Employment by MCAT Tutoring Companies

[deleted722807]

Does anyone have experience applying for jobs as an MCAT instructor with companies like Kaplan or NextStep? What does it take to get hired?

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[doctorleospaceman]

First off you need a 90th percentile or higher MCAT (depending on the company). For most you send in a sample lecture. I myself didn't do it because I found the Kaplan course to be overall a waste of time and would feel guilty as an instructor. Especially since I disagree with their outline philosophy.

 

[ojy77511]

Do ppl with exactly 90th percentile actually get it or do you need like 96th+? I have 513.


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[deleted722807]

@doctorleospaceman thanks for the information. I got 96th percentile, hopefully that's enough to interest a few companies.

 

[aldol16]

If you're interested in teaching, you should thoroughly investigate the philosophy of the company before you apply - if you care, that is. Otherwise, you could likely get stuck parroting information you don't actually believe in. In other words, you could become just a robot for the company - they use your credentials as advertisement and then make you teach their trademark strategies and not the ones you used. That's why I find it so rewarding to answer MCAT questions on here instead of working for a company.

 

[deleted722807]

For people checking this thread, I recently tried and failed to secure employment. While I don't think it would be ethical to spell out the exact hiring processes I went through,I'd be happy to share my general experiences if you PM me.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[wagonwheel23]

Private tutoring tends to be more lucrative (and flexible) than working for a major test prep company.

 

[aldol16]

Private tutoring tends to be more lucrative (and flexible) than working for a major test prep company.

Not to mention probably more ethical.

 

[BadHatHarry]

Not to mention probably more ethical.

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are larger companies inherently more unethical than smaller ones? Are hospitals less ethical than small clinics? Does a physician ho gives advice they do not personally use (check out how many physician's smoke) make them unethical?

so many people on here are so naive, comments like this are so telling.

IME, tutoring is much more lucrative than teaching a classroom course (same in academia). if you have a good enough score, go for it if its what you want to do. it seems like easy $, and a good way to kill a gap year or time before med school.

if belief in everything about your job and the "ideology" behind it is a deal-breaker for you, then please, please please do not go into medicine. Both my parents do it, and yes, your credentials are used to make $, and they often have to make recommendations they do not agree with.

i think most companies want top 10% or better, score wise. i tutor and its much more flexible. plus i get to teach what I feel comfortable doing. if you can find mcat tutoring work or a network to plug into, do that instead. classroom teaching is def dying.

 

[theonlytycrane]

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are larger companies inherently more unethical than smaller ones? Are hospitals less ethical than small clinics? Does a physician ho gives advice they do not personally use (check out how many physician's smoke) make them unethical?

so many people on here are so naive, comments like this are so telling.

IME, tutoring is much more lucrative than teaching a classroom course (same in academia). if you have a good enough score, go for it if its what you want to do. it seems like easy $, and a good way to kill a gap year or time before med school.

if belief in everything about your job and the "ideology" behind it is a deal-breaker for you, then please, please please do not go into medicine. Both my parents do it, and yes, your credentials are used to make $, and they often have to make recommendations they do not agree with.

i think most companies want top 10% or better, score wise. i tutor and its much more flexible. plus i get to teach what I feel comfortable doing. if you can find mcat tutoring work or a network to plug into, do that instead. classroom teaching is def dying.

The comment was more about the fact that test prep companies overcharge and leave a lot of desperate students in a crappy situation. Anyone has the right to teach if they don't care about this, but it is a sad and true reality.

 

[aldol16]

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are larger companies inherently more unethical than smaller ones? Are hospitals less ethical than small clinics? Does a physician ho gives advice they do not personally use (check out how many physician's smoke) make them unethical?

so many people on here are so naive, comments like this are so telling.

Large test-prep companies are unethical not only because they overcharge students, playing on their desperation, but also because they require you to teach to their methods. Kaplan's detailed plan of attack for each question, for example. Those are not necessarily the ones that work best and you might not even believe in them (diagramming paragraphs has to be about the stupidest thing I've heard, just below memorizing minutiae for the MCAT) but they make you parrot those out. Your analogy with physicians smoking is not good enough yet. Not smoking is actually good for your health. These purported "strategies" are not good for your MCAT score. This would be the equivalent of physicians smoking and then telling their patients to snort cocaine every morning instead of smoking. This "alternative" actually hurts the person who these companies/physicians are "trying" to help. I highly doubt that even your parents would make recommendations that they know would harm patients.

 

[aldol16]

IME, tutoring is much more lucrative than teaching a classroom course (same in academia). if you have a good enough score, go for it if its what you want to do. it seems like easy $, and a good way to kill a gap year or time before med school.

Since teaching a classroom course often falls to us grad students, I would say that being a unionized janitor is more lucrative than teaching a classroom course in academia.

 

[baratheonfire]

For people checking this thread, I recently tried and failed to secure employment. While I don't think it would be ethical to spell out the exact hiring processes I went through,I'd be happy to share my general experiences if you PM me.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I don't think there's really a problem with that. It's better to help people secure employment than to help a faceless corporation. Please tell us what the process was like.

