Embelishing about EC

[Tanner82]

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Whats the deal with emelishing about extracurriculars? I'm not saying totally make up some bogus things but stretching the truth a little. For example saying 10 hours/week when you actually worked 6 or so.... just wondering... to me its not worth it but I know some people who plan on getting away with it.....

 

[USArmyDoc]

Well your example is pretty harmless and I dout they care whether it is 6 or 10 hours. However, its not worth it.

 

[jebus]

Why stop at 10, why not 15? But why 'embellish' and "extend" and "amplify" when you can just 'invent' (these are great euphemisms for lying, by the way, they're so positive. I love your positivity!) another shadowing experience. I mean, hell, 10 hours of shadowing a physician that no one has ever heard of? Who is going to care about that? As long as we're doing that, let's say it was only 20 hours. 20 hours, you spend more time than that sleeping in just 3 days!
I mean, "embellishing" is no worse than saying something like "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!" Wasn't that just an embellishment? Brownie was doing a job, why not embellish it to say heck? 4 letters, 4 hours, it's not much. And besides, that worked out well, didn't it? It was so positive, too!

 

[Tanner82]

Why stop at 10, why not 15? But why 'embellish' and "extend" and "amplify" when you can just 'invent' (these are great euphemisms for lying, by the way, they're so positive. I love your positivity!) another shadowing experience. I mean, hell, 10 hours of shadowing a physician that no one has ever heard of? Who is going to care about that? As long as we're doing that, let's say it was only 20 hours. 20 hours, you spend more time than that sleeping in just 3 days!
I mean, "embellishing" is no worse than saying something like "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!" Wasn't that just an embellishment? Brownie was doing a job, why not embellish it to say heck? 4 letters, 4 hours, it's not much. And besides, that worked out well, didn't it? It was so positive, too!

ok, ok, ok.... regardless of what you call it "LYING ABOUT EC" or "EMBELLISHING ABOUT EC".... ??

 

[NunoBR]

I dont believe in embelishing the truth when it comes to the time you spent there, because that is something that can be easily checked if they want to.
I Would NOT do it.
If it is discovered it could severely hurt your chances because, as I am sure you know, it is unethical.
However, what you can do is HIGHLIGHT THE POSITIVE on your ECs.
Dont focus on how much or how long you did something, but What you did.
What kind of impact it had, how much and what did you learn, how can you apply this exp. towards your med education.
Now, THAT is what is really important.
I think too often people focus on time.
So who would you find more interesting, someone who worked 10h a week for a six months at a hosp doing scut work or someone who worked 3h for 3 months and had all these great oppts with patient contact and physician interaction and had great stories to tell?
THINK ABOUT IT.
Bottom line is, focus on what was positive and meaningful about your EC and leave the rest behind.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I dont believe in embelishing the truth when it comes to the time you spent there, because that is something that can be easily checked if they want to.
I Would NOT do it.
If it is discovered it could severely hurt your chances because, as I am sure you know, it is unethical.
However, what you can do is HIGHLIGHT THE POSITIVE on your ECs.
Dont focus on how much or how long you did something, but What you did.
What kind of impact it had, how much and what did you learn, how can you apply this exp. towards your med education.
Now, THAT is what is really important.
I think too often people focus on time.
So who would you find more interesting, someone who worked 10h a week for a six months at a hosp doing scut work or someone who worked 3h for 3 months and had all these great oppts with patient contact and physician interaction and had great stories to tell?
THINK ABOUT IT.
Bottom line is, focus on what was positive and meaningful about your EC and leave the rest behind.

I agree with this. It was much better than the answer the above poster gave. Yea, the one who was on his soapbox the whole time (in case you didn't know). Either way, they are both right but no need to attack him just give him your opinion. 🙄

 

[mtDNA]

The thing that bothers me the most about this EC stuff is that med schools weigh it very heavily, but don't bother to verify any of it. I have been keeping tabs with EVERYONE who I listed as a contact on my AMCAS, and NONE of them have been contacted by any med schools, or AAMC. I have interviewed at 5 different schools. The reason I wish that they would check is because it would be so easy for someone to lie on the AMCAS, and nobody would ever figure it out. Seriously, I bet there is more dishonesty in people's AMCAS than any of us can imagine. I was completely honest on mine, but I do not feel rewarded for it.
I wonder how many people with lower stats than me were accepted because they embellished/lied on AMCAS....

