissatisfied by how these patients are managed in our medical system…has been my drive to incorporate goals of care discussions, symptoms management plans etc into my practice. In addition cannot see myself doing em…just over seeing like 25 patients per shift and being annoyed by most of my patients (obviously not going to talk about that on interviews). HPM is the medicine I want to practice full time.

If you don’t mind me asking where do you practice geographically?
If you can honestly frame this in a positive way, it'll serve you well on interviews (and I think the honestly part is important, because you don't want to be fooling yourself into pursuing HPM!).

Would it be accurate to say "I have found that it's more fulfilling for me to take more time with fewer patients that I can really get to know than it is to take less time with more patients in the ED setting"? If so, then you could be on the right track.
 
As to where I am - I'm at a university hospital in the midwest in a nice but relatively small city.
 
If you can honestly frame this in a positive way, it'll serve you well on interviews (and I think the honestly part is important, because you don't want to be fooling yourself into pursuing HPM!).

Would it be accurate to say "I have found that it's more fulfilling for me to take more time with fewer patients that I can really get to know than it is to take less time with more patients in the ED setting"? If so, then you could be on the right track.
Absolutely…not just the time but the quality of care that can be provided. Thank you!
 
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Thank you! Makes complete sense. Also what is your thought on not having a letter from my current boss/chair? (I don’t think they will write me a good letter not because I have not been a good employee but more so because I don’t think they would understand HPM and why I want to do it).
It is vital that you get LOR's from people that can write a high impact letter tailored to HPM.

The people reading your app give not a single damn about your PPH, RVU's, press gainey, critical care capture, etc. They want to know if you will be a good trainee and good HPM doc.

Find people that can attest to your interest in the field, end of life care, family meetings/communication, how you are as a professional and as a person.

I did not get a letter from my Chair/Medical Director... because [similar to you] I didnt feel confident that he would "get it". Things worked out well for me.

I was one year less than you when I chose to go after hpm.

I’ve accepted a full time position in hospice, making between 1/2 and 2/3 of what I used to make.

Could not be happier with my decision. Originally planned to do both, but honestly I just don’t miss the Ed anymore. I especially don’t miss intubating 85 yo covid patients, full waiting rooms, and starting a shift knowing full well there wasn’t a f*cking icu bed for 50 miles and that I had 11 hrs left overnight as the only doc in house.

As far as lor, while I can’t say what was eventually submitted, I offered to write a draft for all my colleagues I had write me a letter. The only ones I didn’t write a draft for was from a hpm doc I knew well, and my residency pd who was a friend of mine (after residency).

I included info I thought would reflect me positively: I did give lip service to pph, press gayney, but only to humblebrag that I was a hard worker and had good rapport with patients, and that my numbers were good. I wanted it to be clear I was going towards hospice/palliative, not away from em or being shi*ty at that (despite my comments above I did mostly like that job and occasionally miss it in a Stockholm sort of way). If you do this, would include a positive example of you responding to adverse circumstances, praying nice in sandbox, or a way that you failed but then got back up and showed good qualities. Write about what makes you someone you’d want to work with: I never lied or even exaggerated, I just focused on what I thought would make me valuable, and it worked out.

There is some perception of Ed docs as wanting to “move the meat.” There’s truth to that, it’s an essential skill. But when it comes down to it, we deliver more bad news with less of a relationship than damn near any other specialty. Examples:

“Hi I’m throway134, remember the ct scan? Ya you got the cancer/nodule that is definitely cancer/insert other unexpected finding”

“Hi ms. Jones, I’d cancel that gender reveal party”

“Hi so and sos grandson, bad news about mi maw, she’s in the icu/actively dying/dead”

“They found your husband outside the car”

“You’re having a stroke”

“I don’t think he’s going to live through this hospital stay”

It goes on and on. The reason we have a dark sense of humor is how much of this we do every day. I recommend going for it, and know you’ve got a great background for getting started on this path.
 
I was one year less than you when I chose to go after hpm.

I’ve accepted a full time position in hospice, making between 1/2 and 2/3 of what I used to make.

Could not be happier with my decision. Originally planned to do both, but honestly I just don’t miss the Ed anymore. I especially don’t miss intubating 85 yo covid patients, full waiting rooms, and starting a shift knowing full well there wasn’t a f*cking icu bed for 50 miles and that I had 11 hrs left overnight as the only doc in house.

As far as lor, while I can’t say what was eventually submitted, I offered to write a draft for all my colleagues I had write me a letter. The only ones I didn’t write a draft for was from a hpm doc I knew well, and my residency pd who was a friend of mine (after residency).

I included info I thought would reflect me positively: I did give lip service to pph, press gayney, but only to humblebrag that I was a hard worker and had good rapport with patients, and that my numbers were good. I wanted it to be clear I was going towards hospice/palliative, not away from em or being shi*ty at that (despite my comments above I did mostly like that job and occasionally miss it in a Stockholm sort of way). If you do this, would include a positive example of you responding to adverse circumstances, praying nice in sandbox, or a way that you failed but then got back up and showed good qualities. Write about what makes you someone you’d want to work with: I never lied or even exaggerated, I just focused on what I thought would make me valuable, and it worked out.