 

[DesitnationMD]

Large test-prep companies are unethical not only because they overcharge students, playing on their desperation, but also because they require you to teach to their methods. Kaplan's detailed plan of attack for each question, for example. Those are not necessarily the ones that work best and you might not even believe in them (diagramming paragraphs has to be about the stupidest thing I've heard, just below memorizing minutiae for the MCAT) but they make you parrot those out. Your analogy with physicians smoking is not good enough yet. Not smoking is actually good for your health. These purported "strategies" are not good for your MCAT score. This would be the equivalent of physicians smoking and then telling their patients to snort cocaine every morning instead of smoking. This "alternative" actually hurts the person who these companies/physicians are "trying" to help. I highly doubt that even your parents would make recommendations that they know would harm patients.

The comment was more about the fact that test prep companies overcharge and leave a lot of desperate students in a crappy situation. Anyone has the right to teach if they don't care about this, but it is a sad and true reality.

No offense, but everything you both say in this sentence is applicable to the AAMC.

overcharging - Yup, look at the cost of exams that come from recycled old passages from the pre-2015 exam and their "flashcards." plenty of test prep companies offer materials at or below their prices, and likely put a lot mroe effort into this matertial.

The AAMC is literally a monopoly, playing on all of our desperation to get where we want to go. every ****ty product they coe out with we will all feel compelled to buy, and they know it. their explanations are lacking in throughness because they do nto care about instructing, only evaluating. no passage explanatons whatsevoer, no detailed exaplanations to most wrong answers, almost no discussion of the way of thihking the q meant to evoke. the aamc does nto have to do this, in fact i expect them nto to, but don't say they do nto alos leave some desperate students in ****ty situations.

The exam requires you to think the way the AAMC wants you to. How many med students and physicians on SDN have stated how this is not at all how we will learn and think as physicians. The opinions on what this exam measures or how useful it is varies tremendously. some adcoms lvoe it, some hate it. the biggest thing the aamc loves to tout is how well it correlates to other standardized tests we take as med students, go figure. Does anyone know if GPA or MCAt has a stronger correlation to med school performance (USMLE aside)? would be interesting to see.

Everything you say about kaplan is not fact, only your opinion. thousands of students do well (some likely better than you or I) using their methods each year. Just because YOU don't work well with their methods does nothing to change this fact. same goes to EK, nextstep, princeton, what have you.

As for you analogy with doctors giving bad advice, you again are flawed in your logic. All of medicine agrees smoking and rec drug use is unhealthy, there is no one consensus (aside from apparently your own views) about how best to approach the mcat.

AFAIK, no one at kaplan or any of the test prep companies makes you do anything. If you take the job, and the $, you agree to do things there way. Do yo really think if you actually get into med school and are a physician oen day, you will be making your own decisions based on what you alone think is best for your patients? Or not donig things you disagree with? You are sadly mistaken. Thousands of dcotors every day have to make recommendation they do nto agree with, be it for insurance reasons, economic reasons, or even patient personality. some meds work great for patients, some won't and the doc knows it, but it's the best they can do. Your reliance on the presumption that Kaplan is the "wrong" way implies that there is one "right way" (and you seem to think its whatever you do) and makes your argument a house with no foundation.

What exactly do you think the AAMC is selling you exams for? you think their non-profit status means they run at a literal zero balance, that people do nto get wealthy worknig for them, for that everyone at the AAMC belvies their lines about the exam and its validity? Are people who work for the AAMC unethical too?

people in academia tend to view this world though pretty idealogical glasses because they usually see themsevles as above it, which is why many of them seek to avoid the real world and stay in academia, in spite of its terrible structure and awful compensation for anyone not in the tenured elite (seriously, go look up how many U.S. phds will EVER end up with a tenure track job, let alone a position that pays decently enough to justify 5-7 years of schooling).

no to get sidetracked on the clusterfcuk that is academia, OP, tutor if you want to tutor, teach if you want to teach, if it is important to you to ONLY pass on info you personally believe in or use, then do not become a doctor, or at the very least, stick to your own private tutoring.

 

[theonlytycrane]

@DesitnationMD

have you reached your "desitnation" yet?

 

[aldol16]

overcharging - Yup, look at the cost of exams that come from recycled old passages from the pre-2015 exam and their "flashcards." plenty of test prep companies offer materials at or below their prices, and likely put a lot mroe effort into this matertial.

How much effort test prep companies put into their materials is moot. AAMC material is representative of AAMC exams, which means that they could literally package up old test questions (QPacks) and sell them. Or they could design questions with terrible answer explanations (Section Bank) and sell those too - how much effort they put into it doesn't matter. All that matters to the student of the MCAT is that the practice material is representative.

The AAMC is literally a monopoly, playing on all of our desperation to get where we want to go. every ****ty product they coe out with we will all feel compelled to buy, and they know it. their explanations are lacking in throughness because they do nto care about instructing, only evaluating. no passage explanatons whatsevoer, no detailed exaplanations to most wrong answers, almost no discussion of the way of thihking the q meant to evoke. the aamc does nto have to do this, in fact i expect them nto to, but don't say they do nto alos leave some desperate students in ****ty situations.

I think the worse part is not refunding more of the MCAT registration fee and making students wait a month for the results. Which is not reasonable by any standard, even if they have to verify that nobody is cheating and all. GRE gives you preliminary scores immediately and does the verification process after. For most people, their preliminary scores are their actual scores. MCAT can do something similar but they don't.

