Emergent blood transfusion

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AnesThrowaway

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Assume you have a G5P4 with a previously undiagnosed placenta percreta. She has not had routine prenatal care. She presents urgently to L&D in labor and the OB/GYN calls for a stat C-section. You send a type/screen/cross and proceed to the OR. Intraoperatively, she begins to bleed and sag. You call for blood and the blood bank tells you the patient is A+ but they have detected antibodies on screen. The donor samples they have crossed so far have all been positive and the risk of an incompatibility reaction is high.

The patient is becoming more and more unstable.

Would you:
A. Give type-specific blood from a donor they have not yet crossed and take the risk of incompatibility in the setting of massive bleeding; recognizing that it is unlikely in the setting of a percreta that surgical bleeding control can be quickly achieved.

B. Would you treat this patient somewhat similarly to a Jehovah’s Witness and administer fluids, pressors, TXA, albumin, recombinant factors, etc. and attempt to reduce further blood loss to avoid incompatibility while a suitable donor continues to be searched for. What would be your endpoint of giving up this strategy and giving blood.

C. Other?
 
O-

And get a real surgeon in there.

Why would O- blood be better than type-specific in a patient who’s type is known?

While O- blood does not express A, B or Rh antigens; it still confers a risk for hemolytic reactions with antibodies (as in this patient above) to minor antigens, does it not?

 
This is a hard one.

I would have the blood bank crossmatch every A and O bags they have until they find one with a low risk of incompatibility reaction.

In the meanwhile, I would treat the patient as a Jehovah's witness.

If the bleeding became truly life-threatening (as in transfuse or die/produce end-organ injury), and I still wouldn't have a transfusable unit from the blood bank, I would transfuse the emergency O- from the fridge, after pre-treatment with steroids etc.
 
This is a hard one.

I would have the blood bank crossmatch every A and O bags they have until they find one with a low risk of incompatibility reaction.

In the meanwhile, I would treat the patient as a Jehovah's witness.

If the bleeding became truly life-threatening (as in transfuse or die/produce end-organ injury), and I still wouldn't have a transfusable unit from the blood bank, I would transfuse the emergency O- from the fridge, after pre-treatment with steroids etc.
why O-? Pt is known as A+. O- plasma has anti-A antibody which can lead to some degree of hemolysis against pt's A RBC.
 
Why is it a stat c section? Was the percreta diagnosed before starting? Percreting to what? If the mom is stable and the patient was at that point known to be a percreta, i am not sure i would have rolled back without a general surgeon and blood available even if the baby’s heart rate was down. TXA to all post partum hemhorrages. EBL 500 vaginal. 1000 c section.
 
why O-? Pt is known as A+. O- plasma has anti-A which can lead to some degree of hemolysis against pt's A RBC.
Because the O- would be immediately available and the only thing I have, unless the blood bank figures out something better by then. It's a matter of risks vs benefits (patient dies or has brain injury vs getting away with a minor transfusion reaction). Obviously, I would let the blood bank know about my plan the moment they would tell me they have no units I could use.
 
Because the O- would be immediately available and the only thing I have, unless the blood bank figures out something better by then. It's a matter of risks vs benefits (patient dies or has brain injury vs getting away with a minor transfusion reaction). Obviously, I would let the blood bank know about my plan the moment they would tell me they have no units I could use.

Sure, start with O- "trauma blood" then can go type specific later, it's fine.

As for OPs question, I would transfuse as necessary and deal with consequences later. Maybe what this patient needs is a hysterectomy, not mucking around by the obgyn
 
Because the O- would be immediately available and the only thing I have, unless the blood bank figures out something better by then. It's a matter of risks vs benefits (patient dies or has brain injury vs getting away with a minor transfusion reaction). Obviously, I would let the blood bank know about my plan the moment they would tell me they have no units I could use.
blood bank has already crossed some blood. They sure should have some A+ immediately available. I agree with you to choose the one with least incompatibility.
 
blood bank has already crossed some blood. They sure should have some A+ immediately available. I agree with you to choose the one with least incompatibility.