 

[C.P. Jones]

The thing that bothers me the most about this EC stuff is that med schools weigh it very heavily, but don't bother to verify any of it. I have been keeping tabs with EVERYONE who I listed as a contact on my AMCAS, and NONE of them have been contacted by any med schools, or AAMC. I have interviewed at 5 different schools. The reason I wish that they would check is because it would be so easy for someone to lie on the AMCAS, and nobody would ever figure it out. Seriously, I bet there is more dishonesty in people's AMCAS than any of us can imagine. I was completely honest on mine, but I do not feel rewarded for it.
I wonder how many people with lower stats than me were accepted because they embellished/lied on AMCAS....

maybe schools do spot checks, especially when something seems a bit out of the ordinary.....kinda like the IRS........but then again, i think it's easier for the IRS to find a problem since anyone can make up an EC and make it sound believable

 

[snobored18]

The thing that bothers me the most about this EC stuff is that med schools weigh it very heavily, but don't bother to verify any of it. I have been keeping tabs with EVERYONE who I listed as a contact on my AMCAS, and NONE of them have been contacted by any med schools, or AAMC. I have interviewed at 5 different schools. The reason I wish that they would check is because it would be so easy for someone to lie on the AMCAS, and nobody would ever figure it out. Seriously, I bet there is more dishonesty in people's AMCAS than any of us can imagine. I was completely honest on mine, but I do not feel rewarded for it.
I wonder how many people with lower stats than me were accepted because they embellished/lied on AMCAS....

I completely agree it would be great if the references where checked...but wow think about how much time it would take to check 15 refs for each person and how pissed of some profs/advisors would start to get (like the guy who runs my institutions shadowing/preceptorship program...damn). I think a better way to screen is to just talk about stuff in interviews that might seem a little unrealistic...I mean I think everyone puts their activities through the Bill O'Reilly "spin zone" so it looks as best as possible, but there is a difference between focusing on the positives and flat out making up activities. If you probe someone on something you can figure out maybe they are are full of $hit.

 

[NapeSpikes]

The thing that bothers me the most about this EC stuff is that med schools weigh it very heavily, but don't bother to verify any of it. I have been keeping tabs with EVERYONE who I listed as a contact on my AMCAS, and NONE of them have been contacted by any med schools, or AAMC. I have interviewed at 5 different schools. The reason I wish that they would check is because it would be so easy for someone to lie on the AMCAS, and nobody would ever figure it out. Seriously, I bet there is more dishonesty in people's AMCAS than any of us can imagine. I was completely honest on mine, but I do not feel rewarded for it.
I wonder how many people with lower stats than me were accepted because they embellished/lied on AMCAS....

So you were honest and got five interviews. Be happy!!! Why spend all that time worrying about what others may or may not be doing?

 

[LizzyM]

The thing that bothers me the most about this EC stuff is that med schools weigh it very heavily, but don't bother to verify any of it. I have been keeping tabs with EVERYONE who I listed as a contact on my AMCAS, and NONE of them have been contacted by any med schools, or AAMC. I have interviewed at 5 different schools. The reason I wish that they would check is because it would be so easy for someone to lie on the AMCAS, and nobody would ever figure it out. Seriously, I bet there is more dishonesty in people's AMCAS than any of us can imagine. I was completely honest on mine, but I do not feel rewarded for it.
I wonder how many people with lower stats than me were accepted because they embellished/lied on AMCAS....

Don't underestimate the ability of adcom members to sniff out B.S. If the ECs seem embellished, or if LORs aren't there to back up major ECs (such as a significant time commitment in a lab) then doubts set in and most times, those applicants won't get an interview (if >85% of the applicants don't get interviews, how do you think we decide who shouldn't get one?) One of my pet peeves is applicants who claim to have done something (such as working at summer camp) 168 hrs/wk.

If you do get an interview, the interviewer may pick any EC and ask you questions about it. If you don't seem to know as much about something as someone who supposedly did it for 6 hours/wk would know, the interviewer may comment on this in the write-up which is read by the adcom before a final decision is made.

Anyone thinking of this: Don't take a chance.