The exam requires you to think the way the AAMC wants you to. How many med students and physicians on SDN have stated how this is not at all how we will learn and think as physicians. The opinions on what this exam measures or how useful it is varies tremendously. some adcoms lvoe it, some hate it. the biggest thing the aamc loves to tout is how well it correlates to other standardized tests we take as med students, go figure. Does anyone know if GPA or MCAt has a stronger correlation to med school performance (USMLE aside)? would be interesting to see.

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...redictive_validity_of_the_mcat_for_medical.15

People have thought of that question before. There is a correlation but small. Which is what you would expect, since most doctors don't need to know the intricacies of the basic science behind medicine. That's why your clinical years are so often reportedly different from what you learn in the classroom during your first two years and completely different from the pre-med required curriculum. Your objection should not be to the material the MCAT tests on but all basic science that is taught and learned during medical school.

Everything you say about kaplan is not fact, only your opinion. thousands of students do well (some likely better than you or I) using their methods each year. Just because YOU don't work well with their methods does nothing to change this fact. same goes to EK, nextstep, princeton, what have you.

Everything I say on these forums that I have not explicitly backed up by citations is my opinion. I thought that was assumed. But the statements in question here are actually well supported by many previous tutors who have blogged/written about their experiences. It's just a Google search away if you're interested.

As for you analogy with doctors giving bad advice, you again are flawed in your logic. All of medicine agrees smoking and rec drug use is unhealthy, there is no one consensus (aside from apparently your own views) about how best to approach the mcat.

You're taking it out of context and if you go back and read the rest of the thread, you'll see that you just made my point. Another poster compared the ethics of MCAT tutoring to the ethics of physicians recommending something that they themselves do not do. In other words, the other poster was trying to make the argument that even though you might be forced to teach strategies that you do not believe in, doctors often give advice they themselves do not follow and thus there was no ethical conundrum. I made the opposite argument - that this analogy is incorrect. You just made my point. Thank you.

AFAIK, no one at kaplan or any of the test prep companies makes you do anything. If you take the job, and the $, you agree to do things there way. Do yo really think if you actually get into med school and are a physician oen day, you will be making your own decisions based on what you alone think is best for your patients? Or not donig things you disagree with? You are sadly mistaken. Thousands of dcotors every day have to make recommendation they do nto agree with, be it for insurance reasons, economic reasons, or even patient personality. some meds work great for patients, some won't and the doc knows it, but it's the best they can do. Your reliance on the presumption that Kaplan is the "wrong" way implies that there is one "right way" (and you seem to think its whatever you do) and makes your argument a house with no foundation.

I don't care whether doctors recommend treatments that they disagree with. I care about whether tutors hurt their students or not. Teaching, up to now, is my profession and no matter how pesky undergraduates can be, I do want to help them do well. We don't write exams with the purpose of failing as many people as we can, you know. The fact that Kaplan does not give you flexibility to teach what you believe are effective strategies speaks more about test prep companies' own narrow-mindedness than it does my conception of right and wrong.

people in academia tend to view this world though pretty idealogical glasses because they usually see themsevles as above it, which is why many of them seek to avoid the real world and stay in academia, in spite of its terrible structure and awful compensation for anyone not in the tenured elite (seriously, go look up how many U.S. phds will EVER end up with a tenure track job, let alone a position that pays decently enough to justify 5-7 years of schooling).

You realize that I am a PhD student? Do you not think that I already understand the pyramid scheme of academia without your condescension? Thank you so very much for educating me on this topic.

Also, respectfully of course (I wouldn't want to be an ass), could you at least try to correct some of your spelling? While I would love to have a discussion with you, it becomes so difficult when the spelling interferes with the spirit of what you are trying to convey.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

Well this thread definitely blew up in a way I wouldn't have expected.

classroom teaching is def dying.

This is a heavy sentence; it's a pandora's box to say the least. To me. this is a sad reality of college education and the MCAT industry. From a college or company perspective, putting a class on the internet one time is SO MUCH more lucrative than having to run it live in twenty different locations using several teachers. For an MCAT company, presenting a lecture to 1000 to 5000 students at once without having to rent a classroom and then keeping it on demand for another 5000 students is business genius. On line courses are pure profit from a company's perspective. On line materials save so much in terms of printing, storage, and shipping. The fact that "live on line" pulls essentially the same price as real classes is hard to fathom.

From a quality standpoint, I have to say that live instruction is far and away the best method for picking things up. It's better than reading, much better than on line, far and away better than video, or it beats any other method involving 'technology'. Body language and the ability to ask timely questions as they happen are huge in understanding what is being taught. Electronic education hinders both of these. There are plenty of studies conforming that hands on learning is the best both for short term learning and long term retention.

The fact that some medical education has gone this way for the first two years is unnerving, but the third and fourth years are the essentials ones and those can never go to an electronic medium.

There are many interesting points in this thread and I'm interested to see where it goes. Glad to see the passion.

 

[To be MD]

Well this thread definitely blew up in a way I wouldn't have expected.