The cross was positive. I wouldn’t use the blood that was already crossed. I would ask for a type-specific uncrossed unit as that would have a lower risk of incompatibility as compared to the already crossed blood that was shown to be positive.
 
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What’s starting Hct? I imagine this hospital doesn’t have cell salvage?

I think this is a real discussion with OB. Quickly. “Hey look, we don’t have compatible blood, therefore maybe consider a lifesaving hyst while I temporize but when hemodynamics go to crap I’m going to be forced to give potentially incompatible blood.”

Not a good scenario but I think I’d fight transfusion reaction rather than let a patient, especially a young mother, bleed out.
 
What’s starting Hct? I imagine this hospital doesn’t have cell salvage?

I think this is a real discussion with OB. Quickly. “Hey look, we don’t have compatible blood, therefore maybe consider a lifesaving hyst while I temporize but when hemodynamics go to crap I’m going to be forced to give potentially incompatible blood.”

Not a good scenario but I think I’d fight transfusion reaction rather than let a patient, especially a young mother, bleed out.

The few Percretas I’ve done, hysterectomy was planned from the start, not a rescue. And I have still ended up transfusing dozens of units of blood products during it.
 
Agree with Narcotics999, if there is significant bleeding then I’d want blood sent up immediately. You need to talk o the pathologist and give the units with the lowest chance of havin a reaction based on the antibody. Some minor antigens can be life threatening (kidd is the only one I can remember), but others that don’t fix complement may not be as dangerous. The pathologist is the expert who can tell you what will be the lowest risk blood group to transfuse against.
 
Good discussion.

Would anyone here hesitate to give type specific FFP while waiting for packed cells? How about platelets?

I would think that both of those would be much lower risk, assuming the Abs are just against red cell antigens, but please educate me if I’m mistaken. Obviously both plasma and platelets would just be a temporizing measure, but arguably better than straight albumin or crystalloid in a life threatening exsanguination
 
O-

And get a real surgeon in there.

Yes. Treat it as you would anyone else who doesnt have more specific blood OKd by the blood bank, Massive Transfusion Blood until I am advised that something else is better.
 
I'd have a transfusion number in mind at which I believe the risk of not transfusing exceeds the risk of transfusing, this will depend on comorbidity.

I'd ask for a cell saver

I'd call the friendly hematologist on call, explain the situation and ask them to facilitate getting the best matched blood they can asap.

I'd ensure physiological targets facilitate coagulation - temp, pH, Ca, and euvolaemia.

I'd have a frank discussion with the obstetrician and ask them to start thinking about the appropriateness of hysterectomy in this G5P4 woman, and ask if they would like any other surgical assistance.

I'd discuss the situation with the patient and discuss going to GA.

I'd accept moderate hypotension and have an art line

I'd optimise coagulation with a ROTEM -- and I'd probably give TXA anyway
 
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Give her type specific blood if it's needed.

O+ is a better choice than O- from a resource conservation point of view, since we know she's A+. Type specific would be preferable.

The transfusion reaction risk from minor antibodies isn't immediate catastrophic ABO-incompatibility hemolysis, but rather delayed hemolysis. Does it really matter if she gets a little yellow a week later? She's bleeding now. Don't get cute walking the edge of withholding lifesaving treatment for fear of what happens days later.

Agree with the usual blood sparing adjuncts, TXA, TEG/ROTEM guided therapy, perhaps cell saver though there's some reason to be cautious there given the remnants of amniotic fluid that are likely to be sucked up with it. It's probably OK after the washing process but AFE isn't completely understood and may be partly due to cells or tissue fragments that don't get washed out.
 
With a percreta, the patient is getting a hyst. This isn't usually a problem that can be fixed by uterine sparing techniques, like a Bakri or a B-lynch. A gyne surgeon considering those interventions in the context of a massive PPH needs back up or relief. So don't worry about Rh sensitization. Call the pathologist and have them identify the specific antibodies on the screen. That way, they can get to work providing you with the units that will actually remain in circulation, since a lot are going to go in, and come right back out again through the sucker or end up on the floor. There are 3 principal antibodies that can be lethal, Kell, Kidd, and Duffy, and they only represent about 30% of a standard panel, so the positive screen may not actually represent the deadly ones. … Or they might, but critical exsanguination results in odds that are almost never in your favor, it's pretty much a sure thing. What will keep the lights on is circulating volume and red cell mass. You'll go through a lot of both, so figure that the ones left circulating are the ones that are going to count.

