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Emory vs. Pitt vs. Baylor

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firsttima

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Having trouble with this. Jdh and gutonc despise Houston and thus will probably put Baylor at the bottom of this list, but lets forget that part for a second (my first time in houston and I thought it was nice).

Got a great vibe from Baylor, saw a great match list, saw very chilled out relaxed residents/attendings even though they all do admit to working hard. And Baylor is surrounded by a ridiculous medical campus. In fact, I was so enamored that I thought about ranking it > UTSW.

BUT, clearly a snapshot of a program is just that...and there has to be something to the fact that Baylor really gets no love on SDN.

Pitt gets a LOT of love. Emory gets mediocre love. I don't know what to do with these three.

I just want to go to a place with great clinical training (high volume, county) and perhaps more importantly, a place that can give me a VARIETY OF LOCATIONS across the US for fellowship match. Thinking Cards or H/O now.

Sigh.
 

pornstar

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In terms of financial strength, Baylor is risky. They were building a hospital that sucked all their money. They had to stop building and ended in a terrible financial crisis. Remember that MD Anderson and the Texas Heart Institute are affiliated with UT, not with Baylor; The Methodist with Cornell, not with Baylor. Do not be attracted by the fanciness of the medical center, because Baylor is Ben Taub, VA and St. Luke... nothing extraordinary.

Your decision should be between Pitt and Emory.
 

speciled15

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I actually disagree with all of the above. While these people try to be as helpful as possible, it all comes down to your gut feeling. I really liked Baylor despite the financial situation which I think has been blown out of proportion. Yes, they are in the red, which they were up front about it, but what it comes down to is the match list and they still match people into very competitive places/fellowships.
They are not affiliated w/ MD Anderson but they have 1-2 people match there a year consistently and likewise for the Texas Heart Institute.
What I've gathered through this interview process is that you have to use the advice/help here with some critical thinking b/c I've actually liked several of the places that are not though well of here, and I'm not sure if people who post things have actually been to these programs.
 

Pkboi24

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Having interviewed at both Pitt and Emory, I can say that Pitt is known for great Pulm/CC/Transplant and has tons of money. If you can bare with living in Pittsburgh, I would easily rank it first. Emory and Baylor are comparable in terms of the training you get. I would much rather live in Houston than Atlanta, though. Atlanta is GHETTO.

As for BCM's financial troubles, it doesn't really affect your training as much as you would think. Each of the hospitals that you will be training at has it's own financial resource pool and will not be affected by whatever BCM is going through. What it may affect is the research that is available and the recruitment of big-name faculty. So in terms of both of those factors, you would be much better served by Pittsburgh and marginally better served by Emory.

However, if we're talking final outcomes, the match-lists for all 3 are very comparable and like I said before Houston is a much better city than both Pittsburgh and Atlanta.
 
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jdh71

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    These things ebb and flow. Baylor is actually a pretty awesome program, but they have taken a reputation hit with all of their nonsense down there - made people edgy, and it shows up. Two years ago we had an argument about wether Pitt should be considered a top 30 program, and at that time most of us were like, "hell nah", but it's making it way up, by being a solid ass place to train. Emory is a solid top 30 place, and will continue to be so. When we "rank" we're not saying that low on your list is "bad" just simply not as academically prestigious. You can't really go wrong with a Baylor, a Pitt, or an Emory . . . I'm serious. And so what, I ****ing hate Houston, lots of people love it down there. I keep saying it, and I'll say it again, try to go where you WANT to go. The "best" place, academically, on my rank list was #4 when I submitted.
     

    flipmd

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    In terms of financial strength, Baylor is risky. They were building a hospital that sucked all their money. They had to stop building and ended in a terrible financial crisis. Remember that MD Anderson and the Texas Heart Institute are affiliated with UT, not with Baylor; The Methodist with Cornell, not with Baylor. Do not be attracted by the fanciness of the medical center, because Baylor is Ben Taub, VA and St. Luke... nothing extraordinary.

    Your decision should be between Pitt and Emory.

    Just want to dispel some misconceptions above.

    THI is definitely not affiliated with UT Houston. St. Luke's has both Baylor and UTMB residents, although Baylor residents are the ones who rotate through Cardiology in St. Luke's/THI, not UTMB residents (and there are more BCM than UTMB residents in Luke's in general - the St. Luke's Chief is a BCM chief).

    THI has its own Cardiology fellowship program which is separate from the BCM Cardiology fellowship program, although they've been getting about 2 fellows from BCM per year. So BCM residents have a foot in 2 Cardiology fellowship programs as they're going to be known to both THI and BCM attendings. TONS of Cards research too going on in THI and BCM that our residents go into. The THI Cards attendings, in particular, have a lot of studies ready to go in their heads, just need residents to step up and claim them. Everything's in a spreadsheet already for post-PCI patients, just need to correlate them together with whatever data you want (EKG changes, Troponins, BNP, Echo findings, what have you).