This is a heavy sentence; it's a pandora's box to say the least. To me. this is a sad reality of college education and the MCAT industry. From a college or company perspective, putting a class on the internet one time is SO MUCH more lucrative than having to run it live in twenty different locations using several teachers. For an MCAT company, presenting a lecture to 1000 to 5000 students at once without having to rent a classroom and then keeping it on demand for another 5000 students is business genius. On line courses are pure profit from a company's perspective. On line materials save so much in terms of printing, storage, and shipping. The fact that "live on line" pulls essentially the same price as real classes is hard to fathom.

From a quality standpoint, I have to say that live instruction is far and away the best method for picking things up. It's better than reading, much better than on line, far and away better than video, or it beats any other method involving 'technology'. Body language and the ability to ask timely questions as they happen are huge in understanding what is being taught. Electronic education hinders both of these. There are plenty of studies conforming that hands on learning is the best both for short term learning and long term retention.

The fact that some medical education has gone this way for the first two years is unnerving, but the third and fourth years are the essentials ones and those can never go to an electronic medium.

There are many interesting points in this thread and I'm interested to see where it goes. Glad to see the passion.

When I get my score back tomorrow, I'll happily buy a ticket to Berkeley and work for you guys . I love TBR!

 

[DesitnationMD]

@DesitnationMD

have you reached your "desitnation" yet?

actually yes, thank you for asking! I will be starting medical school at a top 20 MD program in ~ 10 weeks. Took the mcat last summer. so technically I am 4 years and 10 weeks from my final "desitnation". How about you?

 

[DesitnationMD]

When I get my score back tomorrow, I'll happily buy a ticket to Berkeley and work for you guys . I love TBR!

be careful these guys don't call you out for being unethical!

This is my point. If you like or don't like or use or don't use an idea is irrelevant. It doesn't make you or your actions unethical. Unless you are taking a job with a company whose strategies or methods you think actively hurt or do nothing for students, working for any entitiy, no matter thwe effort or profit derived, is no more or less ethical than any other job.

Many on this thread seem to think their opinion is law, or that its so superior it allows them to judge anything else with no basis in fact. You may think kaplan, TBR etc.. are good bad or indifferent, but there is no consensus on what works best for the mcat.

so to speak from ANY perch of authority on what is or isn't hurting students it just hubris. i bet we could get a dozen horror stories and or success stories from every test prep company, including the aamc on here if we wanted too.

Human learning is too varied, to complex to be satisfied by any 1 method. I think the problem is larger companies, like busy hospitals or physicians, cannot take the time or are often incentivized NOT to customize anything, but to find the path or treatment that works for most, not all.

Same goes with academia or any endeavor involved with teaching people. @aldol16 I am sure you have seen lots of professors teaching in a way you did not like. If you TA for them, are you being unethical? Were you able to slip you own bit of instruction in with the material, or offer tips not necessarily in line with the professor? I didn't take an MCAt prep class but I imagine most mcat teachers will do the same.

Most of them likely do it because they do want to help others with the MCAT. that's why i am here, why you seem to be here. I think the problems becomes when people assume their way is inherently the best way, and they come off as incredibly arrogant and condescending. this is pretty easy to to on the net, when no one can see or know who you really are.

You are a phD student yes? maybe 24-25 (i'm 22). I like to think I have enoguh humitly to realize the difference between intelligence and wisdom. no matter how good I am at soemthing, there are people who have beening donig that same thing for longer than I have been alive.

I would not listen to most phDs about how to prepare for the MCAT. they know the science, but usually jack all about the exam, nor are many of them interested in helping us prepare for it. No one person's experience with their MCAT prep makes them qualified to espouse upon it in any meaningful way, beyond anecdotes. please try to remember that.

@BerkReviewTeach do you guys even do classes or turoing? I never used your materials but i have seen your books. Do your teachers have to follow a certain script when delivering mcat advice?

 

[DesitnationMD]

How much effort test prep companies put into their materials is moot. AAMC material is representative of AAMC exams, which means that they could literally package up old test questions (QPacks) and sell them. Or they could design questions with terrible answer explanations (Section Bank) and sell those too - how much effort they put into it doesn't matter. All that matters to the student of the MCAT is that the practice material is representative.



I think the worse part is not refunding more of the MCAT registration fee and making students wait a month for the results. Which is not reasonable by any standard, even if they have to verify that nobody is cheating and all. GRE gives you preliminary scores immediately and does the verification process after. For most people, their preliminary scores are their actual scores. MCAT can do something similar but they don't.



http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...redictive_validity_of_the_mcat_for_medical.15

People have thought of that question before. There is a correlation but small. Which is what you would expect, since most doctors don't need to know the intricacies of the basic science behind medicine. That's why your clinical years are so often reportedly different from what you learn in the classroom during your first two years and completely different from the pre-med required curriculum. Your objection should not be to the material the MCAT tests on but all basic science that is taught and learned during medical school.



Everything I say on these forums that I have not explicitly backed up by citations is my opinion. I thought that was assumed. But the statements in question here are actually well supported by many previous tutors who have blogged/written about their experiences. It's just a Google search away if you're interested.



You're taking it out of context and if you go back and read the rest of the thread, you'll see that you just made my point. Another poster compared the ethics of MCAT tutoring to the ethics of physicians recommending something that they themselves do not do. In other words, the other poster was trying to make the argument that even though you might be forced to teach strategies that you do not believe in, doctors often give advice they themselves do not follow and thus there was no ethical conundrum. I made the opposite argument - that this analogy is incorrect. You just made my point. Thank you.