There are some alternatives, but they are experimental. You are not getting them in an emergency. Perfluorocarbons have been used in transfusion, but the tissue oxygenation wasn't spectacular, there's a reason they aren't approved or widely used. Acellular hemoglobin products exist, but are only used in extremely rare circumstances and usually with a significant amount of advanced planning. Most of them are nitric oxide scavengers, and result in pulmonary hypertension and systemic inflammation. They are really only a good choice if the other option is bleeding to death.

But yeah, of course, use TXA, albumin, etc. Recombinant factors are a stroke in a box with a $$$ price tag. Also, if you keep up on your ratio (mimic whole blood ala PROPPR trial) and keep up on the cryo (fibrinogen >200) it is NOT medical bleeding, it is SURGICAL bleeding, and what will fix it is SURGERY. It is perhaps helpful to get thromboelastemetry, but really, it represents whatever the state of coagulation was when you drew it, and during a massive, that's going to change quickly. My thinking is treat it like a code, perform an intervention, then assess.
 
Give the red stuff. It will make the patients vitals look more better....
 
With a percreta, the patient is getting a hyst. This isn't usually a problem that can be fixed by uterine sparing techniques, like a Bakri or a B-lynch. A gyne surgeon considering those interventions in the context of a massive PPH needs back up or relief. So don't worry about Rh sensitization. Call the pathologist and have them identify the specific antibodies on the screen. That way, they can get to work providing you with the units that will actually remain in circulation, since a lot are going to go in, and come right back out again through the sucker or end up on the floor. There are 3 principal antibodies that can be lethal, Kell, Kidd, and Duffy, and they only represent about 30% of a standard panel, so the positive screen may not actually represent the deadly ones. … Or they might, but critical exsanguination results in odds that are almost never in your favor, it's pretty much a sure thing. What will keep the lights on is circulating volume and red cell mass. You'll go through a lot of both, so figure that the ones left circulating are the ones that are going to count.

There are some alternatives, but they are experimental. You are not getting them in an emergency. Perfluorocarbons have been used in transfusion, but the tissue oxygenation wasn't spectacular, there's a reason they aren't approved or widely used. Acellular hemoglobin products exist, but are only used in extremely rare circumstances and usually with a significant amount of advanced planning. Most of them are nitric oxide scavengers, and result in pulmonary hypertension and systemic inflammation. They are really only a good choice if the other option is bleeding to death.

But yeah, of course, use TXA, albumin, etc. Recombinant factors are a stroke in a box with a $$$ price tag. Also, if you keep up on your ratio (mimic whole blood ala PROPPR trial) and keep up on the cryo (fibrinogen >200) it is NOT medical bleeding, it is SURGICAL bleeding, and what will fix it is SURGERY. It is perhaps helpful to get thromboelastemetry, but really, it represents whatever the state of coagulation was when you drew it, and during a massive, that's going to change quickly. My thinking is treat it like a code, perform an intervention, then assess.
Agree with most of your post, and thanks for your info on rbc antigens.

Rotem however gives useful information to guide product use in 10 minutes, and you treat and repeat the rotem 5 minutes later. My experience with massive haemorrhage especially in obstetrics is they need fibrinogen (which for me means cryo)
 
It's probably OK after the washing process but AFE isn't completely understood and may be partly due to cells or tissue fragments that don't get washed out.

If you use a leukocyte depleting filter, it removes almost all components of amniotic fluid at the cost of being fairly slow. Where I am it's pretty acceptable to use cell salvage in obstetrics.
 