 

[Anastasis]

Lizzy, I have a question if you don't mind answering:
Since I'm a nontrad, alot of the people who I worked with on my extracircs in college have moved on and I don't have a way to readily get ahold of them. Do adcoms really want a contact number/address/email? How do they look at extracircs from a few years ago?

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy, I have a question if you don't mind answering:
Since I'm a nontrad, alot of the people who I worked with on my extracircs in college have moved on and I don't have a way to readily get ahold of them. Do adcoms really want a contact number/address/email? How do they look at extracircs from a few years ago?

Many applicants leave the name/contact number etc blank if there isn't anyone who one might contact. Sometimes, a name will be listed with "(no longer at Big State University; graduated)" after it. No big deal, IMHO. I've never heard of anyone contacting anyone. If doubts are raised, it will not be in your favor, so fill it out best you can to avoid doubts.

 

[LizzyM]

How do they look at extracircs from a few years ago?

I, for one, like to see some ECs from college. That lets me know that the applicant wasn't "all work/no play" as a college student. Or maybe the student was "school work/work-work", paying one's way through school. That's helpful to know, too. And seeing some service activities during the college years and beyond is indicative of a person who has been engaged in making the world a better place. That's always nice to see in an application.

Good luck!

 

[Anastasis]

I, for one, like to see some ECs from college. That lets me know that the applicant wasn't "all work/no play" as a college student. Or maybe the student was "school work/work-work", paying one's way through school. That's helpful to know, too. And seeing some service activities during the college years and beyond is indicative of a person who has been engaged in making the world a better place. That's always nice to see in an application.

Good luck!

Wow! Thanks so much for the quick reply. You really make me feel a bit better about everything.

I have another question now (sorry to be annoying).
I spent a year abroad doing "mission" work through my church. How should I approach that in my interview if they ask about it? Most of the work was secular (it was in the middle of a religious conflict so it had to be) so in that way it was no different than any other volunteer work, but some wasn't so secular. I guess to generalize this, do you have any advice about whether to list religious extracircs or how to characterize them?

 

[Rafa]

The annoying aspect occurs when you have an EC that, by its nature, is nigh impossible to verify. For example, if you've played the bagpipes consistently for six years, and you list that as an EC, you might be hard-pressed to find a reference, other than a friend or a family member, since it isn't the kind of instrument people join college orchestras to play.

 

[LizzyM]

The annoying aspect occurs when you have an EC that, by its nature, is nigh impossible to verify. For example, if you've played the bagpipes consistently for six years, and you list that as an EC, you might be hard-pressed to find a reference, other than a friend or a family member, since it isn't the kind of instrument people join college orchestras to play.

I will refrain from the bagpipe jokes that come to mind. 😉

Here's what I see this all the time with musicians, artists, writers (novelists): just list the activity and leave the rest blank. No biggie.

 

[LizzyM]

I spent a year abroad doing "mission" work through my church. How should I approach that in my interview if they ask about it? Most of the work was secular (it was in the middle of a religious conflict so it had to be) so in that way it was no different than any other volunteer work, but some wasn't so secular. I guess to generalize this, do you have any advice about whether to list religious extracircs or how to characterize them?

Mission work is not uncommon. A year abroad is a good EC because you were exposed to life in another country, learned about another culture, etc. Other religious ECs are okay too although, as with any EC, you should avoid describing every blessed detail on the AMCAS. (I've seen blow by blow accounts of 2 hours of setting up & running Sunday school -- we basically know what sort of tasks are required for religious services).

A good interviewer is going to try to steer away from discussions of religion. However, the interviewer may be curious about your impressions of the country you were living in, particularly if it was a "hot spot". I might say, "I see that you lived in ____ for a year. What was that like?" An open-ended question like that is a good one to get a candidate talking; it helps us see what makes you tick. Or I might ask if you lived on the coast or in the mountains (or city/rural) and ask about how much of an adjustment it was coming from --wherever you're from. Again, its not about religion, it is about how you adjust to different circumstances, and how comfortable you are in a conversation on issues that should be pretty low-stress for you.

 

[Rafa]

I will refrain from the bagpipe jokes that come to mind. 😉

Here's what I see this all the time with musicians, artists, writers (novelists): just list the activity and leave the rest blank. No biggie.

So people don't necessarily describe these ECs or give contact numbers, etc in the space provided? Wow.