I don't care whether doctors recommend treatments that they disagree with. I care about whether tutors hurt their students or not. Teaching, up to now, is my profession and no matter how pesky undergraduates can be, I do want to help them do well. We don't write exams with the purpose of failing as many people as we can, you know. The fact that Kaplan does not give you flexibility to teach what you believe are effective strategies speaks more about test prep companies' own narrow-mindedness than it does my conception of right and wrong.



You realize that I am a PhD student? Do you not think that I already understand the pyramid scheme of academia without your condescension? Thank you so very much for educating me on this topic.

Also, respectfully of course (I wouldn't want to be an ass), could you at least try to correct some of your spelling? While I would love to have a discussion with you, it becomes so difficult when the spelling interferes with the spirit of what you are trying to convey.

the problem is you used the word unethical, which goes well beyond simply implying a judgement of right or wrong.

I am not gonig to devle into a covnersation with any acaademic as to how science should be taught, its byond my pay grade and beyond my interest. I am confident many would feel the way you do about basic sceince and just as many would excoriate you for being ignorant and wrong. this kind of discussion should be focused on the exam. and i have learned and seen all over sdn and medical schools that the potential "best" ways to teach science varies with the eventual use of that sceince. i postulate a kid gonig into a phd in biology (god help them) would want need to get a whole difference level of understanding of the material than a kid desitend for medical school like me. Does it mean I have a "less detailed" understanding of the science than the phd kid? maybe btu what do I care. I want to now enough to do my job the best way possible and no more/no less.

In europe they have combined university/md programs, so it would be cool to see if there are different tracks for life science students dpeneding on their ultimate post-grad desitnation (@theonlytycrane see what I did there?). as a physics major i took differnce physics and math classes than the pre-meds, but we all took the same bio, orgo, biochem classes, and i would bet most of them will nto be gonig to medical school, ever.

What would you all say to colleges creating specific pre-med curriculum towards physicianhood? I imagine many phDs would balk at it, citing the level of compexity of their studies, etc... I have sat in on a few medical school lectures as an undergrad and there is a palpable difference in the method, delviery and reception by students depdning on who is doing the teaching (phd, md, both). maybe it is a bit of pride on all sides.

@aldol16 would you ever consdier building an MCAT bootcamp or some such club @ your instittuton? Do you think many professors would go for it, or even be capable of it? If academics truly beleive test prep companies are unethical, this would be a good way I think to address sme of that, though ALL universities are for profit businsess, yet somehow they escape much of the vitriol a kaplan or prince review get. and the aamc being the test maker themsevles does not preclude them from dongi things that harm or exploit desperate kids looking to go to med school. If we are gonig to throw shade, lets throw it a bit more evenly, and base it more on objective assesment rather than ego-fueled opinions. At the very least make sure the tones used reflect all of our collective lack of real expertise with the mcat.

 

[To be MD]

be careful these guys don't call you out for being unethical!

This is my point. If you like or don't like or use or don't use an idea is irrelevant. It doesn't make you or your actions unethical. Unless you are taking a job with a company whose strategies or methods you think actively hurt or do nothing for students, working for any entitiy, no matter thwe effort or profit derived, is no more or less ethical than any other job.

Many on this thread seem to think their opinion is law, or that its so superior it allows them to judge anything else with no basis in fact. You may think kaplan, TBR etc.. are good bad or indifferent, but there is no consensus on what works best for the mcat.

so to speak from ANY perch of authority on what is or isn't hurting students it just hubris. i bet we could get a dozen horror stories and or success stories from every test prep company, including the aamc on here if we wanted too.

Human learning is too varied, to complex to be satisfied by any 1 method. I think the problem is larger companies, like busy hospitals or physicians, cannot take the time or are often incentivized NOT to customize anything, but to find the path or treatment that works for most, not all.

Same goes with academia or any endeavor involved with teaching people. @aldol16 I am sure you have seen lots of professors teaching in a way you did not like. If you TA for them, are you being unethical? Were you able to slip you own bit of instruction in with the material, or offer tips not necessarily in line with the professor? I didn't take an MCAt prep class but I imagine most mcat teachers will do the same.

Most of them likely do it because they do want to help others with the MCAT. that's why i am here, why you seem to be here. I think the problems becomes when people assume their way is inherently the best way, and they come off as incredibly arrogant and condescending. this is pretty easy to to on the net, when no one can see or know who you really are.

You are a phD student yes? maybe 24-25 (i'm 22). I like to think I have enoguh humitly to realize the difference between intelligence and wisdom. no matter how good I am at soemthing, there are people who have beening donig that same thing for longer than I have been alive.

I would not listen to most phDs about how to prepare for the MCAT. they know the science, but usually jack all about the exam, nor are many of them interested in helping us prepare for it. No one person's experience with their MCAT prep makes them qualified to espouse upon it in any meaningful way, beyond anecdotes. please try to remember that.

@BerkReviewTeach do you guys even do classes or turoing? I never used your materials but i have seen your books. Do your teachers have to follow a certain script when delivering mcat advice?

the problem is you used the word unethical, which goes well beyond simply implying a judgement of right or wrong.