    The other part is true, though. MDACC is a UT thing, although BCM traditionally has at least 2 H/O matches there per year.

    Lastly, I love Ben Taub (the county hospital). As far as I'm concerned, it IS extraordinary - in terms of clinical training. I know of old-timer BCM people who rotated in Methodist when they were residents, and they say Ben Taub is the heart and soul of BCM education. Bulk of your training you get there. The only thing lost from the Methodist split was probably some big names that you could've gotten to write LORs for you and some research opportunities (which are not lacking right now in any way if you look for it). Methodist rotations were being like secretaries to the MDs there, is what they say. So not a big loss. Nothing extraordinary (Methodist).

    Pitt and Emory are both quite good too though. Emory I hear has a good Cardiology program too. Not sure which is better BCM or Emory in terms of Cards as I'm not too interested in Cards. Agree with jdh, you can't go wrong with any of the 3.

    So please take things with a grain of salt here in SDN. Of course rumors do matter in the reputation of a program, and I'm fine with that. Just don't base it on such nonsense as THI being with UT Houston and not BCM, as the above poster obviously doesn't know that THI is a part of Luke's, or much about Texas programs in general.
     
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    OveractiveBrain

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    I can speak only for Baylor. It has a phenomenal reputation for placing fellowships. It also has a phenomenal reputation for being a slavedriving resident-raping three years. Essentially, you follow the direction of the fellows, acting as you did as a sub-i for another three years. You work hard, you get paid little, you make few of your own decisions.

    The payment is at the end of the residency, where you say "I got in to Baylor, I want a Fellowship, gimme." Then the magical Baylor fairy says "oh, here you go, a fellowship, thanks for playing."

    Obvi you have to do the work, research in the field, yadda yadda. But it is the place you go not to learn internal medicine, but to launch you into an awesome fellowship.

    Emory has a much more friendly reputation. I have no idea about Pitt. I only applied and explored the Philly programs.
     

    firsttima

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    Okay, if that is true...it really sucks. I got the impression from residents on my IV day that they are actually very independent and get to make their own decisions. Are you a student at Baylor?

    Did you just have one bad day or is this the general consensus amongst the interns?

    I can speak only for Baylor. It has a phenomenal reputation for placing fellowships. It also has a phenomenal reputation for being a slavedriving resident-raping three years. Essentially, you follow the direction of the fellows, acting as you did as a sub-i for another three years. You work hard, you get paid little, you make few of your own decisions.

    The payment is at the end of the residency, where you say "I got in to Baylor, I want a Fellowship, gimme." Then the magical Baylor fairy says "oh, here you go, a fellowship, thanks for playing."

    Obvi you have to do the work, research in the field, yadda yadda. But it is the place you go not to learn internal medicine, but to launch you into an awesome fellowship.

    Emory has a much more friendly reputation. I have no idea about Pitt. I only applied and explored the Philly programs.
     

    LadyJubilee8_18

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    I can speak only for Baylor. It has a phenomenal reputation for placing fellowships. It also has a phenomenal reputation for being a slavedriving resident-raping three years. Essentially, you follow the direction of the fellows, acting as you did as a sub-i for another three years. You work hard, you get paid little, you make few of your own decisions.

    The payment is at the end of the residency, where you say "I got in to Baylor, I want a Fellowship, gimme." Then the magical Baylor fairy says "oh, here you go, a fellowship, thanks for playing."

    Obvi you have to do the work, research in the field, yadda yadda. But it is the place you go not to learn internal medicine, but to launch you into an awesome fellowship.

    Emory has a much more friendly reputation. I have no idea about Pitt. I only applied and explored the Philly programs.

    Having graduated from med school at Baylor I totally disagree. It is not the friendliest place in the world because you do all the work and make all the decisions as a resident (and also med student). The autonomy was ridiculous! I was making lots of the decisions as a student because there were so many patients and so much to do! I rarely even saw the fellows when I was on my medicine rotations. I think this is a very resident run program. Where it lacks is in the general support since it is a high flow, sink or swim place. The medicine training is phenomenal because of the volume and the breadth of pathology you see.
     

    flipmd

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    I can speak only for Baylor. It has a phenomenal reputation for placing fellowships. It also has a phenomenal reputation for being a slavedriving resident-raping three years. Essentially, you follow the direction of the fellows, acting as you did as a sub-i for another three years. You work hard, you get paid little, you make few of your own decisions.

    The payment is at the end of the residency, where you say "I got in to Baylor, I want a Fellowship, gimme." Then the magical Baylor fairy says "oh, here you go, a fellowship, thanks for playing."

    Obvi you have to do the work, research in the field, yadda yadda. But it is the place you go not to learn internal medicine, but to launch you into an awesome fellowship.

