Email the ASA today about the CNN article.

[SleepIsGood]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Residents and attendings

Please email the ASA today. Take a few seconds out of your busy day and tell them how upset you are about the CNN article. Many of us at our residency have done this already.

We need to tell the ASA that they need to be on the offensive about this one. CNN is a mainstream media outlet and articles like this should be condemned by our society. The writers of this article and the CRNA that made these statements need to be called out and asked to retract their statements.

If you are a paid member of the ASA and donate to the ASA PAC you really should request this.

email for the ASA: [email protected]

 

[jd1572]

The article shows the email address of the author of the article. People can email the author to express opinions as well.

[email protected]

http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news/economy/health_care_doctor_incomes/index.htm?hpt=T2

Below is the part of the article that concerns people:

"From our perspective, we are fairly compensated for the level of responsibility that we shoulder," said Lisa Thiemann, senior director of professional services with the AANA.

"We are at the head of the patient's bed. We deliver anesthesia and we keep the patient safe," said Thiemann, who has been a CRNA for 14 years.

"Once nurses and physicians arrive at anesthesia training, we use the same textbooks and same cases. The training is not too different between the two groups," she said. "We all deliver anesthesia the same way."

 

[alphahelix]

Done! I think every resident and attending have to voice your concerns about this.

I'm a MSIV btw 😀

 

[UTKB]

Done. Another attempt by the militant CRNAs to confuse the public. Shameful.

 

[SleepIsGood]

Done. Another attempt by the militant CRNAs to confuse the public. Shameful.

thanks for the email..i emailed both the ASA and the woman that wrote that article.

 

[countingdays]

thanks for the email..i emailed both the ASA and the woman that wrote that article.

Done. It is shameful that media outlets like CNNMoney provide a platform for AANA propaganda. Every word out of that nurse's mouth was meant to misinform the public and CNNMoney prints it anyway. 👎

 

[anesthesiadoc]

Dear Ms. Kavilanz,
While I share some of your concern about the plight of primary care practitioners, the quote used to conclude your article was significantly more disturbing.
The media's inaccurate, often negative portrayal of the field of anesthesiology seems to get worse with each passing week. In our preoperative clinic, I find myself spending more and more visits correcting media-induced misperceptions of propofol (thanks to Michael Jackson's incompetent "physician"), sedation vs general anesthesia (thanks to ABC/Gray's Anatomy's idiotic portrayal of intraoperative awareness), and now a nurse-anesthetist-driven propaganda equating the training of nurse anesthetists to that of board certified physician anesthesiologists. Assuming the name CNN still stands for "Cable NEWS Network," then you need to differentiate fact from opinion before disseminating misinformation to the public. While nurse anesthesia training may include reading from some of our textbooks, the preparation, understanding of disease processes, and training is far less extensive, less rigorous when compared with process of becoming a board certified anesthesiologist. Ms. Thiemann's implication that, following the medical school years, "the training is not too different between the two groups" is contradicted by the extensive ACGME requirements for graduation from anesthesia residency, including numerous open heart, vascular, and neurosurgical procedures, as well as training in peripheral nerve blocks and invasive monitoring including central venous catheters and pulmonary artery catheters. (This can be found in at http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/downloads/RRC_progReq/040_anesthesiology_07012008_u03102008.pdf) Reviewing the graduation requirements for nurse anesthetist training (http://www.aana.com/outlines.aspx) demonstrates a comparative gap that likely won't be bridged even by years of experience after receiving their certification.
In many lower impact cases, with young, healthy patients, the advanced skills of anesthesiologists relative to their nurse anesthetist counterparts may not need to be utilized. However, as it is impossible to predict certain unexpected perioperative complications even in the healthiest of patients, having a board certified physician anesthesiologist immediately available to employ these critical thinking skills and advanced techniques such as transesophageal echocardiography to reveal and differentially treat sudden cardiovascular collapse. Articles cited by the AANA to equate nurse anesthesia care and physician anesthesiologist care often do not include the sickest patients, who are most often treated academic medical centers where their care is overseen by board certified physician anesthesiologists. A proper case-control study is less likely to be performed in this patient population, as common sense dictates that few patients with severe comorbidities would knowingly sign up themselves or their loved ones to be randomized to a physician-free anesthetic for a complex, high acuity operation.
I bring this up not to argue against the significant contribution that many excellent nurse anesthetists make in operating rooms every day. However, it is important for the public to be aware of how physician anesthesiologists offer a unique, potentially life saving service, both as solo practitioners and as the physician supervisors of advanced practice nurses in the anesthesia care team practice model.
Thank you for your time,

XXXXXXX

 

[md2010sgu]

Awesome letter... 👍👍👍totally professional, not insulting, and yet you made your point well (especially with the ACGME case reqs). Unfortunately, this lady will probably only read about 10% of emails/letters since she probably got over 1,000. Let's hope yours is that 10% 👍

 

[Stitch]

Did you read the comments at the bottom? Check this one out:

A family or primary care doctor goes through 4 years of medical school and 3 years of family practice/primary care residency typically. A CRNA goes through 4 years of nursing school, then must work in critical care nursing for AT LEAST 1 year, and then attends a 2-3 year CRNA program. If anything, the CRNA has more training. Yes, you must have a bachelor's degree to get into medical school... but it can be in anything, so I would not say that it constitutes as medical training.

