EMT-B with CNA?

[LaLaLauren]

Hello everyone!
I'm a junior right now, and next year I have the opportunity to graduate high school as a CNA and EMT-B. I can't seem to find anyone who has such certification, and I was wondering if anyone has happened upon any sort of nurse-EMT hybrid (I guess that's what you could call them), whether CNA or RN or paramedic or whatever combination. Do you see any benefits or problems with doing this, or have any feedback at all?

If not, I'd love to hear any feedback, related to this CNA/EMT-B thing or not.
Advice, warnings, and opinions are all much appreciated Tell me what I should know about the field.


FYI: My ultimate goal is to get my Ph.D in nursing, but I want to work entirely in trauma and prehospital. I may get my paramedic eventually too.

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[deleted6669]

if you want to do prehospital and trauma your best route would be to go to paramedic school next. after a few yrs as a paramedic go to pa school then do a trauma/critical care residency for a yr. there are a lot more pa's working in emergency medicine, critical care and trauma than there are np's. alternatively if you really want to get the np go to paramedic school then a 1 yr paramedic to rn bridge then a 2 yr dual pa/np program( there are 2- uc davis and stanford) then the 1 yr pa critical care residency.
for more info on pa residencies see www.appap.org
note : there are several other programs in trauma/critical care that are fairly new and not on the site yet. ohsu in oregon has 1 as does st. lukes in pennsylvania.
pm me if you want more info about any of this.

 

[TerraMedicX]

The vast majority of flight programs I have had experience with require all of their flight nurses to be both RN and Paramedics. The would probably be the best route to shoot for if your interest is in trauma services because many hospitals with flight programs based out of them have the flight teams help augment the ED staff when they have serious cases. Plus a large number of the serious traumas get flown depending on geographical situations. If you need some advice on this route I'm sure there are some people here who can help, I also have a good friend who is an EMT and just finished his RN on this path.

Aside from that, not a lot of a reason to do both. The truth is that the two are very much NOT interchangeable! The prehospital environment is drastically different from that in-hospital, and the training of the two groups is accordingly different. I suppose CNA training might be helpful if you wanted to work as an EMT in a clinical setting such as an ED or urgent care clinic. Also...be ready to be the butt end of a lot of jokes...us paramedics generally have a low opinion of CNAs from our experience with nursing homes...nothing personal, its just hard to not stereotype when it gets reenforced every day!

Nate.

 

[deleted6669]

I have a buddy who is on a lifeflight team who is a paramedic, nurse, and resp. therapist-talk about a critical care combo!

 

[viostorm]

I'm not exactly sure your question, but I think it is that you want to know if CNA/EMT is useful?

The combination certification is likely no more useful then each certification on its own.

Contrary to previous posts, I'd discourage you from going and being a paramedic next, I'd suggest you get your RN.

Much better pay and more career opportunities for the future.

Paramedic is a dead end job right now in most places, there isn't much for you to do other then be on the ambulance, they are blue collar workers with little leverage against their employer for negotation on salary et cetera because they are easily replacable.

If you really want to manage trauma the best thing is probably to be a physician. Most of the important interventions in trauma are done by the physician, for Paramedics and Flight Crews trauma is mostly focused on get them to a surgeon.

 

[deleted6669]

I'm not exactly sure your question, but I think it is that you want to know if CNA/EMT is useful?

The combination certification is likely no more useful then each certification on its own.

Contrary to previous posts, I'd discourage you from going and being a paramedic next, I'd suggest you get your RN.

Much better pay and more career opportunities for the future.

Paramedic is a dead end job right now in most places, there isn't much for you to do other then be on the ambulance, they are blue collar workers with little leverage against their employer for negotation on salary et cetera because they are easily replacable.

they do however hold the vast majority of ems prehospital jobs and once you are an emt-p there are a # of part time 1 yr emt-p to rn programs. try getting on an ambulance 911 squad as an rn only-there are VERY FEW jobs for prehospital nurses other than on transport only units.

 

[viostorm]

they do however hold the vast majority of ems prehospital jobs and once you are an emt-p there are a # of part time 1 yr emt-p to rn programs. try getting on an ambulance 911 squad as an rn only-there are VERY FEW jobs for prehospital nurses other than on transport only units.

In my experience, many more paramedics regret their career choice and wish they where nurses then nurses regret their career choice and want to be paramedics.

 

[deleted6669]

In my experience, many more paramedics regret their career choice and wish they where nurses then nurses regret their career choice and want to be paramedics.

my point was that if you want to work prehospital( as the OP does) it's hard to do that as an rn unless you get on a helicopter and there just are not that many rn slots on lifeflight teams and most of them require dual rn/emt-p anyway.I don't disagree that medics are treated like crap but it is the best pathway to later positions in emergency medicine/trauma/ critical care if you want to go on to become a pa/np/md/do.