There is some perception of Ed docs as wanting to “move the meat.” There’s truth to that, it’s an essential skill. But when it comes down to it, we deliver more bad news with less of a relationship than damn near any other specialty. Examples:

“Hi I’m throway134, remember the ct scan? Ya you got the cancer/nodule that is definitely cancer/insert other unexpected finding”

“Hi ms. Jones, I’d cancel that gender reveal party”

“Hi so and sos grandson, bad news about mi maw, she’s in the icu/actively dying/dead”

“They found your husband outside the car”

“You’re having a stroke”

“I don’t think he’s going to live through this hospital stay”

It goes on and on. The reason we have a dark sense of humor is how much of this we do every day. I recommend going for it, and know you’ve got a great background for getting started on this path.
Great advice! Thank you!
 
Hello

Thank you to Frazier for starting this thread.

Just curious is there any bias to a DO applying to any of these programs? I was just wondering if both being a DO and EM trained/board certified by AOBEM will be a double blow against me?

Thanks
 
Hello

Thank you to Frazier for starting this thread.

Just curious is there any bias to a DO applying to any of these programs? I was just wondering if both being a DO and EM trained/board certified by AOBEM will be a double blow against me?

Thanks
there are places it might be a problem. However you’re better off not matching at places like that anyway.

I doubt it will have much effect (either for em or for do), and certainly won’t prevent a match. As Frazier has often said, focus on the why.

And as wilcoworld points out, make sure it’s a good fit.

This specialty is amazing if you like the work.

But if you don’t genuinely enjoy talking to people, having goals of care discussions, or find meaning in alleviating the suffering of patients that will inevitably die then you are in for a bad time. It can be super rough if it isn’t a good fit.

It will also pay about half to 2/3 what you would make in the Ed.
 
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As an update to this thread, I changed jobs this year. Really enjoyed the people and position at my last institution, so it was a bittersweet pill to swallow. Opportunity opened up in our most desired geographic region, so we took the leap.

Concordant with what I recommend in my other posts, try to find your ideal job straight out of fellowship -- but be prepared to move within 1-2 years as different opportunities open that check off more and more of your boxes. Now that we are in our forever geographic region, there will be no plans to leave. There were no openings here when i finished fellowship -- so it might take you some time, don't be discouraged! Keep an eye on job postings.

My new position doesn't come with an inpatient palliative unit, which I will miss -- however the flipside is that I have no call as a result. I am currently working full time and negotiated the schedule which comes out to 3.5 days per week. Mix of clinic and inpatient consult service. 0-7 patients per day. Salary ~275k, with tiny [but steady] annual increases.

Just putting it our there as further reference point on the opportunities out there and how they can be negotiated.

Good luck.
Such a nice update. Congrats Fraizer! So glad you got the geography AND the 3.5 day workweek. Incredible.

I'm super happy with my 1st attending job so far (I'm between 0.5-1.0 years in). But eventually a 4 day workweek is my dream. I'm making a bit more $ than you but it comes with 4.5 clinical days. Love the team. Love my patients.

I'm finally seeing some more opportunity in a slightly more desirable geography for my family, but it comes with lots of drawbacks: larger volumes, longer hours, less holidays, less PTO, holiday call (currently have no call), without any meaningful concomitant increase in compensation. Bonuses based on quality and production which seems questionable to me, doesn't really align with the overall gestalt of palliative medicine. Truthfully I don't feel too excited about it. Is your job a unicorn? Are some jobs just duds?

I'm leaning toward sticking with the job I love, and waiting until I can upgrade on both the geography AND other aspects of the job.
 
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Great to hear of folks' success stories. Looks like I'm below the mean pay for Palliative practice. Since I love my job & location, I have no intention of changing for now, but it's nice to know that there's opportunity out there!
 
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Such a nice update. Congrats Fraizer! So glad you got the geography AND the 3.5 day workweek. Incredible.

I'm super happy with my 1st attending job so far (I'm between 0.5-1.0 years in). But eventually a 4 day workweek is my dream. I'm making a bit more $ than you but it comes with 4.5 clinical days. Love the team. Love my patients.

I'm finally seeing some more opportunity in a slightly more desirable geography for my family, but it comes with lots of drawbacks: larger volumes, longer hours, less holidays, less PTO, holiday call (currently have no call), without any meaningful concomitant increase in compensation. Bonuses based on quality and production which seems questionable to me, doesn't really align with the overall gestalt of palliative medicine. Truthfully I don't feel too excited about it. Is your job a unicorn? Are some jobs just duds?

I'm leaning toward sticking with the job I love, and waiting until I can upgrade on both the geography AND other aspects of the job.

I agree that being happy with the job, and especially loving a job, should be weighted heavily. It is awesome that you're in a good place!

It is smart to not chase money for the sake of just getting more money. There is another health system in the region that pays >300k, but the week would be 5 days of packed patient schedules. Not worth it for me. If it was all about the $$$ I'd just be a nocturnist EM doc with geoarbitrage.

I don't think it is necessarily a unicorn job universally. For my family it is -- because it has the location we really wanted with a salary that meets our needs on a schedule that satisfies family life. But others might want to be "busier", or more money, or a different city.

I think most people will come across their uniquely-fitted unicorn job if they look long enough and hard enough.

For the future readers: Going to work without dreading going to work is very valuable, so calculate that into your "should I stay or should I go?" equation...

Lastly, yes, some jobs are definitely duds!
 
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I literally feel like I’m in med school again! If I apply to 7 programs should hopefully be enough to match? Hahah
 
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