I am not gonig to devle into a covnersation with any acaademic as to how science should be taught, its byond my pay grade and beyond my interest. I am confident many would feel the way you do about basic sceince and just as many would excoriate you for being ignorant and wrong. this kind of discussion should be focused on the exam. and i have learned and seen all over sdn and medical schools that the potential "best" ways to teach science varies with the eventual use of that sceince. i postulate a kid gonig into a phd in biology (god help them) would want need to get a whole difference level of understanding of the material than a kid desitend for medical school like me. Does it mean I have a "less detailed" understanding of the science than the phd kid? maybe btu what do I care. I want to now enough to do my job the best way possible and no more/no less.

In europe they have combined university/md programs, so it would be cool to see if there are different tracks for life science students dpeneding on their ultimate post-grad desitnation (@theonlytycrane see what I did there?). as a physics major i took differnce physics and math classes than the pre-meds, but we all took the same bio, orgo, biochem classes, and i would bet most of them will nto be gonig to medical school, ever.

What would you all say to colleges creating specific pre-med curriculum towards physicianhood? I imagine many phDs would balk at it, citing the level of compexity of their studies, etc... I have sat in on a few medical school lectures as an undergrad and there is a palpable difference in the method, delviery and reception by students depdning on who is doing the teaching (phd, md, both). maybe it is a bit of pride on all sides.

@aldol16 would you ever consdier building an MCAT bootcamp or some such club @ your instittuton? Do you think many professors would go for it, or even be capable of it? If academics truly beleive test prep companies are unethical, this would be a good way I think to address sme of that, though ALL universities are for profit businsess, yet somehow they escape much of the vitriol a kaplan or prince review get. and the aamc being the test maker themsevles does not preclude them from dongi things that harm or exploit desperate kids looking to go to med school. If we are gonig to throw shade, lets throw it a bit more evenly, and base it more on objective assesment rather than ego-fueled opinions. At the very least make sure the tones used reflect all of our collective lack of real expertise with the mcat.

Slow down there, tiger.

 

[baratheonfire]

so can anyone please tell me how to actually become a tutor

I got a 520 on scored FL and 91% on sample FL, and will get my real score back tomorrow

Edit: Real Score was 520 (130,130,130,130)

 

[aldol16]

Slow down there, tiger.

I stopped reading his/her posts until he/she learns to actually spell. I saw that you were interested in TBR tutoring. I think if you reached out to some of them on here after getting your score, you'd have a good shot if you scored high enough. Someone from TBR reached out to me awhile ago asking if I was interested in a position but due to my opinions outlined above and graduate contract, I wasn't interested.

 

[To be MD]

so can anyone please tell me how to actually become a tutor

I got a 520 on scored FL and 91% on sample FL, and will get my real score back tomorrow

The two things you need to be a good tutor are: (1) teaching skills and (2) content mastery. If you have the former without the later (or vice versa), you will be a lousy tutor 🙂. So, if you have the score, get some teaching experience... start volunteering or do it privately on the cheap.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

When I get my score back tomorrow, I'll happily buy a ticket to Berkeley and work for you guys . I love TBR!

I greatly appreciate the kind sentiment. There just aren't that many jobs with us, because we only do MCAT and we try to keep it relatively small. PM me though if you are remotely serious.

@BerkReviewTeach do you guys even do classes or turoing [sic]? I never used your materials but i have seen your books. Do your teachers have to follow a certain script when delivering mcat advice?

We do run classes, but in a very limited area. We are a company committed to staying small (as in we cap our classes and run a limited number of sessions). I fear what may come from saying this in a thread where people are so fired up, but we have no desire to be a big company and make huge bank. We do things from a teacher-first mentality (which leads to people complaining about our archaic business model and crappy website, but raving about our teaching and the fact we genuinely care about our students). I love my students and feel their joys and pain as they go through the process. This is why I didn't chime in about the requirements to be hired at BR. While an MCAT score seems to be a good criteria, 90% scores are a dime a dozen. People who genuinely care, know how to teach, and understand the emotional roller coaster students go through get chosen.

As for a teaching script, I get an outline for any lectures I want to do (and I get to pick the subjects I want to teach), but it's up to me to cover what I want. There are sample passages and questions to use in class, but BR teachers freelance the rest. But realize, this is possible because over half our classes are taught by teachers who have been with us at least ten years. The thing we will NEVER, EVER do is make teachers use our company name repeatedly during lecture. While we have several techniques and approaches that are uniquely ours, teachers are not required to teach them and not required to say they are BR methods.

Someone from TBR reached out to me awhile ago asking if I was interested in a position but due to my opinions outlined above and graduate contract, I wasn't interested.

Your answer explanations in the Q&A section are superb, so you would be an excellent tutor. I believe the fact that you are no where near we teach was also a stickling point.

 

[aldol16]

Your answer explanations in the Q&A section are superb, so you would be an excellent tutor. I believe the fact that you are no where near we teach was also a stickling point.

You wouldn't be able to pay me enough to live in Cali 😉

 

[Gurby]

From a quality standpoint, I have to say that live instruction is far and away the best method for picking things up. It's better than reading, much better than on line, far and away better than video, or it beats any other method involving 'technology'. Body language and the ability to ask timely questions as they happen are huge in understanding what is being taught. Electronic education hinders both of these.