 

[MedicFL]

If you want to be an MD/DO I wouldnt waste your time you have EMT get a Er tech job and go to school. If you have to work then work but I can tell you that being a medic or emt wont fast track you to a ER MD/DO position if anything it just slows you down...I would say being an emt would help you be a PA but if you want to be a PA get your req classes out of the way work as an emt and then go on to PA school...It all depends on what you want to do, I can tell you that the job out looks for paramedic are very good and there are lots of open jobs here in FL

 

[Jamers]

Hello everyone!
I'm a junior right now, and next year I have the opportunity to graduate high school as a CNA and EMT-B. I can't seem to find anyone who has such certification, and I was wondering if anyone has happened upon any sort of nurse-EMT hybrid (I guess that's what you could call them), whether CNA or RN or paramedic or whatever combination. Do you see any benefits or problems with doing this, or have any feedback at all?

If not, I'd love to hear any feedback, related to this CNA/EMT-B thing or not.
Advice, warnings, and opinions are all much appreciated Tell me what I should know about the field.


FYI: My ultimate goal is to get my Ph.D in nursing, but I want to work entirely in trauma and prehospital. I may get my paramedic eventually too.

I have both a certification in EMT-B and CNA. I never found a "hybrid" as you say but each of the experiences in themselves has been rewarding. As a CNA, if you want to learn the most about direct care of patients, quality of life and all that fun stuff, work in a nursing home; I often had the direct care of 20 residents in a given night. Since it doesn't take long for many people to get burned out, you can use the EMT-B as something to change the pace up. This is what I did at least. CNA and EMT work are both very stressful. I found the CNA side to be very limiting and I was often governed by rules that I neither understood or agreed with. For example, in my home state of Pennsylvania, the home was allowed to count LPNs and RNs as members of the CNA staff. At any rate, the home I worked in would use this to their advantage by only having 5-6 AIDEs on for a given shift but count the LPNs and RNs as the extra staff to make up the minimal required by law. Of course this meant that we were understaffed and the care of the residents suffered. I lasted three years a CNA in a nursing home but I do know of people who were celebrating 20 years there; more power to them. You don't learn much about emergent care or even treatments as a CNA so I found having the EMT training as an added plus. But, this is going on too long so I will end it.

 

[Jamers]

If you want to be an MD/DO I wouldnt waste your time you have EMT get a Er tech job and go to school. If you have to work then work but I can tell you that being a medic or emt wont fast track you to a ER MD/DO position if anything it just slows you down...I would say being an emt would help you be a PA but if you want to be a PA get your req classes out of the way work as an emt and then go on to PA school...It all depends on what you want to do, I can tell you that the job out looks for paramedic are very good and there are lots of open jobs here in FL

How does a few hundred hour course that you can take at any point slow you down? You can obtain your EMT certification by taking a night class for a single semester. If anything it gives you experience that a lot of other applicants don't have.

 

[MedicFL]

If you read the post you would see that they already have there EMT they were talking about getting there Paramedic which is a full year and over 1300 clinical hours which is done by going to school fulltime, so in that sense I would say it would slow you down in you other college classes. And I am talking from experience I was in the same boat...

 

[LaLaLauren]

Thank you everyone for such great responses! The information was very helpful, and I've been presented with lots of answers and new considerations.

I have considered becoming a PA, but being a very hands on, clinical/procedural type of person rather than the medical, I've been encouraged to go to nursing route rather than physician. Although I'm competent in biochemistry and the like, I'm much more comfortable with stuff like physiology. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this makes me think that the nursing route would be better. From what I've heard PA's basically decide what is wrong and what should be done, while a nurse would do more... doing.

Also, I checked out the Flight for Life service I would most likely end up with, and they have more RN/EMTs than anything. I am in Colorado, and I'm staying here, so if I was on a helicopter I'm sure I'd be pretty busy. Considering the mountains and the fact that there are several level one centers in the Denver area, but plenty of open space and rural towns all over, I would think that Flight for Life out here transports often.

There's no way I could work in a nursing home. After I graduate I'll probably work at CU Hospital in the ER, because that's where I'm planning on getting my degree and they have a wonderful BSN program that will pay for much of my tuition, and pay me while I'm in class as if I was working.

I should have been more specific about the CNA thing... I wouldn't be taking a class ONLY to get my CNA, it seems from what I've been told here that this certification would probably serve more as a bonus for hireability and getting into school. The class seems to be about way more than becoming a CNA, but most students take the state exam and pass for certification. During the second semester there is an internship which seems like one of the most beneficial aspects. Heres a program description:

"HEALTH SCIENCES TECHNOLOGY I (11th, 12th grades)
The class is for students interested in learning the foundation skills required to become an effective entry-level health care professional. Students will focus on ethics, communication, asepsis, anatomy and pathophysiology, medical terminology, CPR, response to emergencies, problem solving skills and professional leadership.
During the second semester students will spend nine hours/week in nurse assistant or another health profession. Some of these are: dental, emergency, medical assisting, nursing, physical therapy and veterinary."