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Each blood bank has what they would consider clinically significant, somewhat significant and not so significant antibodies. At our blood bank we consider anti-D, -C, -E, -c, -e, -S, -s, -K, -Fya, -Fyb, -Jka, -Jkb (most common antibodies ); -Cw, -V, -Kpa, -Jsa, -Lua (uncommon antibodies); -Kpb, -Jsb, -Lub, -k (rarely seen antibodies); -f(ce) (uncommon). Any of these antibodies would cause a (most likely severe) transfusion reaction. Antibodies like cold autos, cold agglutinins, warm autos and warm panagglutinins have variable significance and would cause antibody screen and panel cells to be positive across the board, including crossmatches. Antibodies like anti-M, -N, -Lea, -Leb, -P1, and A1 we consider not significant due to they are cold reacting antibodies, which do not bind at 37C or react at AHG phase. For these antibodies, we can do a prewarm crossmatch and if compatible, we will instruct that cells are warmed up prior to transfusion and continue to stay warm throughout the transfusion (same as cold autos and agglutinins).

I'd be curious to know what your blood bank's testing methodology is (instrument - solid phase or gel, manual gel card, classic tube method, etc.). For automation, we use an Immucor Galileo Echo (updating to automated gel card) and we have issues with some patients where their antibody screen and subsequent panel cells are all positive (sometimes there are only a few that are positive). We then do an antibody screen in tube including 37C phase and the screen is now negative. We result the antibody screen as negative and call it an NSA (non-specific agglutination); this is a very common occurrence with the Immucor Galileo Echo. I only described this because antibody screens can be positive for a few reasons besides the patient having an antibody and delaying transfusion.

To others saying to transfuse O Negative cells: If we have history, giving A positive blood would be the way to go. Unless she's got something like an anti-C or -E (or the techs are thinking it's a -C or -E), giving Rh negative blood would significantly help since those antigens are less likely to be present on Rh negative donor cells (when I test for those antigens, usually 3 out of 4 units are negative for those antigens). Anti-c and -e are even more challenging (especially anti-e) as these antigens are most likely to be present on the donor cells (for anti-e: 98% frequency, which is more than the -D/Rh antigen! and there are others that have a higher frequency like -k w/ it's 99.8% frequency!). The reason I brought up transfusing Rh negative cells is that it would only help if the patient is suspected of having either one of those antibodies. If she has any other antibody besides -C or -E it would be pointless to transfuse Rh negative blood unless we do not have a previous blood type on file.

The cross was positive. I wouldn’t use the blood that was already crossed. I would ask for a type-specific uncrossed unit as that would have a lower risk of incompatibility as compared to the already crossed blood that was shown to be positive.
The best thing for a blood banker to do is crossmatch and issue units with least incompatibility. I understand the premise of your response but this is something a good blood banker would tell you NOT to do. Without testing for compatibility, you are taking an ABSOLUTELY HUGE BET that she's receiving units with worse incompatibility than others. Of course you are the judge with her clinical presentation but if we can give you units to have on hand and then call you when we have other units available with less incompatibility, I would prefer you to do this.

The first thing I would do (as a tech) is notify our pathologists. At the same time, I'd be looking at her history to see if we can find any results from a previous type and screen w/antibody identification (probably come up empty because of next sentence). I'd probably call you guys next to see who her OBGYN is and ask if they have any history (never mind I see above she hasn't received routine care...s hit). Hopefully your blood bank works efficiently and maybe has a panel on to start ruling out/in whatever it can be. I'd be concerned about the baby as they may have been impacted by mom's possible antibody and could possibly have HDN upon arrival into the new world.

Most blood banks would have some sort of form that basically holds you accountable (not to get in you trouble but to cover out butts in that we didn't just issue w/out notifying you that there may be a issue during and possibly after transfusion, ie a paper trail) if the patient has any adverse reaction with transfusing blood. It'll basically state you are responsible and fully acknowledge that the blood is incompatible for her. Obviously you'd have to sign it and bring it back to us. We issue them for patients with cold agglutinins, warm auto/pans, etc. because their crossmatches are always incompatible and the attending physician has to sign them because due to their incompatibility. In this instance, we'd end up indicating the emergent need for blood with a positive antibody screen and no phenotypically compatible cells available with a resulting incompatibility.