    Emory has a much more friendly reputation. I have no idea about Pitt. I only applied and explored the Philly programs.

    AGAIN, I feel the need to dispel these rumors.

    I cannot argue that you would be working hard during your 3 years in BCM IM. However, this is because of the patient load with the social issues of a county hospital, and the Federal Government mentality nightmare that exists at staff at the VA (which is the same mentality for most VAs - and government departments - I've been to).

    However, I can say for sure that it is definitely not a place where fellows dictate what you do. Especially on your floor months, interns get to be pretty much independent, and upper levels basically manage the team with the attending serving as consultant and a backstop. Also on the floor teams, we only consult subspecialty services only after exhausting all possibilities (which is taken to an opposite extreme in the private world of St. Luke's). In St. Luke's, the fellows are much too busy to bother with the residents in services, and your contact is directly with the attendings - you carry your own patients and you run things by the attendings, who are all very accommodating. You act as a "mini-fellow" where the fellow usually takes majority of the census, and the intern/resident takes about 8 consult patients each.

    Again, I am not saying that BCM is even in the top tier of programs such as UCSF / Harvards / even UTSW. I just don't want people deciding about the program on such blatant lies.

    ... aaaaand after typing all of this, I just realized I might have been caught by a troll. /facepalm
     

    firsttima

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    Haha. Well be that as it may...I think most of us truly appreciate honest insight.

    Thanks. What you said was largely echoed by the residents I met on my interview day.

    So :thumbup::thumbup: to you and BCM.

    AGAIN, I feel the need to dispel these rumors.

    I cannot argue that you would be working hard during your 3 years in BCM IM. However, this is because of the patient load with the social issues of a county hospital, and the Federal Government mentality nightmare that exists at staff at the VA (which is the same mentality for most VAs - and government departments - I've been to).

    However, I can say for sure that it is definitely not a place where fellows dictate what you do. Especially on your floor months, interns get to be pretty much independent, and upper levels basically manage the team with the attending serving as consultant and a backstop. Also on the floor teams, we only consult subspecialty services only after exhausting all possibilities (which is taken to an opposite extreme in the private world of St. Luke's). In St. Luke's, the fellows are much too busy to bother with the residents in services, and your contact is directly with the attendings - you carry your own patients and you run things by the attendings, who are all very accommodating. You act as a "mini-fellow" where the fellow usually takes majority of the census, and the intern/resident takes about 8 consult patients each.

    Again, I am not saying that BCM is even in the top tier of programs such as UCSF / Harvards / even UTSW. I just don't want people deciding about the program on such blatant lies.

    ... aaaaand after typing all of this, I just realized I might have been caught by a troll. /facepalm
     

    Tius

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    To clarify the deal with baylor, I'm a second year resident there currently, in the process of applying for cards. Take whatever I say with whatever grain/flavor or salt/spice you want.

    Financially, BCM is hurting. We'll probably be hurting to recruit big names in basic science/research. As far as how us residents have been feeling it? Instead of getting a medicine sponsored happy hour every month, it happens every 2 months. We do pay for parking, but I believe that was the case even years ago. Otherwise, like everybody mentioned, the three hospitals we rotate at are financially independent (VA, Ben Taub, St Lukes)

    As far as autonomy, it is PURELY a resident ran program, especially on the general medicine wards. Slightly less so on MICU/CCU and subspecialty consults. Well, overnight MICU, as a resident you call the shots unless something hits the fan and you run out of ideas, then call the fellow. CCU, you have no choice, if I could cath myself, I would. Subspecialty consults, for most part depends on the fellows. Some let you do whatever, others micromanage more. However, the bread & butter is general wards where as interns you manage stuff on your own. The experience of the intern medicine float (crosscovering all the medicine teams' worth of patients) as paintful as it can be, is a growing experience everytime. Even in MICU, i was managing vent settings on my own on prerounds, and then on attending rounds, presenting what I did to the attending who most of the time was fine with it. I honestly don't know where the idea BCM was a fellow ran program came from because it is the opposite.

    As far as work, well it is what it is. Turn-around time for bloodwork at VA takes awhile, though better than years past, imaging at Ben Taub can take awhile for turn around. Social admits at both places. Depending on your upper level and also luck of the draw on your calls, you could have some of the most awesome light ward months where on average you carry 4 patients, to some of the most intense where you're carrying 8-10 pt's all month.

    Despite all the shortcomings of heavy call, lot of work (I guess that's the price you pay for autonomy) politics of VA, shortcomings of county hospital, I've felt I made the right choice coming to BCM. I learn everyday something new, I have a great chance at matching into a competitive specialty, make my own decisions as a resident. The only thing I wish BCM would do is: pay parking for its residents, more happy hours, and be in South Cali :D
     
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