Anyways, thank you all so much for all the information and for presenting many facets of this that I hadn't considered. I'm going to have to investigate the paramedic to RN bridge thing, I've never heard of that and that would be awesome.​

 

[TerraMedicX]

The last I heard, AirLife Denver (they have choppers out of Sweedish and Aurora North) will only hire RNs and prefer RN/Paramedics. AirLife Greeley hires both Paramedics and RNs, but the paramedics are required to have three years of full-time experience with an ALS ground ambulance. Flight for Life (birds out of St. Anthony's Central and North) hires both Paramedics and RNs and once again prefers RN/Paramedics.

My friend I mentioned earlier just began his nursing internship in the ER at Denver Health (probably THE level 1 trauma center in Denver! No frills, but the get the job done quickly and well!), if you'd like his contact info PM me.

From my understanding, having your CNA will not help you getting into the nursing program at UCHSC. You're better off attending any undergraduate college in CO and obtaining all of your prerequisite classes and doing well in them. This usually means two years of classes, then you would apply to the BSN program. The programs at Regis and Front Range are also very good programs, and have similar, but slightly different requirements. If you intend to do research or admin type things a BSN is probably appropriate, but if all you're interested in is clinical work a simple RN is generally all you need.

As for EMT and paramedic training (since you're a junior in HS I know you haven't completed your EMT yet). There are a number of programs arround the state of varying quality. If you want specific advice on this as well, PM me.

Nate.

 

[deleted6669]

"I have considered becoming a PA, but being a very hands on, clinical/procedural type of person rather than the medical, I've been encouraged to go to nursing route rather than physician. Although I'm competent in biochemistry and the like, I'm much more comfortable with stuff like physiology. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this makes me think that the nursing route would be better. From what I've heard PA's basically decide what is wrong and what should be done, while a nurse would do more... doing. "

I'm guessing your source was a nurse.....
pa's do more procedures and clinical decision making than nurses. md/pa/np folks are clinicians and make decisions and do procedures. nurses in a hospital setting have very little independent role and follow orders written by clinicians.

 

[viostorm]

Basically medicine is a hierarchy where the level of schooling equates to what you will be "doing". Everything has hands on and it depends on what you want to be doing. Within each level there are different amounts of "hands on" but it is up to you.


1. Physician/Surgeon - surgery, heart catherization, prescribe meds, intubation, any procedure you are trained for or you have heard about on TV.

2. PA/NP - prescribe meds, minor procedures (suturing)

2. CRNA "nurse anethestist" - manage patients during surgery.

3. Respiratory Therapist - manage ventilator settings, suctioning

3. Nurses - bathing, giving ordered meds, prepare patient to be seen by physician

3. Paramedics - intubation, IV's, giving meds on standing orders. (nurses would argue they are higher then paramedics)

4. CNA - assist with nurse duties

4. Radiology Tech - take x-rays, run scanners

4. EMT's - assist paramedics, do basic life support.

4. Surgery Tech - hold limbs for surgeon, hand items to surgeon.

What I was trying to show you with the above it that everyone does "hands on" things, it is just what you can do and how much autonomy you have to make decisions on your own.

If you want the most autonomy and most "hands on" capability, the physician route provides this. If looking for a career in medicine I would look at this list and see what type of things you would like doing.

 

[MedicFL]

You left out a few things...I know several PA's that scrub in and do full procedures, RT's can drop tubes as can CRNA's....all depends on where you work. There is a PA on the Trauma team here he will come down and do the int consult if the Dr is busy it all depends on where you work and your level of trust. RN's here are given a good deal of freedom being that it is a teaching hospital the new residents many times go to the nurses to see what they wawnt to do...But I do agree look into all you choices before you make one...

 

[deleted6669]

You left out a few things...I know several PA's that scrub in and do full procedures, RT's can drop tubes as can CRNA's....all depends on where you work. There is a PA on the Trauma team here he will come down and do the int consult if the Dr is busy it all depends on where you work and your level of trust. RN's here are given a good deal of freedom being that it is a teaching hospital the new residents many times go to the nurses to see what they wawnt to do...But I do agree look into all you choices before you make one...

AGREE-
The physician will be at the top of any tree of hierarchy but that doesn't mean that others don't overlap a lot with their scope of practice. for example I work solo in a 28k pt/yr emergency dept several times/month. if there is a code, I run it. I do the intubations, ditto cardioversion, etc
at my primary job I work at a busy trauma center and also work in the obs unit doing treadmills, trauma obs, etc