God I hope this was a hypothetical scenario because I would be s hitting bricks in that blood bank. I hate to admit it but I get a huge adrenaline rush with these types of scenarios. I love to play cowboy in the blood bank when stuff like this happens since many of my coworkers hate these situations and often don't know where to start.

Sorry I'm editing my poor grammar. I thought it all sounded good when I posted. My apologies for the notification :arghh:😀:asshat:
 
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By the time you have replaced most of her blood with LR there may not be much in the way of those antibodies left. If you hold out as long as you can I think you have a good chance of getting away with the incompatible units.
 
Each blood bank has what they would consider clinically significant, somewhat significant and not so significant antibodies. At our blood bank we consider anti-D, -C, -E, -c, -e, -S, -s, -K, -Fya, -Fyb, -Jka, -Jkb (most common antibodies ); -Cw, -V, -Kpa, -Jsa, -Lua (uncommon antibodies); -Kpb, -Jsb, -Lub, -k (rarely seen antibodies); -f(ce) (uncommon). Any of these antibodies would cause a (most likely severe) transfusion reaction. Antibodies like cold autos, cold agglutinins, warm autos and warm panagglutinins have variable significance and would cause antibody screen and panel cells to be positive across the board, including crossmatches. Antibodies like anti-M, -N, -Lea, -Leb, -P1, and A1 we consider not significant due to they are cold reacting antibodies, which do not bind at 37C or react at AHG phase. For these antibodies, we can do a prewarm crossmatch and if compatible, we will instruct that cells are warmed up prior to transfusion and continue to stay warm throughout the transfusion (same as cold autos and agglutinins).

I'd be curious to know what your blood bank's testing methodology is (instrument - solid phase or gel, manual gel card, classic tube method, etc.). For automation, we use an Immucor Galileo Echo (updating to automated gel card) and we have issues with some patients where their antibody screen and subsequent panel cells are all positive (sometimes they are only a few that are positive). We then do an antibody screen in tube AHG phase (and 37) with positive Coombs Check Cells and the screen is now negative. We result the antibody screen as negative and call it an NSA (non-specific agglutination); this is a very common occurrence with the Immucor Galileo Echo. I only described this because antibody screens can be positive for a few reasons besides the patient having an antibody and delaying transfusion.

To others saying to transfuse O Negative cells: If we have history, giving A positive blood would be the way to go. Unless she's got something like an anti-C or -E (or the techs are thinking it's a -C or -E), giving Rh negative blood would significantly help since those antigens are less likely to be present on Rh negative donor cells (when I test for those antigens, usually 3 out of 4 units are negative for those antigens). Anti-c and -e are even more challenging (especially anti-e) as these antigens are most likely to be present on the donor cells (for anti-e: 98% frequency, which is more than the -D/Rh antigen! and there are others that have a higher frequency like -k w/ it's 99.8% frequency!). The reason I brought up transfusing Rh negative is that it would only hope if the patient is suspected of having either one of those antibodies. If she has any other antibody besides -C or -E would be pointless to transfuse Rh negative blood.


The best thing for a blood banker to do is crossmatch and issue units with least incompatibility.
I understand the premise of your response but this is something a good blood banker would tell you NOT to do. Without testing for compatibility, you are taking an ABSOLUTELY HUGE BET that she's receiving units with worse incompatibility than others. Of course you are the judge with her clinical presentation but if we can give you units to have on hand and then call you when we have other units available with less incompatibility, I would prefer you to do this.

The first thing I would do (as a tech) is notify our pathologists. At the same time, I'd be looking at her history to see if we can find any results from a previous type and screen w/antibody identification (probably come up empty because of next sentence). I'd probably call you guys next to see who her OBGYN is and ask if they have any history (never mind I see above she hasn't received routine care...s hit). Hopefully your blood bank works efficiently and maybe has a panel on to start ruling out/in whatever it can be. I'd be concerned about the baby as it may have been impacted by mom's possible antibody and could possibly have HDN upon arrival into the new world.