Everyone is different, but I personally find live lectures to be a horrific waste of time. Either I pre-study and already know everything, or I go in unprepared and quickly end up getting lost/overwhelmed. I also have trouble focusing in person - I find that I waste a lot of mental energy paying attention constantly. Some material I already understand and don't need to be reiterated to me, and some things I don't understand and need more time to process than is given. With a recorded lecture I can skip through at 2x speed if I understand what is going on, or pause/rewind/rewatch if I need another pass at something. Having the ability to adjust pace of the lecture makes it much easier for me to maintain focus.

You can see body language in a recorded lecture. If you have a question about something, you can pause the lecture and go research whatever it is you were confused about, take as much time as you need to understand it, and then come back later without interrupting anyone else's classroom experience.

I would much rather learn the material at home on my own, and then spend 2 hours with a tutor each week, or have a "help room" where you can work through practice problems and have a tutor/teacher available to help with questions as they arise.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

Everyone is different, but I personally find live lectures to be a horrific waste of time. Either I pre-study and already know everything, or I go in unprepared and quickly end up getting lost/overwhelmed. I also have trouble focusing in person - I find that I waste a lot of mental energy paying attention constantly. Some material I already understand and don't need to be reiterated to me, and some things I don't understand and need more time to process than is given. With a recorded lecture I can skip through at 2x speed if I understand what is going on, or pause/rewind/rewatch if I need another pass at something. Having the ability to adjust pace of the lecture makes it much easier for me to maintain focus.

You can see body language in a recorded lecture. If you have a question about something, you can pause the lecture and go research whatever it is you were confused about, take as much time as you need to understand it, and then come back later without interrupting anyone else's classroom experience.

I would much rather learn the material at home on my own, and then spend 2 hours with a tutor each week, or have a "help room" where you can work through practice problems and have a tutor/teacher available to help with questions as they arise.

You are right that everyone is different and my opinion is from my personal experiences, as yours is from your personal experiences. I was never the best student in terms of attending lectures, but whenever I had an engaging teacher I never missed a class and staying focused was easy. A live lecture with an uninspiring teacher who is talking about content you could read yourself would lead me to the opinion you describe. If the choice was between that type of lecture and an electronic version of that, then you are absolutely right about having the fast forward and pause options as being essential tools.

But the lectures I'm talking about are not ones where it's two hours of regurgitated facts and formulas. A good MCAT lecture is about how to think your way through questions, not about how to memorize facts and content. A good MCAT lecture starts with a question and goes through the background information needed to understand the question, the skills needed to sift through the answer choices, and the logic behind the reasoning of both the test writer and test taker. That is something that is much easier to do as a live teacher than to do on video. If done right, students get the content in an engaging and practical way, not as a list.

And as for body language, we are on opposite ends of this spectrum. You are talking about the body language of a teacher as viewed by students (which I agree is the same on video or live). I'm talking about body language of students and how as a teacher you can use that instantaneous feedback to guide your lecture. As a teacher, when a student is sitting forward and making eye contact you know things are going well. You know they are engaged, so you can challenge them with different questions and examples. If a student starts to slump or looked puzzled, then I know to stop and change tact in terms of an explanation. It allows me the feedback I need to offer up multiple pathways to covering a topic or getting to an answer. A great example is fluid flow through a pipe. Some people get it conceptually from the experience of using a straw or from blood flow examples they learned in cardio physiology. Not everyone though. So that is where the equation and pictures of ideal flow really help. Recognizing who works well with the first method (analogies to real life or previously learned examples) versus who works well with the second method (pictures and equations) can only be done through recognizing body language. It is one of the most important things you do as a teacher.

And in terms of lectures versus other means (such as books and video), I think you need both. There is absolutely no way I could ever fit every single piece of information associated with a concept into a single lecture, so I sincerely hope my students are leaving lecture inspired to fill in the gaps (which they'll address with reading and homework problems) and that they are excited when they can apply a trick from class on a question that otherwise would have been harder. That trick takes on an even bigger meaning for them.

From my perspective, a live lecture with a seasoned teacher who knows their material well and has multiple ways to explain a concept or answer question will beat a video that is made by a teacher who is getting no visual feedback from his or her audience. But your post has been very thought-provoking. Maybe a video for the mundane topics that everyone knows (PV=nRT, organelles, and so on) with lectures on the more engaging topics (electromagnetism, electrochemistry, PCR, and so on) would be a great compromise.

I think the differences in our opinions come from our perspective in the classroom; the perspective is different from the teacher's end and student's end. I really appreciate your replies, because to be a better teacher, I need to consider the feedback and insights you are offering from the student's perspective (in addition to the feedback I get from my actual students). Thank you for such a candid and well articulated post.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

You are right that everyone is different and my opinion is from my personal experiences, as yours is from your personal experiences. I was never the best student in terms of attending lectures, but whenever I had an engaging teacher I never missed a class and staying focused was easy. A live lecture with an uninspiring teacher who is talking about content you could read yourself would lead me to the opinion you describe. If the choice was between that type of lecture and an electronic version of that, then you are absolutely right about having the fast forward and pause options as being essential tools.