Truly frightening how little people think of a physician's training!

 

[ProRealDoc]

I sent my reply as well.

 

[md2010sgu]

Did you read the comments at the bottom? Check this one out:



Truly frightening how little people think of a physician's training!

Hey where was that comment??? I can't see the comments... I can't believe that idiot said something like that. Does he know that the 4 year BSN degree only has 18 months worth of medical knowledge/clinical training???!?! WTF...I know b/c my ex-gf was in a BSN program...

 

[MDInvestor]

Nice letter. In the end, you need to keep funding the educational/awareness programs that ASA partakes in.

JOIN ASA and Contribute time or $$$

 

[anesthesiadoc]

Did anybody get a response yet? (from CNN or the ASA?) I didn't. 🙁

Residents and attendings

Please email the ASA today. Take a few seconds out of your busy day and tell them how upset you are about the CNN article. Many of us at our residency have done this already.

We need to tell the ASA that they need to be on the offensive about this one. CNN is a mainstream media outlet and articles like this should be condemned by our society. The writers of this article and the CRNA that made these statements need to be called out and asked to retract their statements.

If you are a paid member of the ASA and donate to the ASA PAC you really should request this.

email for the ASA: [email protected]

 

[Coastie]

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/16/anesthesia.debate/index.html

"Dr. Carol Bannister, an anesthesiologist, is certain going it alone is not as safe. She first trained as a nurse anesthetist, which requires a nursing degree and two years of graduate anesthesia training.

"Many times I felt very much on thin ice," she said.

So she went through eight years of medical school.

"Knowing what I know now, it frightens me actually to think about that," she said."

 

[Apollyon]

What I've learned (all anecdote, no data, individual experience) is that advanced-practice nurses don't know what they don't know. PAs know where their property line is, and don't cross it.

 

[md2010sgu]

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/05/16/anesthesia.debate/index.html

"Dr. Carol Bannister, an anesthesiologist, is certain going it alone is not as safe. She first trained as a nurse anesthetist, which requires a nursing degree and two years of graduate anesthesia training.

"Many times I felt very much on thin ice," she said.

So she went through eight years of medical school.

"Knowing what I know now, it frightens me actually to think about that," she said."

sweet find

 

[Taurus]

If I were a CRNA, this article would make me nervous. It just raises your profile to the bean counters in Washington. You become a target for them to whack. Let's hope that they target just the CRNA's and not anesthesiologists.

Did people pick up on the trend too?

Primary care doctors were offered an average base salary of $173,000 in 2009 compared to an average base salary of $189,000 offered to certified nurse anesthetists, or CRNAs, according to the latest numbers from Merritt Hawkins & Associates, a physician recruiting and consulting firm.

And the firm's projections for 2010 indicate that the average base salary for family physicians will be about $178,000 compared to $186,000 for CRNAs.​

Is this the beginning of something? We'll see.

 

[anesthesia2011]

I will never forget shadowing as a first year...the md got a page so she told me to hang out with a crna doing a ent case, "hes great he's been here 17 years". I had just finished acid/base in physio so i was asking BASIC questions about that stuff in addition to some pulm stuff....basically i got the impression that he knows what he needs to intubate, sedate and wake up the patient, anything more than that is beyond them and they are completely ignorant of what they dont know.

Fast forward two years, im shadowing a gas doc in first year of practice...his case was delayed so we went into another room so i cud get a chance to intubate....the case was gonna go for like 7 hours, as a largely incompetent third year i realized pt was going to need an a-line, did the crna managing the case even think about it? no. so in comes the surgeon who says we need an a-line, the crna (whose another so called veteran) u can immeditely tell is out of her comfort zone. she tries three times, can't get it. my attending says u mind if i try, she says u can try but im gonna see if we can get one from the feet cuz i doutb ull get it in the hands its impossible. he gets it on the first try.

idk how much is luck and how much is skill...but from the handful of experiences ive had iwth crna's, im def not impressed and wud not my anesthesia managed by one.

 

[UTKB]

Dear Member,

Update on ASA Communications with CNN Money Reporter

Parija Kavilanz' article, Some nurses paid more than family doctors <http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news/economy/health_care_doctor_incomes/index.htm> set off a major social media as well as ASA membership response since it ran March 11.

ASA is working with the reporter and delivered the following messages

We wanted to let you know that ASA has spoken to Ms. Kavilanz about our concerns with the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists' (AANA) spokesperson, Lisa Thiemann's quotes. We told Ms. Kavilanz that ASA is concerned about Ms. Thiemann's comments as it may mislead the public that nurses are as highly trained professionals as physicians and the opposite is true.