Most blood banks would have some sort of form that basically holds you accountable if the patient has any adverse reaction with transfusing blood. It'll basically state you are responsible and fully acknowledge that the blood is incompatible for her. Obviously you'd have to sign it and it'll have to be brought back to us. We issue them for patients with cold agglutinins, warm auto/pans, etc. because their crossmatches are always incompatible and the attending physician has to sign them because due to their incompatibility. In this instance, we'd end up indicating the emergent need for blood with a positive antibody screen and no phenotypically compatible cells available with a resulting incompatibility.

God I hope this was a hypothetical scenario because I would be s hitting bricks in that blood bank. I hate to admit it but I get a huge adrenaline rush with these types of scenarios. I love to play cowboy in the blood bank with stuff like this happens since many of my coworkers hate these situations and often don't know where to start.

So put you on the spot. In your professional opinion, you start with O+/- or A+/- blood?
 
So put you on the spot. In your professional opinion, you start with O+/- or A+/- blood?
Depends: If we have any history (meaning in our LIS she's been typed before in the hospital system being A positive) I'd issue A positive. If there's no previous history besides the type and screen that was already performed, I'd issue O Negative since she is an L&D patient and obviously her age is within the child-bearing age range until we get a confirmatory type of being A positive. I'd give you guys a ring to see if we know if she's been transfused before or in the last 14 days. If she has been transfused, we're gonna have a mess of problems and we'll need to know when and where she was transfused (it'll help if the previous hospital has positive antibody screen results and antibody identification). Once we know the previous hospital we'll give them a ring for all of the patient's information. If it's been w/in the last 90 days, we cannot phenotype the patient's RBCs against the antibody in question as the transfused RBCs will still be present in the patient's bloodstream and interfere with the testing.

Depending on the antibody screen results, I can start making judgments of where I think this is going to go. Same results across the screen? Maybe an autoantibody, NSA type event, warm pan, cold auto. Some cells positive/negative? Maybe a single antibody. Cells all positive with different reactivity (for example: cell 1 = 2+, cell 2 = 4+, cell 3 = 0)? Maybe multiple antibodies from the lovely Kidd/Duffy/MNSs antibodies showing dosage. You never want to only go off the antibody screen results as it usually only contains 2 - 3 cells but it could give you an idea of what you might be dealing with. Since crossmatches (I'd start crossmatching a large quantity of cells in hopes of finding very weak or no incompatibility) take about 30 minutes, I'd start working up the possible antibody and perform a DAT and autocontrol (test the patients own plasma against their own red cells) to use as a reference measurement against the incompatibility crossmatches. If the DAT and autocontrol are positive, I'll issue cells that are less reactive than the patient's autocontrol (for example: If the patient's autocontrol is 2+, I'd issue cells with incompatibility of less than 2+). If the DAT and autocontrol are positive, we will end up sending her specimen out (and requesting more tubes) for an adsorption and possible elution studies if she's been transfused in the last 14 days (which will further delay). If the DAT and autocontrol are negative, I can start to r/out (in my head) the antibody being an autoantibody or panagglutinin. I'd issue the units that were very weak to 1+ incompatibility; I'd maybe issue incompatible crossmatches with 2+ results but that's if you guys absolutely needed the blood yesterday.

Now if I did the crossmatches and got the same incompatibility across the board at the same phases (we look at immediate spin, 37C and AHG), I'd probably start thinking it's some sort of autoantibody (w/positive DAT and autocontrol as described above). For autos/cold agglutinins/panagglutinins, you'll see incompatibility at all 3 phases. For colds, you'll see them only at IS but may be negative or weak at 37C and negative at AHG (hence why we'll do a prewarm crossmatch). For the most common antibodies I stated in my other post, IS and 37C may be negative but AHG will certainly be positive (depending on the strength, I can start thinking about which antibody it could be). Rh antibodies usually have 3+ to 4+ results, Kidd and Duffy tend to be in the 1+ to 3+ (depending on the dosage).