But the lectures I'm talking about are not ones where it's two hours of regurgitated facts and formulas. A good MCAT lecture is about how to think your way through questions, not about how to memorize facts and content. A good MCAT lecture starts with a question and goes through the background information needed to understand the question, the skills needed to sift through the answer choices, and the logic behind the reasoning of both the test writer and test taker. That is something that is much easier to do as a live teacher than to do on video. If done right, students get the content in an engaging and practical way, not as a list.

And as for body language, we are on opposite ends of this spectrum. You are talking about the body language of a teacher as viewed by students (which I agree is the same on video or live). I'm talking about body language of students and how as a teacher you can use that instantaneous feedback to guide your lecture. As a teacher, when a student is sitting forward and making eye contact you know things are going well. You know they are engaged, so you can challenge them with different questions and examples. If a student starts to slump or looked puzzled, then I know to stop and change tact in terms of an explanation. It allows me the feedback I need to offer up multiple pathways to covering a topic or getting to an answer. A great example is fluid flow through a pipe. Some people get it conceptually from the experience of using a straw or from blood flow examples they learned in cardio physiology. Not everyone though. So that is where the equation and pictures of ideal flow really help. Recognizing who works well with the first method (analogies to real life or previously learned examples) versus who works well with the second method (pictures and equations) can only be done through recognizing body language. It is one of the most important things you do as a teacher.

And in terms of lectures versus other means (such as books and video), I think you need both. There is absolutely no way I could ever fit every single piece of information associated with a concept into a single lecture, so I sincerely hope my students are leaving lecture inspired to fill in the gaps (which they'll address with reading and homework problems) and that they are excited when they can apply a trick from class on a question that otherwise would have been harder. That trick takes on an even bigger meaning for them.


From my perspective, a live lecture with a seasoned teacher who knows their material well and has multiple ways to explain a concept or answer question will beat a video that is made by a teacher who is getting no visual feedback from his or her audience. But your post has been very thought-provoking. Maybe a video for the mundane topics that everyone knows (PV=nRT, organelles, and so on) with lectures on the more engaging topics (electromagnetism, electrochemistry, PCR, and so on) would be a great compromise.

I think the differences in our opinions come from our perspective in the classroom; the perspective is different from the teacher's end and student's end. I really appreciate your replies, because to be a better teacher, I need to consider the feedback and insights you are offering from the student's perspective (in addition to the feedback I get from my actual students). Thank you for such a candid and well articulated post.

Well said! I wish I could take your class😛

 

[wanderingorion]

Private tutoring tends to be more lucrative (and flexible) than working for a major test prep company.

Do you know the best places to advertise MCAT tutoring specifically? Like websites, etc.

 

[aRealLurkerThatOne]

Do you know the best places to advertise MCAT tutoring specifically? Like websites, etc.

I used to use craigslist, but it was hit or miss. Word of mouth is best but it requires a large premed population. I was approached by several MCAT companies when I posted ads on Craigslist. After ~ 6 months on my own I chose one and it has worked out pretty well. I won't say which one but they post on here and pay me well beyond (I started at $30/hour) what the other companies offered.

First they made me verify my MCAT (they required 95th I scored 98th) score and next they required at least 2 years of previous tutoring or teaching experience. This was a huge diff from the larger companies that focus on classroom teaching. All those companies asked was my score (usually 90th). When I was initially hired, I had ~ 4 weeks of training with one of their tutor trainers. It was mostly to gauge my personality, my teaching style, and confirm I can actually communicate effectively. I had assignments to prepare in any way I chose, and had to practice with the online platform I use to tutor.

I meet most students online and I was given software I use to exchange files, audio/video, and even a shared whiteboard with my students. As long as the student has a decent connection, it's like tutoring back in the chemistry lab for freshman. I can read the body language of my student because working video is a requirement to work with me. It helps to be able to see their face when I quiz them or ask them about their homework assignments.

I can meet my students in person but since the tutor-tutee matching system is nationwide, I am matched only to kids who fit my tutoring style, background, and areas of expertise so I have yet to meet anyone in person (~ 15 students since Jan 2016). I am allowed to use my own materials or materials the student chooses, as well as practice tests. There is no script or specific coursework to follow as I customize it for every student. I do have access to a study schedule template, books, tests and online resources should I or the student choose to use them. I have used Exam Krackers, Princeton Review, Next Step, you name it. I usually have them take the Next Step diagnostic (free and pretty good) and then we work on a study schedule after discussing their study habits, learning style, MCAT score goal, and some other details. If I feel uncomfortable or like the student is not 100% on it during this initial consultation, they or I can ask to be reassigned. To date it has only happened once when a student was looking to get 40 hours of tutoring over 1 month and hoping to go up 8 points (NOT realistic at all) so I turned them down. The company was fine with it because its better to have happy, successful students than $.

I can't say size dictates educational philosophy but I like the lean and efficient approach I take. I make good $ but my tutoring rates are like half of the big companies, and those companies were going to may me even less to tutor!

@wanderingorion @To be MD start with a company that either focuses on tutoring, or places at least some importance on it. You'll get better pay and a better experience. A few of my friends have tutored for the huge companies and they tend to be assigned students who have customer service issues, since classes are where the real $ is at.

PM me if you want to know more!