 

[adcomm]

Don't underestimate the ability of adcom members to sniff out B.S.

yes, yes, yes.

6 vs 10 is stupid anyway. either it's a decent committment or it's not. 6h a week for 6 months is the same as 10h/week in my eyes.

 

[riceman04]

The thing that bothers me the most about this EC stuff is that med schools weigh it very heavily, but don't bother to verify any of it. I have been keeping tabs with EVERYONE who I listed as a contact on my AMCAS, and NONE of them have been contacted by any med schools, or AAMC. I have interviewed at 5 different schools. The reason I wish that they would check is because it would be so easy for someone to lie on the AMCAS, and nobody would ever figure it out. Seriously, I bet there is more dishonesty in people's AMCAS than any of us can imagine. I was completely honest on mine, but I do not feel rewarded for it.
I wonder how many people with lower stats than me were accepted because they embellished/lied on AMCAS....

😴 😴
stop crying...probably not many. It is probably very easy for most adcoms to determine one's involvement by simply asking them specific questions about the EC's they listed.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

This topic comes up like 35 times every year. Bottom line is, the whole things on the honor system. If people can feel comfortable knowing you bent the truth or flat out made something up, then hey, its their problem. Its not advisable for the reasons mentioned above. But many people do it, and get away with it every year. No amount of whining will change that. Brow beating people on an internet message board isn't going to change their moral fiber.

The only time a school may check is if you write something down, go to the interview, and its clear that you were fabricating something.

 

[andre4000]

.

 

[andre4000]

Why stop at 10, why not 15? But why 'embellish' and "extend" and "amplify" when you can just 'invent' (these are great euphemisms for lying, by the way, they're so positive. I love your positivity!) another shadowing experience. I mean, hell, 10 hours of shadowing a physician that no one has ever heard of? Who is going to care about that? As long as we're doing that, let's say it was only 20 hours. 20 hours, you spend more time than that sleeping in just 3 days!
I mean, "embellishing" is no worse than saying something like "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!" Wasn't that just an embellishment? Brownie was doing a job, why not embellish it to say heck? 4 letters, 4 hours, it's not much. And besides, that worked out well, didn't it? It was so positive, too!

It's actually seven letters d**khead.

 

[45408]

It's actually seven letters d**khead.

sounds like he's saying that "heck" is four letters, homes

 

[mtDNA]

😴 😴
stop crying...probably not many. It is probably very easy for most adcoms to determine one's involvement by simply asking them specific questions about the EC's they listed.

expressing my dissproval for a part of the admissions process does not mean that I am crying about it. I am just pointing out a weakness in the process that I have observed. I strongly disagree with your assumption that there are probably not many people who lie/exaggerate on their amcas. Isn't it true that lots of people lie/embelish their resume? Doesn't this seem analogous? I also disagree with the assumption that it is easy for adcoms to sniff out liars. There are some very good liars out there. Also, many interviewers are pretty laid back, and they allow applicants to talk freely about their activities. It would be hard to catch a lie with this format.
I just think that some of my references should have been contacted. The fact that nobody thought it necessary to contact any of them seems strange in light of how much weight is placed on ECs.

 

[Rafa]

I think his point was that spending time worrying about other people's embellishments is about as useful (or character-building) as worrying about 'stupid pre-meds who are only going into medicine for the money' getting into "your" schools. It does you nothing. That doesn't make bad things right, but if you'd really like to change something you perceive as an unfair advantage, then A.) do something about it, or B.) go the extra mile in your ECs to make yourself 'stand out' further, if you think that would make all the difference. But simply complaining about other people's EC-related misdeeds on an online message board seems like a case of the pre-med whinies. And no one but the dairy farmer likes a bunch of whinies.

 

[riceman04]

I think his point was that spending time worrying about other people's embellishments is about as useful (or character-building) as worrying about 'stupid pre-meds who are only going into medicine for the money' getting into "your" schools. It does you nothing. That doesn't make bad things right, but if you'd really like to change something you perceive as an unfair advantage, then A.) do something about it, or B.) go the extra mile in your ECs to make yourself 'stand out' further, if you think that would make all the difference. But simply complaining about other people's EC-related misdeeds on an online message board seems like a case of the pre-med whinies. And no one but the dairy farmer likes a bunch of whinies.

Thank you very much for breaking it down for me.
🙂