Additionally, ASA explained to the reporter that while there's a lot of discussion around transparency in health care these days, ASA members felt the CRNA's comments were even more concerning. The public deserves to understand that CRNAs are highly trained nurse professionals. However, the highest trained anesthesia team leaders are the physician anesthesiologists. It is critical that CRNAs are appropriately representing their training as nurses. There is a big difference between the training of a physician and nurse.

Next steps

Dr. Hannenberg will speak with the reporter next week about the broader issues anesthesiologists face in the current health care environment. The reporter asked for this call and we take this as a positive sign.

It is important for members to keep in mind that Ms. Kavilanz was reporting the financial side of this story and was not taking a quality of care angle. Dr. Hannenberg will reinforce the critical role a physician anesthesiologist plays on an anesthesia treatment team during the interview next week.


Please feel free to send any additional questions and comments to me. I also invite you to pass this email along to your colleagues.

Thank you,

Dawn

 

[SleepIsGood]

Dear Member,

Update on ASA Communications with CNN Money Reporter

Parija Kavilanz’ article, Some nurses paid more than family doctors <http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news/economy/health_care_doctor_incomes/index.htm> set off a major social media as well as ASA membership response since it ran March 11.

ASA is working with the reporter and delivered the following messages

We wanted to let you know that ASA has spoken to Ms. Kavilanz about our concerns with the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists’ (AANA) spokesperson, Lisa Thiemann’s quotes. We told Ms. Kavilanz that ASA is concerned about Ms. Thiemann’s comments as it may mislead the public that nurses are as highly trained professionals as physicians and the opposite is true.


Additionally, ASA explained to the reporter that while there’s a lot of discussion around transparency in health care these days, ASA members felt the CRNA’s comments were even more concerning. The public deserves to understand that CRNAs are highly trained nurse professionals. However, the highest trained anesthesia team leaders are the physician anesthesiologists. It is critical that CRNAs are appropriately representing their training as nurses. There is a big difference between the training of a physician and nurse.

Next steps

Dr. Hannenberg will speak with the reporter next week about the broader issues anesthesiologists face in the current health care environment. The reporter asked for this call and we take this as a positive sign.

It is important for members to keep in mind that Ms. Kavilanz was reporting the financial side of this story and was not taking a quality of care angle. Dr. Hannenberg will reinforce the critical role a physician anesthesiologist plays on an anesthesia treatment team during the interview next week.


Please feel free to send any additional questions and comments to me. I also invite you to pass this email along to your colleagues.

Thank you,

Dawn

great job everyone!

 

[sebsvenmdc]

Mr. Bhatnagar,

I find your article disturbingly inaccurate regarding the training between CRNAs and anesthesiologists. You have a massive misunderstanding of the difficulty and effort required to do well in medical school. CRNAs are not competing with the rigorous students that are my classmates in medical school. The MCAT, the types of grades required to be admitted to medical school, and the rigorous nature of undergraduate education required for medical school admission compared with that of a nursing institution - albeit a specialized nursing institution - are vastly discrepant. It's insulting to blur this distinction. Differences in clinical experience between these parties are quickly resolved, but the theoretical and educational differences are vast. I suggest that you explore some common testing requirements such as the USMLE Step 1-3 before asserting that requirements are similar.

Sincerely,
------------, MSIII

 

[DScully]

Dear Member,

Update on ASA Communications with CNN Money Reporter

Parija Kavilanz’ article, Some nurses paid more than family doctors <http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news/economy/health_care_doctor_incomes/index.htm> set off a major social media as well as ASA membership response since it ran March 11.

ASA is working with the reporter and delivered the following messages

We wanted to let you know that ASA has spoken to Ms. Kavilanz about our concerns with the American Association of Nurse Anesthetists’ (AANA) spokesperson, Lisa Thiemann’s quotes. We told Ms. Kavilanz that ASA is concerned about Ms. Thiemann’s comments as it may mislead the public that nurses are as highly trained professionals as physicians and the opposite is true.


Additionally, ASA explained to the reporter that while there’s a lot of discussion around transparency in health care these days, ASA members felt the CRNA’s comments were even more concerning. The public deserves to understand that CRNAs are highly trained nurse professionals. However, the highest trained anesthesia team leaders are the physician anesthesiologists. It is critical that CRNAs are appropriately representing their training as nurses. There is a big difference between the training of a physician and nurse.

Next steps

Dr. Hannenberg will speak with the reporter next week about the broader issues anesthesiologists face in the current health care environment. The reporter asked for this call and we take this as a positive sign.

It is important for members to keep in mind that Ms. Kavilanz was reporting the financial side of this story and was not taking a quality of care angle. Dr. Hannenberg will reinforce the critical role a physician anesthesiologist plays on an anesthesia treatment team during the interview next week.


Please feel free to send any additional questions and comments to me. I also invite you to pass this email along to your colleagues.

Thank you,

Dawn

👍 👍 👍

 

[fastosprintini]

[deleted by pgg]

😴 don't feed the troll....
fasto

 

[pgg]

😴 don't feed the troll....

Dont' quote them and immortalize their nonsense in your own posts. 🙂

 

[Gern Blansten]

.

Delete post, ban user.