As you can see there's no clear cut answer of what I'd do as there's a variety of things that play into this. But if your answer was based solely on blood type, please only refer to the first paragraph. The last 2 get more specific/technical about the different antibodies and how we interpret them. I know this may be hard to follow but I'm trying to play this out in my head while I type this to give you an idea of how we think these situations through. The best way to read this is out loud to yourself, at least it worked for me 🙂

As an anecdotal: I have had this happen before. The patient was a young woman (maybe 23 or 24) who I know had history of lupus. She presented to the ED with large blood clots on her period. Her CBC came back with a 3.1 HgB and 9.something Hct and I was working blood bank that night. Type and screen results: ABORh: O Pos, ABSC: All positive and same results (I think 2+ or 3+, I can't remember) across the board in gel. I ran an antibody panel: All positive and same results (2+ or 3+, I can't remember) across the board including positive autocontrol (I think it was 2+) and positive DAT (both IgG and C3). I did tube antibody screen w/PEG (Polyethylene Glycol, a potentiator that increases the interaction of RBCs and antibodies) and still got the same results from the gel card screen across all 3 phases. Got an order for 4 units of blood. Told them I think it's an autoantibody of some sort but will need additional specimens to send to the Red Cross but could give them FFP, cryo and platelets in the meantime. I also told them if they need blood we can emergency issue the blood but the attending physician will have to sign for it. I remember going home that morning hoping she'd still be alive when I come in the next night. Red Cross report came back as a warm panagglutinin and transfuse blood with least incompatibility. She was still going strong when I came in the next night and ended up discharging a few days later. Luckily the intensivist was one of the anesthesiologists that I shadowed for a little while so he was very understanding about the whole situation.
 
@dingdong28, thanks for posting.
My pleasure, thank you for having me! I know I'm a "little inexperienced" with this anesthesia stuff (I say that with a lot of sarcasm and with a humorous tone) but I love when you guys talk about blood bank stuff. If I pull the trigger on anesthesiologist assistant, it'd be so awesome working with all of you. I find the anesthesiologist's knowledge base absolutely incredible with what you/they need to know and I'm far more interested in anesthesia than any other branch of medicine. I was/am a pretty diehard chemistry major so maybe that helps? :laugh: It's probably a blessing to be living in Cleveland with Case's Anesthesiologist Assistant 20 minutes away from home :cat:
Thank you all for reading and liking my posts, I really do appreciate it.
 
Fellow former bloodbanker here. Just want to add on a bit to what @dingdong28 said.

First, based on what he describes, I'm guessing he works at a larger and/or tertiary academic type setting. In that environment your best bet when stuff hits the fan is to tell the bloodbank exactly what's going on and what you anticipate your needs are going to be. We will rally the troops. They can start the work and pull in a tranfusion medicine trained pathologist to help guide utilization. We had one case at my old shop that was so high risk and so many antibodies the transfusion med fellow sat next to me by the OR window with a list of compatible but frozen, least incompatible for this antibody, least incompatible for that one, all these pathways dependent on how much/how fast the patient was bleeding. Obviously we had some prep time on that one.

While the listed significant antibodies above are considered "significant" in that they can all cause physiologic problems, there are definitely some waaaay worse than others (we say Kidd kills) and we can use that info to guide us. As noted above, if you have a good blood banker and pathologist, they should have some idea from the panel, strength of reactions, etc. what you might be dealing with and how big of a problem it's going to potentially pose for you. We might not be able to give you risk free negative crossmatch units, but we should be able to lower the risk some more than just blindly grabbing something ABO compatible but otherwise not tested and praying. You should not try to figure this out for yourself from the OR.

Now that's a whole different scenario than what you might be dealing with at more of a community shop without a transfusion fellowship trained pathologist or dedicated blood baker with a ton of experience. They still might be able to get there but it's going to be a lot slower getting there. So it honestly would not hurt to sit down with some folks from your hospital and drill this and make sure lab/path has some protocols in place for this type of situation and a list of most serious antibodies in a bleedout vs ones you can probably get away with as the reaction is likely to be more delayed/less severe, etc. Anesthesia should ideally have some sense of which are which if possible (pocket card?), especially if in a smaller setting.

Also, in these situations it's not hard to exhaust your supply of available units. I've tested 30 to find 2 compatible.

It's beautiful well-orchestrated chaos with a solid, experienced team and a terrifying cluster with a rusty one.
 
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